Crown

Board: Porsche - Taycan Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I got the Macan turbo because it was the best crossover available and because it saved me a lot of money vs the Cayenne (which was the best available SUV at the time). Not because of the badge. Actually today I would probably buy the Stelvio and not the Macan. The Macan is basically exactly the same it was 5 years ago but with a bigger infotainment screen and a much worse design. Porsche refuses to make the product better before the 7 year mark to extract maximum profit from it. Well they won’t get my money this time for that outdated product.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Many here have been pitching unreleased products vs older tech Tesla already on the road. At the minimum you need to wait for what Tesla will release in the next couple of years. It would be foolish to think Tesla will stay stale since they don’t follow the dinosaurs upgrade cycles designed to extract maximum profits.

     

    You keep ranting about Taycan being vapour ware. Which Porsche built a gigantic factory line for, and is real and is certainly coming?

    But isn't that what you wrote here is exactly vapour ware instead?


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Taycan is sold out for 2 years in USA (as I learned today)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    Many here have been pitching unreleased products vs older tech Tesla already on the road. At the minimum you need to wait for what Tesla will release in the next couple of years. It would be foolish to think Tesla will stay stale since they don’t follow the dinosaurs upgrade cycles designed to extract maximum profits.

     

    You keep ranting about Taycan being vapour ware. Which Porsche built a gigantic factory line for, and is real and is certainly coming?

    But isn't that what you wrote here is exactly vapour ware instead?

    Nick, who is implying the Taycan is not coming? The vapor ware part is about price and it’s place in Porsche lineup (and maybe timing). Porsche is playing the game of rumors to create a big buzz around it. All I am saying is wait until you can walk into a dealer or spec one with a final delivered price and optioned. In some way it is not different than Tesla touting a $35k model 3. Except that everyone knew it would be months (years even) before you could get one because Tesla basically told you so.

    Of course they have deposits for 2 years. A $75k Porsche EV than will outperform, out handle and with a much higher quality interior than a Model S for 40% less money Smiley. Heck even I would buy one just for kicks. All I am saying is Porsche will not deliver that product at that price and are playing a dirty game just to inflate the buzz.

    The equivalent of the Model S P100D built by Porsche should cost north of $180k. Let’s see how that 2 year waiting list fares then.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:
     

    The equivalent of the Model S P100D built by Porsche should cost north of $180k. Let’s see how that 2 year waiting list fares then.

    Whatever the price, you forget people are willing to pay a lot more for a Porsche than a Tesla anyway.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Why would I forget? I am/was one of these people...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Tesla 3 arrived today to Spain...from 60.000€

    They are going to sell... none


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Audi will sell plenty of these...

    ...in partnership with Porsche! Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:
    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    Many here have been pitching unreleased products vs older tech Tesla already on the road. At the minimum you need to wait for what Tesla will release in the next couple of years. It would be foolish to think Tesla will stay stale since they don’t follow the dinosaurs upgrade cycles designed to extract maximum profits.

     

    You keep ranting about Taycan being vapour ware. Which Porsche built a gigantic factory line for, and is real and is certainly coming?

    But isn't that what you wrote here is exactly vapour ware instead?

    Nick, who is implying the Taycan is not coming? The vapor ware part is about price and it’s place in Porsche lineup (and maybe timing). Porsche is playing the game of rumors to create a big buzz around it. All I am saying is wait until you can walk into a dealer or spec one with a final delivered price and optioned. In some way it is not different than Tesla touting a $35k model 3. Except that everyone knew it would be months (years even) before you could get one because Tesla basically told you so.

    Of course they have deposits for 2 years. A $75k Porsche EV than will outperform, out handle and with a much higher quality interior than a Model S for 40% less money Smiley. Heck even I would buy one just for kicks. All I am saying is Porsche will not deliver that product at that price and are playing a dirty game just to inflate the buzz.

    The equivalent of the Model S P100D built by Porsche should cost north of $180k. Let’s see how that 2 year waiting list fares then.

     

    Elon taunt about the $35k Model 3 to create a buzz and attract deposits in order to gain access to that money. He never disclosed the fact that he is NOT going to build the $35k model until much later, Everyone who had put down a deposit pretty much thought they were going to get it right away.

    For the Taycan, everyone KNOWS where it fits in their line up, or doesn't fit depending on one's point of view. The Taycan is the start of a separate line of electric offerings from Porsche, different from their fossil fuel line up. In that way it doesn't fit in. Just like Honda motorcycles don't fit into Honda's car line up. Different target audience. One could argue they are all cars, but same argument can be said of motorcycles vs cars, they are all just transportation devices. It's all about fitting one's need vs the offerings. If one really needs a EV from Porsche, then the Taycan, if not, then the Panamera.

    For those that think it will fit into the line-up, then the picture is also even clearer. Panamera is big, it is in the S class, 7 series segment. Taycan is E-class, 5 series sized, so there is no overlap. People that buy S classes don't cross shop with E classes. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    For those that think it will fit into the line-up, then the picture is also even clearer. Panamera is big, it is in the S class, 7 series segment. Taycan is E-class, 5 series sized, so there is no overlap. People that buy S classes don't cross shop with E classes.

    People that buys ICE cars don't necessarily buy EV cars and vice versa...Smiley

    the link between the EV and the ICE will be the hybrid systems on ICE cars.

    Taycan is the beginning of parallel line up Smiley spot on Nick!


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    I got the Macan turbo because it was the best crossover available and because it saved me a lot of money vs the Cayenne (which was the best available SUV at the time). Not because of the badge. Actually today I would probably buy the Stelvio and not the Macan. The Macan is basically exactly the same it was 5 years ago but with a bigger infotainment screen and a much worse design. Porsche refuses to make the product better before the 7 year mark to extract maximum profit from it. Well they won’t get my money this time for that outdated product.

    Stelvio? Seriously? Smiley Get the Audi Q8, the upcoming RS Q8 will be amazing. Basically a smaller Urus for a much smaller price. Or if you don't care about money, get the Urus. If you don't want to attract attention, get a dark color and black brake calipers. Or get a GLC 63 S AMG, this car rocks (from a SUV driving point of view, sportiest small(er) sized SUV on the market). EV? Audi etron. Name sounds like Smiley Smiley but car itself seems to be a fine EV.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The Q8 is not a crossover, the GLC is... a GLC. The Stelvio is nice fresh and fun. The Urus is awesome but it is also big and probably will not be able to have all season tires.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Audi will sell plenty of these...

    ...in partnership with Porsche! Smiley

    Apologies if this was covered somewhere else, but doesn’t this look very close to the production ready Taycan? So is Audi getting their own version, or is this yet a different platform?


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    That audi indeed looks like a Taycan in disguise yes


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    4trac:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Audi will sell plenty of these...

    ...in partnership with Porsche! Smiley

    Apologies if this was covered somewhere else, but doesn’t this look very close to the production ready Taycan? So is Audi getting their own version, or is this yet a different platform?

    Relies on the component set from the Porsche Taycan.  Some sources put the components shared at 60%, which makes significant sense economically, as higher production volumes will drop the cost of the battery packs.  The Volkswagen Group is still exploring various technologies among Porsche and Audi for EVs.  For example, Audi will soon introduce a higher performance variant of the its e-tron SUV which will incorporate three motors-one in the front and two in the rear for a dramatic improvement in torque vectoring.  Porsche will introduce a two-speed gearbox for the Taycan to allow for higher cruising speeds.  It has not been disclosed if the Audi e-tron GT design includes that two-speed gearbox.   These differences allow for greater product differentiation as components become more and more commoditized.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    The Q8 is not a crossover, the GLC is... a GLC. The Stelvio is nice fresh and fun. The Urus is awesome but it is also big and probably will not be able to have all season tires.

     

    Urus is Cayenne sized as they are on the same platform, so mid size, not tiny size like the Macan/Q5 or giant size like Ranger Rovers.

    I hated the SVR, it is gigantic compared to the Cayenne. I got a Macan GTS with the power pack from Porsche last time I was in Stuttgart, it feels, tiny and underpowered. 

    And yes, soon Lambo will have winter tire packages for the Urus.


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    I hated the SVR, it is gigantic compared to the Cayenne.

    That can only be your impression from the driving seat as the dimensions are pretty close with the Cayenne actually being longer whilst the Range Rover is taller. The boxier shape of the Range Rover with it's more upright glasshouse can subjectively make the car feel larger as does the higher seating position but the physical footprints are very close.

    I've owned 3 Cayennes and had a Range Rover Sport for the best part of three years and it never felt larger to me than the Porsches did but you do notice the height difference.

    1544173233541Dimensions.JPG


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Since my RR has 7 seats, size comparaison with the Cayenne is a moot point personally...

    Macan GTS is under powered, especially for you. The TT barely made it.

    I just cannot swap wheels for any car. It is just too complicated and cumbersome. So a winter car needs to have all season permanently.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Since my RR has 7 seats, size comparaison with the Cayenne is a moot point personally...

    Macan GTS is under powered, especially for you. The TT barely made it.

    I just cannot swap wheels for any car. It is just too complicated and cumbersome. So a winter car needs to have all season permanently.

    Smiley Easy peasy, takes an hour at the dealership (I love talking with my sales guy, looking at new cars or just use my phone to keep me entertained while it happens), no problem. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I don’t have an hour per car to waste at the dealership (they are 40 mins+ away one way on top of it), plus they do not store the wheels. So what do you do?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    I don’t have an hour per car to waste at the dealership (they are 40 mins+ away one way on top of it), plus they do not store the wheels. So what do you do?

    They do not store the wheels? Why? The dealerships in Germany are often using third party companies for wheel storage, one is even called "tires hotel". Smiley You just call them (dealership) two days ahead when you want to switch tires and the tires are at your dealership, ready to be switched when you arrive for your appointment. Storage is often not free but not very expensive.

    One hour twice a year? Not really an issue for me since I enjoy being there. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Well for me it would be 2.5 hours, twice a year, for 2 or 3 cars if during the week after work. On the weekends it would take even longer and service is closed anyway. I will just skip the details but right now in my life it is pretty much impossible.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I have a guy that stores my wheels and has a mobile truck with full tire workshop inside (he can mount and balance in the truck). I call him, he comes with my wheels, puts them on and drives away. If I have a flat etc he comes with the tire, mounts, balances and leaves. It's about 10% more expensive than if I went to a bricks & mortar store. But seeing as I have to go outside and talk for 5 minutes at most if I want it's worth it. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Well for me it would be 2.5 hours, twice a year, for 2 or 3 cars if during the week after work. On the weekends it would take even longer and service is closed anyway. I will just skip the details but right now in my life it is pretty much impossible.

    Some dealers also offer a pickup/return service for cars... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Of course. But since they don’t store the wheels...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Of course. But since they don’t store the wheels...

    This is so stupid... Smiley 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    ISUK:
    Whoopsy:

    I hated the SVR, it is gigantic compared to the Cayenne.

    That can only be your impression from the driving seat as the dimensions are pretty close with the Cayenne actually being longer whilst the Range Rover is taller. The boxier shape of the Range Rover with it's more upright glasshouse can subjectively make the car feel larger as does the higher seating position but the physical footprints are very close.

    I've owned 3 Cayennes and had a Range Rover Sport for the best part of three years and it never felt larger to me than the Porsches did but you do notice the height difference.

    1544173233541Dimensions.JPG

     

    I never dive in to check the specs, weird to see they are pretty much the same width. In my garage parked side by aide, the SVR simply looks wider, and when opening the doors it just reinforce the idea that the SVR is wider as it's door doesn't open as wide in the same space. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    It's the lack of tumblehome (to use car designer speak) that is throwing you. The Cayenne has a narrower upper cabin with the glass falling more sharply inwards on the sides towards the narrower roof panel. This also means the rear of the doors tilts inward more which allows them to open slightly wider in confined spaces. The RRS doors are much more upright due to the wider roof panel. This rear comparison photo really highlights the difference in upper cabin widths. The Cayenne really narrows in around it's window belt line whereas the Range Rover Sport hardly does so at all. It's why the RRS feels so much more spacious inside.

    Vs Cayenne.JPG


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Regarding all season tires, my Panamera Turbo came with them.  Not that it matters much, but your top speed is limited to 150 miles an hour. I doubt I will ever go 190, but it’s nice to know it’s there. The weather is not so bad here, so my next car will not have all season tires on it.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    I don’t have an hour per car to waste at the dealership (they are 40 mins+ away one way on top of it), plus they do not store the wheels. So what do you do?

    They do not store the wheels? Why? The dealerships in Germany are often using third party companies for wheel storage, one is even called "tires hotel". Smiley You just call them (dealership) two days ahead when you want to switch tires and the tires are at your dealership, ready to be switched when you arrive for your appointment. Storage is often not free but not very expensive.

    One hour twice a year? Not really an issue for me since I enjoy being there. 

    Yes, I have your exact service RC, and this is not even a very large city...  use it just for the RR since its wheels are pretty heavy even though I am set up to do this in my garage.  Winter beater Subie I do change over myself, and of course the 997 never sees winter.

    For SciFrog, I hope your winters are warm and mild; the majority of all seasons are just barely acceptable in truly cold and/or slippery conditions.  


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 5/18/22 6:36 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    620894 1306
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 8/6/22 1:00 AM
    W8MM
    256549 1183
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 8/17/22 7:28 AM
    BjoernB
    147636 1123
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 8/18/22 7:54 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    142486 411
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 8/10/22 8:51 PM
    WhoopsyM
    123703 538
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 1/15/22 10:41 PM
    watt
    61167 1
    Porsche Cayman GT4 10/5/21 7:04 PM
    Topspeed
    550404 3587
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 9/28/21 3:25 AM
    WhoopsyM
    460168 3507
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/1/22 10:14 PM
    SSO.
    456054 3954
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 11/17/21 5:18 PM
    Rossi
    421692 3256
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 2/1/22 9:49 AM
    RCA
    410611 2655
    Porsche 992 GT3 8/14/22 1:48 AM
    Wonderbar
    395987 3695
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 9/29/21 1:59 AM
    watt
    320505 1587
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 7/30/22 11:46 AM
    Wonderbar
    169520 1446
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 2/10/22 9:08 PM
    Topspeed
    167314 772
    AMG AMG GT R 3/13/22 8:52 PM
    spudgun
    140516 834
    Lambo Aventador and SV 5/20/22 5:24 PM
    Topspeed
    137114 710
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 8/18/22 8:02 PM
    CGX car nut
    127402 1772
    Porsche GT4RS 8/18/22 3:42 PM
    GnilM
    121034 1075
    Motor Sp. [2021] Formula 1 4/19/22 10:08 PM
    Leawood911
    104249 1590
    Others Bugatti Chiron 4/12/22 9:24 PM
    blueflame
    102301 520
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 6/12/22 5:09 PM
    watt
    99898 535
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 2/28/22 7:42 PM
    Topspeed
    88830 409
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 8/11/22 3:03 PM
    Enmanuel
    83198 489
    Lambo Urus (SUV) 6/7/22 1:20 PM
    Topspeed
    82949 593
    Porsche Dave and Gnil @ Nürburgring Nordschleife 7/4/22 10:42 PM
    DaveGordon
    81644 722
    Others Corvette C8 7/18/22 12:40 PM
    WhoopsyM
    79419 443
    Motor Sp. [2022] Formula 1 8/17/22 11:54 PM
    WhoopsyM
    60158 1206
    Others Toyota Yaris GR 4/13/22 8:33 PM
    Grant
    52662 640
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/21/22 8:37 AM
    RCA
    52398 335
    200 items found, displaying 1 to 30.