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    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    And it will be firmly in Gallardo territory, not sure Piech will allow another entry into that space. As it is, the R8 already stealing some sales from Lambo.

    I can see your point but I don't think  Porsche and Lamborghini clash to a significant degree. The philosophies are different.

    The R8 could be exclusively AWD, more touring and at 911 prices (max 200.000 EUR) , to differentiate it from the RWD only, track oriented and Ferrari territory, Porsche.

    I think I will ask to be paid for doing  VW Group's marketing Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    I would actually keep Lambo as a exotic car company, outrageous impractical ones.

    Take the R8 away from Audi, let them have the GT cars, front engine, rwd/awd comfortable cruisers.

    Keep all the sports car within Porsche, rebadged the R8 as a Porsche. Panamera would make a nice step up from A8, call it the A9 class or something. Cayenne? I think it would be better as a Lambo SUV.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Here is a config pic of the free cup holder for the 918:

    image001.jpg


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    I would actually keep Lambo as a exotic car company, outrageous impractical ones.

    Take the R8 away from Audi, let them have the GT cars, front engine, rwd/awd comfortable cruisers.

    Keep all the sports car within Porsche, rebadged the R8 as a Porsche. Panamera would make a nice step up from A8, call it the A9 class or something. Cayenne? I think it would be better as a Lambo SUV.

    If Porsche had come under VW earlier, I am sure the R8 wouldn't exist. But now that Audi have this accomplished sportscar, there is no turning back. Analogously, the same with Panamera and the Cayenne on the part of Porsche. Too late to abolish these successful models for the sake of "purity".

    Nevertheless, I think that the Panamera is a sports car, at least in Turbo S specification for its class. Same for the upper Cayenne models among SUVs.  Compare the Panamera TS  NBR times against the competing Mercedes, Audi, BMW and Maserati. The competition is behind.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Thanks Woopsy!
    Must be the world's first picture of the 918 cup holder! Dang, that thing is gonna be famous! :-D


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Not sure why Porsche didn't copy McLaren and put the cupholder under the fly bridge, that's a perfectly empty spot for it.

    Since that cupholder is such an eyesore, I am going to keep that option just so I can tell all my friends how stupid Porsche is designing cupholders. 


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:

     

    Agreed, but I was looking towards having a sporty(orange) mixed with elegance (brown and cream). These three colors go beautifully together. The orange and brown provide a nice contrast to the cream. However, I do like the black/black with green piping that you have chosen. Marginally less elegant, but slightly more sporty. (PS. Black is also not Porsche. JPS Lotus comes to mind. Smiley)

     

    JPS Lotus, first driver comes to mine is Ayrton Senna, my all time favourite driver, even when he only drove that livery for 2 seasons. 

    I have been trying to picture the 918 in a cream color, I think you mean one of those creamy off white Porsche offered on the older 911? While that cream works great in a classic shape like the 911,  I feel like the 918's lines are too modern for that color. 

    But some old colors I think do work on the 918, for cream tones I think Riviera Blue, Lapis Blue for metallic tone. 


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    The 918 is a $650k car... No more. It will have epic depreciation (under 550k after 3-4 years). They simply are going to make too many of them. The hybrid technology is going to march on at a tremendous rate with better batteries and engines, leaving the 918 outdated even faster than any previous Porsche supercars.

    Yes and no. Batteries can be exchanged, control units attached to charging them too, this wouldn't be a problem and I think Porsche thought about that. Of course things could look different in 15 or 20 years, when the car is a classic but I doubt that Porsche will give up on the 918, they will offer some sort of retrofit and/or improvement or at least an exchange (batteries, electronics) solution if they want to keep a reputation (and they will). Right now, the 918 is also some kind of experiment. Porsche has never done such a car before, so they will learn a lot from developing it. I just wish Porsche would develop a solution to remove the hybrid technology from the 918, just in case... Not sure however how viable this is.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    I saw a new, cream boxster with brown roof, wheels and interior yesterday. It was striking. Not everyone's cup of tea, but striking none the less. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Brown wheels!?enlightened


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:

    Brown wheels!?enlightened

    Ouch... Smiley

    I like this one a lot...if my wife gets herself one...this will be it

    box.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Yeah, it had wheels the exact same colour as the roof and it looked like natural brown leather. The cream paint was a real cream. It looked very 1960's italian but it looked good. You'd probably get bored of it and the resale would be hard but it was nice. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    RC, it is not just the batteries that will get better, but the specs and size of electric engines, their integration in the whole car... Beyond just swapping the battery, I don't think Porsche will do anything as far as new development of the 918.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    RC, it is not just the batteries that will get better, but the specs and size of electric engines, their integration in the whole car... Beyond just swapping the battery, I don't think Porsche will do anything as far as new development of the 918.

    So the others like Ferrari and McLaren have the same issues, right? 

    Also, keep in mind that we actually have or had the same situation with regular engines.

    Compare a Ferrari F40 to the latest 458 Italia for example. The 458 easily outruns the F40 but you get two brandnew 458 for a used F40. Smiley Just saying...

    Spare parts? Same situation. There will be companies specialized on special production items.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    MacLaren maybe. Ferrari? They limited the production so much and the performance is very high. So maybe not.

    But the 918 problem is too many cars produced combined with a sticker price too high.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    RC, it is not just the batteries that will get better, but the specs and size of electric engines, their integration in the whole car... Beyond just swapping the battery, I don't think Porsche will do anything as far as new development of the 918.

    The batteries and their respective electronics will see the biggest advancements in the near future, both in performance, capacity and weight. The electric motors are near 100% efficiency, and, in my personal opinion, the advancements in weight and size won´t be so much of an issue on the 918 as on a solely electrical-driven car such as the Tesla.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    As time goes by electric engines will be bigger and/or multiply on the cars (one engine per wheel?). Maybe the thermic engine will not be directly connected to the wheels? Who knows. But technology will march on.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Technology will always march on and further we live the faster it will go. But it is not the reason to say that 918 doesnt cost its money. This car is by far the most advanced and revolutionary today, and as we know it was greatly tested what is awesome for such a product. I dont think that mclaren and ferrari did even 50% together what porsche has done. The reason to pay or not to pay is personal...i see why they ask such money and almost sure that with even with that price thry will loose money on each sold car, thats why they try to gain more in very expensive options.

    Really I dont see why laf and p1 have their price. They share lots of parts from fellow models and if ferrari due to large and formed client base is able to sell all cars, mclaren -cant.
    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Used Enzo sell for more than the price of their new super car... The price of the Ferrari in that regard is a bargain. Performance alone justifies the price premium of the Ferrari over the 918.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Depending on one's point of view, the 918 either is a GREAT bargain or highly overpriced. 

    Porsche developed the 918 before the LaFerrari and the P1, independently. They had a internal target that they want to hit, that's their goal post. Then the Ferrari and McLaren came along and by that time the development of the 918 was well underway, and they either had the performance headroom to gain ground on the other 2 or the other 2 wasn't aiming high enough for their supercar to end up where they will be performance wise.

    Taking into account the technology hurdle Porsche had to jump over in order to develop the 918, the price is actually a bargain. But for people who prefer a traditional internal combustion engine supercar without the high tech stuff, the 918 is a bit over priced with reference to the Carrera GT.

    From Porsche's point of view, they gain nothing developing another IC engine super car, all the technology are readily available already. The 918 project is a challenge for the engineering team, like the old 959 project, building something unknown. Back then it was the twin turbo and awd system, now it's the hybrid technology. In a way it's is completely different than the Carrera GT project too, as the CGT doesn't have any ground breaking technology, Porsche just used everything they already knew to build it.

    Traditionally, Ferrari's supercar kept their value and fetch more than anyone else's, so the expected value of the 918 will not be in the same ballpark as the LaFerrari, but then again Ferrari priced in the initial appreciation already for the LaFerrari, so not sure how much higher can it go. McLaren has only one, F1, as their track record, so the value of P1 is still to be decided, will it appreciate like the F1, not likely, will it appreciate? I think so. But no idea by how much.

    Like Ferrari, McLaren priced in the appreciation factor too, and the 2 of them build a car with a much lower cost than the 918. So both of them will make a healthy profit selling those. 

    Porsche is in a different boat all together, traditionally their supercar do not appreciate much, the 918 won't be any different. I knew that from the beginning and I still buy one simply because I want to reward Porsche with my money for taking the risk and dumping so much technology into a road car. There is simply no equal among the marketplace right now, no other car can even come close to the 918 technology wise. 

    Porsche has and will learn a lot from this project, which means they will make better cars in the future, I guess in a way  I am investing in my future cars with the 918 purchase. 


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

     Nice one Whoopsy,
    Thanks for sharing this thought proces and lines of reasoning with us!

    It's funny to read both your and Futch's trains of thought in this respect. Bith pretty rational (mixed with a bit of emotion), both leading to totally different outcomes, both sounding completely valid, so cudos to both of you!

    Looking forward to reading the follow up posts regarding the ordering and delivery!

    Cheers Joost.


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    You have captured many of my own thoughts too, Whoopsy. I think the 918 is not so much another car but rather a bold self-set challenge that will have knock-on effects in future P-car engineering.

    The thoroughness of development and detail of execution are, IMO, beyond compare. If one is looking for the best hyper-car value, this is not it. Too much of this car is under the surface and not readily appreciated by all.

    I think this car will depreciate simply because 918 units is a rather large volume in this price range. However, there will be a price floor, and I don't think it will be THAT low... There are enough people that will understand what this car is about, and it will always have a special place in the market.

    When the prototype was unveiled in Geneva, it was (for me) an exciting, daring and refreshing statement. That Porsche has bought such an ambitious project to production with such an extensive test program is a great accomplishment.

    On top of all of that, I think this is a beautiful car loaded with Porsche DNA. My favorite is the windscreen & frame, which looks so much like a 904 GTS...

    If I had the discretionary cash to buy one, I would.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    How about I do one better, next when I take delivery of the car I come pick you up and we go for lunch or dinner? 


    Sounds great, would love to meet you in person and discuss the experience of taking delivery etc Smiley


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Some more details from Porsche on the options:

    pic10322.gif

    pic18651.gif

    pic05699.gif


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:

    Brown wheels!?enlightened

    Why not. The brown color combination below looks elegant but also sporty:

    2012-09-07 15.22.15.jpg


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    This is the color my kids call "kaki" (from their childhood)...shit. indecision angry

    Have you ever seen such a color on a Ferrari or Lamborghini? I haven't.

    Brown tones are horrible for a Porsche in my opinion but maybe it is just me...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Good color. I don't see anything wrong here...


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    kudryavchik:

    Good color. I don't see anything wrong here...

    Would you get a brown Porsche then? I know I wouldn't. Never. Smiley

    Well, maybe you would... Smiley (sorry...couldn't resist).

    BrownLada-3.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Umber looks pretty good on Panamera or Cayenne. Much better than white, black or silver IMHO angry


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    Umber looks pretty good on Panamera or Cayenne. Much better than white, black or silver IMHO angry

    Umber...interior maybe. Smiley

    Two years ago, Hertz messed up our reservation and instead of getting a Cadillac Escalade, they gave us a Tahoe. In some sort of metallic brown. You cannot even imagine what my kids did to me, they made so much fun of this car that after three days, I drove back to the Hertz rental location and got myself a Mercedes G-class (luckily I had the cell phone number of an upper management regional Hertz manager, he gave it to us after a bad rental experience where he assisted us in a perfect way). I wouldn't mind brown too much on a rental but I wouldn't buy a brown (or green) car for that matter. I even had some reservations vs. certain silver tones at some point (my father always had silver cars, this was kind of a downer for me).

    Don't get me wrong...to each his own but brown or green for a Porsche? No thanks. I even have my trouble with blue tones.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
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