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    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)


    I always drive with Sport Chrono ON and it starts off in 1. gear. Turning PSM off doesn't help with starting off faster but it may be useful when driving hard (caution: heavy oversteer!!!). I didn't look at the rpm at 300 kph on the speedo but CF did 326 kph on the speedo when he reached the rev limiter, maybe this helps.

    You'll love it when you drive it hard, you can have both hands at the steering wheel all the time, this is like somebody is actually doing the shifting AND shifting thinking for you, incredible fun.



    326km/h ?!%@

    So I take it the top speed 310km/h(193mph) given by porsche is just an ink on paper ?



    This was the speed as shown on his speedometer. Porsche speedometers (like most other car manufacturers) are known to have a slight margin of error. Seems all manufacturers speedometers slightly overstate actual speed. I think they do this for two reasons 1) to impress their customers/competitors ie. bragging rights and, 2) better to overstate than understate and have customers get tickets and blame them on Porsche. Besides, what manufacturer in his right mind would understate speed???

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    AMA said:

    326km/h ?!%@

    So I take it the top speed 310km/h(193mph) given by porsche is just an ink on paper ?



    I'm afraid it isn't THAT simple.
    "True" top speed is 310-311 kph, after that the rev limiter kicks in...or the limiter (we still didn't figure out what happens ).
    The speedo accuracy isn't that good, at a "true" speed of 80 kph, the speedo already shows 85 kph. At Vmax, the accuracy is worse, usually the speedo shows aprox. 10-15 kph more than the real speed.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    xandi911 said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    So, is your overboost "bug" an anomaly, or did the other car have that too?



    CF's car was going as good as mine, no difference. And yes, his car has the "anomaly" too, maybe this really is a Tiptronic thing...or the fact that both cars are from a press pool.


    you told that the tip is a hell.. but there was a MANUAL in the test? it stays behind? someone has a 997TT manual to confirm if it has the same 1.1 bar at high speeds?


    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    KF said:
    Quote:
    Porscha said:
    RC, thanks for your great posts and the pictures
    only super cars and will exist a video of this super day?




    Sorry, there is no video. Both powerpacks of my camera were empty. I don't know why



    And I was stupid enough not to take a video camera with me because I was sure YOU have one with you.



    I had one, but the batteriepacks were empty

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Honestly, I do not like the look of 997 Cabrio, Turbo or not.
    About F430 Spider, yes, offer is above MSRP...



    Only ferrari is a safe port for money......

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    RC said:... Today I drove my wife's Boxster S again (Tip) and it sucked, especially compared to the weekend drive in the 997 Turbo. It is more spontaneous from standstill but when it comes to dynamic driving, it really is annoying (compared to manual). Still works fine but would never buy it....



    RC: if you drove your wife's Boxster in auto mode, you drove it with the shifting pattern she uses. It takes a while for the electronics controlling the tip to learn another pattern. I would venture that, even in the Boxster, the tip in auto tip mode is quite responsive.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    RC said:... Today I drove my wife's Boxster S again (Tip) and it sucked, especially compared to the weekend drive in the 997 Turbo. It is more spontaneous from standstill but when it comes to dynamic driving, it really is annoying (compared to manual). Still works fine but would never buy it....



    RC: if you drove your wife's Boxster in auto mode, you drove it with the shifting pattern she uses. It takes a while for the electronics controlling the tip to learn another pattern. I would venture that, even in the Boxster, the tip in auto tip mode is quite responsive.



    How can you be sure how his wife drives? After all, this is a woman who proudly takes pictures of the speedo, while her husband is pushing the Cayenne past 280 km/h .

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    How can you be sure how his wife drives? After all, this is a woman who proudly takes pictures of the speedo, while her husband is pushing the Cayenne past 280 km/h .



    Well, I'm afraid he's right, my wife doesn't drive too fast.
    This Saturday, she joins a safety driving training for the first time and unfortunately I let her lure me to join her. It is a safety driving training for ALL type of cars and it is more for beginners. I'm pretty sure I'll have a lot of fun but I have to be careful not to be suspended. I did a similar thing before and they "promoted" me to a junior instructor, never knew what this means.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I did a similar thing before and they "promoted" me to a junior instructor, never knew what this means.



    "There! You're a junior instructor now! Now go sit down over there, we need someone to watch the buffet."

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Awesome, RC! So, how did it do against the Corvette? Glad you guys had fun !



    The Corvette was a modded C06 with 535 HP. This is the buddy of the Z06 owner who didn't have time to come. But the power of both cars is the same, they had them on an engine dyno. Weight is also almost the same. This modded C06 was as fast as my 997 Turbo in the up to 200 kph (125 mph) range, neither of us was faster. But at higher speeds over 230 kph or so, I started to slowly pull away. But still...very impressive. Again: modded to 535 HP (real ones, the owner is a former race driver who also works for a Porsche Motorsport company).
    The only car which actually was faster than the 997 Turbo was a Sportec modded 996 Turbo with 600 HP. In the 0-200 kph speed range, both same performance. But after 220 kph, he started to slowly pull away, at around 250 kph, he was two car lengths or so ahead of me.

    But like I said before, these guys were pretty impressed and nobody really believed Porsche's claim that there are only 480 HP under the hood. The comparison with the GT2 MkII actually proved it, this car is aprox. 100 kg lighter and has 3 HP more on the paper. And still...as fast as the 997 TT, not a tick faster, nothing. Impressive, Porsche did a great job with the 997 TT.

    And I should also mention that we had a RS-Tuning tuned 993 Turbo with over 560 HP in our middle. For such an "old" car, it performed brilliantly, absolutely great. It was actually the "leading car" in the black forest and what really was fun: he was blowing out FLAMES out of his exhaust pipes, oh boy...

    Just can't wait to get past 10000 km or so, this is when the "second wind" should come according to some Porsche engineers, the 997 Turbo performance should be even slightly better.



    RC, why did I see this coming?

    Let's get some things straight. The owner of the 993T, 996T and the C6 are very good friends and hanging out together all the time, so no hard feelings here. I have no intention to do the usual Porsche vs. Corvette bashing here. I am well aware that this is a Porsche forum and I do respect that.

    The modded C6 has 525hp and 660Nm. It was measured on a relatively new and accurate AWD chassis dyno (Superflow SF880) and corrected for flywheel hp. The stock Z06 was measured one week later on the same dyno and had exactly the same power and if I remember correctly a little lower torque an the 640Nm range. The driver of the C6 is not a former race driver. He is a car guy and turning wrenches for 20 years. He also worked for a very successful motor sports (FIA GT, Porsche GT3RS) company, mainly doing data acquisition and team coordination.

    The 993 Turbo engine had 530hp on an engine dyno (RS). The 996 Turbo is nowhere near 600hp at the moment, since the boost has been reduced due to clutch problems. Or do you really think you can keep up with a basically identical car with 100hp more than yours?

    The C6 did a pull from about 100 to 220 with you. The C6 was slightly ahead (maybe half a car length, nothing spectacular) and had to let off the gas because of the traffic ahead.

    Then you did a pull with the 993 Turbo and the 996 Turbo next to you. Both cars were faster than you from 200 or so. The 993 even changed lanes to get in front of you. The C6 was following the 996 Turbo at a distance I do not want to mention here.

    The C6 did many races against the 993 Turbo on other occasions, and at higher speeds (like 220+), the C6 is always pulling slightly away from him. This I to be expected, same weight, same power and an aerodynamic advantage for the C6.

    The C6 had a race with you from about 50 to maybe 200, was about even. Both had to let off due to traffic ahead.

    On the way back, the C6 did some pulls against the 996GT2 (stock). From like 100 to 250 the GT2 did put about 1-2 car lengths on the C6. At this time, there were two people in the C6 (105kg and 90kg) and the roof was off the car (No, it did not fly off ) The GT2 guy was alone in the car, I would estimate him on a 80kg. That is about a 115kg weight penalty for the C6 and a somewhat disturbed aerodynamic. 250km/h is about 70m/s. So an advantage of 7m is about 0.1s for the 996GT2.

    The C6 did some pulls against the Z06 a while ago. From 120 up to 300 it is about even. From 80 to 150 the Z06 is faster, it puts about 1.5 car lengths on the C6. This is also to be expected. The Z06 is about 70-100kg lighter (including drivers), but the C6 has probably a better aerodynamic due to the smaller body, tires and missing air inlets.

    So RC, while your 997 Turbo is a nice car, it is not the end of everything. We were surprised how well it runs for a stock car. The Blackwood Forest thing was a nice tour, but due to traffic issues and a lot of bikers nowhere as fast as on some other occasions.

    Next time we will do a video, so there are no confusions. Just call, we are waiting for you. Anytime.

    BTW, the cost of the modded C6 was Euro 64.000 (incl. VAT) new including all modifications. It has a removable top. It has done 32.000 km (and believe me, very hard km). It got 5 oil changes and one scheduled service (120 Euro ). It has used two sets of stock brake pads and a set of very aggressive racing pads (Carbone Lorainne) and a set of front discs until now. And some tires here and there. When driven on long distances (like South France with some friends at a 150km/h on the highway), it averages at 9L/100km. This is not the usual driving style, though

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    I'm afraid I have to correct you:

    1. the 993 Turbo went in front of me because he was on my right and although I was slightly faster by half a car length or so, he didn't show any signs of reducing speed, so it was either him crashing into me or me reducing throttle to let him pass. I mentioned it to CR on the phone because I was connected to him while we were doing that.
    2. I can't remember that the C06 was slightly ahead at any time, sorry. On the contrary, the 997 Turbo slightly pulled away at a speed over 220 kph. Don't forget that it was a pretty confusing situation with seven high power supersportscars on the street at the same location. Below 220, I agree, both the 997 Turbo and the tuned C06 were head to head. Considering the fact that the 997 Turbo and the 996 GT2 MkII were head to head up to 250 kph and you just claimed that the GT2 MkII pulled away from the C06, you surely missed a situation or two.
    3. the info regarding the C06 driver being a race car driver came from CR, just a little reminder. Talk to him about this, not to me. I have a pretty good memory.

    You're forgetting something: the 997 Turbo is STOCK like you mentioned. And even "worse": it is AUTOMATIC.
    In the Black Forest I was driving at around 80% of my capability and was still pretty fast as you very well know, simply for three reasons:
    1. I'm 42 and don't have to prove anything (two kids, a wife, a business, Rennteam , don't care about anything
    else).
    2. I don't want to crash a 154000 Euro car for fun only
    3. I didn't want to kill anybody (incl. me but especially others)

    Maybe the 993 Turbo driver should tell you a little bit more details about the rock and his rear. Trust me, he was VERY lucky, it had nothing to do with driver skills. And finally: where the hell would I have had the possibility to pass him?

    Bottom line: I can always add 100 horses to the 997 Turbo but what then? The C06 gets another 100 horses too? I don't see the point of doing that.

    I'm not sure I'm getting your point: so you want to tell me that for more than half the money, I can have the same fun? I still doubt it. Do you really think I wouldn't have loved to save some money when buying my car?

    1. I can't SAFELY drive in winter time in Bavaria in a C06, no matter if 400 HP or 1000 HP
    2. I can't move my kids in the C06
    3. I can't do stupid things in rain in the C06
    4. I can't register the C06 as a company car, the tax authoroties wouldn't accept it
    5. resale value sucks on the C06
    6. a tuned C06 isn't safe enough for me since I don't trust the car to be 100% safe under ANY driving/weather condition (car manufacturers don't do testing for nothing, no Tuner can do that), you already mentioned the critical oil temperature and we had "only" 32* C.

    I'm sure I could find more reasons but it is late and I want to go to bed.
    Btw: did you ever succeed in overtaking CR in his Sportec Turbo? "Old" PORSCHE.

    And finally: I can put 100000 Euro in my car, add 200 horses, remove around 150 kg weight and blow off each and every car on the Autobahn. The question is: what do I gain? Do I get a prize or a nice medal? The driving should be for fun. If it starts to be like a competition or macho show-off, then it is no fun to me anymore. Did that with 18-22, no need for that anymore. I have something to loose now. Good night.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    "There! You're a junior instructor now! Now go sit down over there, we need someone to watch the buffet."



    They actually wanted to show me how fast you can do certain exercises but since the weather changed dramatically (heavy rain), it was almost impossible to drive really fast and especially to brake strongly.
    Btw: my wife's female friend and her brother actually wanted to see the 997 Turbo, this is why my wife told them I'm coming too. So they put me on the list...and I even have to pay 300 Euro for it. But since I'm doing my wife a favor, its a good thing. The reward comes later...

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    RC,

    there lies the problem in itself: I love driving, you love typing.
    I think the informed people on this board can draw their own conclusions.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    Darksyde said:
    RC,

    there lies the problem in itself: I love driving, you love typing.
    I think the informed people on this board can draw their own conclusions.



    I hope you don't want to say that I wasn't fast enough for you. We can repeat this ANY time on "my" territory. But this time I need a prize money.
    I love driving too AND typing. But this doesn't mean I have to risk anything for having the fun. Ben died in a CGT crash, leaving his wife and a little baby girl. YOU don't have anything to loose apparently, this is YOUR problem, not mine.
    If you think that risky driving has something to do with driving skills, good luck. I promise to visit you at your grave. This is all I can say and I survived 24 years of fast driving.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    Darksyde said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Awesome, RC! So, how did it do against the Corvette? Glad you guys had fun !



    The Corvette was a modded C06 with 535 HP. This is the buddy of the Z06 owner who didn't have time to come. But the power of both cars is the same, they had them on an engine dyno. Weight is also almost the same. This modded C06 was as fast as my 997 Turbo in the up to 200 kph (125 mph) range, neither of us was faster. But at higher speeds over 230 kph or so, I started to slowly pull away. But still...very impressive. Again: modded to 535 HP (real ones, the owner is a former race driver who also works for a Porsche Motorsport company).
    The only car which actually was faster than the 997 Turbo was a Sportec modded 996 Turbo with 600 HP. In the 0-200 kph speed range, both same performance. But after 220 kph, he started to slowly pull away, at around 250 kph, he was two car lengths or so ahead of me.

    But like I said before, these guys were pretty impressed and nobody really believed Porsche's claim that there are only 480 HP under the hood. The comparison with the GT2 MkII actually proved it, this car is aprox. 100 kg lighter and has 3 HP more on the paper. And still...as fast as the 997 TT, not a tick faster, nothing. Impressive, Porsche did a great job with the 997 TT.

    And I should also mention that we had a RS-Tuning tuned 993 Turbo with over 560 HP in our middle. For such an "old" car, it performed brilliantly, absolutely great. It was actually the "leading car" in the black forest and what really was fun: he was blowing out FLAMES out of his exhaust pipes, oh boy...

    Just can't wait to get past 10000 km or so, this is when the "second wind" should come according to some Porsche engineers, the 997 Turbo performance should be even slightly better.



    RC, why did I see this coming?

    Let's get some things straight. The owner of the 993T, 996T and the C6 are very good friends and hanging out together all the time, so no hard feelings here. I have no intention to do the usual Porsche vs. Corvette bashing here. I am well aware that this is a Porsche forum and I do respect that.

    The modded C6 has 525hp and 660Nm. It was measured on a relatively new and accurate AWD chassis dyno (Superflow SF880) and corrected for flywheel hp. The stock Z06 was measured one week later on the same dyno and had exactly the same power and if I remember correctly a little lower torque an the 640Nm range. The driver of the C6 is not a former race driver. He is a car guy and turning wrenches for 20 years. He also worked for a very successful motor sports (FIA GT, Porsche GT3RS) company, mainly doing data acquisition and team coordination.

    The 993 Turbo engine had 530hp on an engine dyno (RS). The 996 Turbo is nowhere near 600hp at the moment, since the boost has been reduced due to clutch problems. Or do you really think you can keep up with a basically identical car with 100hp more than yours?

    The C6 did a pull from about 100 to 220 with you. The C6 was slightly ahead (maybe half a car length, nothing spectacular) and had to let off the gas because of the traffic ahead.

    Then you did a pull with the 993 Turbo and the 996 Turbo next to you. Both cars were faster than you from 200 or so. The 993 even changed lanes to get in front of you. The C6 was following the 996 Turbo at a distance I do not want to mention here.

    The C6 did many races against the 993 Turbo on other occasions, and at higher speeds (like 220+), the C6 is always pulling slightly away from him. This I to be expected, same weight, same power and an aerodynamic advantage for the C6.

    The C6 had a race with you from about 50 to maybe 200, was about even. Both had to let off due to traffic ahead.

    On the way back, the C6 did some pulls against the 996GT2 (stock). From like 100 to 250 the GT2 did put about 1-2 car lengths on the C6. At this time, there were two people in the C6 (105kg and 90kg) and the roof was off the car (No, it did not fly off ) The GT2 guy was alone in the car, I would estimate him on a 80kg. That is about a 115kg weight penalty for the C6 and a somewhat disturbed aerodynamic. 250km/h is about 70m/s. So an advantage of 7m is about 0.1s for the 996GT2.

    The C6 did some pulls against the Z06 a while ago. From 120 up to 300 it is about even. From 80 to 150 the Z06 is faster, it puts about 1.5 car lengths on the C6. This is also to be expected. The Z06 is about 70-100kg lighter (including drivers), but the C6 has probably a better aerodynamic due to the smaller body, tires and missing air inlets.

    So RC, while your 997 Turbo is a nice car, it is not the end of everything. We were surprised how well it runs for a stock car. The Blackwood Forest thing was a nice tour, but due to traffic issues and a lot of bikers nowhere as fast as on some other occasions.

    Next time we will do a video, so there are no confusions. Just call, we are waiting for you. Anytime.

    BTW, the cost of the modded C6 was Euro 64.000 (incl. VAT) new including all modifications. It has a removable top. It has done 32.000 km (and believe me, very hard km). It got 5 oil changes and one scheduled service (120 Euro ). It has used two sets of stock brake pads and a set of very aggressive racing pads (Carbone Lorainne) and a set of front discs until now. And some tires here and there. When driven on long distances (like South France with some friends at a 150km/h on the highway), it averages at 9L/100km. This is not the usual driving style, though



    I suspected Christian was doing a little puffing on behave of the 997TT. Here in the US the Z06 spanked the 997TT and I wondered whether US 997TT's were somehow handicapped because of our strict emission standards.

    Thank You for enlightening us.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I suspected Christian was doing a little puffing on behave of the 997TT. Here in the US the Z06 spanked the 997TT and I wondered whether US 997TT's were somehow handicapped because of our strict emission standards.

    Thank You for enlightening us.



    I wasn't doing any puffing, Nick. The Z06 wasn't there and a C06 owner apparently just wants to air some frustration. I'm a little bit surprised because I actually liked this guy and it was the same guy who told me after the driving that he was surprised about my driving because he actually thought, judging by my posts, that I'm just a "biederer" (sorry, don't know the english word for it, some sort of "common" or so) family father who knows how to write but not to drive. Either I am suffering from dillusions or somebody else.

    Unfortunately it is always about money, this is nothing new. Somebody who paid less always wants to prove that he made a good deal. So be it. Maybe CF, he was there too, can shed some light into the whole thing. And CR certainly could...

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Darksyde said:
    RC,

    there lies the problem in itself: I love driving, you love typing.
    I think the informed people on this board can draw their own conclusions.



    I hope you don't want to say that I wasn't fast enough for you. We can repeat this ANY time on "my" territory. But this time I need a prize money.
    I love driving too AND typing. But this doesn't mean I have to risk anything for having the fun. Ben died in a CGT crash, leaving his wife and a little baby girl. YOU don't have anything to loose apparently, this is YOUR problem, not mine.
    If you think that risky driving has something to do with driving skills, good luck. I promise to visit you at your grave. This is all I can say and I survived 24 years of fast driving.



    I really do not know what you are talking about. Actually I was the one of these driving slowly on the tour, way behind you.

    And I do not think your suspect writing above with personal insults will add to your reputation.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    Darksyde said:
    I really do not know what you are talking about. Actually I was the one of these driving slowly on the tour, way behind you.

    And I do not think your suspect writing above with personal insults will add to your reputation.



    Maybe you should re-read your post(s), people surely understood something else about my driving. No offense meant but you may want to check out what you wrote again, making claims in a foreign language (English) can sometimes be tricky, no matter how well you speak or write (I had this experience too).

    From your above posts, people get the feeling that:
    1. I was lying (or puffing like Nick said)
    2. I'm more skilled with writing than driving

    If you tell me that I misunderstood you, I apologize.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    hmmm, this thread is going another way than I would have expected it to...
    -Joost-

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Sounds like it was a fun outing. Sorry I missed it!

    Have a beer together...your both obviously enthusiastic, talented drivers that got off on the wrong communication. Easy to happen when not in mother tongue or limited to postings.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    Joost said:
    hmmm, this thread is going another way than I would have expected it to...
    -Joost-



    Funny...I was saying the same to myself last night.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    I'm not an old fellow rennteamer here, but all I can say is that RC was ALWAYS fair and honnest when he is talking about cars, and especially about Porsche.
    You can all see some posts where he is complaining about his favorite brand ;-)
    The aim of this meeting was not to compare if it is worth buying a C06 instead of a 977TT (I think also that someone who wants to buy a TT wouldn't have thought about buying one C06, but it's another story >....*).
    The aim of the meeting was to show for all reanteamer what are the actual capabilities of the car, not pushed on the limits, but as RC said, with enough safety margin to be safe on the road, for yourself, but also for the others.
    997 TT stands for the best combination between a beast and a safe car to drive everyday in your life.
    It's quite frustrating to see how many Chevy owners are so agressive when we are talking about their C or Z06.

    To make a conclusion : C06modded or Z06 are very fast cars, that's prooved. But TT plays in another world. I don't speak just about performance, but I see the total package : performance + safety + reputation + fascination.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    thierry said:
    To make a conclusion : C06modded or Z06 are very fast cars, that's prooved. But TT plays in another world. I don't speak just about performance, but I see the total package : performance + safety + reputation + fascination.



    Very good conclusion, indeed.

    Which reminds me of one of the "gorillas" (security) watching my car at the entrance of the party: he asked me how much the rims of my car cost because these are the most beautiful rims he's ever seen in his life (funny how people have different opinions, from love to hate, regarding the 997 TT OEM rims) and he's seen many expensive cars in the past. And only two seconds later, he added that he thinks that Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini are building only crap and they're not even close to the quality of a Corvette for example. I'm not kidding, I had several Rennteamers with me when we talked, incl. zzboba who owns a F430. Of course I didn't want to argue with a guy who is as wide as tall... but he continued to tell us also how unsafe our cars are compared to the Vette for example. Unsafe. But this guy was actually a very nice person and he was blunt and honest, so I actually appreciated his comments, even if I didn't take them too seriously.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    thierry said:
    I'm not an old fellow rennteamer here, but all I can say is that RC was ALWAYS fair and honnest when he is talking about cars, and especially about Porsche.
    You can all see some posts where he is complaining about his favorite brand ;-)
    The aim of this meeting was not to compare if it is worth buying a C06 instead of a 977TT (I think also that someone who wants to buy a TT wouldn't have thought about buying one C06, but it's another story >....*).
    The aim of the meeting was to show for all reanteamer what are the actual capabilities of the car, not pushed on the limits, but as RC said, with enough safety margin to be safe on the road, for yourself, but also for the others.
    997 TT stands for the best combination between a beast and a safe car to drive everyday in your life.
    It's quite frustrating to see how many Chevy owners are so agressive when we are talking about their C or Z06.

    To make a conclusion : C06modded or Z06 are very fast cars, that's prooved. But TT plays in another world. I don't speak just about performance, but I see the total package : performance + safety + reputation + fascination.



    Sorry, are you talking to us what the aim of the meeting is/was? Did I see/meet you at the party and do you know how it was organized?

    AM

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    Sorry, are you talking to us what the aim of the meeting is/was? Did I see/meet you at the party and do you know how it was organized?

    AM



    Forgot: the aim of the party was also to watch pretty girls and to drink a few beers. He probably forgot to mention that, Adnan.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)


    Christian,
    What happened? You did meet this person before drive? It seems to me that he bash you with no reason at all(maybe ego?)...
    For me, your credibility is intact!
    BTW, how old is this person?
    Kreso

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Funny how so many people are always focused on "winner" vs. "loser" or "mine is better than yours" A bit sad, really. Instead we should enjoy and share the different car experiences we have

    But each to their own

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    TEE1 said:
    Funny how so many people are always focused on "winner" vs. "loser" or "mine is better than yours" A bit sad, really. Instead we should enjoy and share the different car experiences we have

    But each to their own



    I don't know, maybe it was me who provoked the whole reaction with my "reports" from the meeting, I really don't have a clue. The writer is a very sympathetic person and I liked him. So his posts came as a complete surprise. I may have misunderstood him but is my English really that bad?! Anyway: case closed, I have to do a little bit of work for a living now.

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Darksyde said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Awesome, RC! So, how did it do against the Corvette? Glad you guys had fun !



    The Corvette was a modded C06 with 535 HP. This is the buddy of the Z06 owner who didn't have time to come. But the power of both cars is the same, they had them on an engine dyno. Weight is also almost the same. This modded C06 was as fast as my 997 Turbo in the up to 200 kph (125 mph) range, neither of us was faster. But at higher speeds over 230 kph or so, I started to slowly pull away. But still...very impressive. Again: modded to 535 HP (real ones, the owner is a former race driver who also works for a Porsche Motorsport company).
    The only car which actually was faster than the 997 Turbo was a Sportec modded 996 Turbo with 600 HP. In the 0-200 kph speed range, both same performance. But after 220 kph, he started to slowly pull away, at around 250 kph, he was two car lengths or so ahead of me.

    But like I said before, these guys were pretty impressed and nobody really believed Porsche's claim that there are only 480 HP under the hood. The comparison with the GT2 MkII actually proved it, this car is aprox. 100 kg lighter and has 3 HP more on the paper. And still...as fast as the 997 TT, not a tick faster, nothing. Impressive, Porsche did a great job with the 997 TT.

    And I should also mention that we had a RS-Tuning tuned 993 Turbo with over 560 HP in our middle. For such an "old" car, it performed brilliantly, absolutely great. It was actually the "leading car" in the black forest and what really was fun: he was blowing out FLAMES out of his exhaust pipes, oh boy...

    Just can't wait to get past 10000 km or so, this is when the "second wind" should come according to some Porsche engineers, the 997 Turbo performance should be even slightly better.



    RC, why did I see this coming?

    Let's get some things straight. The owner of the 993T, 996T and the C6 are very good friends and hanging out together all the time, so no hard feelings here. I have no intention to do the usual Porsche vs. Corvette bashing here. I am well aware that this is a Porsche forum and I do respect that.

    The modded C6 has 525hp and 660Nm. It was measured on a relatively new and accurate AWD chassis dyno (Superflow SF880) and corrected for flywheel hp. The stock Z06 was measured one week later on the same dyno and had exactly the same power and if I remember correctly a little lower torque an the 640Nm range. The driver of the C6 is not a former race driver. He is a car guy and turning wrenches for 20 years. He also worked for a very successful motor sports (FIA GT, Porsche GT3RS) company, mainly doing data acquisition and team coordination.

    The 993 Turbo engine had 530hp on an engine dyno (RS). The 996 Turbo is nowhere near 600hp at the moment, since the boost has been reduced due to clutch problems. Or do you really think you can keep up with a basically identical car with 100hp more than yours?

    The C6 did a pull from about 100 to 220 with you. The C6 was slightly ahead (maybe half a car length, nothing spectacular) and had to let off the gas because of the traffic ahead.

    Then you did a pull with the 993 Turbo and the 996 Turbo next to you. Both cars were faster than you from 200 or so. The 993 even changed lanes to get in front of you. The C6 was following the 996 Turbo at a distance I do not want to mention here.

    The C6 did many races against the 993 Turbo on other occasions, and at higher speeds (like 220+), the C6 is always pulling slightly away from him. This I to be expected, same weight, same power and an aerodynamic advantage for the C6.

    The C6 had a race with you from about 50 to maybe 200, was about even. Both had to let off due to traffic ahead.

    On the way back, the C6 did some pulls against the 996GT2 (stock). From like 100 to 250 the GT2 did put about 1-2 car lengths on the C6. At this time, there were two people in the C6 (105kg and 90kg) and the roof was off the car (No, it did not fly off ) The GT2 guy was alone in the car, I would estimate him on a 80kg. That is about a 115kg weight penalty for the C6 and a somewhat disturbed aerodynamic. 250km/h is about 70m/s. So an advantage of 7m is about 0.1s for the 996GT2.

    The C6 did some pulls against the Z06 a while ago. From 120 up to 300 it is about even. From 80 to 150 the Z06 is faster, it puts about 1.5 car lengths on the C6. This is also to be expected. The Z06 is about 70-100kg lighter (including drivers), but the C6 has probably a better aerodynamic due to the smaller body, tires and missing air inlets.

    So RC, while your 997 Turbo is a nice car, it is not the end of everything. We were surprised how well it runs for a stock car. The Blackwood Forest thing was a nice tour, but due to traffic issues and a lot of bikers nowhere as fast as on some other occasions.

    Next time we will do a video, so there are no confusions. Just call, we are waiting for you. Anytime.

    BTW, the cost of the modded C6 was Euro 64.000 (incl. VAT) new including all modifications. It has a removable top. It has done 32.000 km (and believe me, very hard km). It got 5 oil changes and one scheduled service (120 Euro ). It has used two sets of stock brake pads and a set of very aggressive racing pads (Carbone Lorainne) and a set of front discs until now. And some tires here and there. When driven on long distances (like South France with some friends at a 150km/h on the highway), it averages at 9L/100km. This is not the usual driving style, though



    I suspected Christian was doing a little puffing on behave of the 997TT. Here in the US the Z06 spanked the 997TT and I wondered whether US 997TT's were somehow handicapped because of our strict emission standards.

    Thank You for enlightening us.



    Two things:

    RC, your car has only 1500 km. I think your car will do it much better when you're car is 7000km old.

    The GT2 was faster in the range of 40 km/h to 250 km/h than the 600hp 996 Turbo and the modified Corvette. That's a fact after the shootout. Ok, the GT2 is lighter than both cars and evertime there was passenger on board and i drove alone. But don't forget i have a big wing on my tail, which is an aerodynamic disadvantage in accelaration things.

    RC, we never had the chance to compare our cars directly at sunday, but we will do it soon.

    One thing at least, you all are great drivers and i had no chance to follow you in the black forrest But i also drove this track first time and not as often than you.

    Last statement: Your modified Corvette is a great car.
    The new 997 turbo is a great car. But why the Z06 driver missed the event at sunday?

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    KF,
    Could you please post some pics of your car? I love the GT2, and there are way to few pics of it available!
    -Joost-

     
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