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    Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Sorry that Porsche disappointed some of you, guys. Including me from a certain point of view.
    But get real: a lot of people are happy with what they get regarding the 997 Turbo. And furthermore, some even expected worse.

    Don't worry, I won't bother you again with a long and boring statement, just one last thing: Porsche did not make the manual slowlier than the Tiptronic by purpose.
    It just happened during development and two factors seem to play a key role: the new VTG technology and the networked electronics system of the TT.

    Get over it: the Tip is faster and the PDK will be faster than manual too, incl. the "auto" mode.
    7.8 seconds from 0-100 mph. For an auto tranny car a spectacular figure.

    And finally, regarding track racing: rumors indicate that test drivers were always faster with the Tiptronic during track testing, with one exception (I don't know if by this exception our source meant the driver or a specific track).

    So get over it, I have to get over it too: Tip is faster. Period. As soon as the "shock wave" is over, we should ask ourselves if it really matters. Because a sequential shifting system offers only two pedals (brake, throttle) too and it can be switched from manual to auto and back again. Of course the Tiptronic is no sequential shifting system and it may not shift as fast as one. But using the manual mode of the Tiptronic is not much different, viewed as a picture, than using the manual mode of a sequential shifting system. So whoever says manual is more fun, should keep his hands off any sequential shifting system, incl. PDK. Because the only REAL difference drivers will notice is actually the shifting time.

    So if you're buying the new 997 Turbo or not, this is your personal decision. But do you know many cars on the street which can hit 60 mph/100 kph in 3.4/3.7 seconds EACH and EVERY time from standstill? I don't. Yes, I'm still not happy with what Porsche brought up. But it could have been worse and I still hope that it is more fun to drive in reality than I can imagine right now. Tiptronic? So be it. But my wife never gets to drive this car.

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Well in all fairness, as there is no conspiracy, I dont know why ppl are upset, if you want a manual, great, the performance for that is staggering anyway, but can we really be upset that the auto performs so admirably? If you want ultimate thrills, then clearly the PDK will be the way to go, but hey, just be happy that porsche whips the chevy, the ferrari and lambo with an autobox! lol. Its a spectacular car guys! 7.8 to 100 is NOT slow!!!

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    AT LAST ,, I said yesterday what do people want . This cookie is going to cut the cake in man or tip form . On paper from what I have seen its quicker than the F430 , what more does everyone want ...

    throt..

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Don't worry, I won't bother you again with a long and boring statement



    Lmao , that tickled me RC and jeeezz did you have the b*ll*ck ache yesterday , glad your more positive tonight bud .. Also dont be orrible to the Mrs , you drive her Boxster ...

    throt...

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    RC said:
    So if you're buying the new 997 Turbo or not, this is your personal decision. But do you know many cars on the street which can hit 60 mph/100 kph in 3.4/3.7 seconds EACH and EVERY time from standstill?



    Anyone,

    How come 0 to 60 mph is 3.4 secs and 0 to 62 mph is 3.7 secs???

    I know this is nitpicking but that's what everyone's been doing about the Turbo's numbers lately so I'm asking, why a third of a second to gain 0.2 mph?

    Usually, it's 0.2 secs which I found rather long already.

    I mean, shouln't 0 to 60 and 0 to 62 mph times be almost identical? At least to the decimal of second?

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    it may be ugly, but 3.4 is f,g fast., tip for me

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Sorry that Porsche disappointed some of you, guys. Including me from a certain point of view.
    But get real: a lot of people are happy with what they get regarding the 997 Turbo. And furthermore, some even expected worse.

    Don't worry, I won't bother you again with a long and boring statement, just one last thing: Porsche did not make the manual slowlier than the Tiptronic by purpose.
    It just happened during development and two factors seem to play a key role: the new VTG technology and the networked electronics system of the TT.

    Get over it: the Tip is faster and the PDK will be faster than manual too, incl. the "auto" mode.
    7.8 seconds from 0-100 mph. For an auto tranny car a spectacular figure.

    And finally, regarding track racing: rumors indicate that test drivers were always faster with the Tiptronic during track testing, with one exception (I don't know if by this exception our source meant the driver or a specific track).

    So get over it, I have to get over it too: Tip is faster. Period. As soon as the "shock wave" is over, we should ask ourselves if it really matters. Because a sequential shifting system offers only two pedals (brake, throttle) too and it can be switched from manual to auto and back again. Of course the Tiptronic is no sequential shifting system and it may not shift as fast as one. But using the manual mode of the Tiptronic is not much different, viewed as a picture, than using the manual mode of a sequential shifting system. So whoever says manual is more fun, should keep his hands off any sequential shifting system, incl. PDK. Because the only REAL difference drivers will notice is actually the shifting time.

    So if you're buying the new 997 Turbo or not, this is your personal decision. But do you know many cars on the street which can hit 60 mph/100 kph in 3.4/3.7 seconds EACH and EVERY time from standstill? I don't. Yes, I'm still not happy with what Porsche brought up. But it could have been worse and I still hope that it is more fun to drive in reality than I can imagine right now. Tiptronic? So be it. But my wife never gets to drive this car.



    RC,

    I personally always enjoyed your posts and this one is no exception . At times we (Porsche freaks) get emotional and say whatever comes to mind but that doesn't mean we don't love Porsche.

    I did agree with your points and put my 2 cents as well but after all I can't find any other car that matches the new 997TT price wise and performance wise.

    Indeed I'm going to order one too but I'll wait till PDK becomes available and more options as well, that way I can save up some more money too so Porsche AG can enjoy more cash down .

    And last but not least I'm glad that your pumped about the 997TT again .

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    but hey, just be happy that porsche whips the chevy, the ferrari and lambo with an autobox! lol. Its a spectacular car guys! 7.8 to 100 is NOT slow!!!



    It aslo whips the Porsche's manual, which is the dilemma here. And so, we're back to square one.

    You can spin this fiasco any which way, but, at the end of the day, it's going to result in numerous cancellations.

    I don't think this is what Porsche was bargaining for.

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    watt said:
    it may be ugly, but 3.4 is f,g fast., tip for me



    I thought you adored your Chevy. Why the change of heart all of a sudden?

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    RC you forfot to mention one more important thing between the difference of PDK and Auto. Intermidiate throttle while shifing down gears.
    And I am also not sure if with the normal tiptronic even if you use manual mode the gear wont change up if you get to the red line??

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    When I made my 0-100 mph (160 kph) "under 8 seconds" claims a few weeks ago, I actually had some precise numbers. Now I don't know if Porsche decided to use a more conservative claim for their official info or they just used a middle value from several test values but the number I received a few weeks ago was actually more close to the 7 than to the 8. And now I shut up and let the car magazines find out how "conservative" Porsche has been about their factory claims. I still have hopes.

    BUT: yes, 7.8 seconds from 0-100 mph is fast, pretty fast.
    Almost one second faster than the 996 Turbo S.
    2 seconds faster than the F360 Challenge Stradale.
    3 seconds faster than the 997 Carrera S.
    1.6 seconds faster than the old Turbo.
    1.4 seconds faster than the new BMW M5.
    0.6 seconds faster than the Lamborghini Gallardo.
    0.1 seconds faster than the Pagani Zonda S(!!!).
    0.1 seconds faster than the 996 GT2 MkII(!!!).
    0.1 seconds faster than a Sportec tuned 540 HP 996 Turbo.

    I know, I know, just a fraction of a second or "only" a second, two or three difference but hey, we're talking about 0-100 mph performance and this shows how fast the new 997 Turbo actually is.

    And another comparison: even the 612 HP torque monster Mercedes SL 65 AMG is one second slowlier from 0-100 mph.

    But of course the time of 7.8 seconds is a factory claim and we can't be sure about it until we see it. But from Porsche's past and the recent reviews in various car magazines, I think we can assume that 7.8 is a pretty accurate number and we can even expect up to 0.2 seconds less from this time. Hopefully even less.

    And if the 3.7 seconds from 0-100 kph (62 mph) prove to be true, this wouldn't be less impressive. Don't forget: the 3.7 seconds can be achieved by ANYONE at ANYTIME, no need for an experienced clutch/throttle foot and shifter arm.

    Let us see, how many cars did 0-100 kph (62 mph) in 3.7 seconds or even less:

    1. Porsche 997 Turbo Tiptronic
    2. RS-Tuning 996 GT2 with 540 HP (remember: this car is 100 kg lighter)
    3. none tested yet

    Dodge Viper SRT-10: 4.5 seconds (0.8 seconds slowlier)
    996 GT2 MkII: 3.8 seconds (0.1 seconds slowlier)
    Sportec tuned 996 Turbo with 540 HP: 3.9 seconds (0.2 seconds slowlier)
    TTP tuned 996 Turbo with 520 HP: 3.9 seconds (0.2 seconds slowlier)
    Pagani Zonda S: 3.8 seconds (0.1 seconds slowlier)
    Ferrari F430 F1: 4.0 seconds (0.3 seconds slowlier)
    Ford GT: 3.9 seconds (0.2 seconds slowlier)
    BMW M6: 4.2 seconds (0.5 seconds slowlier)

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    0-100 in 7.8 is very fast , coorrr ..

    throt...

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    watt said:
    it may be ugly, but 3.4 is f,g fast., tip for me



    I thought you adored your Chevy. Why the change of heart all of a sudden?



    New month, new car. Right, watt?

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    watt said:
    it may be ugly, but 3.4 is f,g fast., tip for me



    I thought you adored your Chevy. Why the change of heart all of a sudden?



    New month, new car. Right, watt?



    Ain't that the truth?

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Very, very impressive 0-xxx times for 997TT

    However, for those who don't stoplight drag race, would think more relevant accel times are 70-120MPH, 40-70MPH, 100-150MPH+, etc...reflecting real-world situations where one pulls out of a clump of traffic on autobahn/high-speed fwy or comes out of a curve into a straightaway, etc.

    Looking forward to seeing such elasticity metrics of 997TT Tip and manual vs 430 vs Gallardo vs SL65....given the hp/torque bands, I suspect it'll be an interesting straight-line battle btwn 997TT Tip and SL65...

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    RS Tuning-Porsche 911 GT2
    Motorart B 6
    Hubraum 3600 ccm
    Aufladung Turbo
    PS - UMin 542 PS - 7020/Min
    Nm - UMin 755 Nm - 4230/Min
    Motorlage/Antrieb Heckmotor/Heck
    Gänge/Schaltung 6/manuell

    Test in sport auto 8/2002
    Gewicht 1420 kg
    0 - 80 km/h 2,9 s
    0 - 100 km/h 3,7 s
    0 - 120 km/h 5,0 s
    0 - 140 km/h 6,1 s
    0 - 160 km/h 7,3 s
    0 - 180 km/h 9,3 s
    0 - 200 km/h 10,7 s

    Was the performance close to these numbers, RC?

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    In the bigger scheme of things, Maybe the Tiptronic 997TTs superiority will serve as a catalyst to make manual gearbox sports cars unpopular and seemingly obsolete.

    However, Porsche could have fitted the manual gearbox 997TT with a similar acting system of sensors and controls that would mimic the Tiptronic's integration of throttle position, awd traction, road speed and engine speed to help shift quicker and smoother.

    I suspect the new Tiptronic system just merely retards the engines timing for a split second when shifting.

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    However, Porsche could have fitted the manual gearbox 997TT with a similar acting system of sensors and controls that would mimic the Tiptronic's integration of throttle position, awd traction, road speed and engine speed to help shift quicker and smoother.




    They'll do...soon. They call it PDK.

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    I am sorry isn't this discussion bordering on the ridiculous? Who in the hell will be driving those speeds and where? The Autobahn is high speed but on city streets?

    How many of you will track your TT and admit it to Porsche?

    People buy a car for a number of reasons but acceleration performance or Ring time are totally irrelevant unless you plan to stencil those times on the front windshield as a badge of honor. If one car has a one or two sec. better time than another, the world will not end for the slower car.

    BTW FWIW, when I road with Hurley Haywood and Dave Murry I asked them which Porsche would they buy. Each gave me the same answer. Get the Turbo with Tiptronic. I agree with Watt, too bad it is so damn ugly. It almost reminds of a NASCAR. Ugh!

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    However, Porsche could have fitted the manual gearbox 997TT with a similar acting system of sensors and controls that would mimic the Tiptronic's integration of throttle position, awd traction, road speed and engine speed to help shift quicker and smoother.




    They'll do...soon. They call it PDK.



    Any chance you could give us an indication of how "soon ", soon is?

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    Avoe said:
    And I am also not sure if with the normal tiptronic even if you use manual mode the gear wont change up if you get to the red line??



    FYI, on a Sports Chrono equipped 997, sport mode selected, the Tip will hit the rev limiter, not upshift when using the Tip in manual mode. I suspect the Tip in a 997 Turbo to do the same, if you get Turbo Sports Chrono (and why wouldn't you, assuming it's priced about what Sports Chrono is on the 997--do not buy a Tip without it, or you'll be sorry).

    PDK should be better in speed of shifts--being on demand. The Tip can sometime be less than instantaneous in manual mode.

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Any chance you could give us an indication of how "soon ", soon is?



    I'm afraid not soon enough for those who want to enjoy it this year.

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Any chance you could give us an indication of how "soon ", soon is?



    I'm afraid not soon enough for those who want to enjoy it this year.



    Thanks.

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    watt said:
    it may be ugly, but 3.4 is f,g fast., tip for me


    Watt - How is the Z06 wearing for you? Do you still like it? Is steering feel up to snuff?

    Thanks for any thoughts you want to share (and sorry to all who are sick of hearing the Z06 mentioned on this forum, but it's interesting to me to hear from a Porsche/Ferrari owner).

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    official info or they just used a middle value from several test values but the number I received a few weeks ago was actually more close to the 7 than to the 8. And now I shut up



    That number was probably with Sport Chrono Turbo!

    I believe all numbers stated by Porsche is in standard config.

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    but hey, just be happy that porsche whips the chevy, the ferrari and lambo with an autobox! lol. Its a spectacular car guys! 7.8 to 100 is NOT slow!!!



    It aslo whips the Porsche's manual, which is the dilemma here. And so, we're back to square one.

    You can spin this fiasco any which way, but, at the end of the day, it's going to result in numerous cancellations.

    I don't think this is what Porsche was bargaining for.



    This is no fiasco!

    So the engineers did a great job on the tip, should they have de-tuned it so that us manual shifting types wouldn't feel threatened.

    It's getting hilarious.

    (And I can't see many people cancelling over this. The car is a tremendous performer in whichever guise.)

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    I guess I'm too hard headed and old school, but I'll take a manual in a turbo.

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Its one thing to mash on the gas from a standing start in an automatic and have it seamlessly rip through the gears for you. Watching the CL65 at the drag strip is a jaw dropper and the 997tt tip sounds like it will be at least as amazing. However it's quite another matter to hit the gas in an automatic when you're cruising along and have the automatic hesitate for a second or two while it changes gears, as many automatic transmissions do. How will all you tiptronic buyers feel if the 997tt tip has the same hesitation problem as the Cayenne TT? Buying an automatic transmission sight unseen strikes me as risky, unless you trust the official numbers completely and only care about drag racing from a stop.

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Porsche did not make the manual slowlier than the Tiptronic by purpose.
    It just happened during development and two factors seem to play a key role: the new VTG technology and the networked electronics system of the TT.




    Suffice to say, if this is true, how can we guarantee that the PDK will be faster than the TIP?

    Re: Trouble in Paradise, Urban Legends and more...get real

    Drop a gear or two from the steering wheel and off you go

     
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