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    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    Then why the animus leveled towards Metcalfe?


    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    Whoopsy:

    And I haven't change tune ever. 

    EV adoption is always about infrastructure. The cars themselves are all good enough. The general public consumers will always compare how convenient it is to 'refuel' and EV on the go as oppose to a normal car. 

    There is a reason why hybrids sales are up, the public realize a hybrid can be refuelled just like a normal car yet have all the conveniences of an EV.

    And charging at home beats refueling hands down. 
    Any comment from you on the current lack of batteries? The cars are good enough but not if they can’t make them. It is a matter of lining up the types of buyers (those who can charge at home) with the improvements you mention. 

    Tesla keeps very good track of where and how how their chargers are used.  Including what % charge at home.  Why do you think they gave away free supercharging early on?   Rich people have houses and fly for long trips.

    I guarantee you they know precisely when to build superchargers and where for their fleet. 

    Hybrids suck - no need for them or their complexity once you can charge at home.  There is no point. It’s like mixing a ham sandwich and a shit sandwich. But that is just my humble opinion.   


    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    CGX car nut:

    Then why the animus leveled towards Metcalfe?


    It's the way he starts off the video by stating the qualifiers first.


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    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    And I haven't change tune ever. 

    EV adoption is always about infrastructure. The cars themselves are all good enough. The general public consumers will always compare how convenient it is to 'refuel' and EV on the go as oppose to a normal car. 

    There is a reason why hybrids sales are up, the public realize a hybrid can be refuelled just like a normal car yet have all the conveniences of an EV.

    And charging at home beats refueling hands down. 
    Any comment from you on the current lack of batteries? The cars are good enough but not if they can’t make them. It is a matter of lining up the types of buyers (those who can charge at home) with the improvements you mention. 

    Tesla keeps very good track of where and how how their chargers are used.  Including what % charge at home.  Why do you think they gave away free supercharging early on?   Rich people have houses and fly for long trips.

    I guarantee you they know precisely when to build superchargers and where for their fleet. 

    Hybrids suck - no need for them or their complexity once you can charge at home.  There is no point. It’s like mixing a ham sandwich and a shit sandwich. But that is just my humble opinion.   

     

    Do we have to go through the same thing again? Not everyone can charge at home for various reasons. One could be living in a multi-million town house in central London but have to park their cars on the street out front without access to a plug you know? Or in Manhattan. Or Hong Kong. Or Tokyo. Literally billions of people don't live in a detached house with easy access to wiring in a charging plug.

    Tesla's data collected is flawed. Right now those buying EVs are still a tiny percentage of the car buying public, and those that picked Teslas are a even smaller subset of that as they are mostly early adopters that don't mind changing their routines in order to use a Tesla, not unlike any other tech early adopters that play around with say beta software and just accept the bugs as fact of life. 

    Hybrids are never the future, it is the 'now' car. It is the bridge product between normal cars and EVs. The moment EV infrastructure caught up, there will be no need for hybrids. But we aren't there yet. 

     


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    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    I ask the same question because you always talk around the point.  Not enough batteries. This is the roadblock. 
    Any thoughts on how far behind we are in producing batteries?  I get that there are many places where you can’t charge but we have not come close to tapping the home charging customer base.  You are concerned about people who can’t charge at home and I am concerned about not having even close to enough batteries for those who can charge at home.  Do you get the difference?  In other words - why teach people in the desert to swim when only a fraction of those near water have learned?  
    And by tesla gathering charging stats I mean that they know exactly when where and how all their fleet is charging. There is no dispute about that so I’m not certain what is flawed. 
    In the end the infrastructure needed is charging where you park your car. Trying to emulate the way or speed gas engines fill up is a fools errand. Especially when cars spend 90% of their time sitting around. It is not like there is no electricity available where people live.  And if there is then bi directional and grid load balancing is going to follow soon. 
    Superchargers, which are much more expensive than charging at home will be used infrequently.  If you could fuel for 1/3 the cost at home would you ever go out of your way to sit around, wait and pay more?  How on earth do you expect investment in such a flawed proposal? Are they going to count on apartment owners who have no electric service?  Imagine how long it will take for all apartments to have charging for all owners cars given the cost and hassle of superchargers?  Not a good investment. 


    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    Whoopsy:

    And I haven't change tune ever. 

    EV adoption is always about infrastructure. The cars themselves are all good enough. The general public consumers will always compare how convenient it is to 'refuel' and EV on the go as oppose to a normal car. 

    There is a reason why hybrids sales are up, the public realize a hybrid can be refuelled just like a normal car yet have all the conveniences of an EV.

    Hybrid cars are a tax system arbitrage option at least in Europe.


    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    Leawood911:

    I ask the same question because you always talk around the point.  Not enough batteries. This is the roadblock. 
    Any thoughts on how far behind we are in producing batteries?  I get that there are many places where you can’t charge but we have not come close to tapping the home charging customer base.  You are concerned about people who can’t charge at home and I am concerned about not having even close to enough batteries for those who can charge at home.  Do you get the difference?  In other words - why teach people in the desert to swim when only a fraction of those near water have learned?  
    And by tesla gathering charging stats I mean that they know exactly when where and how all their fleet is charging. There is no dispute about that so I’m not certain what is flawed. 
    In the end the infrastructure needed is charging where you park your car. Trying to emulate the way or speed gas engines fill up is a fools errand. Especially when cars spend 90% of their time sitting around. It is not like there is no electricity available where people live.  And if there is then bi directional and grid load balancing is going to follow soon. 
    Superchargers, which are much more expensive than charging at home will be used infrequently.  If you could fuel for 1/3 the cost at home would you ever go out of your way to sit around, wait and pay more?  How on earth do you expect investment in such a flawed proposal? Are they going to count on apartment owners who have no electric service?  Imagine how long it will take for all apartments to have charging for all owners cars given the cost and hassle of superchargers?  Not a good investment. 

     

    Look outside, see the forest, you can't just stare at a single tree all day.

    If the infrastructure is there for convenience charging, there is no need to put so many batteries in a car. That means the same amount of batteries can build more cars. And with less batteries EV becomes lighter, and lighter car is more efficient and they can go farther.  Instead of 100kW pack, perhaps a 70kW or even a 60kW pack will do. Instant weight savings. 

    Where is the down side to investing on infrastructure as oppose to building more batteries but keep the same falling behind infrastructure?

    Just because someone lives in a desert doesn't means they don't fly out to tropical island by the sea for vacations and such. You ever heard the story of the Jamaican bobsled team? 

    Stop buying into Elon's idea of not enough batteries for his cars. EV currently needs lots of batteries simply because the charging infrastructure isn't there yet.

     


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    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    I love your analogies.  I appreciate your time to craft your responses.
     Imagine going out to charge your cell phone, in the cold, in line, because the battery was too small.  How many people would have cell phones if you had to charge this way?  Would making more of these charging stations speed adoption more than simply charging at home while sleeping?
    It you had to do this don’t you think people would quickly find a way to charge it at home.

    You make a fine point about battery size but it is really charging speed or supercharging which is not important when charging at home and that bi directional charging keeps everything else running on cheap, load balancer, power.  Batteries will make huge advances as well.   You want to ignore this, stick with small batteries and tons of public charging.  Quite an opposite reality.  In my view battery capacity will increase, charging speed will improve and motors will gain power and efficiency. None of that implies that lack of supercharging is the bottleneck.  It’s the next blockbuster video.

    How much do you want to invest in a process which will likely be done at home, like your cell phone, in the near future?

    Battery tech and charging tech will change much quicker in the next five years than gas stations have in the last 80 years. How much do you want to bet on this and invest in it?  Blockbuster much? And you want to force tax dollars to pay for this temp tech?
     

    You still think of electric power as gasoline even though you have undoubtedly tons of electric appliances at home you don’t go out and charge. Hello. Talk about trees in your forest.  


    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    Fast charging is not a solution because it will degrade the EV's battery faster. The solution is not to force people to adopt EV unless they have parking spot with a plug available. In Japan you can't buy a car unless you have private parking available.


    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    Leawood911:

    I love your analogies.  I appreciate your time to craft your responses.
     Imagine going out to charge your cell phone, in the cold, in line, because the battery was too small.  How many people would have cell phones if you had to charge this way?  Would making more of these charging stations speed adoption more than simply charging at home while sleeping?
    It you had to do this don’t you think people would quickly find a way to charge it at home.

    You make a fine point about battery size but it is really charging speed or supercharging which is not important when charging at home and that bi directional charging keeps everything else running on cheap, load balancer, power.  Batteries will make huge advances as well.   You want to ignore this, stick with small batteries and tons of public charging.  Quite an opposite reality.  In my view battery capacity will increase, charging speed will improve and motors will gain power and efficiency. None of that implies that lack of supercharging is the bottleneck.  It’s the next blockbuster video.

    How much do you want to invest in a process which will likely be done at home, like your cell phone, in the near future?

    Battery tech and charging tech will change much quicker in the next five years than gas stations have in the last 80 years. How much do you want to bet on this and invest in it?  Blockbuster much? And you want to force tax dollars to pay for this temp tech?
     

    You still think of electric power as gasoline even though you have undoubtedly tons of electric appliances at home you don’t go out and charge. Hello. Talk about trees in your forest.  

    I am not an expert on the field but battery tech has already advanced because of mobile phones (iPhones etc.) and the battery management tech they introduced. EVs batteries are just the packaging and cooling of smaller batteries.


    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    Leawood911:

    I love your analogies.  I appreciate your time to craft your responses.
     Imagine going out to charge your cell phone, in the cold, in line, because the battery was too small.  How many people would have cell phones if you had to charge this way?  Would making more of these charging stations speed adoption more than simply charging at home while sleeping?
    It you had to do this don’t you think people would quickly find a way to charge it at home.

    You make a fine point about battery size but it is really charging speed or supercharging which is not important when charging at home and that bi directional charging keeps everything else running on cheap, load balancer, power.  Batteries will make huge advances as well.   You want to ignore this, stick with small batteries and tons of public charging.  Quite an opposite reality.  In my view battery capacity will increase, charging speed will improve and motors will gain power and efficiency. None of that implies that lack of supercharging is the bottleneck.  It’s the next blockbuster video.

    How much do you want to invest in a process which will likely be done at home, like your cell phone, in the near future?

    Battery tech and charging tech will change much quicker in the next five years than gas stations have in the last 80 years. How much do you want to bet on this and invest in it?  Blockbuster much? And you want to force tax dollars to pay for this temp tech?
     

    You still think of electric power as gasoline even though you have undoubtedly tons of electric appliances at home you don’t go out and charge. Hello. Talk about trees in your forest.  

     

    You are really stuck up on home charging is the solution to all things. Smiley

    You and I have the luxury of charging at home, it doesn't mean everyone also have that luxury.

    We can all charge cell phones at home cause people have wall plugs inside their home no matter if they live in a house or a town house or apartments. And they don't worry about battery life because they can conveniently top up their phones on the go, either via a battery bank or inside their cars or even at Starbucks. Most don't worry about forgetting charging their phone overnight as they can just pop into their car and charge it there.

    Having numerous public charger is exactly the same thing. When you can charge up a EV as convenient as topping up a fuel tank, no one will worry about EV range. Do you worry about your 911's range? No. Cause it as easy as popping into a gas station around the corner and fill it up.

    Advancing battery tech and more EV chargers are not mutually exclusive. In fact advancing battery tech is a great thing, smaller battery with a even lighter package. Lighter car more efficient again. And with motor tech advancing, a more efficient motor means one can get by with a even smaller and lighter battery. Right now a Tesla 100kW battery is what? 2000lbs? Maybe advance battery chemistry can cramp 200kW in the same weight class. On the other side of the equation, how about cutting the battery weight in half and keep the same capacity? That's 1000lb savings. Going further, if there are numerous convenient chargers, then one doesn't need all that extra range, cutting it down to 50kW at 500lbs would be enough. With a lighter more efficient car and more efficient motors, the range might only drop 30% as compared to the original, so 70% range at a 1/4 of the weight. 

    Dude you need to zoom out and see the big picture, it's not just about you and your home charger. Go see how the general public behaves, they are the majority and to get them to buy into the EV segment, the EV segment needs to adapt to their needs and habits. 


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    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    We are not discussing the same thing. 
    lit is not a question of allowing those who can’t charge at home more locations to supercharge. Those customers are out of reach while only a tiny fraction of the needed batteries for home chargers are needed. Frankly they should not buy EVs right now unti they can charge at home at the apartment or wherever. They must be parking cars somewhere. 
    So imho while there are not enough batteries for the next five or more years no one will invest in these soon to be out of date chargers. They will make sense on long high way stretches. 
    Ou think it’s rapid chargers for people in apartments.  I say we are ten years away from those customers and by then most will have some type of charging where they park. 
    So I hear exactly what you are saying but I am considering the mix of customers and battery supply.  It is a classic chicken or egg debate. I invite others to settle this or chime in. 


    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    Not even Tesla are selling out all their cars, they have loads sitting on 'dealers' lot. So it isn't a battery bottle neck. Well maybe it is in Elon's mind which he also broadcasted to all his followers to make them believe the same thing as he also wanted to use batteries to make a battery hog Semi. 

    With gas price getting higher and higher, more regular consumers are looking towards switching to EVs, especially with government grants and tax credits. What's the first thing they check? How easy is it to top off the car when they are out and about and how's the range. The salesmen would tell them they can charge at home, and some will be like you and say cool we can do that. Others, like the majority, will be like errr we don't have access to plugs to charge at home. The salesmen would proceed to whip out the phone app and show where are the public chargers. For some places they would be numerous, for others it wouldn't be. 

    The range part is all but useless information now, all EVs have enough range for 95% of the people's driving for a day. 

    Lastly, people ARE supposed to be flogging to the EV side as governments around the world are trying to kill off normal cars. Quickly. So there isn't a lot of time left to improve the infrastructure side of things before doom's day.

     

     


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    Re: Audi e-tron GT

    Audi has shown its latest EV concept vehicle a few days ago. The grandsphere is stunning, much like the previously debuted skysphere; however, once again, Audi has forgotten about the driver by showcasing Level 4 autonomous driving.  

    https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/press-releases/first-class-toward-the-future-14200


     
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