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    sad sighting...

    I travelled the A96 in Germany today, an autobahn in the south of Germany. All the way there was heavy rain, visibility was poor and spray behind the cars massive.

    Shortly before the town of "Buchloe" (where Alpina is located), I got into a traffic jam, just after overtaking a fire brigade car with flashing lights. Reason for that was an accident, where only one car was involved: a white Porsche 996 GT3 (maybe RS, I couldn't see properly). It was a white car with red rims and red GT3-writing on the sides. It all happened in a slight left curve. Car was totally wrecked, airbags exploded, front totally crashed, turned around its axle with front facing towards the traffic and located across the crash barrier. As there were no other cars around, the reason for the accident obviously were too high speeds for too poor weather conditions.

    Hope the passengers survived without severe injuries.

    I just wanted to tell you that short story, that you all be aware how fast things can happen and keep in mind always to drive save and within your, your car's and the whole cirumstance's limits.

    Re: sad sighting...

    Wow, I certainly hope the passengers involved in the accident are alright.

    Re: sad sighting...

    thanx Rossi reminders can save lives sometimes

    Re: sad sighting...

    PSM might have helped too.

    Re: sad sighting...

    this one had less luck and the driver didn't survive : click here

    Re: sad sighting...

    It was a GT3RS and the driver was killed. German press note from another posting:

    traurige Nachricht....er war auf dem Weg zum Sportfahrtraining auf der Nordschleife...

    .......................................

    Dienstag, 19. April 2005
    Tragischer Unfall auf der A96

    Auf der A 96 ist es heute morgen zu einem tragischen Unfall gekommen.
    Ein 23-Jähriger Mann aus Fürstenfeldbruck verstarb noch an der Unfallstelle.
    Der junge Porsche-Fahrer war nach ersten Ermittlungen offenbar viel zu schnell bei Nässe unterwegs. Auf der Höhe Igling, Landkreis Landsberg, geriet er auf der regennassen Fahrbahn ins Schleudern. Er prallte gegen die Leitplanke und wurde über diese hinauskatapultiert. Nach Auskunft des Notarztes war der Mann sofort tot.
    Am Porsche GT3-RS entstand Totalschaden.

    He was on his way to the Nürburgring.

    Re: sad sighting...

    Texas 911 is right- PSM (if you let it do it's job- which means staying on a light throttle) sometimes (not always) can save lifes.

    GT3, RS and so on are perfect macho cars for perfect macho conditions. Public roads are not perfect conditions.

    You can have all the fun and the freedom to deactivate it at the same time.

    I hope that 997 GT3 will be equiped with PSM.
    Death isn't macho..

    Re: sad sighting...

    Quote:

    GT3, RS and so on are perfect macho cars for perfect macho conditions. Public roads are not perfect conditions.



    at least not in the wet. the RS is VERY tricky then.
    when it's raining, i'm nearly driving slower than some trucks on the autobahn. so IMO you don't need ESP (PSM), you have to be aware of the car.
    just push the car and think "i've got no idea what i'm doing here but PSM will safe me anyway" isn't better either.

    anyhow, this is really sad.

    Re: sad sighting...

    Quote:
    zoltan said:
    GT3, RS and so on are perfect macho cars for perfect macho conditions.



    Nonsense.

    GT3 and GT3RS are proper driver's car. And a proper driver knows how to drive in the wet or as Zzoba wrote knows his limitations and takes it easy.
    Porsche underestimated the success of the GT3 which is why IMO the next one might be fitted with PSM as RC stated.

    Re: sad sighting...

    I would have thought the tyres didn't help either in such conditions if the car was on slicks?

    Re: sad sighting...

    Quote:
    blueflame said:
    It was a GT3RS and the driver was killed. German press note from another posting:

    traurige Nachricht....er war auf dem Weg zum Sportfahrtraining auf der Nordschleife...

    .......................................

    Dienstag, 19. April 2005
    Tragischer Unfall auf der A96

    Auf der A 96 ist es heute morgen zu einem tragischen Unfall gekommen.
    Ein 23-Jähriger Mann aus Fürstenfeldbruck verstarb noch an der Unfallstelle.
    Der junge Porsche-Fahrer war nach ersten Ermittlungen offenbar viel zu schnell bei Nässe unterwegs. Auf der Höhe Igling, Landkreis Landsberg, geriet er auf der regennassen Fahrbahn ins Schleudern. Er prallte gegen die Leitplanke und wurde über diese hinauskatapultiert. Nach Auskunft des Notarztes war der Mann sofort tot.
    Am Porsche GT3-RS entstand Totalschaden.

    He was on his way to the Nürburgring.


    So sad to hear that, even if it was the driver's fault. Must have happened just minutes before I passed the scene...

    Re: sad sighting...

    poor fellow.

    a gt3 rs, the temper of a 23year old, semislicks, massive rain and high speed just aint the right combination...

    Re: sad sighting...

    Quote:
    turbolite said:
    poor fellow.

    a gt3 rs, the temper of a 23year old, semislicks, massive rain and high speed just aint the right combination...



    You are right! It's foolish... what a silly boy!

    Re: sad sighting...

    Quote:
    You are right! It's foolish... what a silly boy!



    it may seem obvious -- but since none of us was actually there when it happened, we should not give a judgement to easily. let's just learn from it... and not insult the victim.

    he paid a high price anyway.

    Re: sad sighting...

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    You are right! It's foolish... what a silly boy!


    let's just learn from it... and not insult the victim.

    he paid a high price anyway.



    You are also right! It's sad! It would be interesting, why this guy seemed to drive a "private race" towards the race track. Poor parents! Please excuse my "judgement", I've lost a friend because of "need-for-speed-guy", who lost the control of his car (not a Porsche).

    Re: sad sighting...

    Sorry guys,

    it is out of respect for me not to do some technological or automotive chit-chat when someone has died.

    No matter if he afforded the car himself or borrowed it from somebody else, this is indeed a sad thing.

    It did not sound as if he was wearing his seatbelt, which would make it even more tragic. After all I don't want anybody to experience someting like this, neither as a bypasser nor as the victim. The fact that he was going to driverstraining at the N'ring makes me believe that he must have been pretty responsible with his car after all - no macho!

    Re: sad sighting...

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Quote:
    zoltan said:
    GT3, RS and so on are perfect macho cars for perfect macho conditions.



    Nonsense.

    GT3 and GT3RS are proper driver's car. And a proper driver knows how to drive in the wet or as Zzoba wrote knows his limitations and takes it easy.
    Porsche underestimated the success of the GT3 which is why IMO the next one might be fitted with PSM as RC stated.




    "Macho" doesn't mean "not proper". Why do you confuse things?

    It means having huge balls to drive a GT3 fast under all conditions.

    If the only way to drive a GT3 RS in wet conditions is "driving slower than some trucks" that means that
    either you are driving a proper driver's car under it's limits or you don't have the skill.

    If you are faster under THESE conditions with a basic 997 that means something...

    I know hundreds of drivers who are really fast in dry tarmac but slow in the wet. Me too.


    In these cases PSM helps...

    Re: sad sighting...

    Quote:
    zoltan said:
    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Quote:
    zoltan said:
    GT3, RS and so on are perfect macho cars for perfect macho conditions.



    Nonsense.

    GT3 and GT3RS are proper driver's car. And a proper driver knows how to drive in the wet or as Zzoba wrote knows his limitations and takes it easy.
    Porsche underestimated the success of the GT3 which is why IMO the next one might be fitted with PSM as RC stated.



    If the only way to drive a GT3 RS in wet conditions is "driving slower than some trucks" that means that
    either you are driving a proper driver's car under it's limits or you don't have the skill.

    I know hundreds of drivers who are really fast in dry tarmac but slow in the wet. Me too.




    Zoltan,

    I disagree, it doesn't necessarily mean you don't have the skills.

    Here's a secret, 99% of drivers are fast on the dry and slow on the wet, incl. you and me, as you wrote.
    And trust me, if I was the proud owner of a GT3RS (I wish! ) I'd be the slowest guy on the motorway on the wet
    You should check the archive back a few years and dig the picture of my 996 after my wet motorway crash.
    And yes, it's got PSM AND 4WD! And no, I didn't drive fast nor stupidly, ask RC, it was an aquaplanning.
    [censored] happens...

    PSM helps but it can also give you false confidence.

    Re: sad sighting...

    "If the only way to drive a GT3 RS in wet conditions is "driving slower than some trucks" that means that
    either you are driving a proper driver's car under it's limits or you don't have the skill.

    If you are faster under THESE conditions with a basic 997 that means something... "

    Every basic 997 with stock tyres is under these conditions faster than a GT3RS with sport tyres. That has nothing to do with driving skills, just physics.

    Re: sad sighting...

    i agree francois

    and zoltan, if you quote me, please quote me fully. i wrote "NEARLY driving slower than trucks ON THE AUTOBAHN"... mainly bc of aquaplaning, which the RS is very vulnerable to. PSM wouldn't help much IMHO.

    Re: sad sighting...

    Really sorry to hear about what happened.
    I took some pics of a GT3 Monday while at my detailers.

    Re: sad sighting...

    2

    Re: sad sighting...

    3

    Re: sad sighting...

    Ups you're absolutely right Fanch, I meant psm.
    Again very sad, R.I.P.

    Re: sad sighting...

    Yea proper drivers and such, but even Schumacher crashes sometimes.

    Re: sad sighting...

    When you drive into an unforeseen puddle and start aquaplanning that's it. One of the scariest experiences in my driver life. 11 years ago I made the connaissance of a puddle on the A9 at 120kmh speed in slight rain, in a C4. Nothing bad happened but it scared the bejesus out of me. Since then I'm driving like a chicken in the wet (the chicken size being directly proportional to the tire width), usually being drenched in sweat after long rainy motorway drives due to the brutal concentration.

    R.I.P. It could hit anyone.

    Re: sad sighting...

    I must say that I am surprised by all this "critical cooler talk". None of you were there, most of you are making random assumption no matter how plausible they might seem. Fact is it is tragic and a wasted loss.

    Re: sad sighting...

    Quote:
    TEE1 said:
    I must say that I am surprised by all this "critical cooler talk". None of you were there, most of you are making random assumption no matter how plausible they might seem. Fact is it is tragic and a wasted loss.



    Not such a random assumption! For those who don't read German, a newspaper report on this accident was quoted above in which the police were quoted as saying that "the accident was a result of travelling much too fast for the wet conditions".
    (From my observation, German Autobahn police are not as inclined as their colleagues in other more speed-restrictd countries to blindly blame all highway accidents on "excessive speed" regardless of circumstances, and they generally carry out a thorough survey of the site, measuring any skid marks found, etc. as a basis for analysing the true cause of the accident).

    I remember being told by a top class racing driver (ex-F1 and top GT classes) that he was amazed at how many drivers passed him on German Autobahns when he slowed down in heavy rain. His conclusion was that the other guys just didn't realize how much the conditions would affect their cars' ability to brake and maneuver in an emergency situation. He was no wimp or chicken. He just had not only more skill, but also better judgement than the other guys.
    (This last sentence is not in any way meant to be my personal comment on the GT3 driver concerned above).

    Re: sad sighting...

    I would also like to add that to me (and probably some others as well) the idea that something really bad (like death!) could happen in a car is somehow awkward - and that is very probably a mistake! when i drive in the rain in my tt it always feels very safe and cosy (I'm no lame duck driver nor a crazy racer). i think that's actually almost more dangerous than in a sporty model like a gt3, where one is kept on his toes all the time. like on my bike, where the feeling of the elements are very evident and the fear to crash is constantly present, one's bones beeing at risk in a very exposed way. you never fall asleep on a superbike! but it doesnt avoid that you crash when you go overboard..

    Re: sad sighting...

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    i agree francois

    and zoltan, if you quote me, please quote me fully. i wrote "NEARLY driving slower than trucks ON THE AUTOBAHN"... mainly bc of aquaplaning, which the RS is very vulnerable to. PSM wouldn't help much IMHO.



    I'm sorry to hear that about this 23-year old boy, just think about how his parents must feel now.
    I live not far away from where the accident happened and the A96 is a very dangerous Autobahn due to the many curves. When dry, this is a great location to do very high speeds but even experienced drivers get sweaty hands because the A96 really is not the "straight ahead for miles" road like others.
    Today it rained a lot over here in Germany, like the days before. I drove on the Autobahn in my 997 Carrera S at a max. speed of 135-140 kph due to the weather conditions. Visibility was still OK but I felt how my car started to "swim". ANYBODY driving faster than 100-120 kph in a GT3 RS with the original tire setup must be inexperienced or insane or both. A friend I know went at the same day to the Nordschleife too for the same sportscar training. He has a variety of Porsche cars at his disposal and he is young too. He usually drives in his highly modified GT3 to such events but because of the heavy rains, he chose a PSM equipped car to join the sportscar training and he left his GT3 at home. Nothing more to say...everybody is responsible for his own fate but to be honest: I doubt that the 23-year old paid himself for his GT3 RS (pretty seldom in Germany), so I guess he got it from his parents. I would never give a 23-year old a GT3 RS in his hands but I don't want to start to blame the parents now because they already blame themselves, I'm pretty sure about it.
    That said, it was a very sad day.

     
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