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    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Looks like you're not the only one LukasLuis.

    On Nov. 4th I took this picture of a black 997 Turbo being delivered, now it's back at the dealer:
    http://www.finn.no/finn/car/object?finnkode=9082397&sid=6avIvKRue727496&pos=2&tot=107

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    silverrules said:
    Usually if I am not happy with any of my car, I dump it as fast as I can. It will be gone before I even know it myself. I don't go on line and complain about the quality of it and hold on to the car, but everyone is different, I guess.



    Isn't that what we did?

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    Over the Hill said:
    LukasLuis, sorry for your disappointment, but as I recall (confirmed by a search of your posts) you were told at the outset that this car was not for you and that you would be disappointed in it. You apparently ignored the advice of several long time Porsche owners [...]



    Now that you mention it, I remember it as well. I honestly cannot understand how someone could buy an expensive car without having taken a testdrive or at least a ride in it. As others mentioned above, the TT might not be the right car for you. You seem to be looking for a car to get thrilled in, the TT is intended to close the gap between luxury cars and unpractical exotics. In my eyes it does it pretty well...

    What makes me wonder is why certain people massively complain about turbolag, while others are absolutely fine with their cars - it cannot be a matter of transmission.
    However I do agree that the muted sound is somewhat of an issue, one that can be solved though...

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    I think you can critisize any car if you look to deeply at it. I think its all about how you feel when you drive the car because nothing in life is perfect. When I took delivery of mine I noticed a few things - exhaust note especially - and I joined this forum to get advice from all of you in how to get my car as close to my ideal as possible. Well, a Cargraphic exhaust, a Techart MF wheel and some other bits and pieces to personalise my car and now I have a car that scares me when I push it. This is what I wanted from the Turbo and it has delivered it without question.

    I'm sorry to hear somebody is not happy and these things happen but I really believe that with a bit of imagination and a few risks you can really find that feeling that you wanted from the Turbo - mine was to terrify me and its worked!!

    I love this car because it is what you want it to be; a daily driver, a weekend car or a track car. But unfortunately some cars are made "on those Monday morning" and those gremlins can be really frustrating. But I really believe that if you stick with it, iron out the gremlins and personalize the car to how you want it it will be one of the best decisions you'll make this year.

    Best of luck and let's hope you find a solution.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Are there many TT owners attend to sell their car??

    We have got at most 5-6 997 TT here(istanbul), and i know at least 2 of them already changed their 1st owners.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Sorry, LL but maybe something is wrong with your car or your expectations are just too high:

    1. my 997 Turbo is faster in ANY speed range than a BMW M6, we already tested it and the difference isn't only minor but substantial. Especially at speeds over 200 kph, the BMW stands no chance, same at speeds below 160 kph. Between 160 and 200 kph, the BMW M6 falls back only a little but still no match for the Turbo.

    2. Above 250 kph, my car accelerates like hell. No problem to hit 310 kph pretty fast, only above 310 kph on the speedo, the speed increase is a bit slow up to 326/327 on the speedo which should be true 311 kph (measured by GPS).

    3. The turbo lag is still there but only at lower rev figures and compared to the 996 Turbo, it has been reduced a lot. With Sport Chrono turned on, the Turbo lag is even more reduced, throttle response is very good for a turbo charged engine.

    4. Exhaust sound is indeed ridiculous. It gets better after 6000 km or so but still, not satisfying. Apparently Porsche targets a different audience with the 997 Turbo, those mid 40s/mid 50s business men who travel a lot and don't want to be annoyed by excessive exhaust note. The truth is: 90% of the Turbo owners I met apparently are a good match for Porsche marketing since they really couldn't care less about the exhaust sound.

    5. The BOSE sound system is not a system perfect for the ears of an audiophile but trust me, as a musician and audiophile person, the sound system is still pretty good for a Porsche and seems to be at par with other systems available at Audi or BMW for example. I hear mostly dance music like R%B, Hip Hop, Trance, House, etc., the sound is great, not so great using MP3 files though.

    6. The build quality of my 997 Turbo is impeccable but I also have to admit that I'm not the type of person who cares too much about interior noises since I mostly listen to music, to the exhaust sound (Cargraphic exhaust) or just cocentrate on driving. However, no interior noises yet, thanks god. The quality on Porsche cars has never been as good as it is now, I don't know your experience with Porsche in the past but I started with a 993 back in 1996 and since then, I had more than half a dozend Porsche and quality has improved with each model. Also don't forget that I'm helping running this site, so I saw and learned a lot of things about Porsche quality and believe me, the quality was NEVER that high in the Porsche past.

    If you think your car is underpowered, you may be right. Yes, 100 HP more shouldn't be a problem. On the other hand, if you can handle the current available power at the limit (and I don't mean driving on the Autobahn ), you must be a very good driver and this may be the wrong car for you, unless you need the rear seats like I do.
    Anyway: til now, only one car was able to keep up with the 997 Turbo and only at a certain speed range, the Corvette Z06. And of course Alois Ruf blew me away in his blue Ruf RT monster but surprisingly, only at speeds over 160 kph.

    0-300 kph in 40 seconds. If you call this slow, I really don't know what your expectations are. Maybe you want to wait for the 997 GT2.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Just a short addition: http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=292479&an=0&page=0#292479
    This is the link where everything started.

    Maybe a M6 would have been the right car for LL but I doubt it. My advice if you have the money: get a Brabus ROCKET with 730 HP, this car does 0-300 kph in aprox. 30 seconds and has room for four people and a lot of luggage, incl. some superb comfort. Not quite cheap but I think this would be the right car for you. Not that I told you before that the 997 Turbo isn't the right car for you.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Now that you mention it, I remember it as well. I honestly cannot understand how someone could buy an expensive car without having taken a testdrive or at least a ride in it.



    Probably because those who are interested in the car are forced to place themselves on the waiting list or even pre-order the car well before the car was originally released such as myself. I put my name on the list last December before I even had a chance to see or test drive the car. It's a big gamble which definitely paid off for me. Even today, the chances of finding a "demo" car to test drive before buying or ordering one in most areas are pretty slim. This is probably why most prospective owners are forced to make a decision based on the testimonials of owner owners or magazines, reviews, etc.

    I had a chance to test drive the Turbo several times prior to having taken delivery and my love for the car was confirmed each and every time. I'd find myself wanting a "Turbo Fix" every time! It definitely made the wait even more agonizing for me!

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Sorry, LL but maybe something is wrong with your car or your expectations are just too high:

    1. my 997 Turbo is faster in ANY speed range than a BMW M6, we already tested it and the difference isn't only minor but substantial. Especially at speeds over 200 kph, the BMW stands no chance, same at speeds below 160 kph. Between 160 and 200 kph, the BMW M6 falls back only a little but still no match for the Turbo.

    2. Above 250 kph, my car accelerates like hell. No problem to hit 310 kph pretty fast, only above 310 kph on the speedo, the speed increase is a bit slow up to 326/327 on the speedo which should be true 311 kph (measured by GPS).

    3. The turbo lag is still there but only at lower rev figures and compared to the 996 Turbo, it has been reduced a lot. With Sport Chrono turned on, the Turbo lag is even more reduced, throttle response is very good for a turbo charged engine.

    4. Exhaust sound is indeed ridiculous. It gets better after 6000 km or so but still, not satisfying. Apparently Porsche targets a different audience with the 997 Turbo, those mid 40s/mid 50s business men who travel a lot and don't want to be annoyed by excessive exhaust note. The truth is: 90% of the Turbo owners I met apparently are a good match for Porsche marketing since they really couldn't care less about the exhaust sound.

    5. The BOSE sound system is not a system perfect for the ears of an audiophile but trust me, as a musician and audiophile person, the sound system is still pretty good for a Porsche and seems to be at par with other systems available at Audi or BMW for example. I hear mostly dance music like R%B, Hip Hop, Trance, House, etc., the sound is great, not so great using MP3 files though.

    6. The build quality of my 997 Turbo is impeccable but I also have to admit that I'm not the type of person who cares too much about interior noises since I mostly listen to music, to the exhaust sound (Cargraphic exhaust) or just cocentrate on driving. However, no interior noises yet, thanks god. The quality on Porsche cars has never been as good as it is now, I don't know your experience with Porsche in the past but I started with a 993 back in 1996 and since then, I had more than half a dozend Porsche and quality has improved with each model. Also don't forget that I'm helping running this site, so I saw and learned a lot of things about Porsche quality and believe me, the quality was NEVER that high in the Porsche past.

    If you think your car is underpowered, you may be right. Yes, 100 HP more shouldn't be a problem. On the other hand, if you can handle the current available power at the limit (and I don't mean driving on the Autobahn ), you must be a very good driver and this may be the wrong car for you, unless you need the rear seats like I do.
    Anyway: til now, only one car was able to keep up with the 997 Turbo and only at a certain speed range, the Corvette Z06. And of course Alois Ruf blew me away in his blue Ruf RT monster but surprisingly, only at speeds over 160 kph.

    0-300 kph in 40 seconds. If you call this slow, I really don't know what your expectations are. Maybe you want to wait for the 997 GT2.



    IMO, exhaust note failure of 997TT (AKA Prius Turbo) is product of P engineering simply unable to solve the issue....profit-hungry P would certainly like a high-margin $5K PSE option...if P R&D can't develop a proper, robust exhaust, highly unlikely any aftermkt entity w/their "R&D" of random customer (AKA beta-tester) cars can either....

    The marketing BS re: businessmen wanting a quiet car doesn't make sense.....SL55 and CL63 reflect intensive exhaust note "engineering"; even the biturbo 65s have elegantly intimidating exhaust notes....and the incredibly comfortable/practical 599 w/its buyer base of elder statesmen (who often also drive '07 CLs as their daily cars) has a rather inspiring exhaust note....

    Clearly, both F/MB have successfully engineered aural magic into inherently smooth motors like 12s...and inherently muffled motors like biturbo 65s.....for car models largely bought by 40yo-ish plutocrats, many of whom use them for daily commuting....

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Just a short addition: http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=292479&an=0&page=0#292479
    This is the link where everything started.

    Maybe a M6 would have been the right car for LL but I doubt it. My advice if you have the money: get a Brabus ROCKET with 730 HP, this car does 0-300 kph in aprox. 30 seconds and has room for four people and a lot of luggage, incl. some superb comfort. Not quite cheap but I think this would be the right car for you. Not that I told you before that the 997 Turbo isn't the right car for you.



    Even Germany has some suboptimal pavement roads and occasional inclement weather, right?

    Would observe I typically drive my '07 CL600 faster than I did my prior '07 SL65 (despite some 100 less hp/lb-ft) simply b/c 65's poor traction on uneven surfaces/wet roads saps confidence/driving pleasure.....

    Will trade-in my 600 for the CL63 in Mar, w/some 150 less lb-ft, b/c IMO more important than raw power/0-xxx times are attributes like steering precision/brake pedal feel/exhaust note/susp tightness/paddleshifters/traction/damping and cross-wind stability, etc....

    Doubt any aftermkt maker can develop a particularly balanced car, simply b/c of their lack of R&D scale....would argue 65 is a great example of a factory-spec imbalanced car...too much tq for chassis, leading to a lack of traction even in mundane driving for a daily commuter car....

    Suspect 599 and S/CL63 will offer best balance of speed/driving feel&precision/comfort/practicality...

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    in the uk autocar magazine said that the 997 turbo was slower than m6 above 120 mph? so whos right?

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    Barney said:
    ..... In any weather other than bone dry there is no contest and I live in scotland so that is an issue for me....

    That's the reason why I change after 20 years of BMW (today a M6) to a 997 TT tip in summer.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    twin turbo said:
    in the uk autocar magazine said that the 997 turbo was slower than m6 above 120 mph? so whos right?



    We tested only ONE M6 in comparison, so maybe we are wrong.
    On the other hand, we tested two CUSTOMER cars in comparison, not press cars, so do the math.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    twin turbo said:
    in the uk autocar magazine said that the 997 turbo was slower than m6 above 120 mph? so whos right?



    We tested only ONE M6 in comparison, so maybe we are wrong.
    On the other hand, we tested two CUSTOMER cars in comparison, not press cars, so do the math.



    Also, MKSGR tested TWO different M6s against his 996TT X50 and the stock M6 was slower than the Turbo above 240 km/h, while the tuned M6 kept up with him, but couldn't overtake him.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    twin turbo said:
    in the uk autocar magazine said that the 997 turbo was slower than m6 above 120 mph? so whos right?



    We tested only ONE M6 in comparison, so maybe we are wrong.
    On the other hand, we tested two CUSTOMER cars in comparison, not press cars, so do the math.



    Also, MKSGR tested TWO different M6s against his 996TT X50 and the stock M6 was slower than the Turbo above 240 km/h, while the tuned M6 kept up with him, but couldn't overtake him.



    We have to differ between amateur testing and professional testing.

    On every test in the lower range (up to 160 km/h) the 997 tt was faster. There are only three tests I have read where they have tested to higher speeds, and there everytime the M6 was faster in the higher region. I mean e.g. form 160-250 km/h.

    My personal feeling was that the M6 is very fast in the upper region faster then a 997 tt. But this is my objective feeling.

    AM

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    twin turbo said:
    in the uk autocar magazine said that the 997 turbo was slower than m6 above 120 mph? so whos right?



    We tested only ONE M6 in comparison, so maybe we are wrong.
    On the other hand, we tested two CUSTOMER cars in comparison, not press cars, so do the math.



    Also, MKSGR tested TWO different M6s against his 996TT X50 and the stock M6 was slower than the Turbo above 240 km/h, while the tuned M6 kept up with him, but couldn't overtake him.



    We have to differ between amateur testing and professional testing.

    On every test in the lower range (up to 160 km/h) the 997 tt was faster. There are only three tests I have read where they have tested to higher speeds, and there everytime the M6 was faster in the higher region. I mean e.g. form 160-250 km/h.

    My personal feeling was that the M6 is very fast in the upper region faster then a 997 tt. But this is my objective feeling.

    AM



    Well, that's what I would have expected as well. However, Markus has repeated that result several times (the M6 just couldn't keep up with him at higher speeds). From all that has been said, the M6 does 0-300 in about 48-50 seconds, while the 997TT does it in around 40 seconds. It's also faster than the Z06 at higher speeds, although one wouldn't have expected that. In any case, the only way to solve prove this definitely is to have several members with M6s and 997TTs meet and have go at it.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=86046

    This is a great read , read in to it what you like but its quite a good reference to the above discussion here...

    LOL ,, sod the break in....

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    devo said:
    Quote:
    silverrules said:
    Usually if I am not happy with any of my car, I dump it as fast as I can. It will be gone before I even know it myself. I don't go on line and complain about the quality of it and hold on to the car, but everyone is different, I guess.



    Isn't that what we did?



    After selling my car, I would stop checking 997TT forum and If I had just gotten a brand new BMW 335 becasue I couldn't afford the 997TT and I was way over my head in debt, I would start attending the 335forum and start all over again

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=83433

    Check this out (again maybe I know )...

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    What wheels are on the black car above? They look like the carrera sport wheels?

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT


    One of the problems with people who buy very high end sports cars is that they always love the next great car and the one they just bought is just not what they thought it was going to be. That is how WE have become programmed by the automobile industry. It is just like brides and wedding magazines...did you see that new Wang gown? Well I know I have wasted a lot of money on cars. But I think I am getting better...it has almost been a WHOLE year and I have not bought the next new car! I am getting better. I have a C4S and I love it. I am slowly getting better and I am beginning to find an inner peace with myself that lets me grow into this car. The next best does not make be better. I make myself better...not some pile of metal. The 997 TT is a great car. The Ferrari 430 is a great car. The Z06 is a great car. None of them will make you better person. And there is always a cooler car that has some feature that is always better. I have had so many cars from Corvette to Ferrari to Z cars and I am frankly embarrassed that I did not really understand how good they were when I owned them. .

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    stork, you the man! exactly what i am going through now, finally got to understand this and am happy with my S, though i agree with you, i should have enjoyed my previous m3 and m5 for what they were instead of looking at the next car every 6 months..

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Also, MKSGR tested TWO different M6s against his 996TT X50 and the stock M6 was slower than the Turbo above 240 km/h, while the tuned M6 kept up with him, but couldn't overtake him.

    The first sentence is correct. It was my stock M6. The second sentence is wrong: the 996TT X50 was slower then the tuned M6 in every situation.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    turbosteff said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Also, MKSGR tested TWO different M6s against his 996TT X50 and the stock M6 was slower than the Turbo above 240 km/h, while the tuned M6 kept up with him, but couldn't overtake him.

    The first sentence is correct. It was my stock M6. The second sentence is wrong: the 996TT X50 was slower then the tuned M6 in every situation.



    Sorry for the misinformation. I must've misunderstood Markus then.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Crash,

    the time to 300 km/h for 997 tt and M6 are not so far as you have pointed out. Some M6 owners do have problems with the LC. You have to decide LC or no LC, if you release a little the throttle then it is over and you have to do it on your own. Also in wet conditions it is better not to use the LC.

    AM

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Is it around 46-48 second??

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    To work today I drove my 993 C4S, 3.8 Porsche kit, light flywheel, sport clutch, shorter gearing. I also have a very lightened, heavily upgraded 993 turbo.

    There is NOTHING like a normally aspirated car. As I get older and appreciate the subtle nuances of driving pleasure more than the sheer potency of technological prowess, my C4S brings me more pleasure.

    Every little curl of the toes brings a measured response from that engine - all of it's torque, all of the time, from microthrottle applications.

    I'm lucky enough to drive a winding road along the water as my daily commute. It is wet more than not, especially this time of year (Seattle area). For pure Porsche pleasure, on that road 4 days a week, I clearly prefer my C4S. And my turbo is seeming more and more like a freak of nature with no home.

    I've bumped my 997tt deposit forward until PDK is out - PDK in that car could truly transform it. And I won't buy until I've driven. But, honestly, I'm leaning toward a special edition 997 or even an upgraded Cayman (when Porsche makes one) given the cumulative experience of this group and my other reading since the 997tt release.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    silverrules said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    Quote:
    silverrules said:
    Usually if I am not happy with any of my car, I dump it as fast as I can. It will be gone before I even know it myself. I don't go on line and complain about the quality of it and hold on to the car, but everyone is different, I guess.



    Isn't that what we did?



    After selling my car, I would stop checking 997TT forum and If I had just gotten a brand new BMW 335 becasue I couldn't afford the 997TT and I was way over my head in debt, I would start attending the 335forum and start all over again



    What a pretentious, bitter, person you must be. I won't even banter with over you ridiculous, insensitive statements.

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    devo said:
    Quote:
    silverrules said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    Quote:
    silverrules said:
    Usually if I am not happy with any of my car, I dump it as fast as I can. It will be gone before I even know it myself. I don't go on line and complain about the quality of it and hold on to the car, but everyone is different, I guess.



    Isn't that what we did?



    After selling my car, I would stop checking 997TT forum and If I had just gotten a brand new BMW 335 becasue I couldn't afford the 997TT and I was way over my head in debt, I would start attending the 335forum and start all over again



    What a pretentious, bitter, person you must be. I won't even banter with over you ridiculous, insensitive statements.



    Beisdes, what is wrong with the BMW 335. Especially as a daily driver? Does your turbo make you a MAN? How's that go; the more expensive the car the more he's compensating? What are you compensating for? Silver rules, kind of like; "chicks rule", isn't it!

    Re: Very disappointed with 997 TT

    Quote:
    Crash said:

    Sorry for the misinformation. I must've misunderstood Markus then.

    Maybe Markus had his Porsche glasses on....So his perception was not so objective... for his excuse: it was dark around 11.00 pm after a lot of driving in Hockenheim

     
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