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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    3 more days to drop, could it get to $50 before the end of 2022?

    The more interesting question: Is it a buy at 50? Smiley Or at 100 maybe.

    2023 is going to be interesting for Tesla.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    3 more days to drop, could it get to $50 before the end of 2022?

    The more interesting question: Is it a buy at 50? Smiley Or at 100 maybe.

    2023 is going to be interesting for Tesla.

     

    The drop has stopped and going back the other way now. 

    Fundamentally, $50 is a fair valuation as mentioned before, already accounting for the growth of car company and their software side of things. It can't go lower than ~$50 as that's the min the company is worth. 

    Think some of the shorts are covering and booking profit for 2022 hence the rise in price.

    Going in to 2023 it is still over valued by about 2x, the risk for Tesla is that if they don't start overhauling their aging cars, they can't be competitive anymore with so much competition. Their only saving grace was that everyone else is running short on parts and can't make enough cars to steal more market share.

    They still carries the title of the quickest EV with the Plaid, but that's about the only title left for them. Longest range went to Lucid, best handling is Taycan, fastest is also Taycan and the best over EV is the Hyundai Ioniq 5 which also shares the quickest charging title with Taycan.

    (yes there is a difference between quickest and fastest. Fastest means highest top speed, quickest means quicker to a certain speed)

     


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    Re: Tesla

    According to the latest Hagerty video, the Tesla Model S Plaid may have lost its title to the quickest EV.

    https://www.hagerty.com/media/videos/racing-the-worlds-quickest-cars-lucid-air-sapphire-vs-bugatti-chiron-vs-tesla-plaid-cammisa...

     

     



    Re: Tesla

    Another example of why Tesla is in trouble as the competition comes on strong.  https://insideevs.com/news/628700/tesla-modelx-vs-rivian-r1s-which-is-best/amp/


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Another example of why Tesla is in trouble as the competition comes on strong.  https://insideevs.com/news/628700/tesla-modelx-vs-rivian-r1s-which-is-best/amp/

    Now if Elon Musk is the genius everybody said he is, he would now dramatically lower the price of current Tesla models and offer the next gen of Tesla models in 2024. It wouldn't be the first time Tesla fights the competition by lowering their prices. The question is: Can Tesla afford it?!

    Of course the competition is gaining momentum, it was to be expected. I still think however that Tesla has a few advantages here but I'm not sure they are going to be able to use them. If Musk doesn't find back to a rational business behavior, his unpredictability could cost him some very bright people at Tesla and other companies of his.   


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    Another improbably rare misstep by Tesla and repairable by OTA?

    Tesla Decides ‘Boring’ Steering Wheel Is Better Than the Yoke After All

    Rob Stumpf

    Tesla Decides ‘Boring’ Steering Wheel Is Better Than the Yoke After All

    via Tesla

    Tesla is finally backing down on its controversial decision to only offer a yoke as a steering wheel in its flagship luxury cars. The automaker just rolled out the option for new car buyers to choose whether their new Model S or Model X is equipped with the yoke or a tried-and-true round steering wheel from the factory.

    This option appeared on Tesla's website late Thursday, replacing the yoke as the default option when configuring a vehicle. The round steering wheel appears to be an updated version similar to the yoke with force-touch buttons and no column-mounted stalks. Swapping between the two options does not appear to affect price or delivery time.

    Claims of safety issues aside, one of the most significant issues with Tesla's decision to offer only a yoke steering wheel is the lack of a variable steering ratio in its cars. Currently, Tesla vehicles are not equipped with steer-by-wire technology, meaning that low-speed maneuvers that typically require hand-over-hand driving techniques can be difficult for new drivers not yet acclimated to the yoke.

    Despite criticism of Tesla, other manufacturers have since warmed up to the decision of a yoke in their own vehicles, but have focused on equipping them with steer-by-wire to address the shortcomings of Tesla's implementation. The upcoming Lexus RZ, for example, has a 150-degree lock-to-lock movement versus the Tesla Model S' nearly 800-degree movement.

    In addition to new vehicles now being offered with a traditional round-style steering wheel, Tesla is also offering a retrofit package for owners who purchased a Model S or Model X with the yoke-style steering wheel. The steering wheel is being offered at $700 and includes installation. Interested buyers can begin placing their orders in March.

    It's not immediately clear why Tesla has started offering a round wheel in the Model S and X with no recent provocation. Musk had previously saidthat there was no chance of a normal steering wheel being offered in place of the yoke, instead saying that the traditional round wheel was "boring" and that "[Full Self-Driving] in panoramic mode looks way better with a yoke."

    Tesla has, however, had ongoing quality issues with its yoke wheels virtually disintegrating within several thousand miles. It is uncertain if the move to a round wheel by default is meant to improve the driving experience, reduce reports of quality issues, or is simply added to expand customer options on its vehicles, but with Tesla looking to reduce complexity in its upcoming refreshed models, it's difficult to picture Tesla offering the option simply to offer it.

    Long live the round steering wheel.

    Got a tip or question for the author? Contact them directly: rob@thedrive.com


    Re: Tesla

    haha this isn't even news.

    Elon has a habit of regretting decisions he made while he was high on weed.

     


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    Re: Tesla

    The Intercept on a Tesla Model S that stopped unexpectedly in San Francisco’s Bay Bridge, resulting in a 9 vehicle pileup on Thanksgiving.  https://theintercept.com/2023/01/10/tesla-crash-footage-autopilot/


    Re: Tesla

    Model Y Performance''s included "Perfornance Brakes" are the Model Y Long Range's breaks but with red brake covers to make them red and "look" bigger indecision

    https://www.carscoops.com/2023/01/tesla-hides-downgraded-2023-model-y-performance-brakes-behind-fancy-red-caliper-covers/


    Re: Tesla

    Bait and switch, one way to improve the bottom line.


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    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    The Intercept on a Tesla Model S that stopped unexpectedly in San Francisco’s Bay Bridge, resulting in a 9 vehicle pileup on Thanksgiving.  https://theintercept.com/2023/01/10/tesla-crash-footage-autopilot/

     

    I am impressed! FSD can do road rage brake check all by itself!


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    CGX car nut:

    The Intercept on a Tesla Model S that stopped unexpectedly in San Francisco’s Bay Bridge, resulting in a 9 vehicle pileup on Thanksgiving.  https://theintercept.com/2023/01/10/tesla-crash-footage-autopilot/

     

    I am impressed! FSD can do road rage brake check all by itself!

    Squirrel!



    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    https://www.torquenews.com/14335/family-four-survives-250-foot-fall-tesla-vehicle

    Call one silly, but one would expect that an initial step towards self-driving would involve preventing the car from running through a red light, hitting a barrier, or driving off a 250 foot cliff. 


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:
    Leawood911:

    https://www.torquenews.com/14335/family-four-survives-250-foot-fall-tesla-vehicle

    Call one silly, but one would expect that an initial step towards self-driving would involve preventing the car from running through a red light, hitting a barrier, or driving off a 250 foot cliff. 

    The father driving the car tried to kill his family and himself. He is now in jail. Thank god for the car. 
    I would imagine he picked the cliff specifically to do the job and went over with as much speed as possible.  It is as terrifying as it looks in the pictures. 
    Pretty sure Elon decided to build the worlds safest cars when he was all stoned and paranoid of injuring himself. Yeah, that’s a fun fact. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:
    Leawood911:

    https://www.torquenews.com/14335/family-four-survives-250-foot-fall-tesla-vehicle

    Call one silly, but one would expect that an initial step towards self-driving would involve preventing the car from running through a red light, hitting a barrier, or driving off a 250 foot cliff. 

    The father driving the car tried to kill his family and himself. He is now in jail. Thank god for the car. 
    I would imagine he picked the cliff specifically to do the job and went over with as much speed as possible.  It is as terrifying as it looks in the pictures. 
    Pretty sure Elon decided to build the worlds safest cars when he was all stoned and paranoid of injuring himself. Yeah, that’s a fun fact. 

     

    Have any data supporting that claim? Like did other cars tried the same drop and the occupants didn't survive?

    If it was THAT safe, that FSD or Autopilot would have stopped the car before it crashed through hither barrier and dropped down. I mean, the car has maps which already indicated there is a cliff..........

    As for other parts of 'safe', don't think any other car under advanced cruise control or even 'self driving' had ever plowed into emergency vehicles.......heck, Teslas think it's a sport to hit stationary emergency vehicles. Perhaps Mario Kart was playing?


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    Re: Tesla

    Ah, I see you are expert at cliff jumping (Pikes Peak - did you not know it was there using GPS?) and at asking critical questions and flushing out the facts most important to this story. A suicidal person tried to kill his entire family by gunning his car over a cliff so it makes sense to blame the Tesla for allowing it to happen rather than marvel at the miracle that they survived.  You are a serious person and no one can pull the wool over your eyes.  Perhaps give it a try in one of your cars. Pick any one of them.  Obviously it is no big drop from your perspective. You are probably correct
    https://youtu.be/IF0gnnMgPW8

    obviously  I don’t want you to drive off a cliff Again!  Be safe, buy a Tesla. You know you want that Plaid. 


    Re: Tesla

    And who is to say they won't survive like this in another car? 

    So basically you have no data about Tesla being the 'safest'. 

    Sorry.

    If Elon says so doesn't means it's actually true you know.


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    Re: Tesla

    Leawood, btw, did you know Tesla's been quietly reducing standard content in their car?

    You had an older one, like you still get 2 nozzles in your windshield sprayer. New ones comes only with one. 

    You likely also have a centre console tray? New cars don't come with one anymore.

    You got piano black door switches? Elon has ditched those for some cheap basic plastic now.

    Not to mention they are putting fake bigger caliper covers on the rear brake to pretend they are the performance brakes Smiley

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Have you noticed Porsche interiors over the last 40+ years?  
    sounds like the most profitable car companies do smart things. 
    Except Tesla keeps adding tons of new free features and improving functionality and safety for current owners. And they don’t have asshole dealers with prices all over the board.  
     

    arguing about Tesla not being safe because other cars might be able to survive that crash is insane. 
     


    Re: Tesla

    PAG went very cheap with 992 too...not to defend Tesla but others are doing the same, charge more give less...


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    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014

    Cayenne Coupe Turbo 2020


    Re: Tesla

    “Tesla slashes [UK] price of Model 3 and Y in move that will damage used prices further”

    • Model 3 and Y prices dropped overnight in shock move by Tesla
    • Impact on used Tesla prices could be severe as they’re already freefalling
    • 16,000 buyers who bought at old price in December have ‘no redress’

    (Friday 13th January 2023)

    Tesla has slashed the price of its Model 3 and Model Y in a move that is likely to see used prices plummet even further.

    Tesla has announced it has dropped the price of the Model 3 from a starting price of £51,090 to £42,990 – a near 16 per cent drop.

    The Model Y Performance variant – the most expensive in the range – has dropped overnight from a starting price of £67,990 to £57,990 – a near 15 per cent price cut.

    All versions of the Model 3 and Y have dropped similar levels.

    Customers who ordered the car at the old price will be forced to stick with that pricing if they have confirmed an order, explained motor trade legal experts Lawgistics.

    A spokesperson for Lawgistics told Car Dealer that unless Tesla offers a ‘John Lewis style price drop refund’ there is nothing customers can do unless they cancel the order under Distance Selling Regulations and join the back of the queue.

    In China, there were protests after Tesla buyers missed out on similar price cuts there. Buyers are demanding compensation for the electric car manufacturer.

    Tesla buyers can cancel orders and take advantage of new prices, say legal experts

    On the UK price drops, Tesla said in a statement: ‘Our focus on continuous product improvement through original engineering and manufacturing processes have further optimised our ability to make the best product for an industry-leading cost. 

    ‘As we exit what has been a turbulent year of supply chain disruptions, we have observed a normalisation of some of the cost inflation, giving us the confidence to pass these through to our customers. 

    ‘As local vehicle production continues to increase and we gain further economies of scale globally, we are making Model 3 and Model Y even more accessible across EMEA.   

     ‘In the UK, Model 3 now starts from £42,990 and Model Y starts from £44,990.’

    The price drop is likely to seriously affect used Tesla prices which are already in free fall.

    Car Dealer reported earlier this week data from used car pricing experts Cap HPI which shows used Tesla prices are in freefall.

    Top 10 biggest depreciating used EVs 2022 

    Prices for used models 12 months old with 10k miles from Cap HPI

    1. Tesla Model 3 -23%
    2. Tesla Model S -22%
    3. Audi e-Tron -15%
    4. Jaguar I-Pace -14%
    5. Tesla Model X -13%
    6. Mercedes EQC -13%
    7. Smart ForFour Electric -10%
    8. Audi e-Tron Sportback -9%
    9. BMW i3 -8%
    10. Renault Zoe -8%

    The Model 3 has lost 23 per cent in the last year, dropping £9,900. 

    In the last three months alone the Model 3 has dropped 15 per cent, while the Model S (8.9 per cent) and Model X (four per cent) have also seen values tumble during that period.

    As of this month, the cumulative loss for the last 12 months means the Model S has lost £17,916, the Model X £12,829 and the Model 3 £9,900.

    The Model Y – introduced in March 2022 – has fared better over the year with values currently up 11.2 per cent over the same 12-month period. However, this latest price drop is likely to undo that performance.

    Cap HPI data experts told Car Dealer this morning that they will be urgently assessing the likely impact on used Tesla values this price cut will have.

    Derren Martin, director of valuations, said: ‘If it encourages buyers into a new Tesla rather than a used one, with the volumes being re-marketed there could be a further impact on used prices, which are already under considerable pressure.’

    Tom Barnard, editor of Electrifying.com added: ‘This is great news for those considering buying a new or used Tesla as they are now much more affordable.

    ‘But if I was one of the 16,000 buyers who took delivery in the record month of December then I would be seriously upset. We saw riots in China when they dropped the price of Teslas and I am sure we’ll see angry reaction here too.

    ‘This is bound to cause more turbulence for used Tesla prices. It leads to uncertainty and higher finance costs.’

    Link: https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/tesla-slashes-price-of-model-3-and-y-in-move-that-will-damage-used-prices-further/277651

    Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Leawood, btw, did you know Tesla's been quietly reducing standard content in their car?

    You had an older one, like you still get 2 nozzles in your windshield sprayer. New ones comes only with one. 

    You likely also have a centre console tray? New cars don't come with one anymore.

    You got piano black door switches? Elon has ditched those for some cheap basic plastic now.

    Not to mention they are putting fake bigger caliper covers on the rear brake to pretend they are the performance brakes Smiley

     

     

    You forgot the lack of parking sensors in new cars...and the camera backed up parking "sensing" system doesn't really work yet properly.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    Lol. For two of the three years of ownership I could have sold my used Tesla for a profit. Best resale values ever. Along comes the government and offers incentives - which is part of the big price drop. Perhaps this explains why there were few sales in the 4 th quarter. Smart people waited. Tesla even offered extra discounts to move cars in the fourth quarter. 
    So help me understand - lower prices are somehow bad for consumers?  Do we not want to offend people who decided to buy at a higher price for whatever reason?  I am baffled. Talk about trying too hard to complain about something. How about a story about each person paying a different price for the same car at the same time from all the other auto makers?  That would piss me off a lot more.  
    prices are cheap, repairs are cheap - go buy one and enjoy. Crazy complaints are boring. 
    btw after 47 k miles and three years my car is worth $10k less than I paid. I added tires and windshield fluid. 
     

    anyone care to discuss cost of ownership of all other brands. I did not think so. 
     


    Re: Tesla

    SmileyMaybe look at all the new features a 2012 Tesla has received over the years for free and still counting. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Have you noticed Porsche interiors over the last 40+ years?  
    sounds like the most profitable car companies do smart things. 
    Except Tesla keeps adding tons of new free features and improving functionality and safety for current owners. And they don’t have asshole dealers with prices all over the board.  
     

    arguing about Tesla not being safe because other cars might be able to survive that crash is insane. 
     

     

    That was a once in a million chance that they had survived the fall, it's just luck. To say Tesla is the safest car just because they had survived is absurd. 

    But then again, that's how Elon does things. 

    As for Tesla 'keep adding features'. Well no, that's another fake news. Those aren't 'new' features. Capability was already baked into the car, they just finally got around to write the software to use them. It's not like suddenly via OTA they give you new hardware. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    the-missile:

    PAG went very cheap with 992 too...not to defend Tesla but others are doing the same, charge more give less...

     

    Haha not even news. Porsche had always done things that way, at least one has the option to add better interior. 

    Porsche interior is lovely once someone spend the money to fully deck it out. 

    One reason I am partial to turbo S trim, less boxes for me to check. Smiley


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    Re: Tesla

    TesIa is a car manufacturer with an economic problem... C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    6B2CBD7C-562D-4085-8388-1CF4955A5ECF.jpeg

    ...demand for TesIa is less than existing supply (e.g. 2022 Q4 deliveries of 405k vs Q4 production of 439k) while competition is increasing and the economy is heading into a recession! Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Think about having purchases a new Model Y days before the $13k price cut.  Additionally, the new price means that the Model Y now qualifies for the $7,500 U.S. EV tax credit, so some owners have lost over $20k on their purchase in a matter of days.  That leaves a nice feeling for a new owner.


     
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