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    BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    From CAR magazine, pretty impressive specsSmiley

    I only hope they make it sound like a proper V8 and not that quasi flat crank sound of the X5/X6 M:

    BMW will launch the new M5 in 2011, the super saloon variant of the F10-series new 5-series family. Our artist's impression reveals how the hot Five will look at launch next March, after a show debut in late 2010 or early 2011.

    We have the full four-page lowdown from Georg Kacher in the latest January 2010 issue of CAR Magazine, but here are some nuggets to whet your appetite:

    • 4.4-litre V8 bi-turbo
    • 578bhp, 530lb ft (586 PS, 720 nm)
    • 155mph limited top speed
    • 0-62mph 4.4sec
    • Unlimited top speed 188mph

    That direct-injection 4.4 lump is the same engine you'll find under the hood of the X5 M and X6 M, but further tweaked by M Division to liberate more power. Forced induction makes it the first M saloon to be turbocharged.

    Will there be a new BMW M5 Touring?

    Not this time. Dog owners in a rush will have to shop at the neighbouring Audi or Mercedes showrooms for RS and AMG variants.

    We interview Klaus Draeger in the new issue of CAR Magazine, and he discusses the need to downsize and explains how even the new M5 will benefit from Efficient Dynamics.

    New M5 cleans up its act

    Yes, even BMW's fastest saloon now concentrates on lowering its CO2. Internal targets are gunning for a 30% drop in emissions and consumption.

    Find out exactly how BMW has achieved that and read about the latest Munich developments in active aerodynamics in the latest January 2010 issue of CAR Magazine, on sale now.
     

     

    BMWM5_2011_F10.jpg


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    10 PRINT "997.2 Carrera S rules"

    20 GOTO 10

    30 RUN


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    Rumored base price in Germany: below 100000 EUR (incl. 19% VAT). If true, this car could be a huge success. 0-100 kph performance is kind of disappointing though, I suppose the new M5 will be heavier than the old one.

    BMW M is working on a better exhaust sound, maybe the M5 will get it from day 1.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    What it needs is a awd system...........................then PERFECT!!!!!!


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    Whoopsy:

    What it needs is a awd system...........................then PERFECT!!!!!!

    That's called AUDI RS6 Smiley.


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    Ron (Houston):
    Whoopsy:

    What it needs is a awd system...........................then PERFECT!!!!!!

    That's called AUDI RS6 Smiley.

     

     

    Lol, I know, but first the RS6 will never be offered here in Canada, second I do not want to let Piech have anymore of my money, third, seems like I am hooked on BMW now, having an X5 and a 335xi in the garage already, I am still ordering an X6M, so why not a awd M5 to complete the collection :)


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

     interesting info

    I expect 0-200 to be under 13 seconds... it will be very fast after 100


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    Whoopsy:
    Ron (Houston):
    Whoopsy:

    What it needs is a awd system...........................then PERFECT!!!!!!

    That's called AUDI RS6 Smiley.

     

     

    Lol, I know, but first the RS6 will never be offered here in Canada, second I do not want to let Piech have anymore of my money, third, seems like I am hooked on BMW now, having an X5 and a 335xi in the garage already, I am still ordering an X6M, so why not a awd M5 to complete the collection :)

    haha epic collection this will be! I envy your garage already.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
    _____________________________________________________________________
    1984 BMW 323i 5spd 2.3L 141 hp (105 kW) More door. Black on black (parting out) 
    1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
    1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    Thank you, It's only a modest garage compared with a lot of people here. When I first started here I had the CLS55, ML63 and the 997TT in there. Then I picked up the 335xi because of a killer deal BMW was offering, 0% lease for 3 years, with a residual of over 65%, it's just for general run around car. I then sold the ML63 to my brother-in-law last year and picked up the X5 because of the 7-seats. The 335's lease ends this summer so I am looking at replacing it with the X6M. A awd M5 would be perfect to replace the CLS55.


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

     no awd m5 - go for the panamera turbo


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    Haha, I guess you didn't know the story yet. I WAS lusting for a Panamera Turbo until it came out, but then the X6M caught my attention, coupe like profile, 4 seats, 4 doors, awd, 500+hp, and the X6m beat out the Panamera Turbo handily in my mind. 

    VW buying up Porsche didn't help the situation, I don't want to put anymore of my money into Piech wallet.

    Hard to imagine only Piech and his boys thought about awd high performance sedans, are the other manufacturers stupid or something?


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    The Panamera Turbo is an excellent product. Porsche did a marvelous job, technically speaking and the 4WD surely helps to make this car very fast without any major traction problems. Sometimes you can feel how the electronic gizmos are working in the background but most people won't notice it and the Panamera Turbo really is a very fast car.

    What Porsche didn't get right isn't the technology part but the exterior design part but they "did it" with the Cayenne too, so no real surprise here. Apparently it takes Porsche one or two generations before they realize how to perfect a product. Sometimes I even get the feeling that there is some sort of marketing strategy behind this but I could be wrong.

    There are only two major reasons why I've chosen the X5 M over the Panamera: price and size. I still don't like that weird rear of the Panamera and I honestly think that with the next generation Panamera, the rear will be much more stylish and refined. Right now it looks like as if somebody "added" it to the design after the car was ready. Wait...wasn't that exactly what happened ?

    Compared to the new BMW M5, the Panamera Turbo will have two problems: price and size. Well...heard that before, right ?!

    Of course there will be potential Panamera Turbo customers who want something bigger and more offensive, they're not M5 "material". On the other hand, I think that BMW showed with the X5/X6 M what they can do performance- and handling wise, so the M5 will probably outrun the Panamera Turbo on the track, if only by a little margin.

    I always was a loyal Porsche customer and I still love the brand Porsche, I'm not the typical BMW customer, the M3 Cab DKG was only bought for one reason: performance AND enough room in the rear for the kids. The 911 just wasn't the right car for it but the next generation may get more rear room, so it could be an option again.

    Porsche needs to be careful, they have four types of customers: the curious one, the loyal one, the hardcore performance one and the show-off one. If their products start to appeal to the hardcore performance and show-off ones only, this could be a problem. Other "mothers" have beautiful daugthers too and never ever in automobile history were so many other cars available which can actually at least match Porsche products.

    That said, I think Porsche needs to be clear about ONE single thing: since they can't be exclusive anymore with production numbers way over 70000-75000 and maybe more with new products, they need to concentrate on making better products and to keep their prices at bay. Volkswagen will surely want to profit from Porsche and their reputation, putting more and more different (and new) models on the market. I actually don't blame them for doing that but I wish they would be more realistic when it comes to public perception (Panamera and especially the Cayenne) and prices.

    Mercedes sold almost as many S-class limousines in 2008 as Porsche did 2009 with the WHOLE model range. So there is potential and there is a market for the Panamera but Porsche needs to make it more "acceptable" for customers who live in countries where public perception is very important.

    Enough said, I repeat myself over and over again.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

     Next M5 will for sure outrun all major competitors on the track and in acceleration after 100 km/h..

    I guess there will be a lot of tuning kits for it as well as for X5M... RC - would you chip tune you X5M:-)?


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    ha-ha:-))

    go for the RWD M5 - you have enough AWD cars in your garage then. Only RS6 is AWD among competitors and now Panamera Turbo. Wait for PanameraTurbo S then - it will be even smarter car with 550 hp and better handling dynamics...

    if you would like to have even more driving fun with AWD - go for 911 Turbo PDK, Nissan GT-R,  R8 V10 but it another type of car...


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    Whoopsy:

    Haha, I guess you didn't know the story yet. I WAS lusting for a Panamera Turbo until it came out, but then the X6M caught my attention, coupe like profile, 4 seats, 4 doors, awd, 500+hp, and the X6m beat out the Panamera Turbo handily in my mind. 

    VW buying up Porsche didn't help the situation, I don't want to put anymore of my money into Piech wallet.

    Hard to imagine only Piech and his boys thought about awd high performance sedans, are the other manufacturers stupid or something?

     BTW, did you already do a test drive in the Panamera turbo? This might change your concerns about the Panamera a bit. Handling wise the Panamera turbo is really excellent Smiley


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    RC:

     

    Compared to the new BMW M5, the Panamera Turbo will have two problems: price and size. Well...heard that before, right ?!

     

     

    Sadly, this is 100% true Smiley If you compare a full-spec Panamera turbo (approx. 185k Euros in Germany) to the expected base price of the new M5 the gap could not be wider. For similar performance... Might be different in the US though - as the Panamera is sold at quite low prices in the US. Another reason to move to the US Smiley


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    Atzporsche:
    Whoopsy:
    Ron (Houston):
    Whoopsy:

    What it needs is a awd system...........................then PERFECT!!!!!!

    That's called AUDI RS6 Smiley.

     

     

    Lol, I know, but first the RS6 will never be offered here in Canada, second I do not want to let Piech have anymore of my money, third, seems like I am hooked on BMW now, having an X5 and a 335xi in the garage already, I am still ordering an X6M, so why not a awd M5 to complete the collection :)

    haha epic collection this will be! I envy your garage already.

     +1 Smiley


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    artur777:

    I guess there will be a lot of tuning kits for it as well as for X5M... RC - would you chip tune you X5M:-)?

     

    No, I wouldn't. I chiptuned a 996 Turbo once and when the boost pressure suddenly dropped at a speed of over 300 kph in a pretty narrow Autobahn curve from 1.1 bar to 0.2 bar, I almost lost control of the car. It happened only twice and the tuner, a pretty well known chiptuner by that time, didn't have a clue where the problem is.

    After this "cheap" tuning, I had my 996 Turbo tuned at RS Tuning, completely different story. Perfect job, technically speaking.

    Chip tuning ? No thanks. Driving at extremely high speeds over here in Germany, I wouldn't want to put my life in danger, especially since I sometimes have the kids in the car.

    There is however a strong rumor (psssttt...don't tell anyone... Smiley) that M GmbH might come up with a performance pack for the X5/X6 M, lifting the power to 600 HP flat.

    Apparently BMW learned from Porsche, the latest Performance Pack for the X6 5.0i costs around 7000 EUR in Germany. 42 HP more for 7000 EUR incl. some other improvements and incl. a full warranty ? Give it to me, baby. Smiley

    Yes, if BMW offers a performance pack for retrofit (not very likely though at this time), I'm in.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    MKSGR:

     BTW, did you already do a test drive in the Panamera turbo? This might change your concerns about the Panamera a bit. Handling wise the Panamera turbo is really excellent Smiley

     

    I did, kinda of like I am in a bigger 997Turbo, I also LOVE the interior design, one of the best, and the Porsche designers didn't miss any details either. Just an example, when I open the rear door for the first time, I was curious about the little knob next to the seat on the door opening, but when I close the door I realize that little knob is an extension of the arm rest on the door so my elbow rest perfectly. Nice touch.

    Having said all that I still think the price, especially here in Canada, is about 20% too high, plus as I said, I am not giving more of my money to Piech :)

    With the price difference here, after I get the X6M, I still have enough leftover for a Lotus Exige or a Ariel Atom, which will out handle anything in my garage.


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

     performance pack for retrofit - that's great! 7000 euro is ok comparing to Porsches 10-15k euros for x51 

    will it be also retrofit for X5m/x6m?

    then it will be a hit of sales:-)

    I hope next m5 will also have such a performance package:-)


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    Not sure if the PP for the X6 5.0i is retrofittable, I saw this option only for new cars.

    A similar PP is available for the X6 3.5d, power output is a whopping 326 HP, making a 6.5 sec. from 0-100 kph truck out of the X6 Diesel.

    IF a PP is coming for the X5/X6 M, I'm pretty sure it is going to be available for the M5 too.

    What actually surprises me a lot about the 4.4i twin turbo charged engine is the power variation with practically the same engine. 408 HP, 450 HP, 555 HP and 586 HP (M5). This is really interesting and weird at the same time. I wish I knew the precise differences, besides the chargers, of these engines. It IS practically the same engine.


    --
     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    varying the boost pressure, exhaust plumbing, etc.

    Good business practice for BMW to develop one engine and by varying the power output, it adapts to different applications.

    Good news for tuners too, knowing the basic engine has a high output ceiling.


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

     yes tuners will do a blast from x6 50 trying to reach 2011 m5 heights;-))))))))))))


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    Agree with Whoopsy.  If this new M5 is equipped with AWD I'll be all over it.  After experiencing the near record snow fall last Christmas, I will always have two AWD cars in my garage.


    --
     

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS, January build;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe #13;  2006 BMW 530xi


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    I thought that the M engine has different internals than the standard xDrive50i engine.  Maybe I am wrong, but the M definitely have different manifold design and a very high boost.  Anyway, here is a good read about the M engine.

    http://www.ausmotive.com/2009/04/05/bmw-x5m-x6m-and-a-heart-of-gold.html


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    Well, with the introduction of the X5/X6 M, the xDrive technology for the M5 engine is here, BMW just needs to adapt it. Just imagine: a M5 xDrive with 586 HP, under 2000 kg and under 100000 EUR (incl. 19% german VAT). The Cayenne Turbo base price is 135000 EUR over here in Germany. I know that many M customers don't like the idea of a AWD M5 but I guess this isn't much different with the new twin turbo turbo engine.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    WAY:

    I thought that the M engine has different internals than the standard xDrive50i engine.  Maybe I am wrong, but the M definitely have different manifold design and a very high boost.  Anyway, here is a good read about the M engine.

    http://www.ausmotive.com/2009/04/05/bmw-x5m-x6m-and-a-heart-of-gold.html

     

    Thanks. I was just wondering about the basic design of the engine but I guess BMW did a very clever thing, using some sort of a "base engine" and just add/change components for their need (more power, durability, etc.). I bet this saves tons of money, clever move.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    RC:
    WAY:

    I thought that the M engine has different internals than the standard xDrive50i engine.  Maybe I am wrong, but the M definitely have different manifold design and a very high boost.  Anyway, here is a good read about the M engine.

    http://www.ausmotive.com/2009/04/05/bmw-x5m-x6m-and-a-heart-of-gold.html

     

    Thanks. I was just wondering about the basic design of the engine but I guess BMW did a very clever thing, using some sort of a "base engine" and just add/change components for their need (more power, durability, etc.). I bet this saves tons of money, clever move.

    Isn't this what Porsche has been doing for a long time? Smiley For example, the 997.1 Turbo, GT2 and GT3 all got the GT1 derived M64 engine, but with different intake manifolds, titanium internals, etc.


    --

    987 Boxster S, Arctic Silver with 'Martini Racing' Livery, H&R Monotube Coil-Overs, H&R Anti Roll Bars, Strut Brace, FVD ECU, BMC Air Filter, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, Recaro Racing Shells, PSE.

    997 Carrera 4S, Guards Red, Bilstein PSS10 Damptronic, H&R Anti Roll Bars, IPD Plenum, Dension Gateway 500, PSE.


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    bluelines:

    Isn't this what Porsche has been doing for a long time? Smiley For example, the 997.1 Turbo, GT2 and GT3 all got the GT1 derived M64 engine, but with different intake manifolds, titanium internals, etc.

     

    Yes, indeed. There is one difference though: the M64 derived engine or so called Mezger engine was/is very expensive to build. I doubt that BMW went that way, I'm pretty sure that the BMW 4.4 twin turbo engine is one of the most "cost effective" engines of these kind on the market. BMW builds good engines, no doubt about it. One thing which remains to be seen is how reliable this type of engine is on a longterm run.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    RC:
    bluelines:

    Isn't this what Porsche has been doing for a long time? Smiley For example, the 997.1 Turbo, GT2 and GT3 all got the GT1 derived M64 engine, but with different intake manifolds, titanium internals, etc.

    Yes, indeed. There is one difference though: the M64 derived engine or so called Mezger engine was/is very expensive to build. I doubt that BMW went that way, I'm pretty sure that the BMW 4.4 twin turbo engine is one of the most "cost effective" engines of these kind on the market. BMW builds good engines, no doubt about it. One thing which remains to be seen is how reliable this type of engine is on a longterm run.

     

    True. I guess Porsche went down the A91 engine route for the same cost (and environmental) reasons, and there are similar questions about the reliability for track use and/or long-term use. Time will tell Smiley


    --

    987 Boxster S, Arctic Silver with 'Martini Racing' Livery, H&R Monotube Coil-Overs, H&R Anti Roll Bars, Strut Brace, FVD ECU, BMC Air Filter, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, Recaro Racing Shells, PSE.

    997 Carrera 4S, Guards Red, Bilstein PSS10 Damptronic, H&R Anti Roll Bars, IPD Plenum, Dension Gateway 500, PSE.


    Re: BMW M5 (2011): new F10 super saloon scooped

    A91 should be reliable or Porsche image would suffer greatly

     
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