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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Rossi:
    Whoopsy:

    Oh one more thing. Mclaren have more stuff coming out soon.

    One sits above the 600LT. If anyone got 600LT, now is the time to sell and order that before the price start dropping.

    Not announced yet, but dealers are already taking deposits. 

    Something above the 600LT already? Smiley

    Man, they‘re changing their models way too fast. Smiley

     

    Yup and Yup!

    This is why there is no 'right time' to buy a McLaren, it's always the wrong time.

    Also why the prices drop like a stone. 


    --

     

     



    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    350 cars. 

    Street version of the 570 GT4 race car. Option list includes slicks.

    Didn't know there is already spy shots out. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:

    350 cars. 

    Street version of the 570 GT4 race car. Option list includes slicks.

    Didn't know there is already spy shots out. 

    Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    All this is really a big problem. Who shall buy all these derivatives of McLaren cars. Resale will be a horrible experience for those who are willing to give it a try Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    600LT is just like the Porsche GT3 and the 620R would be the GT3RS no?


    --

    Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ^ until something new/better comes out...


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:

    All this is really a big problem. Who shall buy all these derivatives of McLaren cars. Resale will be a horrible experience for those who are willing to give it a try Smiley

    It seems that other expensive brands are suffering similarly, Aston, Lambo, some Ferraris but not quite as severely as Mclaren. 

    The 765LT is due out early next year and I have a deposit down for one but I am really torn since as well as the ~£120K depreciation on my then two year old 720 there is no doubt that despite being limited to 1400 units (700 coupe, 700 spider) the new LT will lose £40K as soon as it is delivered and likely £100K or more after a year or so. The smart thing to do is probably to wait for a year and buy second hand but then it is someone else's spec and these cars are so bespoke that a big part of the ownership is speccing it just how you want it.

    Apart from the depreciaton my 720S is such an amzing enjoyable and unique car and I love all aspects of it that I can't imagine the LT will be so much better and then of course is it £200+K better Smiley


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    2018 McLaren 720S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    EnglishManInNY:

    600LT is just like the Porsche GT3 and the 620R would be the GT3RS no?

     

    Not quite. the 540/570/600/and 620 is sort of their entry level cars. Think Boxster/Cayman.

    Closest analogy would be the 600LT is the Cayman GT4, and the 620R will be the GT4RS.

    But the 620R literally will be the homologated street car for the race car.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    TB993tt:
    MKSGR:

    All this is really a big problem. Who shall buy all these derivatives of McLaren cars. Resale will be a horrible experience for those who are willing to give it a try Smiley

    It seems that other expensive brands are suffering similarly, Aston, Lambo, some Ferraris but not quite as severely as Mclaren. 

    The 765LT is due out early next year and I have a deposit down for one but I am really torn since as well as the ~£120K depreciation on my then two year old 720 there is no doubt that despite being limited to 1400 units (700 coupe, 700 spider) the new LT will lose £40K as soon as it is delivered and likely £100K or more after a year or so. The smart thing to do is probably to wait for a year and buy second hand but then it is someone else's spec and these cars are so bespoke that a big part of the ownership is speccing it just how you want it.

    Apart from the depreciaton my 720S is such an amzing enjoyable and unique car and I love all aspects of it that I can't imagine the LT will be so much better and then of course is it £200+K better Smiley

    I have very similar thoughts. The current McLaren products are really excellent to drive. Excellent engineering. At the same time, the buyer base is still very, very limited. So somebody has to take the hit on resale. If they would not launch so many different variants of there products everything would be less problematical. Equally important, you can never fully enjoy a new car if you already expect the better version in about 12 months Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    TB993tt:
    MKSGR:

    All this is really a big problem. Who shall buy all these derivatives of McLaren cars. Resale will be a horrible experience for those who are willing to give it a try Smiley

    It seems that other expensive brands are suffering similarly, Aston, Lambo, some Ferraris but not quite as severely as Mclaren. 

    The 765LT is due out early next year and I have a deposit down for one but I am really torn since as well as the ~£120K depreciation on my then two year old 720 there is no doubt that despite being limited to 1400 units (700 coupe, 700 spider) the new LT will lose £40K as soon as it is delivered and likely £100K or more after a year or so. The smart thing to do is probably to wait for a year and buy second hand but then it is someone else's spec and these cars are so bespoke that a big part of the ownership is speccing it just how you want it.

    Apart from the depreciaton my 720S is such an amzing enjoyable and unique car and I love all aspects of it that I can't imagine the LT will be so much better and then of course is it £200+K better Smiley

    I have very similar thoughts. The current McLaren products are really excellent to drive. Excellent engineering. At the same time, the buyer base is still very, very limited. So somebody has to take the hit on resale. If they would not launch so many different variants of there products everything would be less problematical. Equally important, you can never fully enjoy a new car if you already expect the better version in about 12 months Smiley

    There's an interesting podcast on collecting cars with Chris Goodwin, he touches on this subject. He claims McLaren does not want to hold back for marketing reasons. That they're aware this is costing them sales, but they aim to produce the best car they can at any given time, so if updates can be made after 6 months, they will. 


    --

    1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Porker:
    MKSGR:
    TB993tt:
    MKSGR:

    All this is really a big problem. Who shall buy all these derivatives of McLaren cars. Resale will be a horrible experience for those who are willing to give it a try Smiley

    It seems that other expensive brands are suffering similarly, Aston, Lambo, some Ferraris but not quite as severely as Mclaren. 

    The 765LT is due out early next year and I have a deposit down for one but I am really torn since as well as the ~£120K depreciation on my then two year old 720 there is no doubt that despite being limited to 1400 units (700 coupe, 700 spider) the new LT will lose £40K as soon as it is delivered and likely £100K or more after a year or so. The smart thing to do is probably to wait for a year and buy second hand but then it is someone else's spec and these cars are so bespoke that a big part of the ownership is speccing it just how you want it.

    Apart from the depreciaton my 720S is such an amzing enjoyable and unique car and I love all aspects of it that I can't imagine the LT will be so much better and then of course is it £200+K better Smiley

    I have very similar thoughts. The current McLaren products are really excellent to drive. Excellent engineering. At the same time, the buyer base is still very, very limited. So somebody has to take the hit on resale. If they would not launch so many different variants of there products everything would be less problematical. Equally important, you can never fully enjoy a new car if you already expect the better version in about 12 months Smiley

    There's an interesting podcast on collecting cars with Chris Goodwin, he touches on this subject. He claims McLaren does not want to hold back for marketing reasons. That they're aware this is costing them sales, but they aim to produce the best car they can at any given time, so if updates can be made after 6 months, they will. 

    I really doubt that is the real explanation, sales are the bottom line regardless, they probably think that in their particular situation, they can compete better and have better image for sales (they are relatively small and young yet) with constant updates, while other stablished makers can afford longer update cycles.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Carlos from Spain:
    Porker:
    MKSGR:
    TB993tt:
    MKSGR:

    All this is really a big problem. Who shall buy all these derivatives of McLaren cars. Resale will be a horrible experience for those who are willing to give it a try Smiley

    It seems that other expensive brands are suffering similarly, Aston, Lambo, some Ferraris but not quite as severely as Mclaren. 

    The 765LT is due out early next year and I have a deposit down for one but I am really torn since as well as the ~£120K depreciation on my then two year old 720 there is no doubt that despite being limited to 1400 units (700 coupe, 700 spider) the new LT will lose £40K as soon as it is delivered and likely £100K or more after a year or so. The smart thing to do is probably to wait for a year and buy second hand but then it is someone else's spec and these cars are so bespoke that a big part of the ownership is speccing it just how you want it.

    Apart from the depreciaton my 720S is such an amzing enjoyable and unique car and I love all aspects of it that I can't imagine the LT will be so much better and then of course is it £200+K better Smiley

    I have very similar thoughts. The current McLaren products are really excellent to drive. Excellent engineering. At the same time, the buyer base is still very, very limited. So somebody has to take the hit on resale. If they would not launch so many different variants of there products everything would be less problematical. Equally important, you can never fully enjoy a new car if you already expect the better version in about 12 months Smiley

    There's an interesting podcast on collecting cars with Chris Goodwin, he touches on this subject. He claims McLaren does not want to hold back for marketing reasons. That they're aware this is costing them sales, but they aim to produce the best car they can at any given time, so if updates can be made after 6 months, they will. 

    I really doubt that is the real explanation, sales are the bottom line regardless, they probably think that in their particular situation, they can compete better and have better image for sales (they are relatively small and young yet) with constant updates, while other stablished makers can afford longer update cycles.

    In the UK I think they are an unwitting victim of the massive hype around high end cars which attracted premiums around 2015/6/7 led by Porsche GT models and some Ferrari/Lambos, the 675LT was way oversubscribed with many buyers expecting to be buying appreciating assets I know this after speaking with many buyers who became apoplectic that their cars actually depreciated. The 720S came out in 2017 on the back of the 675LT hype and again a mass scramble to get a "slot" with people not realising that Mclaren intended to sell as many as they could.

    When I bought my 720 in May '18 it came with a document which I had to sign saying I would not sell within 6 months for a premium Smiley this shows the mindset which had been prevailing. They have sold over 400 720s into the UK market which is way too many £250K two seaters there is no way there are that many customers who can really afford this type of car unless of course is was an appreciating/non depreciating asset.

    I am a member of the UK members club and I lurk on their Facebook pages and it seems to me that many of the owners shouldn't really be driving cars this expensive and can not afford even normal ~20% pa depreciation never mind the current Mclaren level, they spend most of their chat on depreciation it is quite sad to read and I do have sympathy.and of course I would rather the car didn't depreciate but my eyes were fully open on purchase and I can use all types of man maths to justify it Smiley

     


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    2018 McLaren 720S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I think it would be a smart move to now pick-up 720S' at current prices. So much bang for the buck... 


    --

    1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Porker:

    I think it would be a smart move to now pick-up 720S' at current prices. So much bang for the buck... 

    Absolutely - best pound for pound used car out there.

    As mentioned by others in this thread McLaren have a flawed business plan (volume & product cycle) - the market is supersaturated at their price points despite the excellence of the 570S and 720S. Furthermore, McLaren do not have the 70 years of history/heritage/ brand loyalty that Porsche and Ferrari have to fall back on.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    If you can't afford to loose the total value of a car , it would be crazy to buy it . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Gnil:

    If you can't afford to loose the total value of a car , it would be crazy to buy it . 

     

    Still, even for some of us here, getting burnt is getting burnt. It leaves a sour taste in your mouth.

    Literally I have turned down 6 cars from my McLaren dealer already after my 12C.

    Those sports cars are a toy, and most don't even stay in the garage for long or get driven a lot. It gets expensive in a hurry after a few of those. 

    My Cayenne Turbo S was another one of those that drop like a stone, so is my current Panamera Turbo S. But that's different, these 2 are like my workhorses, they get the most mileage and will be kept the longest, spreading the depreciation over more miles and a few years make it easier to swallow. Losing 100k+ in almost 4 years feels better than losing 100k+ in little over a year. Also, the body style stays for longer and it won't look outdated immediately. 

    Even the 911s, not all of them keep their value, but the car basically look the same since the original one, it doesn't really look 'dated'. (well maybe the 996, but that's another story)

     


    --

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    As you say, cars are toys or means of transport .  Originally then are not meant to be investments . If some do , that is great . But most won't . Cars are disposals . You will have to pay for that .

    Of course it hurts when 100k vanish in a year , but then, if one can't afford that pain, then he should stay away and buy something that won't hurt him so much . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    If McLaren ever wants to succeed in the super- and hypercar segment, they will have to fix very quickly their huge problem of residual value.

    I know a couple of ex McL owners who left the brand as quickly as they came to it after being totally p___ off by the depreciation of their McL.

     


    --

    AMG GTR / Lotus Exige Cup 430 Type 25 / 991.1 GT3 RS / Cayman GT4 / 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 / 997.2 GT3 / Lotus Exige S / 964 Turbo 3.3


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    It's a shame because they have come a long way (I wasn't a fan at the beginning) and they are great sportscars, have unique traits, and the sportscar world in general is better for it, including forcing the others historic manufacturers to be better, so everybody wins. 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    The problem of depreciation is with almost all sports cars at the moment, and not only McLaren. What to think of my R8 or AMG GT C, nice cars but resale will be a big problem. The production numbers are (too) high and there is just not enough market to absorb these cars. The other problem is the complexity of the modern cars, the maintenance/running cost after a number of years is not depreciating. Like said before in this forum we need to get used to the idea that driving sportscars is an expensive hobby!


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Yes same opinion here lit JR-550 stated many brands with high production numbers, special models, ... are too much for the market. One who can afford a 300k+ car can afford the running costs from lets say 15k a year. But one who can afford a 100-150k car cant. 

    When you look 15 years back there was only Ferrari and Porsche and the rest was nearly non existend.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Fully agree with JR-550 and Hunterone . The problem lies not only with McLaren. Today many manufactures makes good high end sports car and the market is saturated . It is one thing to fill the demand for new cars ( which has exploded in the last years due to easier cars to drive, more people with cash , and craze about not loosing money on cars ) ...... but then with so many new cars put on the street it is impossible to find enough 2nd hand buyers for all these cars . To me the market is due to crash even more on resale for most sports cars , expect the real collectibles . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Most people who buy very expensive cars are in the "money is no object" bracket, so I wonder why they whinge about such trivialities like depreciation given the pleasure they derive Depreciation on their vehicles might constitute a small proportion of their annual personal/family expenditure

    For the rest of us who might just afford an expensive car either due to a good income or say, a windfall gain from an investment we must be careful to buy something that we could keep for many years to come, so depreciation from an early replacement will not enter the equation. Such car must be reliable, practical and evergreen. Like a good Porsche for example

     


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    cars are meant to be used....and surely while I agree that taking the hit is not a nice thing, its part of the game of owning what is considered luxury items. mainly I believe because most folks who are in the market for the high end, usually don't go for used and the second in line take advantage of that.

    I agree with whoops that the best strategy is to spread the depreciation over years and miles.

    If I loose a 100 after a year I would rather loose 140 after 4 or 5  years


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    if you can't afford to put it in the wall and  loose all its value then most probably out of the purchase capability. seeing a car as residual value is a bit risky.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Gentlemen  - it is a question of degree. Of course one should expect a car to lose value. However 35% to 40% in a year on a £300K car is too much for most to swallow.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Gnil:

    If you can't afford to loose the total value of a car , it would be crazy to buy it . 

    This is why I don't buy. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    New Elva


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    70504186-60CA-4793-A014-19D1C07AB5F7.jpeg


     
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