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    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    A nice video for those who still like Porsche smiley


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Very nice! wink Love these old Porsche clips. kiss Even if I cannot be a Porsche enthusiast since I don't know random Internet guy Brian.


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    bluelines:

    Very nice! wink Love these old Porsche clips. kiss Even if I cannot be a Porsche enthusiast since I don't know random Internet guy Brian.


    So you know nothing about the life of Brian? SmileySmiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Rossi:
    bluelines:

    Very nice! wink Love these old Porsche clips. kiss Even if I cannot be a Porsche enthusiast since I don't know random Internet guy Brian.


    So you know nothing about the life of Brian? SmileySmiley

    Eey, that Brian is famous Smiley No need googling him.


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    https://www.motor1.com/news/244561/daimler-used-5-defeat-devices/

    Mercedes' turn to have the diesel gate.


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Spoke to my sales person at Porsche yesterday. He was really desperate. A lot of customers do not understand the situation and are getting mad and do not believe the dealers. We at this forum know a bit of the in's en out's but the general public has now idea's about the Euro norm 6D temp issues. Specially people which had a production date of September which is now pushed back to after week 13 next year are mad. Apparently the situation of Panamera is even more confusing, for a 4S the production date is in week 27 next year. The introduction Cayenne Hybride's (at least in Belgium) is also pushed back for a few weeks. This situation must push a lot of dealers in the red figures. Perhaps after week 13 they will only produce for Europe  demand in order to satisfy the orderbook.


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    JR-550:

    Spoke to my sales person at Porsche yesterday. He was really desperate. A lot of customers do not understand the situation and are getting mad and do not believe the dealers. We at this forum know a bit of the in's en out's but the general public has now idea's about the Euro norm 6D temp issues. Specially people which had a production date of September which is now pushed back to after week 13 next year are mad. Apparently the situation of Panamera is even more confusing, for a 4S the production date is in week 27 next year. The introduction Cayenne Hybride's (at least in Belgium) is also pushed back for a few weeks. This situation must push a lot of dealers in the red figures. Perhaps after week 13 they will only produce for Europe  demand in order to satisfy the orderbook.

    SmileyYes, very sad situation, especially considering the fact that dealers/sales staff are surely not to blame for this mess.

    Porsche should offer lease incentives, whatever, to "ease the pain" but when I saw that lease offer I got lately for a 991.2 Turbo S or Turbo S Convertible, I was like "What? For this kind of money, I can get a Huracan or Huracan Spyder...without any special lease deals". I feel for my sales guy but I cannot take a car I clearly don't need just to do him a favor. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    The salesguy I have been working with on my T-order was not that negative. He said they basically will have to survive without new cars coming in for 2 months (1 month would be normal anyway due to the factory closure during summer vacation): "normally we have both halfs of the roll covered with tasty ham, this year it will be only one half" broken heart  He also mentioned that they have a high number of pre-orders for the Taycan.


    --

    Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Porsche-Jeck:

    The salesguy I have been working with on my T-order was not that negative. He said they basically will have to survive without new cars coming in for 2 months (1 month would be normal anyway due to the factory closure during summer vacation): "normally we have both halfs of the roll covered with tasty ham, this year it will be only one half" broken heart  He also mentioned that they have a high number of pre-orders for the Taycan.

    Without new cars coming in for 2 months? Your sales guy is an optimist. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    RC:

     

    Without new cars coming in for 2 months? Your sales guy is an optimist. Smiley

    Some optimism can't harm in these turbulent days at Porsche Smiley Guess he was referring to the 991.2 models with particle filter only.


    --

    Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Porsche-Jeck:
    RC:

     

    Without new cars coming in for 2 months? Your sales guy is an optimist. Smiley

    Some optimism can't harm in these turbulent days at Porsche Smiley Guess he was referring to the 991.2 models with particle filter only.

    It is really bad right now...still surprised I haven't received some crazy ass offers from my dealer (who usually isn't shy to offer the craziest deals). Well, maybe it is too early... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    RC:
    Well, maybe it is too early... Smiley Smiley

    Yes, timing is everything Smiley I recently did a quick & dirty calculation: showroom cars (991) in the german PZs equal about 2 months of new car registrations - now you have an idea when the "last order" ring will bell Smiley


    --

    Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    In Stuttgart tonight and going to the factory and museum tomorrow for a tour (first time) so it will be interesting to see what is on the floor.

    Pretty much criss-crossed Germany today. After 2 days at the British Tank Museum in Bovington today we came across to Munster between Hannover and Hamburg to see their impressive collection of WW2 and Cold War tanks and armoured vehicles.

    My first drive on the unrestricted autobahns which was quite the experience. We saw one Porsche transporter on the road north to Hamburg - lots of T’s and GT3 Tourings, Could not see if they were LHD or RHD but odds are they are off to the US I guess if heading to the sea port.


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Welcome to Germany. Smiley Smiley

    Careful: The Autobahn may be unrestricted in some parts but when there is a speed limit (often indicated by electronic speed signs), you better be careful. Also lots of video surveillance cars on the Autobahn, driving behind you and checking your speed and behavior. There are also often distance measurement cameras at bridges (the ones spanning over the Autobahn, even small ones) and this can get pretty expensive. Just saying...I assume you have a rental and rental companies usually charge their customers for traffic tickets.

    Back to the sales "stop" in Europe: Pretty bad for dealers right now, especially for sales persons. They basically make no living and have to live off their base salaries (which aren't great) and savings. Some larger dealerships seem to have promised to somehow compensate their sales persons for their losses but others seem to be in a legal fight with their sales persons because of that. Not pretty right now I think. Smiley

    It doesn't only affect Porsche: My Audi sales guy just quit his job because he didn't see any perspective in the near future. He wanted to switch to Porsche or Lamborghini but his boss said he doesn't need him there. Amazing and very pleasant guy, wonderful person and extremely customer oriented (Americans would love him), I tried to get him a job with my Porsche dealer but right now, they are not looking for new sales personell, which is understandable. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    well, as per official communicate, there is no such issue smiley

    they didn't stop anything so why sales guy are complaining? enlightened

    2018 is definitely not a good year for PAG, big mess on every possible layer...mail

     


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    I've noticed that as from July 2018 the advertised CO2 and fuel consumption figures have gone up. At least for BMW that I checked.

    Is this due to any new and revised measurement methods now in force

    When I asked at the dealership they said measurements are now done on the road not through a static simulation, but I am not sure they know!

    If true, probably these changes are holding back Porsche production and sales.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    reginos:

    I've noticed that as from July 2018 the advertised CO2 and fuel consumption figures have gone up. At least for BMW that I checked.

    Is this due to any new and revised measurement methods now in force

    When I asked at the dealership they said measurements are now done on the road not through a static simulation, but I am not sure they know!

    If true, probably these changes are holding back Porsche production and sales.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     

    the new system is to be shown from 1st of Jan, 2019.

    they have both method in place, new car model get the new method, dying model is still granted 1 full year to advertised as per old method. example, 991 with 3RS and Speedster are dying model they will follow the old method.

    992 is new model, they will follow new method.

    so expect CO2 ad to be up during the coming month for any type of cars and then starting to go down again with upgrades and so on.

     

    new method is done with selected options rather than base model, more kms, more speed, blablabla...


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    reginos:

    I've noticed that as from July 2018 the advertised CO2 and fuel consumption figures have gone up. At least for BMW that I checked.

    Is this due to any new and revised measurement methods now in force

    When I asked at the dealership they said measurements are now done on the road not through a static simulation, but I am not sure they know!

    If true, probably these changes are holding back Porsche production and sales.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     

    I thought I made it already clear what is holding them back: (Re)Certification and particulate filters. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    the-missile:
    reginos:

    I've noticed that as from July 2018 the advertised CO2 and fuel consumption figures have gone up. At least for BMW that I checked.

    Is this due to any new and revised measurement methods now in force

    When I asked at the dealership they said measurements are now done on the road not through a static simulation, but I am not sure they know!

    If true, probably these changes are holding back Porsche production and sales.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     

    the new system is to be shown from 1st of Jan, 2019.

    they have both method in place, new car model get the new method, dying model is still granted 1 full year to advertised as per old method. example, 991 with 3RS and Speedster are dying model they will follow the old method.

    992 is new model, they will follow new method.

    so expect CO2 ad to be up during the coming month for any type of cars and then starting to go down again with upgrades and so on.

     

    new method is done with selected options rather than base model, more kms, more speed, blablabla...

    BMW are installing the new engines with particulate filters as from 1/7/2018. So, although the models are pre-existing they are now advertising on the basis of the new method. Unless the particulate filters increase CO2 and consumption under the old method or a new engine on an existing model automatically defines it as new.

    I had a 2-series coupe on order and it was held back awaiting the new engine but now the measurements are not as favourable as a month ago!


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    you are mixing particulate filter which is mandatory requirement from 1st september and method of measurement.

    2 different subjects but both related to emission laws.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    the-missile:

    you are mixing particulate filter which is mandatory requirement from 1st september and method of measurement.

    2 different subjects but both related to emission laws.

    Thank you for clarifying!


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    RC:

    Welcome to Germany. Smiley Smiley

    Careful: The Autobahn may be unrestricted in some parts but when there is a speed limit (often indicated by electronic speed signs), you better be careful. Also lots of video surveillance cars on the Autobahn, driving behind you and checking your speed and behavior. There are also often distance measurement cameras at bridges (the ones spanning over the Autobahn, even small ones) and this can get pretty expensive. Just saying...I assume you have a rental and rental companies usually charge their customers for traffic tickets.

    Back to the sales "stop" in Europe: Pretty bad for dealers right now, especially for sales persons. They basically make no living and have to live off their base salaries (which aren't great) and savings. Some larger dealerships seem to have promised to somehow compensate their sales persons for their losses but others seem to be in a legal fight with their sales persons because of that. Not pretty right now I think. Smiley

    It doesn't only affect Porsche: My Audi sales guy just quit his job because he didn't see any perspective in the near future. He wanted to switch to Porsche or Lamborghini but his boss said he doesn't need him there. Amazing and very pleasant guy, wonderful person and extremely customer oriented (Americans would love him), I tried to get him a job with my Porsche dealer but right now, they are not looking for new sales personell, which is understandable. 

     

    Thx RC

    Possible I may be making a contribution to your country’s balance sheet but it was worth it!

    Have had 2 rentals so far. A 3 series estate was surprisingly light at speed. Not a problem but not what I would have expected. The E class Benz was much more securely planted on the road and a more pleasant high speed cruiser.


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    New BMWs are truly awful, you expect more.from them but they give less handling, steering and braking every year. I am convinced they pay fat women at the Iowa fare to approve the handling after a 10 second drive in a dirt parking lot.


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    JimFlat6:

    New BMWs are truly awful, you expect more.from them but they give less handling, steering and braking every year. I am convinced they pay fat women at the Iowa fare to approve the handling after a 10 second drive in a dirt parking lot.

    I kind of agree... Just had a 440i Convertible as a loaner for some days. Your above comment perfectly describes my feelings about this car.


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    MKSGR:
    JimFlat6:

    New BMWs are truly awful, you expect more.from them but they give less handling, steering and braking every year. I am convinced they pay fat women at the Iowa fare to approve the handling after a 10 second drive in a dirt parking lot.

    I kind of agree... Just had a 440i Convertible as a loaner for some days. Your above comment perfectly describes my feelings about this car.

    The only BMW I really respect right now is the new M5. All other BMWs don't exist for me, sorry. Smiley Oh wait, the current M2 isn't that bad either. BWMs are boring, they don't attract me. I really loved BMW in the past but now, they kind of lost their "coolness". Smiley

    The new 8 series is just hideous and the X7 isn't much different.

    My son wants a BMW 2 series (Coupe) when he gets his driver's license but he is almost 15, so it may take a while. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    RC:
    MKSGR:
    JimFlat6:

    New BMWs are truly awful, you expect more.from them but they give less handling, steering and braking every year. I am convinced they pay fat women at the Iowa fare to approve the handling after a 10 second drive in a dirt parking lot.

    I kind of agree... Just had a 440i Convertible as a loaner for some days. Your above comment perfectly describes my feelings about this car.

    The only BMW I really respect right now is the new M5. All other BMWs don't exist for me, sorry. Smiley Oh wait, the current M2 isn't that bad either. BWMs are boring, they don't attract me. I really loved BMW in the past but now, they kind of lost their "coolness". Smiley

    The new 8 series is just hideous and the X7 isn't much different.

    My son wants a BMW 2 series (Coupe) when he gets his driver's license but he is almost 15, so it may take a while. Smiley

    Smiley I have a 2 series coupe on order. An entry model to replace the VW Polo (the one with the DSG damage) as a car for my daily routines. I found the test car very adequate and pleasant and I liked the 8 speed torque converter automatic which is very smooth and quick changing. You don't need dual clutch if the gearbox is so good, for this kind of car.  I was attracted to the design because it reminded me of the 1980s E30 that I owned and loved.

    In the context of my visits to the BMW Centre I had a chance to drive the M2, which I found very sporty and fun. A true sports BMW in the classic mould, IMO. No matter how good it is, the M2 is no comparison to Porsche; but if you like what the 911 has to offer nothing else will do, especially since the 911 covers a very wide range from 100.000 EUR to 300.000 EUR and from 370PS to 700PS that covers all possible budgets and requirements.

    I also drove the new X2, the FWD model which offers very good handling, good brakes and excellent steering. Overall I found it a better drive than comparable cars from Audi and M-B.

    The new M5 is also a huge hit, from what I read. So, after all BMWs still make some good cars Smiley


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    They could suspend this too, but forever


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    The Cayenne Coupe angry

    Definitely pointless to Porsche fans but it will bring in the cash. See how many of the Mercedes and BMW "SUV coupes" circulate.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    Enzo II:

    They could suspend this too, but forever

    Why should they? It uses the same platform other models use, makes only sense to keep it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Suspends All Sales of New Cars in Europe

    It's ugly as hell


     
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