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    who is going to take the 'ring title - Enzo or CGT?


    Re: who is going to take the 'ring title - Enzo or CGT?

    If there would ever be a Supertest of the Enzo which I dont think there will be,I would have to say the Carrera GT would be the winner due to its vast development testing on the Ring.
    What a Supertest that would be "Enzo vs Carrera GT".
    When they test the Carrera GT I think the stats will read something like this:

    The Ring: 7 min 21s
    Hockenheim: 1.06,8
    0-200-0: 13.9sec (0-200: 9.6s 200-0:4.3s)
    Aerodynamik. 200km/h: front axle +60kg rear axle +140kg
    Maximale Querbeschleunigung: 1,45G
    Slalom: 144km/h
    Ausweichtest: 165km/h




    Re: who is going to take the 'ring title - Enzo or CGT?

    Hey Christian!... Just guessing, or well informed?...
    --Pierre

    Re: who is going to take the 'ring title - Enzo or CGT?

    Tough call.
    The Enzo is such a mean machine tough!
    I don't know. But Ferrari will never allow one of their Enzos to challenge the Ring.
    Hence, the initiative will have to come from a private costumer.
    This will be interesting!
    Fanch.

    Re: who is going to take the 'ring title - Enzo or CGT?

    we should ask jay kay
    he's taken his enzo to goodwood as well.

    Re: who is going to take the 'ring title - Enzo or CGT?

    The WOW factor is on the Ferrari side. The Enzo has more exoctic lines than the GT, but I would bet the Porsche to win the "ring title".

    J.Seven

    Re: who is going to take the 'ring title - Enzo or CGT?

    Walter Roehrl's (professional german race car driver and official Porsche test driver) best time on the Nordschleife in a Carrera GT has been 7 min. 37 sec.!
    He claims that he didn't try too hard to reach that time.
    The traction control on the Carrera GT is actually almost ESP/PSM like, a very refined system to make it possible for "normal" people to drive the Carrera GT too.
    Walter Roehrl claims 5 seconds more for the Nordschleife with traction control enabled, a very good time.

    Re: who is going to take the 'ring title - Enzo or CGT?

    Mercedes claims that the SLR has made test runs on the Ring
    in 7 min 30s during development,and with the weight it carries around thats very impressive.
    If the Carrera GT doesn`t beat the SLR by at least 6-9s I will be very dissapointed considering the weight and altogether different type of car it actually is.
    If a "Normal 911 Gemballa or Techart can do it in 7 min 30s on normal tires NOT cup tires.) the Carrera GT surely has to be able to outrun them easily.It is supposed to be their masterpiece for goods sake.
    I believe the new GT2 will run somewhere in the region of
    7.35-7.39.

    Speaking of ring times...

    How much faith do you all have in the Track Challenge database of times at the N-ring and Hockenheim?

    http://www.track-challenge.com

    Or is there another web source with good track time information?

    Re: Speaking of ring times...

    They are correct.
    The laptimes originate from the magazine Sport Auto.

    Re: Speaking of ring times...

    Quote:
    They are correct.
    The laptimes originate from the magazine Sport Auto.


    Well, if the source is Sport Auto than I'm not sure if the source is reliable ...
    Quite some inconsistencies. What I'd like to see is the raw data that comes directly from the data logger. I know some people that tried to reproduce Sport Auto results but had no success at all.

    Cheers
    Thomas

    Re: Speaking of ring times... [breaking vs. lateral accel.]

    Very interesting site. Thanks for the pointer.

    Browsing through the 'top 10' I noticed something which I find surprising: The top deceleration of all these cars is given as 1.2g, while the top lateral acceleration is quoted as 1.6g.

    Now, if these numbers are correct, then from my naive point of view, I'd reckon that there is still room for quite an improvement in the efficiency of brakes.

    Or, if braking systems are already near their optimum, the numbers above would seem to indicate, that tires provide more friction laterally than in the driving direction. This seems counter-intuitive, since the tire area touching the ground is the same in both cases.

    Hmm, or could the pressure applied to the outer wheels in a curve be higher than the pressure on the front wheels during a brake?

    Curious,

    mk

    Re: who is going to take the 'ring title - Enzo or CGT?

    Hi Guys!

    The Ring record now belongs to the awesome Radical SR3 Turbo who posted an unbelievable 7 min. 19 sec. lap!

    Radical Nordschliefe info

    Re: Speaking of ring times...

    Quote:
    Quote:
    They are correct.
    The laptimes originate from the magazine Sport Auto.


    Well, if the source is Sport Auto than I'm not sure if the source is reliable ...
    Quite some inconsistencies. What I'd like to see is the raw data that comes directly from the data logger. I know some people that tried to reproduce Sport Auto results but had no success at all.

    Cheers
    Thomas



    It really depends how the lap times are calculated.
    Some take lap times from standstill and some use a "flying" start. Of course the flying start produces much better lap times.

    Re: the result... in 2 weeks!

    german magazine "auto motor und sport" is taking the enzo, the CGT and the gallardo to the ring in the next issue. it'll be on newsstands on september 3, 2003.

    two weeks...

    Re: Speaking of ring times... [breaking vs. lateral accel.]

    mk

    I went and had a look at the Motec data logging from my Lotus Exige race car and found similar results (both on slicks and on Formula-R road tyres, on several circuits). Max Lateral G is always higher than Max Longditudinal G in the same proportions you described. I think it's due to a couple of factors:

    - suspension design optimises the tyres contact patch & weight transfer as the car rolls through a corner, giving more grip than when it is pitched during braking. The weight transfer of the car is ultimately what determines how much grip each tyre has, and it usually is more evenly spread during cornering.

    - aero grip plays a part when cornering at speed (not as big an effect as aero grip also helps during the initial braking phase, though this is when the brakes work the hardest and the cars weight may not have transfered onto the front wheels to give max Long G)

    Matt

    Re: the result... in 2 weeks!

    Quote:
    german magazine "auto motor und sport" is taking the enzo, the CGT and the gallardo to the ring in the next issue. it'll be on newsstands on september 3, 2003.

    two weeks...



    Er, isn't it the Murcielago?

    sr

    Re: the result... in 2 weeks!

    thanks zzboba. never seen that magazine in the u.s. and would really apprecitate if you would share the results.

    Re: the result... in 2 weeks!

    FYI:
    it is the Gallardo: view preview

    As the magazin isn't available in the US, as further information: the URL will be moved September 1 to:
    www.auto-motor-und-sport.de

    Greetz,
    Getaway

    Re: the result... in 2 weeks!

    Quote:
    german magazine "auto motor und sport" is taking the enzo, the CGT and the gallardo to the ring in the next issue. it'll be on newsstands on september 3, 2003.

    two weeks...



    It will be interesting to see, how the Modena/turbo-Competitor Gallardo will compete against the creme de la creme of Ferrari and Porsche.

    sr

     
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