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    You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6




    And the Americans actually believe this....?

    http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59234&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

    Someone with half a grain of sense correct me, I seem to be confused.

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    what exactly do you mean??

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    what exactly do you mean??

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Ok, have you read my post, and the forum link?


    HOW can a 2 Ton car with an auto, and "only" 500bhp,
    do 0-60mph quicker than a Porsche Carrera GT?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Ok, have you read my post, and the forum link?


    HOW can a 2 Ton car with an auto, and "only" 500bhp,
    do 0-60mph quicker than a Porsche Carrera GT?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    ok, that, now i know what you mean!!!

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    ok, that, now i know what you mean!!!

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    It must be a typo.
    He probaly meant 4.6 secs, which sound more believable.

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    It must be a typo.
    He probaly meant 4.6 secs, which sound more believable.

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    guys, I thought that too, but then you look at this 3.6 figure, it even refers to it over and over again in the article! Do the editors write the article, and the road testers usually come up with some bogus performance figures.?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    guys, I thought that too, but then you look at this 3.6 figure, it even refers to it over and over again in the article! Do the editors write the article, and the road testers usually come up with some bogus performance figures.?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    I'm not too familiar with 1/4 mile times but 11.9secs also sounds really far off for such a car, maybe for a stage5 996TT. The CGT's 1/4 mile is 11.6secs according to autocar. What gives?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    I'm not too familiar with 1/4 mile times but 11.9secs also sounds really far off for such a car, maybe for a stage5 996TT. The CGT's 1/4 mile is 11.6secs according to autocar. What gives?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Maybe Mercedes forgot to mention that it was actually an S65 engine in the car!

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Maybe Mercedes forgot to mention that it was actually an S65 engine in the car!

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Other magazine tests got 4.4-4.6 secs and around mid 12s for qtr mile for US SL600s which is more realistic for this 4500 lb car. Every time you stop or turn this car, that extra weight is like " carrying " 7-9 extra adults compared to a Turbo or GT2 .

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Other magazine tests got 4.4-4.6 secs and around mid 12s for qtr mile for US SL600s which is more realistic for this 4500 lb car. Every time you stop or turn this car, that extra weight is like " carrying " 7-9 extra adults compared to a Turbo or GT2 .

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    Bilal Siddiqui said:
    And the Americans actually believe this....?



    Well, you once said that for optimal road holding, a car should be no less than 1700kg in weight.......so let's not be so hard on us Americans.

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    Bilal Siddiqui said:
    And the Americans actually believe this....?



    Well, you once said that for optimal road holding, a car should be no less than 1700kg in weight.......so let's not be so hard on us Americans.

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    I never said it was for optimal handling, just that its safer to use a middle weight, since too light and the car is fidgety and unstable at speed, and too heavy, its uncontrollable on twisties.

    Now some may say 900kgs is the best, sure if handling is your priority, but sicne I don't give a damn about handling, I'm not really bothered.

    The reason I chose 1700kgs, is there is a car out there, very similar to the CGT, both in road-holding and performance, and its also rock solid at speed, it bears a Mercedes badge can you guess what it is?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    I never said it was for optimal handling, just that its safer to use a middle weight, since too light and the car is fidgety and unstable at speed, and too heavy, its uncontrollable on twisties.

    Now some may say 900kgs is the best, sure if handling is your priority, but sicne I don't give a damn about handling, I'm not really bothered.

    The reason I chose 1700kgs, is there is a car out there, very similar to the CGT, both in road-holding and performance, and its also rock solid at speed, it bears a Mercedes badge can you guess what it is?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    Bilal Siddiqui said:
    The reason I chose 1700kgs, is there is a car out there, very similar to the CGT, both in road-holding and performance, and its also rock solid at speed, it bears a Mercedes badge can you guess what it is?



    Not to be a party-pooper but what you call "rock solid at speed" is actually a fake sensation of stability which is called inertia, and thats not a good thing at speed unless you only drive in straight line and never change direction such as taking a turn or decelerating since the weight will start to work against you. And in terms of safety, when do you want to have more stabilty, when you turn and brake or when you continue on a straight line?

    Stability at speed really comes from aerodinamic downforce and bouyancy, and to a lesser degree suspension settings, low centre of gravety, low polar moment of inertia, etc. Hence, SUV infamous poor stabilty and active safety- accident avoidance capabilities compared to sedans, or the F1's and sport prototype's incredible stability that makes the stick to the ground at speed achieved through thair aerodinamics and never through adding weight. Downforce for example, will have the same effect than weight at speed in a starigh line creating greater "weight" at the expense of drag but has no ill effect on inertia or centrifugal force when taking the corner while still prioviding greater grip. If you add 700lbs to a 996TT you are not going to make it more stable and safe at high speed, but if you add the GT2's aerokit and the stiffer and lower suspensions you will. So you'd rather be in a CGT at speed. Which is closer to a sport prototype, the CGT or the SLR?

    So weight will give you a false sense of stability and solidity in straigh-line, just like softer suspensions would as they filter out all the feeling of speed and road vibration, or like a light steering that will make you numb to the feedback and nervousness of the direction giving you a fake sense of that "nothing is going on" and "tranquility-stability".

    Just my two cents

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    Bilal Siddiqui said:
    The reason I chose 1700kgs, is there is a car out there, very similar to the CGT, both in road-holding and performance, and its also rock solid at speed, it bears a Mercedes badge can you guess what it is?



    Not to be a party-pooper but what you call "rock solid at speed" is actually a fake sensation of stability which is called inertia, and thats not a good thing at speed unless you only drive in straight line and never change direction such as taking a turn or decelerating since the weight will start to work against you. And in terms of safety, when do you want to have more stabilty, when you turn and brake or when you continue on a straight line?

    Stability at speed really comes from aerodinamic downforce and bouyancy, and to a lesser degree suspension settings, low centre of gravety, low polar moment of inertia, etc. Hence, SUV infamous poor stabilty and active safety- accident avoidance capabilities compared to sedans, or the F1's and sport prototype's incredible stability that makes the stick to the ground at speed achieved through thair aerodinamics and never through adding weight. Downforce for example, will have the same effect than weight at speed in a starigh line creating greater "weight" at the expense of drag but has no ill effect on inertia or centrifugal force when taking the corner while still prioviding greater grip. If you add 700lbs to a 996TT you are not going to make it more stable and safe at high speed, but if you add the GT2's aerokit and the stiffer and lower suspensions you will. So you'd rather be in a CGT at speed. Which is closer to a sport prototype, the CGT or the SLR?

    So weight will give you a false sense of stability and solidity in straigh-line, just like softer suspensions would as they filter out all the feeling of speed and road vibration, or like a light steering that will make you numb to the feedback and nervousness of the direction giving you a fake sense of that "nothing is going on" and "tranquility-stability".

    Just my two cents

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Anyone who has driven on the Autobahn at 300 km/h knows how it feels when you have to brake suddenly or take a curve at very high speeds.

    I have done this extensively in some of my former cars the 993 Turbo,996 GT2 and the SL55.
    What you value the most at such situations is downforce which none of them really has,especially the SL55.
    The difference between a Carrera GT and these cars in that department is enormous.

    I know one place in Germany where I will try the Carrera GT extensively in this department,the autobahn section in the mountains outside Kassel.

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Anyone who has driven on the Autobahn at 300 km/h knows how it feels when you have to brake suddenly or take a curve at very high speeds.

    I have done this extensively in some of my former cars the 993 Turbo,996 GT2 and the SL55.
    What you value the most at such situations is downforce which none of them really has,especially the SL55.
    The difference between a Carrera GT and these cars in that department is enormous.

    I know one place in Germany where I will try the Carrera GT extensively in this department,the autobahn section in the mountains outside Kassel.

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    We learn somethig new everyday, don't we?


    The way you guys put it means AMG are dumb to put 500/600 HP in two ton aerodynamic cars?

    Even the S600 and Maybach are dangerous when you hear they'll do 191mph. So I guess the sense of complete composure that every journalist has been mentioning regarding the Maybach at 150mph and Jay Leno's comments about the SLR being stable at speed were all cock and bull?


    And when AMS tested the "infamous-tuned" SL55 AMG when it beat the other supercars at the time and they said something along the lines of:

    "The Murcielago felt like 400mph and the SL55 was so composed, you could even find the massage function switch while driving one handed at 200mph"

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    We learn somethig new everyday, don't we?


    The way you guys put it means AMG are dumb to put 500/600 HP in two ton aerodynamic cars?

    Even the S600 and Maybach are dangerous when you hear they'll do 191mph. So I guess the sense of complete composure that every journalist has been mentioning regarding the Maybach at 150mph and Jay Leno's comments about the SLR being stable at speed were all cock and bull?


    And when AMS tested the "infamous-tuned" SL55 AMG when it beat the other supercars at the time and they said something along the lines of:

    "The Murcielago felt like 400mph and the SL55 was so composed, you could even find the massage function switch while driving one handed at 200mph"

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    I thought Carlos explained it in a way that everyone should be able to understand.
    THERE is a difference when you talk about straight line stability AND stability when doing sudden lane changes and panic braking from high speeds.
    AND 150 mph is NOT the same as 185 mph.
    Jay Lenos experience in driving at these speeds is probably very limited to say the least.
    Unless you talk about straight line high speed driving at the Salt Lake Flats.
    Bilal, you should listen to the people who acually drive these kind of cars daily and who know what they are talking about.

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    I thought Carlos explained it in a way that everyone should be able to understand.
    THERE is a difference when you talk about straight line stability AND stability when doing sudden lane changes and panic braking from high speeds.
    AND 150 mph is NOT the same as 185 mph.
    Jay Lenos experience in driving at these speeds is probably very limited to say the least.
    Unless you talk about straight line high speed driving at the Salt Lake Flats.
    Bilal, you should listen to the people who acually drive these kind of cars daily and who know what they are talking about.

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Bilal, you Daimler-Chrysler passion and enthusiasm clouds you

    Lets compare the SL55AMG vs and the GT2 (since the same would apply to the SLR vs CGT comparisons)

    In a STRAIGHT-LINE, when cruising at high speeds or doing a top speed test the SL55AMG will give you a very stable and secure "feeling" maybe even more than the GT2 since it may "feel" more nervous, but this is a subjective sensation of stability that does not correspond with reality because the minute you have to brake hard or try to make the car change direction you will find you actually have much less stability than the GT2 hence the GT2 can take corners faster at high speed w/o running off the road for example, correct?

    This is why the SL55AMG may lead you to believe its more stable than the GT2 when cruising at high speed, but so will a Greyhound bus, but in reality its the other way around than what you "feel" :

    - the heavier mass (not same as weight) of the SL55 at speed causes it to have a greater inertia, so it wants more to keep going in the same direction and not want to change more, that will make the car less susceptible to small influences to change direction such as cross winds and bumps giving a sensation of stability, like tha car is on rails. But only in straight line, since that same desire to keep going straight will work against you when you have to decelerate or turn into the curve, so when stability really matters you have less.

    - the SL has the same drag coeficcient that the GT2 but it has positive lift (bouyancy) while the GT2 is designed with negative lift. So the higher the speeds, the SL55 will wnat to raise/lift and float as opposed to the GT2, that will greatly reduce your grip and contact to the ground.

    - The SL55 is designed with less downforce than the GT2, which while less downforce helps high speed acceleration and top speed due to the less drag, it will also have less "weight" at high speed, so the GT2 uses that drag to help stick the car to the ground. And more important, the downforce also work in the corners since it adds weight but not the negative effects of mass in the corners such as centrifugal force, weight transfer, etc. This is one of the most important aspects in high speed stability and grip, thast why is so valued in F1's and allows them to achieve such lap times. If they brake a little piece of the front lip for example during the race, their lap curve speeds will drop greatly. Due to their need and use of downforce (and the open wheel design) an F1 has the same aerodinamic drag as a BUS!

    - The SL55's steering is lighter and more numb than a GT2's, this makes the car more confortable to drive and also gives you a sense of stability, but actually what its doing is filtering out the feedback from the steering and wheels in the shape of vibration and nervousness, and this feedback is necessary to maintain a greater control of the car since it lets you know what the car is doing, the weight transfers, the grip of the wheels, the exact direcction of the car, etc and hence greater "real" stability, though it may "feel" more nervous. LAck of steering feedback is one of the thing that drives me nuts the most from a car, along with body roll.

    - the suspension and chasis setup of the SL55 are softer and more confortable than the GT2 which will filter out the irregularities of the road giving you the sensation of floating and "pose" but actually the softer and longer travel setup the less grip, handling and stability, especially at high speeds, due to the greater inertias involved.

    - The SL55 has a higher center of gravety than the GT2, while it gives it a greater ground clearance its also makes it less stable and increases the weight transfers at speed.

    - The SL55 is designed with greater sound insulation than a GT2 therefor blocking the enviromental clues of feeling of speed leading you to believe you are going slower than what you really are giving you the sensation of stability. Buts is a fake sensation from blocking you from the outside of the car. For some people it means more confort, for me it means less pleasure.

    The same can be appplied when comparing an SLR with a CGT. Or these are the same reasons why a lighter DTM CLK version is more stable at high speed than the street CLK-AMG car, though it may not "feel" that way to the average driver, but the sportcar driver will interpret the right clues of stability and will feel the DTM as more stable though more nervous. So when I hear comments in a mag that a SL55 feels like its going slower and more stable than a Murc, thats not necesary a good thing, and the writter may want to get a different job.

    I can't believe this post is so long, somebody else can probably say the same thing only needing a couple of lines... sorry

     
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