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    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    BTW performance at the level of Ferrari or TT,GT2, GT3 is irrelevant for public driving. If you get your jollies off knowing the GT2 does the Ring in 7.31 have the time stenciled on your windshield. See how many people are impressed.




    Well-informed people would not be one little bit impressed, Nick.

    They'd know it was a lie.

    The correct time is 7' 32".

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:

    Those who know cars know speed is not what a car is all about.



    I guess most sportscar lovers can agree with that, but it seems (judging from your statement in bold letters) that for you it's all about: look I can afford an F-car, my neighbour in the P can't

    Though I agree with you, that for driving in real world conditions NBR-times are irrelevant. W. Röhrl, commenting on the performance of the CGT said: every owner who is sane in his head will use max. 50% of the car's capabilities on public roads.
    Hence the buying decision for 99% of the buyers (maybe except hardcore track junkies) is based on other facts - IMO primarily on how well the entire package fits the owners feeling of driving pleasure and driving skills (both very subjective parameters).

    Having said that, NBR-times still are an important indicator about any car's performance - of course no mortal driver is able to fully use this capabilities, but they may think: my car would, if I could Those NBR-numbers are good for the carmakers' marketing departments as well for the ego of some owners



    My point is that those of us who own Ferrari's can easily own Porsche's. We choose not to.



    Can you say projection? P and F ownership is the best of both worlds


    pro.jec.tion


    Psychology.

    1. The attribution of one's own attitudes, feelings, or suppositions to others: "Even trained anthropologists have been guilty of unconscious projection-of clothing the subjects of their research in theories brought with them into the field" (Alex Shoumatoff).
    2. The attribution of one's own attitudes, feelings, or desires to someone or something as a naive or unconscious defense against anxiety or guilt.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    Can you say projection? P and F ownership is the best of both worlds



    P for during the week, F for during the weekend.

    SrfCty, I thought you sold your 997S. If so, are you getting another Porsche soon?

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    Can you say projection? P and F ownership is the best of both worlds



    P for during the week, F for during the weekend.

    SrfCty, I thought you sold your 997S. If so, are you getting another Porsche soon?



    Correct, but then bought a GT3 a few months back

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    Can you say projection? P and F ownership is the best of both worlds



    P for during the week, F for during the weekend.



    Best of both worlds.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    Can you say projection? P and F ownership is the best of both worlds



    P for during the week, F for during the weekend.

    SrfCty, I thought you sold your 997S. If so, are you getting another Porsche soon?



    Correct, but then bought a GT3 a few months back



    Congratulations. Didn't hear a word about this.

    What color? I'm guessing black/black. Did you get it from Circle again?

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Thanks. Yea, blk/blk. From back East.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    ALL FERRARI OWNERS CAN AFFORD TO BUY A PORSCHE IF THEY CHOSE TO DO SO. HOWEVER, NOT ALL PORSCHE OWNERS CAN AFFORD TO BUY A FERRARI EVEN IF THEY WANTED ONE!





    You are a prime example of an egotistical f-car owner.

    ALL porsche owners can buy a ferrari, such as the magnum pi model. The f-car owners with the magnum pi models can also afford a porsche, but maybe only a boxster

    One thing I love about your posts is that you ALWAYS leave yourself open to comebacks against your posts. That must be your egotistical side craving for attention

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    It has nothing to do with ego. My daily drive car is a Mini. Most on this forum drive their PORSCHE'S to work. I have one question for you to answer.

    WHO HAS THE EGO? THE PERSON WHO DRIVES AN UNASSUMING CAR ON A DAILY BASIS DESPITE OWNING THE MOST COVETED CAR IN THE WORLD OR THE PERSON THAT DRIVES A HIGH PERFORMANCE PORSCHE ON A DAILY BASIS? TRY TO BE HONEST WITH YOUR RESPONSE. YOUR CREDIBILITY IS AT STAKE.

    Regarding leaving myself open, your comments are not new but nevertheless as humorous. However, I will acknowledge that some Porsche owners could afford a 20 year old Ferrari but my discussion was based on new Ferrari's.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Those who know cars know speed is not what a car is all about. Darn right. In rural areas it is the brakes!

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    .... THE PERSON WHO DRIVES AN UNASSUMING CAR ON A DAILY BASIS DESPITE OWNING THE MOST COVETED CAR IN THE WORLD .....



    Nick, you make that guy sound like he really has some problems.


    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    It has nothing to do with ego. My daily drive car is a Mini. Most on this forum drive their PORSCHE'S to work. I have one question for you to answer.

    WHO HAS THE EGO? THE PERSON WHO DRIVES AN UNASSUMING CAR ON A DAILY BASIS DESPITE OWNING THE MOST COVETED CAR IN THE WORLD OR THE PERSON THAT DRIVES A HIGH PERFORMANCE PORSCHE ON A DAILY BASIS? TRY TO BE HONEST WITH YOUR RESPONSE. YOUR CREDIBILITY IS AT STAKE.

    Regarding leaving myself open, your comments are not new but nevertheless as humorous. However, I will acknowledge that some Porsche owners could afford a 20 year old Ferrari but my discussion was based on new Ferrari's.



    It's fine to drive a Mini on a daily basis. Not everybody can afford a Porsche as a daily driver

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    WHO HAS THE EGO? THE PERSON WHO DRIVES AN UNASSUMING CAR ON A DAILY BASIS DESPITE OWNING THE MOST COVETED CAR IN THE WORLD





    Perhaps it's the guy who needs to remind everyone of this??

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Compared to other buff boards, I find most of the long time ,multiple Porsche owners ( like me ) who participate here on Rennteam freely give of positive AND negative opinions of all things Porsche ! Most of us have been around long enough and have enjoyed enough of life's pleasures to realize there are many wonderful gems ( and turkeys )in every manufacturers lineup over time and we sample and enjoy many brands. I don't understand the love Chevy /must knock Ford; love Porsche/must knock Ferrari:love BMW/must knock Audi;love MBZ/must knock Lexus blah blah blah everywhere.I suspect most of us have or will own all these brands over time. Happens whether talking cars, TV, kitchen appliances , you name it . It's such a curious part of our high consumption culture.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    It has nothing to do with ego. My daily drive car is a Mini. Most on this forum drive their PORSCHE'S to work. I have one question for you to answer.

    WHO HAS THE EGO? THE PERSON WHO DRIVES AN UNASSUMING CAR ON A DAILY BASIS DESPITE OWNING THE MOST COVETED CAR IN THE WORLD OR THE PERSON THAT DRIVES A HIGH PERFORMANCE PORSCHE ON A DAILY BASIS? TRY TO BE HONEST WITH YOUR RESPONSE. YOUR CREDIBILITY IS AT STAKE.

    Regarding leaving myself open, your comments are not new but nevertheless as humorous. However, I will acknowledge that some Porsche owners could afford a 20 year old Ferrari but my discussion was based on new Ferrari's.



    You didn't say NEW ferrari, you just said ferrari.

    How is driving a porsche to work egotistical?
    Telling people you drive a mini to work despite owning the "most coveted car in the world" (your opinion) is egotistical.

    I would think that if most car enthusiasts were asked which car is the most coveted, I bet I would hear something along the lines of the Veyron

    Keep em' coming nick

    By the way, I hope your not a "defense" lawyer

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    JP66 said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    It has nothing to do with ego. My daily drive car is a Mini. Most on this forum drive their PORSCHE'S to work. I have one question for you to answer.

    WHO HAS THE EGO? THE PERSON WHO DRIVES AN UNASSUMING CAR ON A DAILY BASIS DESPITE OWNING THE MOST COVETED CAR IN THE WORLD OR THE PERSON THAT DRIVES A HIGH PERFORMANCE PORSCHE ON A DAILY BASIS? TRY TO BE HONEST WITH YOUR RESPONSE. YOUR CREDIBILITY IS AT STAKE.

    Regarding leaving myself open, your comments are not new but nevertheless as humorous. However, I will acknowledge that some Porsche owners could afford a 20 year old Ferrari but my discussion was based on new Ferrari's.



    You didn't say NEW ferrari, you just said ferrari.

    How is driving a porsche to work egotistical?
    Telling people you drive a mini to work despite owning the "most coveted car in the world" (your opinion) is egotistical.

    I would think that if most car enthusiasts were asked which car is the most coveted, I bet I would hear something along the lines of the Veyron

    Keep em' coming nick

    By the way, I hope your not a "defense" lawyer



    Hmnn you are a little slow. Let me give you a hand.

    First, there is no reason for a high performance sport car to be driven to work. It is foolish, stupid and vane. It cries out look at me "I am a wannabe racer (see the tail on my trunk/oops hood)? What do you think of me?"

    The most coveted car in world has a waiting list for beyond production. Yet people wait, hoping and praying their number will be called. Some do not wish to wait so they happily pay abour $75,000 over MSRP even for a used one.

    As far as my abilities as a lawyer, it is save to say I am considered one of the worst in the county. Take pity on me.

    BTW, you never answered my question.

    FWIW, this discussion never had anything to do with comparing Ferrari to Porsche. I agree they different cars for different people. They both have their good and bad features. My ONLY point was Ferrari owners could buy a Porsche if they wanted one. The opposite is not true.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    " people who can afford a 911 Turbo can easily afford a ferrari as well.....it's other reasons that make one opt for one marque rather than the other... "

    Not in the US. A Ferrari is usually 30 to 50% more costly than the base 997TT.




    Who cares about the price, what matters is 1/2/3 years depreciation.

    So ANY new Porsche owner could buy a new Ferrari at MSRP considering the zero depreciation of Fs...

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    I agree !!!!! but what ist Porsche ???????

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    First, there is no reason for a high performance sport car to be driven to work.



    This statement is clearly incorrect Everything depends on where you work

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Socioeconomics of even new F/P/AMG buyers vary too dramatically to make useful generalizations....

    Would guess that, even in the powerful SF/Greenwich/BevHills mkts, there are perhaps only 10-15 guys in each region who consistently get both a new 599 and 65-equivalent every 6-12mos for commuting and wkends....1000's of guys in SF/NYC/LA could easily afford to commute via <1yo 599/65, but 95%++ of guys w/needed resources aren't car guys....

    Suspect choice of commuter car vs wkend car for any analytic, non-resource-constrained car guy is largely a risk/reward decision based upon overall safety/performance balance....fairly elementary risk/reward decisions, no? And based upon my anecdotal sample set, guys w/both 599 and CL63 (and who will migrate soon to Scud and CL65 ) seem to drive CL some 80-90% of time, both on wkdays and wkends....

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    WBH said:
    Would guess that, even in the powerful SF/Greenwich/BevHills mkts, there are perhaps only 10-15 guys in each region who consistently get both a new 599 and 65-equivalent every 6-12mos for commuting and wkends....1000's of guys in SF/NYC/LA could easily afford to commute via <1yo 599/65, but 95%++ of guys w/needed resources aren't car guys....




    Interesting that car nuts in your area tend to swap their cars that often. Based on my experience one can be happy if a new car has no serious bugs. If a car is flawless I would be quite reluctant to give it away after 6-12 months already

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    WBH said:
    Would guess that, even in the powerful SF/Greenwich/BevHills mkts, there are perhaps only 10-15 guys in each region who consistently get both a new 599 and 65-equivalent every 6-12mos for commuting and wkends....1000's of guys in SF/NYC/LA could easily afford to commute via <1yo 599/65, but 95%++ of guys w/needed resources aren't car guys....




    Interesting that car nuts in your area tend to swap their cars that often. Based on my experience one can be happy if a new car has no serious bugs. If a car is flawless I would be quite reluctant to give it away after 6-12 months already



    Agreed. Did you know that Russians prefer to buy used Volgas (brand of car) to new ones, because the used ones usually have all the bugs sorted out already?

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    " people who can afford a 911 Turbo can easily afford a ferrari as well.....it's other reasons that make one opt for one marque rather than the other... "

    Not in the US. A Ferrari is usually 30 to 50% more costly than the base 997TT.




    Who cares about the price, what matters is 1/2/3 years depreciation.

    So ANY new Porsche owner could buy a new Ferrari at MSRP considering the zero depreciation of Fs...



    nick has made both sides of this argument depending on the topic... so don't take him too seriously

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    I own an F430 Spider, Twin Turbo, Phantom and Quattroporte. I am so egotistical that I drive all 4 cars to work...sometimes all on the same day .

    But let's be honest. A brand new TT cab costs ~140K whereas a brand new F430 Spider costs ~350K (the REAL market price). So you can buy 2 1/2 TT cabs for each F430 Spider, thus confirming nberry's argument. Here in Bev Hills, a Porsche is common as a Camry elsewhere whereas a Ferrari is still rare.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    joo22us said:
    I own an F430 Spider, Twin Turbo, Phantom and Quattroporte. I am so egotistical that I drive all 4 cars to work...sometimes all on the same day .

    But let's be honest. A brand new TT cab costs ~140K whereas a brand new F430 Spider costs ~350K (the REAL market price). So you can buy 2 1/2 TT cabs for each F430 Spider, thus confirming nberry's argument. Here in Bev Hills, a Porsche is common as a Camry elsewhere whereas a Ferrari is still rare.




    and why on earth would i pay 350k if i am only getting 170k worth's........

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    WBH said:
    Would guess that, even in the powerful SF/Greenwich/BevHills mkts, there are perhaps only 10-15 guys in each region who consistently get both a new 599 and 65-equivalent every 6-12mos for commuting and wkends....1000's of guys in SF/NYC/LA could easily afford to commute via <1yo 599/65, but 95%++ of guys w/needed resources aren't car guys....




    Interesting that car nuts in your area tend to swap their cars that often. Based on my experience one can be happy if a new car has no serious bugs. If a car is flawless I would be quite reluctant to give it away after 6-12 months already



    Agreed. Did you know that Russians prefer to buy used Volgas (brand of car) to new ones, because the used ones usually have all the bugs sorted out already?



    I have heard the same about BMW buyers!


    (Just kidding )

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    thuggy said:
    nick has made both sides of this argument depending on the topic...



    Yeh, Nick does that all the time.

    Without even realizing it.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    If you can get me a brand new F430 Spider for 170K, get me 100 of them. I'll take them all day.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Fchat is great for getting the newest information about Ferrari, no doubt about it. And there are also some very interesting and well informed people there. But it seems as if all other cars that don't have the prancing horse on the bonnet are only second class in that community.

    We don't have such problems at rennteam, that's why I like that forum so much. Sure, the main subjects are about Porsche and sometimes, but only very, very rarely some Porsche-die-hard feels the need to defend the reputation of Stuttgart Zuffenhausen, especially when some strange user with an even more strange bouncing Italian stallion in the avatar dare to post at the 997tt forum.

    But these problems are really negligible and that's what so great about rennteam: fair an objective discussions about all kind of sports cars.





    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    joo22us said:
    If you can get me a brand new F430 Spider for 170K, get me 100 of them. I'll take them all day.



    I'll take all of them at that price!

     
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