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    GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    Lots of discussion about the GT2 and GT3 lines in the past months, with new models arriving.   After driving one a few weeks ago, it left me wondering how the GT3 would feel/drive with PDK? 

    My own guess is that it is only a matter of time, and that Porsche could now fairly easily develop a "Sport PDK" (especially now that they have found the religion of paddles  Smiley )  that would, for example, have a much more sport oriented default mode, or perhaps even default to manual mode as does Ferrari.    And my view... is that adding a PDK option could result in an even more amazing GT3-GT2 line, mainly because I think that the feel and enjoyment of any sequential-manual gearbox  is enhanced by mating it to exceptional engines.   

    So - would adding PDK to the GT2 or GT3 lines be good or bad??     


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    2010 Audi S5,  2002 M Coupe


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    My comment about this subject:

    -PDK can not be mated with Mezger GT1 derivated engines-they are too big sizewise for PDK. That is basically the only reason for lack of PDK in current GT3/GT3 RS and GT2 RS models

    -DCT(or PDK) is standard item in: Ferrari 458 Italia, McLaren MP4-12C, Mercedes SLS AMG and 997.2 Turbo S. DCT is the future(and present) gearbox for all high power sportscars.

    -DCT is NOT sequential manual a la F1, e-gear or R tronic. Sequential manuals are officially dead IMO.

    -will manual live for semi track sportscars a la GT3/GT2 models from Porsche? Chances are slim IMHO.

    -"Sport PDK"? Did you drove 997.2 Turbo PDK with SC? Try it in Sport Plus D programm... It is as sporty as possible IMHO.


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

     KresoF1,

    do you mean that best acceleration in 911 turbo PDk is achieved in Sport Plus D mode?


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

     You can use sport plus in either manual or D (automatic). I believe performance is better in D because you take the human element out of it.


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    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    good !


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    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    I think the answer is good from the perspective of speed.  But also for this reason, I want to keep a manual Porsche for the long term, so that when my 2 year old son grows up, he will have a manual Porsche which will not be in existence by then.


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    WAY:

    I think the answer is good from the perspective of speed.  But also for this reason, I want to keep a manual Porsche for the long term, so that when my 2 year old son grows up, he will have a manual Porsche which will not be in existence by then.

    I like this. To me the GT3 is all about interaction with the car. It is about a challenging/rewarding and involving driving experience. I truly love shifting and the difficulty of perfect heel/toe downshifts is what makes them so enjoyable when done correctly. There is NO other car like the GT3.Smiley


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    I have no doubt that future GT3/GT2 iterations will have manual transmissions, at least as long as they continue to have internal combustion engines as their primary motive force.  In the future Porsche enthusiasts will sing the praises of the 997 the way they do the 993, as their 911 will be all electric w/ a synthetic sound track for an exhaust.


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    Carpe Diem--life is but a crack of light bounded by eternities of darkness (Nabokov)


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    DaveC:

    I have no doubt that future GT3/GT2 iterations will have manual transmissions, at least as long as they continue to have internal combustion engines as their primary motive force.  In the future Porsche enthusiasts will sing the praises of the 997 the way they do the 993, as their 911 will be all electric w/ a synthetic sound track for an exhaust.

     

    I am of the view that manual transmission will be around for maybe one more generation of GT3 and that's it.  Look at Ferrari 458!  Also, the next gen GT3 is going to be a hybrid, I am almost willing to bet my money on it.  So this one right here is going to be your last old school GT3. 
     

     


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

     There is still a problem with the weight (amongst others) of the system. (Porsche are working on this but it takes time.)

    I think we are still some years away from the hybrid in a road going GT3....but it will eventually come.


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    manual transmissions are still a big thing with german drivers. so german manufacturers might still offer manuals well into the future.

    however, i doubt we will see the sportiest of them with manuals as they need to keep up with the perfoirmance numbers of the competition and for that only double-clutch systems will do.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    What about a more track like manual with the short shift stick push kind?  I could see that, because it is obviously way sportier, read faster, but still manual in a sense that you have the stick in the center console.


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    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    those are sequential transmissions. double clutch are better, if for the moment still heavier.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    I hear Lambo is sticking to sequential manual for the Jota?  I wonder why no DSG given that they are the pioneer of these on road cars (the group, not Lambo obviously).


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    trip:
    WAY:

    I think the answer is good from the perspective of speed.  But also for this reason, I want to keep a manual Porsche for the long term, so that when my 2 year old son grows up, he will have a manual Porsche which will not be in existence by then.

    I like this. To me the GT3 is all about interaction with the car. It is about a challenging/rewarding and involving driving experience. I truly love shifting and the difficulty of perfect heel/toe downshifts is what makes them so enjoyable when done correctly. There is NO other car like the GT3.Smiley

    Agree 100% however... the GT3 is a track/race car that is adapted for the road. As a track car, it has to be as fast and efficient as possible. As it turns out, it seems that PDK is THE fast and efficient solution so... isn't it unavoidable then that the GT3 will, at some point, be offered with PDK only? I track but do not race so, for me, it's not about getting the fastest lap time, it's about being one with the car and having as much fun as possible. How can P reconcile this with racers wanting to win races Smiley


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    Slow In, Fast Out


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    Really good point there Ffaust. For someone like me who enjoys track days but also enter the occasional time trials, tarmac rallies and various form of races, I'm quite conflicted. In the races, I do want to win, and you always know that the guys with the PDK will have an advantage there. But on track days and on my local mountain roads, I just want to have fun so I prefer manual. I think Porsche will just have to offer both and let the buyer decide.

    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    And to take the argument one step further... If the objective is to go as fast as possible, maybe the solution is to have a Cayman with PDK and extra hp


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    Slow In, Fast Out


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

     You need to distinguish between cars built for speed and cars built for driver involvement. Porsche's want to win.  If one is so enamored with manual/driver involvement buy something cheaper like a Lotus or even a Miata. 

    I have never understood why anyone would shackle their performance when the point of the exercise is performance. It would be like playing soccer wearing tennis shoes on a grass soccer field. Not very effective but I suppose more involved.


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    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    I would like to add this:

    Is 997.2 Turbo PDK less involving because of PDK? NO. By far IMHO! This car is born to be mated with PDK. PDK is what makes new 997.2 Turbo that special. At least IMHO...

    What about GT3/GT2 models with PDK?

    PDK would make them faster(both in acceleration and on the track), safer(for not so talented shifter) and more exploitable for wider audience. Again, IMHO...


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    good for 991


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    I don't think Porsche would offer the GT3 and GT2 with manual (only) if there were no technical obstacles to fit PDK.

    Manual for these cars is not by choice but out of necessity. Hope Porsche catch up with progress with the next GT models.


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    I strongly disagree. Porsche must continue to offer manual transmissions on all sports cars. I have driven PDK, driven the 997 GT2, driven the 997.2 GT3. Obviously my shifts were faster with PDK, obviously the GT2 is faster than the GT3. I don't care, I would take the GT3 (manual) every single time. The car is about fun + excellent engineering and performance. The manual gearbox offers a rewarding challenge while the natuarally aspirated engine offers superior character and sound. Those two factors are great on their own but would mean little to me without the amazing chasis, steering, acceleration, and breaking that form the foundation of the car. Nick you are making a mistake by saying "you need to distinguish between cars built for speed and those for driver involvement." That is simply not true. Cars like the GT3, Scuderia, CGT, are built to push the envelopes of both emphases. It really is a difference of opinion but you guys cannot accept that some people prefer to shift their own gears


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    trip:

    I strongly disagree. Porsche must continue to offer manual transmissions on all sports cars.

    Yes, offer a choice of transmissions is the correct way.

    To limit the choice to manual only is wrong because not only they might be  losing sales but for image purposes a high tech Porsche GT car should have a 21 century transmission as an option, at least.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    reginos:
    trip:

    I strongly disagree. Porsche must continue to offer manual transmissions on all sports cars.

    Yes, offer a choice of transmissions is the correct way.

    To limit the choice to manual only is wrong because not only they might be  losing sales but for image purposes a high tech Porsche GT car should have a 21 century transmission as an option, at least.

    I agree completely, I'll take my 991 GT2 RS in PDK and my 991 GT3 RS in good ol' fashion manual Smiley


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    ^ Like he said


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    Slow In, Fast Out


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    Ferrari knows as much as performance as any car manufacturer. They have decided against offering manual. There are economic considerations for the car manufacturers. If over 90% of the buyers are opting for PDK why would Porsche make manual available? It would be costly to do so.

    If manual was not available would Porsche lose business? NO! Off hand I cannot think of any other high performance sport car manufacturer that offers manual. It really is old technology which hinders the performance of the car.


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    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    KresoF1:

    My comment about this subject:

    -PDK can not be mated with Mezger GT1 derivated engines-they are too big sizewise for PDK. That is basically the only reason for lack of PDK in current GT3/GT3 RS and GT2 RS models

    I either read this or some engineer said it in a video but I can't find the source now.  Do you have a source for this statement?  Thanks.

    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    I got that info from friend of mine who works for P.

    ...and this info is accurate one.


    Re: GT3/GT2 - would PDK be good or bad?

    KresoF1:

    I got that info from friend of mine who works for P.

    ...and this info is accurate one.

     

    Thanks.  I found an article in Excellence that confirmed PDK is too long for Mezger engine.

     


     
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