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    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    RC:
    SciFrog:
    Carlos from Spain:

    The difference is that the big car manufacturers are not entering a new market, they are already dominating the market of making cars, its Tesla that has entered a new market of making cars, once the big car companies decide its worth producing EV powered cars they are in a position to wipe out tesla and any other with their know how and resources to make cars, their dealer and service infrastruture, their huge client base, etc. The only reason Tesla is seling cars is because the difference to other cars in that their are electric powered attracts some customers, once that difference dissapears, so will Tesla cause their product will be no match is client service infrastructure, brand penetration, chasis engineering, pricing, interiors, production ability, R&D, and a long list of advantages the big companies have at this game. Tesla will never be mainstream because when the market is ready for that the bigmakers will decide to step in and reap the rewards of the market Tesla sowed. Personally I dont think tesla will die and dissaper but rather its auto division be bought and absorved by a big maker...

    You are funny. Everyone is raving about the fact that Tesla has finally relegated the notion of dealership to the dark ages. Maybe that has not been well established in Europe yet, but the experience in the USA is on a whole other level.

    They did? Where do you buy your Tesla? From a Tesla dealer. Where do you service your car? At a Tesla dealer. It doesn't really matter for the customer if the dealership is factory owned or not. 

    Read up on that RC. They are not dealers... There is a whole new approach to the experience.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    noone1:

    How about we just wait and see? The idea that no one will buy a Tesla over a Porsche is retarded. There's no reason to believe this. People will buy all sorts of stuff, just like they do now. I think many cars owned on here are ugly and not the best choice. So what? It doesn't mean everyone does. You guys buy all sorts of random shit for reasons of your own.

    Of course it is retarded, who said that? We just tried to make a point. Porsche, Audi, BMW, doesn't matter but Tesla will face huge competition once the other car manufacturers decide they can make more money from ELVs than with petrol cars.

    It's not a matter of will Tesla dominate, it's a matter of if they can sell enough to stick around, even if worth a fraction of what they are now. It's entirely possible they sell tons of cars, but not a profitably as hoped.

    Their profit will also depend on the competition and their pricing. If Porsche offers a Mission E at the same price of a Tesla S and similar performance, well... Or an Audi, BMW, Mercedes ELV at a lower price? Would you really buy a Tesla instead? Making America great again? Smiley Smiley

    The idea that Tesla sales will plummet when Porsche and Audi enter the market is ridiculous. Could they go down? Sure. Will they be the all-time leader? Possibly not, but making comments like "who would buy an X over a Cayenne" is dumb. Lots of people will just like lots of people buy BMWs and Mercedes and Audi over Porsche, even though they have no problem affording either.

    Exactly and the very same people will buy these brands over Tesla. Same as those Americans (and others) who think that European or Japanese/South Korean cars offer better quality and/or more value vs. US cars. Same story as now, just with different types of cars.

    Tesla is the first to offer what people expected from ELVs and of course there is a certain coolness/elitist feel to it.

    Let's talk again in 10 years from now. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:
    RC:

    Yesterday I (almost) confused this Citroen Minivan for a Tesla X. 

    How can people say the Tesla X is a SUV? It is clearly a Minivan. 

    2014122918155725.jpg
    elektroauto-tesla-model-x.jpeg

     

    Cause Elon say so, and Elon is never wrong according to some, so the Model X is  SUV not a minivan.

    I don't think it is a SUV either. The X was built from the ground up to be something unique, and it is and all the technical difficulties they encountered proves it. Wifi OTA updates, autonomous driving, Gullwing doors, rear seats on pedestals, large windshield over your head, two trunks, 7 seater with enough leg room for adults in the back... The X solves a lot of issues no one else has yet, but they also created some compromises like no flat rear seat in cargo position for example.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    RC:
     

    Exactly and the very same people will buy these brands over Tesla. Same as those Americans (and others) who think that European or Japanese/South Korean cars offer better quality and/or more value vs. US cars. Same story as now, just with different types of cars.

    What exactly is your reasoning that people will buy those brands over Tesla and not buy Teslas over those brands? I genuinely curious why you discount Tesla's brand while giving so much credit to everyone else. What's the fundamental reason for this other than "because they will" ?


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    I don't think it is a SUV either. The X was built from the ground up to be something unique, and it is and all the technical difficulties they encountered proves it. Gullwing doors, rear seats on pedestals, large windshield over your head, two trunks, 7 seater with enough leg room for adults in the back... The X solves a lot of issues no one else has yet, but they also created some compromises like no flat rear seat in cargo position for example.

    The X does have flat seats now. Is it an SUV? I don't know, but who cares. It is what it is and people are buying what they're buying. I don't consider the Macan an SUV, but others do, so whatever. If you want an SUV with barely any additional room and a little more ground clearance, go for it. I think there is barely any "utility" in it, whatever.

    If the X is a crossover, so what? If people buy it and get what they want out of it, so be. It obviously doesn't compete with minivans though, whether you think it looks like one or not.

    Here's the latest picture from Tesla's site showing flat folding seats.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    noone1:
    RC:
     

    Exactly and the very same people will buy these brands over Tesla. Same as those Americans (and others) who think that European or Japanese/South Korean cars offer better quality and/or more value vs. US cars. Same story as now, just with different types of cars.

    What exactly is your reasoning that people will buy those brands over Tesla and not buy Teslas over those brands? I genuinely curious why you discount Tesla's brand while giving so much credit to everyone else. What's the fundamental reason for this other than "because they will" ?

    Seriously? You don't find the Tesla design monotonous and boring? The Tesla X is ugly as hell in my opinion (but apparently in the US, tastes are different...maybe because many Americans love their minivan deep down their hearts but don't want to admit it because a minivan is boring? Smiley Smiley).

    If you could choose between a Tesla S P100D and a Panamera ELV with the same performance and price tag, which one would you take? Honestly? I wouldn't have to think twice about my choice.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    There are lot's of examples of former Porsche owners who moved to Tesla X or S and love their cars to bits. Not being fanatics or fanbois, just found out that the X/S suit their lifestyle and that it was quite a nice package all things considered. Those people are most likely not here to respond to this thread, but they do exist and they are many!

    Mission-E and the other German electric cars are still just Vaporware and concept cars even though they have put a time line to it. Time will tell if they deliver a competitive product.

    Regarding Tesla service and dealership structure... Their structure and setup is just way smarter and more efficient than the traditional way of doing stuff. Just take Europe as an example you can pick and choose inventory cars from entire Europe (excluding UK with RHD-cars) and have it in your driveway within 14 days with all the local guarantees, terms, etc. This means that Tesla can control it much more from a global level than having all the structure for local dealerships having quotas that the fight around etc. Not speaking about competition between dealer ships. That's really a non efficient way of doing things but the traditional car makers are stuck in that model for a while.

    The entire buying process with Tesla is quite honest. No haggling of discounts just like with Apple products. Make the buying process transparent and people don't need to wonder if they got discount or not. Separate service centers that are very efficient and according to what I've heard from friends owning Tesla they are really service minded and professional and everyone get a loaner without asking for it.

    If a customer is after that luxurious buying experience there are other brands like Bentley, Rolls, Ferrari etc but that is just for a few selected ppl that have the funds to pay for this. The mass market couldn't give  shit. I think actually the opposite that many people is quite fed up with car sales people and find it more convenient to configure and order online. I think many of you guys in here for instance know a lot more than the average sales Joe when you go into the dealership to finalize your order? When I ordered my last Porsche the sales guy was more of something I had to go through to put my order in, not something I needed or had any benefits from.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Again, let's talk again when that Panamera ELV is for sale. I would buy a Macan full electric in a instant at the same price of the Macan turbo with similar performances. But who's to say it will be at the same price.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    RC:
    noone1:
    RC:
     

    Exactly and the very same people will buy these brands over Tesla. Same as those Americans (and others) who think that European or Japanese/South Korean cars offer better quality and/or more value vs. US cars. Same story as now, just with different types of cars.

    What exactly is your reasoning that people will buy those brands over Tesla and not buy Teslas over those brands? I genuinely curious why you discount Tesla's brand while giving so much credit to everyone else. What's the fundamental reason for this other than "because they will" ?

    Seriously? You don't find the Tesla design monotonous and boring? The Tesla X is ugly as hell in my opinion (but apparently in the US, tastes are different...maybe because many Americans love their minivan deep down their hearts but don't want to admit it because a minivan is boring? Smiley Smiley).

    If you could choose between a Tesla S P100D and a Panamera ELV with the same performance and price tag, which one would you take? Honestly? I wouldn't have to think twice about my choice.

    No, I think the Model S is an excellent looking car. I'm not a huge fan of the X, but so what? I think Panamera and BMW X cars are pretty ugly, but people buy them.

    LOL. You're talking in hypotheticals. Would I take a 2012 S P100D over a 2020 Panamera ELV no? Would I take it over a 2012 Panamera ELV? Totally. You're comparing a 2012 Tesla product to an imaginary future product from Porsche. Why not compare the 2020 Panamera ELV to a brand new, clean-sheet Tesla design that doesn't exist yet?


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    Again, let's talk again when that Panamera ELV is for sale. I would buy a Macan full electric in a instant at the same price of the Macan turbo with similar performances. But who's to say it will be at the same price.

    Your wish will very likely be fulfilled. Stay tuned...not far away (next gen).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    lukestern:

    When I ordered my last Porsche the sales guy was more of something I had to go through to put my order in, not something I needed or had any benefits from.

    Bingo. I would never buy another car from a dealer if I didn't have to. People can buy all sorts of stuff without a sales person, so why not a car?

    The only reason we have dealers in the US still is legacy legal reason. Automakers would kill dealers in a second if they could.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    I try to order my cars via emails and never go to the dealer. You usually deal with barely knowledgeable individuals who only check your option list and do a lot of hand holding. They don't even negotiate the price, the manager does. These are sadly low paid positions and reflects bad on the dealership experience. Some high end dealers have very nice salesman though expect Ferrari of course.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    RC:

    If you could choose between a Tesla S P100D and a Panamera ELV with the same performance and price tag, which one would you take? Honestly? I wouldn't have to think twice about my choice.

     

    EDIT (didn't see it was the Panamera ELV that was the alternative)

    Anyway, the Panamera ELV doesn't exist right now so the choice is not really viable to make. If I'd buy today I'd pick the P100D and drive it for 5 years and then I'll see what alternatives there are for the next car purchase. If the Panamera ELV is out by then and they have built up a good charging infrastructure then it might be a nice pick! Right now we don't know. Just like we don't know how the iPhone 12 will be like :)


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    Again, let's talk again when that Panamera ELV is for sale. I would buy a Macan full electric in a instant at the same price of the Macan turbo with similar performances. But who's to say it will be at the same price.

    Your wish will very likely be fulfilled. Stay tuned...not far away (next gen).

    Next gen Macan is at least 3 to 4 years away... We are talking 2021 or 2022 models... By then the Y model will be out and will be much cheaper than the Macan ELV although way too many unknowns...

    To put things in perspective, 4 years ago, the Macan (to me the best, most versatile and fun vehicle sold today with some decent value) did not even exist.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Some sales men and women are genuinely nice people, but it's just not a good experience. When I bought that Toyota, they were super nice and everything, and when I said "OK, how much are we looking at," they spit out a few hundred under sticker. This was after the whole "we'll work with you and match anyone." 

    OK, so I went home, pulled 4 of the same cars on eBay for $3K less. I sent them an email and they said sure.

    So yeah, it was painless to make my offer, but at the same time it's annoying that the real price is $3K under what they offered and they didn't even seem to care.

    I'm not haggling over labor with people who have much of a stake in profit or anything. It's no different for me than buying a video game or blender. It's just a consumer product. Why deal with this haggling nonsense? Make a fair price and I'll pay it.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    I try to order my cars via emails and never go to the dealer. You usually deal with barely knowledgeable individuals who only check your option list and do a lot of hand holding. They don't even negotiate the price, the manager does. These are sadly low paid positions and reflects bad on the dealership experience. Some high end dealers have very nice salesman though expect Ferrari of course.

    I order a lot via internet but a car would be the last thing I order online.

    The whole ordering process is a pleasure for me, even the negotiations. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    RC:
    noone1:
    RC:
     

    Exactly and the very same people will buy these brands over Tesla. Same as those Americans (and others) who think that European or Japanese/South Korean cars offer better quality and/or more value vs. US cars. Same story as now, just with different types of cars.

    What exactly is your reasoning that people will buy those brands over Tesla and not buy Teslas over those brands? I genuinely curious why you discount Tesla's brand while giving so much credit to everyone else. What's the fundamental reason for this other than "because they will" ?

    Seriously? You don't find the Tesla design monotonous and boring? The Tesla X is ugly as hell in my opinion (but apparently in the US, tastes are different...maybe because many Americans love their minivan deep down their hearts but don't want to admit it because a minivan is boring? Smiley Smiley).

    If you could choose between a Tesla S P100D and a Panamera ELV with the same performance and price tag, which one would you take? Honestly? I wouldn't have to think twice about my choice.

    I really like the rear of the S and X. I don't like the front so much with the lack of vents, it looks bland. That said it is unique, Porsche SUV front are nice but they are basically the same for 10 years on two models...


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    lukestern:
    RC:

    If you could choose between a Tesla S P100D and a Panamera ELV with the same performance and price tag, which one would you take? Honestly? I wouldn't have to think twice about my choice.

     

    EDIT (didn't see it was the Panamera ELV that was the alternative)

    Anyway, the Panamera ELV doesn't exist right now so the choice is not really viable to make. If I'd buy today I'd pick the P100D and drive it for 5 years and then I'll see what alternatives there are for the next car purchase. If the Panamera ELV is out by then and they have built up a good charging infrastructure then it might be a nice pick! Right now we don't know. Just like we don't know how the iPhone 12 will be like :)

    True but I think you are underestimating the VW Group. This isn't only one company, this is a conglomerate of companies and development centers with very very capable people. I know that the emissions scandal kind of threw a bad light on them but these are very very capable people.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    I try to order my cars via emails and never go to the dealer. You usually deal with barely knowledgeable individuals who only check your option list and do a lot of hand holding. They don't even negotiate the price, the manager does. These are sadly low paid positions and reflects bad on the dealership experience. Some high end dealers have very nice salesman though expect Ferrari of course.

    I order a lot via internet but a car would be the last thing I order online.

    The whole ordering process is a pleasure for me, even the negotiations. Smiley

    You are unique (we knew that already Smiley).

    Car price negotiations is seen by the vast majority as one of the most frustrating experience one has to go through and a total waste of time and energy. One thing much easier in my life today is that I dont care anymore to even try to negotiate these kind of things Smiley


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    RC:
    lukestern:
    RC:

    If you could choose between a Tesla S P100D and a Panamera ELV with the same performance and price tag, which one would you take? Honestly? I wouldn't have to think twice about my choice.

     

    EDIT (didn't see it was the Panamera ELV that was the alternative)

    Anyway, the Panamera ELV doesn't exist right now so the choice is not really viable to make. If I'd buy today I'd pick the P100D and drive it for 5 years and then I'll see what alternatives there are for the next car purchase. If the Panamera ELV is out by then and they have built up a good charging infrastructure then it might be a nice pick! Right now we don't know. Just like we don't know how the iPhone 12 will be like :)

    True but I think you are underestimating the VW Group. This isn't only one company, this is a conglomerate of companies and development centers with very very capable people. I know that the emissions scandal kind of threw a bad light on them but these are very very capable people.

    There is no doubt they will eventually come up with amazing things. But they are not the leaders anymore, they have to catch up. Can't wait to see a SQ5 full EV for example.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    RC:
    lukestern:
    RC:

    If you could choose between a Tesla S P100D and a Panamera ELV with the same performance and price tag, which one would you take? Honestly? I wouldn't have to think twice about my choice.

     

    EDIT (didn't see it was the Panamera ELV that was the alternative)

    Anyway, the Panamera ELV doesn't exist right now so the choice is not really viable to make. If I'd buy today I'd pick the P100D and drive it for 5 years and then I'll see what alternatives there are for the next car purchase. If the Panamera ELV is out by then and they have built up a good charging infrastructure then it might be a nice pick! Right now we don't know. Just like we don't know how the iPhone 12 will be like :)

    True but I think you are underestimating the VW Group. This isn't only one company, this is a conglomerate of companies and development centers with very very capable people. I know that the emissions scandal kind of threw a bad light on them but these are very very capable people.


    No, I'm not underestimating the VW group. Far from it. I've been working in large scale businesses with transformation to new processes and know how difficult and expensive it is to make those changes.

    I think the challenge that the VW group is facing is bigger than you can imagine. They will for sure manage it in some way but I don't agree with your statements that they will destroy Tesla and the competition. I just don't see that trend.

    I however really hope they mange to come up with nice products. Because I will be more than happy to purchase a Panamera ELV or a Macan ELV in 5 years if they turn out to be appealing and competitive.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    lukestern:
    RC:
    lukestern:
    RC:

    If you could choose between a Tesla S P100D and a Panamera ELV with the same performance and price tag, which one would you take? Honestly? I wouldn't have to think twice about my choice.

     

    EDIT (didn't see it was the Panamera ELV that was the alternative)

    Anyway, the Panamera ELV doesn't exist right now so the choice is not really viable to make. If I'd buy today I'd pick the P100D and drive it for 5 years and then I'll see what alternatives there are for the next car purchase. If the Panamera ELV is out by then and they have built up a good charging infrastructure then it might be a nice pick! Right now we don't know. Just like we don't know how the iPhone 12 will be like :)

    True but I think you are underestimating the VW Group. This isn't only one company, this is a conglomerate of companies and development centers with very very capable people. I know that the emissions scandal kind of threw a bad light on them but these are very very capable people.


    No, I'm not underestimating the VW group. Far from it. I've been working in large scale businesses with transformation to new processes and know how difficult and expensive it is to make those changes.

    I think the challenge that the VW group is facing is bigger than you can imagine. They will for sure manage it in some way but I don't agree with your statements that they will destroy Tesla and the competition. I just don't see that trend.

    I however really hope they mange to come up with nice products. Because I will be more than happy to purchase a Panamera ELV or a Macan ELV in 5 years if they turn out to be appealing and competitive.

    You don't see it because there is no major ELV trend yet. In Germany, ELVs are not really successful, especially considering the fact that there is a financial support to buy them. Even cheaper ones don't sell.

    If I see one Tesla per day in Germany, this is big. Usually, I see one every week. I see more Bentleys than Tesla over here. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    I probably see at least 5-10 Tesla S a day on my 10 minute commute and from work and the underground parking in my building has about 25 EV charging stations on the top level and they are always full. Probably only see one X a week though. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Tesla shed over $10 billion in market capitalization over the past two days because of 1) Q2 17 sales volume contraction; 2) low volume Model 3 launch; and 3) relatively poor performance in the US based Insurance Institute for Highway Safety small overlap crash test.  The three issues are significant with the crash test results the most puzzling because two vehicles were tested and yielding significantly different results.  

    The first Model S tested had shown a major seatbelt issue allowing the test dummy's head to make hard contact with the steering wheel.  Tesla responded by changing the seatbelt design; however, the second test had shown no improvement in the seatbelt design and, more important, much greater deformation of the passenger safety cell.  The structural design was reportedly not changed, so the likely cause is large production variances.  Tesla, of course, responded maturely by lashing out at the frivolity of the test.  The Mercedes-Benz E-Class, on the other hand, passed the test with flying colors.  


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    oh, oh... put your flame suit on CGX   1497879697817bhauen.gif


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Mithras:

    I probably see at least 5-10 Tesla S a day on my 10 minute commute and from work and the underground parking in my building has about 25 EV charging stations on the top level and they are always full. Probably only see one X a week though. 

    In North American and Scandinavia, Tesla seems to have their most loyal customer base.

    Like I said before, for the German Autobahn, Tesla is crap (unless you keep driving constant 120 kph Smiley).

    Just for comparison: Tesla S P100D testdrive (full charge)...170 km range (maybe 190, power was reduced to help me reach a charging station). My R8...320 km range...both cars full throttle on the Autobahn.

    I know the comparison with my R8 is crap but you get my point. If I would compare it to my wife's Cayenne S Diesel, things would look even worse. Over 600 km range going full throttle on the Autobahn...forget Tesla. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    RC:
    Mithras:

    I probably see at least 5-10 Tesla S a day on my 10 minute commute and from work and the underground parking in my building has about 25 EV charging stations on the top level and they are always full. Probably only see one X a week though. 

    In North American and Scandinavia, Tesla seems to have their most loyal customer base.

    Like I said before, for the German Autobahn, Tesla is crap (unless you keep driving constant 120 kph Smiley).

    Just for comparison: Tesla S P100D testdrive (full charge)...170 km range (maybe 190, power was reduced to help me reach a charging station). My R8...320 km range...both cars full throttle on the Autobahn.

    I know the comparison with my R8 is crap but you get my point. If I would compare it to my wife's Cayenne S Diesel, things would look even worse. Over 600 km range going full throttle on the Autobahn...forget Tesla. Smiley


    RC, I don't think anyone deny that Teslas (and current EV's in general) have the issue that range is substantially reduced above 150kph. So for all those who demand a car that can run at very high speeds for 300+ km without stopping a Panamera Diesel, Audi A8 Diesel or similar is of course the car to get.

    But 99% of the potential customers outside of Germany does not have those demands. And I'm also sure that a huge number of Germans does not pace at those speeds for several reasons. Safety and increased fuel consumption/cost are the two main reasons. More likely averaging 130-150km/h and get to the destination a bit more relaxed and fresh.

    The Mission-E will suffer from the same issues that range is massively reduced at higher speeds. Maybe Porsche get the cooling better so the car can perform on the track, but it will still consume a lot of energy while on the move at high speeds because of physics. If Porsche today refer to NEDC figurer of 500km+ range for the Mission E to be on the market early 2020, that is like 100km+ lower figures than a Tesla 100D (rated at 632km NEDC).


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    My point is: Tesla is a pioneer in the ELV business. They did great things. Unfortunately, the major car manufacturers are not like Tesla, they do not risk billions, they pick up Tesla's pieces once they consider the ELV business to be profitable. If and when they (major car manufacturers) do that, they will offer solutions which are comparable to current petrol cars. Even better: Major car manufacturers can learn from the mistakes Tesla made and still makes. Wonderful for them...Tesla is basically doing their alpha testing here...  Don't you think that all major car manufacturers have a Tesla in their testing pool? Actually more than one.  I know that for a fact (Porsche, Audi...).

    Unlike others, I also do not see anyone buying Tesla. What for? Maybe an investment group or a Chinese car manufacturer but one of the big players? I highly doubt it. Once VW Group, BMW and Mercedes seriously enter the ELV game, it is game over for Tesla. Won't take long. I'd say that by 2030, Tesla is history. Unless...and this is very important...they come up with some sensational like a new super fast charging method and/or new battery tech (both patented by Tesla of course).

    Sorry but this is how I see it. Of course I don't have to be right. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)



    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    911tts:

    http://europe.autonews.com/article/20170706/ANE/170709884/france-to-end-sale-of-diesel-gasoline-vehicles-by-2040?cciid=email-ane...

    We talked about it shortly in a different thread. This is only a declaration of intent, also France is a member of the EU if you get my point but 2040 sounds awfully ambitious in my opinion since there is no charging infrastructure yet. How can there be one if the tech changes/improves all the time? Smiley Also, 2040 is for new cars only, so no worries here but like I said...a declaration of intent, no worth much right now. A new government and things can already change.

    However, it is pretty clear where the voyage is going to...ELVs. Sooner or later, no doubt about it.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


     
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    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 5/18/22 8:03 AM
    RCA
     
     
     
     
     
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    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/23/22 1:43 PM
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    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/18/22 6:34 AM
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    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/1/22 7:14 AM
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    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 1/3/22 7:55 AM
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 9/28/21 3:25 AM
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    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/1/22 10:14 PM
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 11/17/21 5:18 PM
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 2/1/22 9:49 AM
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    Porsche 992 GT3 5/13/22 3:48 PM
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 9/29/21 1:59 AM
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    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 2/10/22 9:08 PM
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    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 5/12/22 9:01 PM
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    Motor Sp. [2021] Formula 1 4/19/22 10:08 PM
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    Others Bugatti Chiron 4/12/22 9:24 PM
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    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 12/15/21 8:04 PM
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    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 2/28/22 7:42 PM
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    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 4/4/22 7:10 AM
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    Porsche Dave and Gnil @ Nürburgring Nordschleife 10/16/21 1:07 PM
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    Others Corvette C8 11/8/21 8:04 PM
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    Others Toyota Yaris GR 4/13/22 8:33 PM
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    AMG AMG plotting new SLR with hybrid power for 2018 launch 2/22/22 2:34 PM
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