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    324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Managed to get a run on a very long private road, the car was still pulling very hard and i was amazed at how fast the car was accelerating even at high speeds. I am pretty sure that there is a speed limiter on our cars as when i hit 324 i felt a cut in power. It wasnt the rev limiter as a had a few more rpms left. Keep in mind my car is a tip with an ecu mod.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    That is not correct. At those speeds the speedometer shows probably around 10-15 km/h error depending on several factors.
    Anyway that`s fast Keep it safe

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Not necessarily, i have heard from a lot of people that porsche speedos are pretty accurate even at high speeds. However for next time ill have to do a gps run to verify that.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Wow thats quite fast. Well congratulations for achieveing 14 km/h faster than the offical speed (310 km/h).

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    In Europe there is a law about the accuracy of speedos. You have always some tolerance due to measure errors. Including this measure errors it is not allowed to show less then the actual speed. That is the reason why all speedos show us more then real. And Porsche isn't doing anything else. RC measured his Turbo with GPS and found out that it was exactly the 310 km/h, on his speedo it was 325 or even more km/h. The limitation should be the tranny as he has found out.

    AM

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    turboAD said:
    Managed to get a run on a very long private road, the car was still pulling very hard and i was amazed at how fast the car was accelerating even at high speeds. I am pretty sure that there is a speed limiter on our cars as when i hit 324 i felt a cut in power. It wasnt the rev limiter as a had a few more rpms left. Keep in mind my car is a tip with an ecu mod.



    Nice run, what kind of ecu tune do you have and does it include an increased redline? I always thought the TT is redline limited and not speed limited, very interesting

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    In Europe there is a law about the accuracy of speedos. You have always some tolerance due to measure errors. Including this measure errors it is not allowed to show less then the actual speed. That is the reason why all speedos show us more then real. And Porsche isn't doing anything else. RC measured his Turbo with GPS and found out that it was exactly the 310 km/h, on his speedo it was 325 or even more km/h. The limitation should be the tranny as he has found out.

    AM



    I second that for the reason you explain numbasic. A speedo never show the real ground speed you need to use GPS measure or radar...So 324 is very fast but not the true speed even though porsche speedo may be a bit more accurate.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    That is exactly what im trying to find out, whether our cars are fitted with an electronic speed limiter or not. I may be hitting the rev limiter however the pic shows that im hitting around 6500 rpms at max speed.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    turboAD said:
    That is exactly what im trying to find out, whether our cars are fitted with an electronic speed limiter or not. I may be hitting the rev limiter however the pic shows that im hitting around 6500 rpms at max speed.




    I got the answer today from my tuner. he has been tuning porsche turbo engines for over 20 years. He said the 997TT has over 12 limiters including rev limiters for each gear and neutral and reverse PLUS a speed limiter.
    The fact that you are hitting a limiter before redline means that your ecu tune did not include a bump of the speed limiter, even if you have a bump of the rev limiter.
    The program I have is supposed to have a bumped rev PLUS speed limiter and the car's top speed would be limited either by drag or redline.
    Frankly, a speed limiter on a TT is a cheap shot from porsche even if it was close to the rev limit.
    Glad I got rid of it.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    turboAD said:
    That is exactly what im trying to find out, whether our cars are fitted with an electronic speed limiter or not. I may be hitting the rev limiter however the pic shows that im hitting around 6500 rpms at max speed.




    I got the answer today from my tuner who has been tuning porsche turbo engines for over 20 years. He said the 997TT has over 12 limiters including rev limiters for each gear and neutral and reverse PLUS a speed limiter (and some other stage 2 limiters).
    The fact that you are hitting a limiter before redline means that your ecu tune did not include an extension of the speed limiter, even if you have an extended rev limiter.
    The program I have has a bumped rev limiter, PLUS a bumped speed limiter, this way the car's top speed would be limited either by drag or redline.
    Frankly, a speed limiter on a TT is a cheap shot from porsche even if it was close to the rev limit.
    Glad I got rid of it.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Double post..

    12 limiters!!! It's going to be like trying to crack through the Pentagon getting through to all those limiters!

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    atomic80 said:
    Double post..

    12 limiters!!! It's going to be like trying to crack through the Pentagon getting through to all those limiters!



    sorry about the double post, don't know how that happened. how do I delete one of them? edit doesn't work anymore

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    aah986 said:
    Quote:
    atomic80 said:
    Double post..

    12 limiters!!! It's going to be like trying to crack through the Pentagon getting through to all those limiters!



    sorry about the double post, don't know how that happened. how do I delete one of them? edit doesn't work anymore



    One of the mods will do it for you . So the Turbo is limited electronically. I remember Christian saying something similar some time ago, supposedly related to the MPSC tyres, available through Tequipment. Somebody should only remove the limiter and see how fast the car goes.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    aah986 said:
    Quote:
    turboAD said:
    That is exactly what im trying to find out, whether our cars are fitted with an electronic speed limiter or not. I may be hitting the rev limiter however the pic shows that im hitting around 6500 rpms at max speed.




    I got the answer today from my tuner. he has been tuning porsche turbo engines for over 20 years. He said the 997TT has over 12 limiters including rev limiters for each gear and neutral and reverse PLUS a speed limiter.
    The fact that you are hitting a limiter before redline means that your ecu tune did not include a bump of the speed limiter, even if you have a bump of the rev limiter.
    The program I have is supposed to have a bumped rev PLUS speed limiter and the car's top speed would be limited either by drag or redline.
    Frankly, a speed limiter on a TT is a cheap shot from porsche even if it was close to the rev limit.
    Glad I got rid of it.



    Honestly, I think your tuner is telling you BS.

    As stated by mumbasic each and every 997TT (manual and Tip) should reach a top-speed of 325-326kph (based on speedo). The limit is set by the rev limiter.

    If your (tuned) car hits some other limiter this is probably a bug of the package the tuner installed in your car. A frequent problem of less renowned tuners is that their software and hardware updates might be full of flaws and bugs.

    Just ask RC about his experience with a cheap tuning product he had in one of his cars years ago...

    My personal advice would be to either do no tuning at all or to consult quality producers (like RS, RUF). Such a fine car as the 997TT should get the best upgrade possible

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    not really, his tuner is actually correct. The car does have a different rev limit for each gear. Somthing is limiting the top speed on our cars, in my case it is the speed limiter. I will try to get that removed. As for problems with ecu mods i guess that is inevitable if you choose an inexperienced tuner. Keep in mind that some tuners have done extensive hours of testing their tuning and the 997tt shares the same engine with the 996tt, turbos and minor things being different.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    turboAD said:
    Managed to get a run on a very long private road, the car was still pulling very hard and i was amazed at how fast the car was accelerating even at high speeds. I am pretty sure that there is a speed limiter on our cars as when i hit 324 i felt a cut in power. It wasnt the rev limiter as a had a few more rpms left. Keep in mind my car is a tip with an ecu mod.



    Ok, a question. Is it just me, or does that red warning light in the bottom right corner of the picture convey that having a speed limiter kick in at that sort of speed would be the least of your problems?

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    At that sort of speed that little warning light would do very little to save your life. Actually it was very caresless of me as i forgot to put on my seatbelt, i promise ill have it on next time

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    enzomikael said:
    That is not correct. At those speeds the speedometer shows probably around 10-15 km/h error depending on several factors.
    Anyway that`s fast Keep it safe



    LOL keep it save?! It must be an angel to drive that fast without a seatbelt. Silly!

    Greetings

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    turboAD said: the 997tt shares the same engine with the 996tt, turbos and minor things being different.



    Do you believe that the 997TT is as easy to tune as the 996TT? If yes, I am sorry to disagree... Why, for example, do RS and RUF not sell any 997TT tuning kits yet?

    BTW: The poster wrote that his tuner informed him not only about different max rev levels in different gears but also of a multitude of other limiters (including speed limiters). I think that is incorrect.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    aah986 said:
    Quote:
    turboAD said:
    That is exactly what im trying to find out, whether our cars are fitted with an electronic speed limiter or not. I may be hitting the rev limiter however the pic shows that im hitting around 6500 rpms at max speed.




    I got the answer today from my tuner. he has been tuning porsche turbo engines for over 20 years. He said the 997TT has over 12 limiters including rev limiters for each gear and neutral and reverse PLUS a speed limiter.
    The fact that you are hitting a limiter before redline means that your ecu tune did not include a bump of the speed limiter, even if you have a bump of the rev limiter.
    The program I have is supposed to have a bumped rev PLUS speed limiter and the car's top speed would be limited either by drag or redline.
    Frankly, a speed limiter on a TT is a cheap shot from porsche even if it was close to the rev limit.
    Glad I got rid of it.



    Honestly, I think your tuner is telling you BS.

    As stated by mumbasic each and every 997TT (manual and Tip) should reach a top-speed of 325-326kph (based on speedo). The limit is set by the rev limiter.

    If your (tuned) car hits some other limiter this is probably a bug of the package the tuner installed in your car. A frequent problem of less renowned tuners is that their software and hardware updates might be full of flaws and bugs.

    Just ask RC about his experience with a cheap tuning product he had in one of his cars years ago...

    My personal advice would be to either do no tuning at all or to consult quality producers (like RS, RUF). Such a fine car as the 997TT should get the best upgrade possible



    Look, I don't know if your post is in response to mine or turboAD, but I posted the information I got from a reputable US tuner. If you have a problem with that, fine but no need to accuse someone of BS if you are not sure 100%.
    Also, I never said the car's top speed is not limited by the revs, both limiters seem very close that it might be difficult to rule out one or the other as the true limiter. TurboAd has an extended rev limiter but that did not help him because something else was holding the car (speed limiter).
    Tuning a "fine" car like the TT can be risky, I agree, but it if you can't afford the consequences, don't do it. Otherwise do it and enjoy it, I have been enjoying my "not so cheap tune" for over 7000 miles, that's 11000 km for you...

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    If there is any evidence that the 997tt does not have a speed limiter please share your valuable source of info otherwise i am pretty certain that there is a speed limiter from porsche.

    Yes i definately think that the 997tt is easier to modify than the 996 since they both have the same engines and alot has been learnt from tuning the 996tt. Tuning the 996 tt was hard in the beginning because a lot of experimenting had to be done in order to find out what was effective and what wasn't. At first the main limiting factor in tuning the 997tt was the VTG turbo, due to their heat handling capabilities. Tuners have already figured ways of making the turbos produce more power at lower heat levels. Another thing is that bigger VTG turbos are now available in the European market so expect to see some crazy power from those soon.

    You simply cannot imply that just because the 997tt is hard to tune ruf has not given it a try. Ruf are not really tuners as they are car manufacturers, they already have the rt12, which in terms of power is far superior to the 997tt and can be compared to the carrera gt. Extracting power from a 997tt would be a piece of cake for ruf, they do it for a price. However, that price is a lot higher than what other tuners would charge,

    Keep in mind that tuners who have worked on the 996tt already know the limitations on the engine and hence can apply the same limitations to the 997tt.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Over here in the US major tuners using GIAC flashing (EVOMS, IA, Sharkwerks, and others) seem to have figured out the 997TT with very good reliable results. I believe Promotive has their own flash and have good results as well.

    Ruf, TA and Gemballa are much more than tuners, they build completly new cars from the Porsche baseline, which includes many engine mods (exhaust, ECU, and major internals), modded suspensions, interiors and major exterior mods, heck they don't even look like the orginals. The major engine mods and other things might be why these take longer.

    Mike

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    aah986 said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    aah986 said:
    Quote:
    turboAD said:
    That is exactly what im trying to find out, whether our cars are fitted with an electronic speed limiter or not. I may be hitting the rev limiter however the pic shows that im hitting around 6500 rpms at max speed.




    I got the answer today from my tuner. he has been tuning porsche turbo engines for over 20 years. He said the 997TT has over 12 limiters including rev limiters for each gear and neutral and reverse PLUS a speed limiter.
    The fact that you are hitting a limiter before redline means that your ecu tune did not include a bump of the speed limiter, even if you have a bump of the rev limiter.
    The program I have is supposed to have a bumped rev PLUS speed limiter and the car's top speed would be limited either by drag or redline.
    Frankly, a speed limiter on a TT is a cheap shot from porsche even if it was close to the rev limit.
    Glad I got rid of it.



    Honestly, I think your tuner is telling you BS.

    As stated by mumbasic each and every 997TT (manual and Tip) should reach a top-speed of 325-326kph (based on speedo). The limit is set by the rev limiter.

    If your (tuned) car hits some other limiter this is probably a bug of the package the tuner installed in your car. A frequent problem of less renowned tuners is that their software and hardware updates might be full of flaws and bugs.

    Just ask RC about his experience with a cheap tuning product he had in one of his cars years ago...

    My personal advice would be to either do no tuning at all or to consult quality producers (like RS, RUF). Such a fine car as the 997TT should get the best upgrade possible



    Look, I don't know if your post is in response to mine or turboAD, but I posted the information I got from a reputable US tuner. If you have a problem with that, fine but no need to accuse someone of BS if you are not sure 100%.
    Also, I never said the car's top speed is not limited by the revs, both limiters seem very close that it might be difficult to rule out one or the other as the true limiter. TurboAd has an extended rev limiter but that did not help him because something else was holding the car (speed limiter).
    Tuning a "fine" car like the TT can be risky, I agree, but it if you can't afford the consequences, don't do it. Otherwise do it and enjoy it, I have been enjoying my "not so cheap tune" for over 7000 miles, that's 11000 km for you...



    You know, one thing is evident: your tuner does not seem to know that the 997TT (without any tuning) hits the rev limiter at a indicated speed of around 325-326kph (corresponding to a real top speed of 310-311kph).

    Now, if he does not know that how could one think that he is a quality tuner?

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    turboAD said:
    If there is any evidence that the 997tt does not have a speed limiter please share your valuable source of info otherwise i am pretty certain that there is a speed limiter from porsche.




    The valuable source is my own drving experience

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    turboAD said:
    Yes i definately think that the 997tt is easier to modify than the 996 since they both have the same engines and alot has been learnt from tuning the 996tt. Tuning the 996 tt was hard in the beginning because a lot of experimenting had to be done in order to find out what was effective and what wasn't. At first the main limiting factor in tuning the 997tt was the VTG turbo, due to their heat handling capabilities. Tuners have already figured ways of making the turbos produce more power at lower heat levels. Another thing is that bigger VTG turbos are now available in the European market so expect to see some crazy power from those soon.

    You simply cannot imply that just because the 997tt is hard to tune ruf has not given it a try. Ruf are not really tuners as they are car manufacturers, they already have the rt12, which in terms of power is far superior to the 997tt and can be compared to the carrera gt. Extracting power from a 997tt would be a piece of cake for ruf, they do it for a price. However, that price is a lot higher than what other tuners would charge,

    Keep in mind that tuners who have worked on the 996tt already know the limitations on the engine and hence can apply the same limitations to the 997tt.



    I disagree with you on this topic, I am afraid.

    P.S.: You might consider doing some research on some of the long-time posters on rennteam. You might come to the conclusion that some of them do actually know what they are talking about.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    interesting that the 324 kph is achieved without the engine developing full boost...i would have thought at this speed everything would be maxed out...go figure

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Ok this is what i tried, Im at WOT hitting 324kph, boost pressure is reduced from 17,18psi to 15 psi due to the 10 second over boost function. I quickly let go of the gas and slam it again as i look into the boost guage i verify that overboost is re-functioning due to the arrow and then again i hit the 324km/h wall of electroninc limiters.

    The presence of a limiter is still there....

    You must have a really fast 997tt if you are hitting 325kph or more stock. I tried maximum speed when my car was stock and it took me forever to just reach 310km/h. The car was accelerating but very slowly and i had to stop due to traffic.

    Im sorry but i simply cant believe a person that denies reality, as you say that tuning the 997tt is hard and unreliable and ironically most porsche tuners seem to prove you wrong.

    keep in mind that there has been a case of a stock 997tt having an engine failure, so even if you choose to remain stock nothing guarantees that you will be risk free.


    I have done enough research to know who is BS'ing and who isnt. Again by denying reality you clearly show that you have no idea of what your talking about.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    turboAD said:
    Ok this is what i tried, Im at WOT hitting 324kph, boost pressure is reduced from 17,18psi to 15 psi due to the 10 second over boost function. I quickly let go of the gas and slam it again as i look into the boost guage i verify that overboost is re-functioning due to the arrow and then again i hit the 324km/h wall of electroninc limiters.

    The presence of a limiter is still there....

    You must have a really fast 997tt if you are hitting 325kph or more stock. I tried maximum speed when my car was stock and it took me forever to just reach 310km/h. The car was accelerating but very slowly and i had to stop due to traffic.

    Im sorry but i simply cant believe a person that denies reality, as you say that tuning the 997tt is hard and unreliable and ironically most porsche tuners seem to prove you wrong.

    keep in mind that there has been a case of a stock 997tt having an engine failure, so even if you choose to remain stock nothing guarantees that you will be risk free.


    I have done enough research to know who is BS'ing and who isnt. Again by denying reality you clearly show that you have no idea of what your talking about.



    turboAD, please refrain from using such a tone against Markus. For your information, he has a Ferrari 599 on order and has previously owned a 996TT X50. He did test drive the Turbo to its top speed and I do trust his judgement.

    Also, there is a huge difference between what driving you do and what he does. He lives in Germany and, at least at certain times, you get to do uninterrupted high-speed driving for even tens of minutes at a time, only braking occasionally. That's why he's concerned about reliability. EVO and GIAC don't have these kinds of issues. Their cars are designed to only be accelerationg for shortter periods of time, not for long duration top speed driving. VTG tuning is extremely tricky and, when not doe carefully, could literally set your car on fire. Trust me, MKSGR knows exactly what he's talking about and when he talks about reliability, he means reliability, not just the engine not breaking down during some spirited driving.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    While evo and giac might not take the autobahn into consideration, the the likes of techart,9ff,Digitech and fvd to name but a few take do. These tuners are german based and do take extended high speed runs into consideration.

    Im sorry if i was offensive in any way its just that if MKSGR has any problems with any of the tuners he should not claim that they are BSing and go off topic, i posted here to enjoy learning more about my car and to share my findings with others. Owning a ferrari does not make you smarter. Yes it is a georgeous piece of machinery and one of the best driving cars produced to date, but i dont see that having any relevance with the topic.

    Re: 324 km/h and still pulling hard

    Quote:
    turboAD said:
    While evo and giac might not take the autobahn into consideration, the the likes of techart,9ff,Digitech and fvd to name but a few take do. These tuners are german based and do take extended high speed runs into consideration.

    Im sorry if i was offensive in any way its just that if MKSGR has any problems with any of the tuners he should not claim that they are BSing and go off topic, i posted here to enjoy learning more about my car and to share my findings with others. Owning a ferrari does not make you smarter. Yes it is a georgeous piece of machinery and one of the best driving cars produced to date, but i dont see that having any relevance with the topic.



    Trust me, 9ff, Techart and Digitech (they tune Porsches now?) don't really have much of a reputation among german enthusiasts. FVD fares a bit better, but until RS Tuning releases a package, things are to be taken very suspiciously. After all, even Sportec, which is supposed to be a reputable tuner, has had one of its cars light on fire at 310 km/h.

    However, for the driving you guys do, a simple chip and exhaust truly won't hurt anything, at least not to a significant degree.

     
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