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    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    haha fair enough, go VETTEL! 


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Atzporsche:


    Is that how derive the better driver? What about Alonsos titles Smiley lol.


    When Alonso won the 2 titles, he had the dominant car, Renault were quite the super power in F1.


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Looks like we have entered a new era in F1 where you can get away with dirty tricks and cheating and the best in that department, the guys at McLaren, are taking advantage of it.



    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Button was superb today. Tactically so smart.

    McLaren's 1-2 may be spoilt by whatever penalty Hamilton may get for racing with Vettel in the pit lane.

    Great drive by Rosberg outshining Schumi totally.

    Alonso drove really well to make up for his mistake at the start. The 2nd safety car really helped him to catch up the 70 second gap.

    The way everyone was overtaking Schumi reduced the 7 time champ to a figure of ridicule today. He just wanted to be back in F1 but at what cost to his prestige?

    Massa was very poor today - even allowing Alonso to overtake him on the pit lane entry.

    Vettel and Webber have the faster cars in the dry weather but other drivers have been able to take advantage of the weather conditions far better than them.

    I thought the 2nd safety car was overkill just for picking up some debris.

    Another great race for Kubica and a fine performance by Petrov too. Good to see Renault competing when they very nearly didn't remain in F1.

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    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

     Very good result for Nico Rosberg today.


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    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    The way everyone was overtaking Schumi reduced the 7 time champ to a figure of ridicule today. He just wanted to be back in F1 but at what cost to his prestige?

     Yes, I really feel a bit sorry for him. 


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    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    gangajas:

    Looks like we have entered a new era in F1 where you can get away with dirty tricks and cheating and the best in that department, the guys at McLaren, are taking advantage of it.


    How did Button cheat today? Did you watch the same race as the rest of us?

    If you want people here to respect you and your opinion, you ought to re-consider the biased nature of your comments.


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    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    easy_rider911:

    Button was superb today. Tactically so smart.

    Yeah, the way he drove behind the SC was really smart, too bad is against the rules, but when he did it he knew he was going to get away with it so kudos for him for maximising his opportunties, who gives a damn about safety anyway (same for Lewis' pit-lane release)


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    You ought to acknowledge that it was a tactically smart decision by both Button and Rosberg to stay on slick tyres when everyone else came into the pits for intermediate tyres. That tactical decision helped them both to the podium. 

    Regarding restarting the race after the safety car - in past races, other drivers (including Alonso) have done exactly the same as Button i.e. slowing and compacting the cars behind them before restarting the race. Neither the stewards nor Alexander Wurz (helping them today) considered this to be illegal or against the rules.


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    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    easy_rider911:

    You ought to acknowledge that it was a tactically smart decision by both Button and Rosberg to stay on slick tyres when everyone else came into the pits for intermediate tyres. That tactical decision helped them both to the podium. 

    Regarding restarting the race after the safety car - in past races, other drivers (including Alonso) have done exactly the same as Button i.e. slowing and compacting the cars behind them before restarting the race. Neither the stewards nor Alexander Wurz (helping them today) considered this to be illegal or against the rules.

    Hey, I'm not saying he wasn't smart of course he was, but the way he drove behind the safety car, forming a pile of drivers behind him is against the rules, no matter if Teflonso or whoever did it in the past. But as I've said he knew he was going to get away with it because of the new approach taken by the stewards, so kudos for him.


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    easy_rider911:


    McLaren's 1-2 may be spoilt by whatever penalty Hamilton may get for racing with Vettel in the pit lane.

    Nothing.

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83029


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    reginos:
    easy_rider911:


    McLaren's 1-2 may be spoilt by whatever penalty Hamilton may get for racing with Vettel in the pit lane.

    Nothing.

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83029

    How many reprimands can you get before they actually punish you, one per race? And I wonder if this time they are going to follow the usual procedure:

    - Reprimand Lewis Hamilton for driving dangerously, then

    -Tell all the other drivers that they are going to be punished if they ever do something like that in the future.

     

     


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Brilliant article from Andrew Benson analysing the rivalry between Hamilton and Button, Schumi's return etc

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2010/04/wise_button_putting_hamilton_i.html 


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    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    gangajas:
    reginos:
    easy_rider911:


    McLaren's 1-2 may be spoilt by whatever penalty Hamilton may get for racing with Vettel in the pit lane.

    Nothing.

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83029

    How many reprimands can you get before they actually punish you, one per race? And I wonder if this time they are going to follow the usual procedure:

    - Reprimand Lewis Hamilton for driving dangerously, then

    -Tell all the other drivers that they are going to be punished if they ever do something like that in the future.

    Your point would be a good one IF it were accurate. 

    After Hamilton was reprimanded for weaving (claiming he was trying to deprive Petrov of a 'slipstream toe' rather than defending), it was the F1 drivers themselves (through the Grand Prix Drivers' Association and not the FIA or the stewards) that mutually agreed that, from now that point onwards, weaving (for whatever reason) would not be allowed.

    So your description that Hamilton gets reprimanded and then the authorities threaten to punish others for the same thing is false.

    It's such a pity that you form the conclusion that fits your prejudices and then you try to fit the facts to that conclusion. It didn't work this time. It would be better if you looked at the facts first and then tried to form a conclusion that flows from those facts. 

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    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    reginos:
    easy_rider911:


    McLaren's 1-2 may be spoilt by whatever penalty Hamilton may get for racing with Vettel in the pit lane.

    Nothing.

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83029

    That is not surprising, if it were any other driver, he would of gotten 10 places back, but its well know that Hamilton is always favored in the race rulings, there is a history of this. And to put the icing on the cake on Hamilton's display of the dirty racing he is getting to be know for (and the other drivers are complaiing of lately) he pushed Webber completely out of the track after the second safety car launch. You would think the FIA would give him a wake up call but....


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    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    easy_rider911:

    After Hamilton was reprimanded for weaving (claiming he was trying to deprive Petrov of a 'slipstream toe' rather than defending), it was the F1 drivers themselves (through the Grand Prix Drivers' Association and not the FIA or the stewards) that mutually agreed that, from now that point onwards, weaving (for whatever reason) would not be allowed.

     

    I disagree here, the drivers had already agreed to that before Hamilton did it, they all agreed to it, except that Hamilton got away from a technicality of saying that he wasn't weaving, he was avoiding the slipstream. So afterwards the drivers had to include that in the definition and agreed that avoiding the slipstream is also considered the same, so that no one can use that excuse again. But it was abovious thats what they had meant initially, and what better proof that, we have seen time and time again drivers in that same situation with the other driver right behind in the slipstream ready to attack on the corner and NONE of them did what Hamilton did. Any other driver would have been penalised, Hamilton, like today, gets a reprimand.

     

     

     


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    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Carlos from Spain:
    reginos:
    easy_rider911:


    McLaren's 1-2 may be spoilt by whatever penalty Hamilton may get for racing with Vettel in the pit lane.

    Nothing.

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83029

    That is not surprising, if it were any other driver, he would of gotten 10 places back, but its well know that Hamilton is always favored in the race rulings, there is a history of this. And to put the icing on the cake on Hamilton's display of the dirty racing he is getting to be know for (and the other drivers are complaiing of lately) he pushed Webber completely out of the track after the second safety car launch. You would think the FIA would give him a wake up call but....

    Someone could suspect so, but why in your opinion FIA would favour Hamilton?


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Exactly - why favour Hamilton? Smiley He is 'damaged goods' ever since 'lie-gate'.

    If the FIA or Bernie Ecclestone want young heroes to attract publicity and to act as ambassadors to help promote the future of F1, they need look no further: there is an abundance of sparkling talent in Rosberg, Vettel and Button. They are exciting to watch on track plus they are excellent role models.

    F1 doesn't need Hamilton as much as Hamilton needs F1 Smiley

    --
     
    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    reginos:

    That is not surprising, if it were any other driver, he would of gotten 10 places back, but its well know that Hamilton is always favored in the race rulings, there is a history of this. And to put the icing on the cake on Hamilton's display of the dirty racing he is getting to be know for (and the other drivers are complaiing of lately) he pushed Webber completely out of the track after the second safety car launch. You would think the FIA would give him a wake up call but....

    Someone could suspect so, but why in your opinion FIA would favour Hamilton?

     

    Who knows, and don't give it much thought why, I would be interesting to know, but its proven time and time again that its so for whatever reason.


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    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    easy_rider911:

    Exactly - why favour Hamilton? Smiley He is 'damaged goods' ever since 'lie-gate'.

    If the FIA or Bernie Ecclestone want young heroes to attract publicity and to act as ambassadors to help promote the future of F1, they need look no further: there is an abundance of sparkling talent in Rosberg, Vettel and Button. They are exciting to watch on track plus they are excellent role models.

    F1 doesn't need Hamilton as much as Hamilton needs F1 Smiley

    Definately, that would not be a reason, the last driver they would want as an ambassador I would think would be Hamilton given his actions not only inside the track, but especially also outside the track.


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    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Gangajas comment might have´ve been meant tongue in cheek but he has a certain point here. Hamiltons behaviour towards Vettel and Webber this time were quite odd but so was Kubica´s pit lane action in last race´s qualifying. I do find it odd that drivers do get away with that and only afterwards rules are adapted to avoid these incidents. So as long as you find a suitably evasive answer you do not suffer from any consequences?


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    BTW Button is giving us a pleasant surprise, I think he is driving better this year than any of his many previous years in F1, and thats with all the pressure he has now given his teammate and his teammate position in the team. Half way the race today you could say he got lucky again from taking a risky gamble in the strategy, but he also drove fast, and with 0 mistakes. I don'tb think he may have been as effective as Hamilton in overtaking other drivers if he would of gotten caught mid pack, but when he is placed in the lead, he delivers. Good for him, you can't help being happy for him with him being such and easy going and well mannered guy (unlike his teammate).

     

    Massa and Schumacher looked very porr in contrast though.


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    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    IMO it because Button is very at ease with himself. He is very happily settled at McLaren. He is obviously happy with his GF. He is comfortable with the burden of responsibility of being defending world champ. He is confidently exploring all corners of his ability since moving up to a new level of performance. 


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    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    reginos:
    easy_rider911:


    McLaren's 1-2 may be spoilt by whatever penalty Hamilton may get for racing with Vettel in the pit lane.

    Nothing.

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83029

    And come to think about it, why would Vettel get a reprimand?Smiley he got overtaken into the pits, he overtook Hamilton in the pit stop, had the correct lane and had the position, and it was Hamilton who was parelleling him in the slow lane and held it there until they almost touched. Crazy.


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    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Carlos from Spain:

    BTW Button is giving us a pleasant surprise, I think he is driving better this year than any of his many previous years in F1, and thats with all the pressure he has now given his teammate and his teammate position in the team. Half way the race today you could say he got lucky again from taking a risky gamble in the strategy, but he also drove fast, and with 0 mistakes. I don'tb think he may have been as effective as Hamilton in overtaking other drivers if he would of gotten caught mid pack, but when he is placed in the lead, he delivers. Good for him, you can't help being happy for him with him being such and easy going and well mannered guy (unlike his teammate).

     

    Massa and Schumacher looked very porr in contrast though.

    You are right that Button is very good when he leads and defends, so because he is not a top qualifier this year, he can shine under special weather/tyre choice situations or when the race leader faces problems.

    As for MS, if things carry on like that, I don't see him finishing the year. Perhaps, his neck injury will recur at some stage around mid-season Smiley


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    easy_rider911:

    IMO it because Button is very at ease with himself. He is very happily settled at McLaren. He is obviously happy with his GF. He is comfortable with the burden of responsibility of being defending world champ. He is confidently exploring all corners of his ability since moving up to a new level of performance. 

    He does indeed look confident and calm/happy. On the other hand, objectively he should not be that confident in that situation, he won his tittle thanks to a car that was in another league to everybody elses and only had to fight a mediocre driver like Barichello, he never did anything until that year inspite of being many years in F1 and I think had the record of the most GPs without winning a race. And Hamilton has shown to be faster than him overall in these years. So many other drivers would not be that confident inside while being more realistic. Instead Button believes in himself, as he should, and maintains calm and driving better than ever inspite the pressure. I think that is comendable as well Smiley


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    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Carlos from Spain:
    reginos:
    easy_rider911:


    McLaren's 1-2 may be spoilt by whatever penalty Hamilton may get for racing with Vettel in the pit lane.

    Nothing.

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83029

    And come to think about it, why would Vettel get a reprimand?Smiley he got overtaken into the pits, he overtook Hamilton in the pit stop, had the correct lane and had the position, and it was Hamilton who was parelleling him in the slow lane and held it there until they almost touched. Crazy.


    When Vettel and Hamilton were driving next to each other in the pit lane, there is a moment when Vettel steered into Hamilton a little (i.e. to make him back off) rather than Vettel just steering away to avoid/minimise all risk of collision. I believe that is why he was reprimanded as well.

    When I saw the video replay from Red Bull's pit box, the McLaren lolly pop man signals Hamilton to release just a split second after Vettel's car moves off.

    IMO this was too tiny an interval to blame the McLaren lolly pop man. Eddie Jordan described this as a 'racing incident' saying you can't legislate for a split second like that.

    IMO it was not the fault of McLaren but, given that the danger had arisen through no one's fault, IMHO Hamilton should have backed off. You have to remember that the pit crews for other teams were standing nearby and they were at risk of being run over in the heat of the moment.

    Was this cheating by Hamilton? I don't think so. But was it foolish and dangerous? Yes, I believe it was.

    But I'm 40 years old and I'm a risk averse kind of guy. I'm not a 20 something guy who is running on adrenaline in a race fighting for a drivers title. Plus it's easy to be wise with hindsight and video replays. 

    --
     
    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Was there any reason for which Hamilton couldn't back off?  Was he obliged in anyway to race Vettel down the pitlane?

    You say that he "is running on adrenaline in a race fighting for a drivers title". Well, if that makes him a danger for the other drivers as it's being proven again and again by his bonehead moves, maybe he should be banned until he thinks twice before doing such a things.


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    gangajas:

    Was there any reason for which Hamilton couldn't back off?  Was he obliged in anyway to race Vettel down the pitlane?

    You say that he "is running on adrenaline in a race fighting for a drivers title". Well, if that makes him a danger for the other drivers as it's being proven again and again by his bonehead moves, maybe he should be banned until he thinks twice before doing such a things.

     

    Your bias against Hamilton is much much worse than mine against Alonso, at least I would still have something good to say about Alonso if he really did something good.

    Was there any reason for which VETTEL couldn't back off? Was he obliged in anyway to race Hamilton down the pitlane? Couldn't he back off a bit to avoid an accident?


    Re: 2010 Chinese F1 Grand Prix in Shanghai

    Whoopsy:
    gangajas:

    Was there any reason for which Hamilton couldn't back off?  Was he obliged in anyway to race Vettel down the pitlane?

    You say that he "is running on adrenaline in a race fighting for a drivers title". Well, if that makes him a danger for the other drivers as it's being proven again and again by his bonehead moves, maybe he should be banned until he thinks twice before doing such a things.

     

    Your bias against Hamilton is much much worse than mine against Alonso, at least I would still have something good to say about Alonso if he really did something good.

    Was there any reason for which VETTEL couldn't back off? Was he obliged in anyway to race Hamilton down the pitlane? Couldn't he back off a bit to avoid an accident?

    Excuse me? I think Lewis is probably the most talented driver out there, but I also think that he crosses the line way too often.

    Vettel had already overtaken Hamilton, is there any reason for which he should have backed off? I don't think so.


     
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