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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    BjoernB:

    there is even more "fun" around the corner - I heard that the "next thing" is now shifting will be linked to the GPS Map Navi - meaning the car will know what the road in front will look alike and shift for you accordingly up or down at perfect moments - and I am sure that will be topped by the "automated braking fun" allowing to brake much later than a human would do setting even better times so you can leave those in yr wake having only opted for the GPS shifting.....indecision cool

    My robotic car is faster than your robotic car.  

    The fastest laps at club DEs are often set by those that have spent to most $$$ to get the most power.  The real equalizer are autocross events when I take out my older cars and post similar times to cars with nearly twice the hp and all the electronic nannies. 

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    People often want most what they cannot have.  When PDK was unavailable on the GT3 the press waxed eloquently on its myriad advantages over the manual, noting that Porsche was not "with the times" compared to Ferrari, et. al.  Now that the manual is not offered on the 991 GT3 its desirability is magnified simply by its unavailability.  Frankly I can find no particularly good reason not to offer the manual alongside the PDK simply for the sake of choice among potential buyers.  Insofar as whether PDK or manual is a "better" choice,  in my opinion a Porsche is a personal indulgence, a reward to oneself that demands no other justification or peer group approval.


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    There is a high development cost with every different  option. Therefore why develop a manual for the GT3 that a handfull of people desire, who might not even consider the car in reality?

    Even the 7 speed manual on the Carrera models (Porsche seemed obliged to offer a manual on their entry level models to keep price down) seems to be a half hearted effort and not as good as the old box.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

     
     
     
     
    The crux of the issue is that there's a fundamental difference between speed-obsessed German engineers and good ol' silly Americans who just love to drive a manual. For the former, there's a point at which the automatic is faster and can be programmed to be more efficient. It then becomes "better." To the rest of us, it merely becomes a better automatic. And while the GT3's PDK is one of the better automatics, there is not, nor will there ever be, an automatic that is as involving as a manual. The 911, like so many other cars, has traded a degree of involvement for speed. We'd happily lose time on the sprint to 60 mph, or a few seconds per lap, if it meant more fun.
     

    I thought the writer gave a fair and overall positive review although I agree that the lack of a manual option is the crux of the issue and where Porsche has lost the script on this latest GT3 IMHO.

    High performance cars have become so fast as to be virtually unuseable on the street in any real sense of their potential. And despite Porsche's omnipresent hype about this being a track car, anyone actually trying to shave tenths in a stock GT3 is playing Russian Roulette. Remember these cars are faster than top level sports racers of just a few years back yet have none of the integrated safety systems such as rollbars, six-point harneses, and fire suppression systems necessary for protection at those speeds. Add to that the fact that Porsche voids your warranty the minute you set foot on track and it quickly becomes apparent that the Nurbugring lap time game is just a marketing ploy.

    For years the GT3 has carved out a niche as the antithesis to the techno-supercar. It was the go-to choice for those seeking the rawest, purest, and most engaging driving experience. Not sure what prompted Prueninger to do an about-face on his disdain for "granny paddle" automatics (his words, not mine) and I have no issue with it being offered on the GT3, but the fact that a manual is not offered as well is major fail.

    Standing on the sidelines until Porsche has their BMW M5 ah-hah moment.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nizer:
     
    ... the fact that a manual is not offered as well is major fail.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Hello chaps.  Short reading below, just to rub it in!

    Are you a keen driver?

    • Do you really love your driving?
    • Do you get pleasure from a perfectly executed “heel-and-toe” downshift under brakes as a challenging corner looms?
    • Do you appreciate superb steering feedback on a winding road?
    • Does it give you pleasure to see your front suspension at work from the driver’s seat?
    • Do you enjoy seeing the steering angle of the front wheels as you negotiate a corner, open wheel race car style?
    • Do you enjoy a touch of opposite lock under power?
    • Do you appreciate the pure driving pleasure that only a properly designed rear wheel chassis can naturally provide?
    • Do you love using a slick short throw gearbox?
    • Do you appreciate an engine designed to rev?

    If you answer yes, then … you need a Caterham.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:

    No one demands a manual on a Ferrari supersports, but there are some people demanding manual on Porsche and even BMWs cheeky

    I cannot understand the premise of their wish, since modern DCTs are faster than manual gear changes and allow the driver to drive concentrate more on his braking and car control which count for speed and efficiency rather than waste time and energy on the clutch pedal and the stick.

    Most of the so called "purists" originate from the USA and IMO there is a sociological reason for this. USA was the first country where the easy but slow auto gearboxes were widely used and I believe one of the first countries where you could get a "auto only" driving license, for girls and wimps . Therefore, because of these prejudices someone who still drives manual considers himself as the more macho man and the more gifted driver.

    I grew up with manuals and I can drive a manual very very well. But with modern technology the traditional gearbox gives no advantages at all. It is redundant museum piece.


    --

    "Form follows function"

     

    How about double clutching with a non-syncro, straight cut gearbox? It’s fun, engaging, certainly not as fast, but very involving. I think that’s all that people are moaning about. I’ve driven sequential raceboxes, Hewland boxes, regular H-pattern, 901 gearboxes (and other gently does it boxes), autos, tiptronics and pdk’s.

    The slowest gearchange to speed ratios are invariably either the most engaging (the super delicate or brutish old boxes) or the least (full automatics, tiptonics). The fastest gear changes aren't particularly engaging (but get the job done fast, well and right).

    It then boils down to if you want a GT3 for engaging, spirited driving or for track use. I would track one mercilessly if I had it so I’m fine with the PDK, I want the extra speed. If I was buying it purely for backroad spirited driving though, I could see why someone would prefer the involvement of a manual.  


    --
    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Mithras:
    reginos:

    No one demands a manual on a Ferrari supersports, but there are some people demanding manual on Porsche and even BMWs cheeky

    I cannot understand the premise of their wish, since modern DCTs are faster than manual gear changes and allow the driver to drive concentrate more on his braking and car control which count for speed and efficiency rather than waste time and energy on the clutch pedal and the stick.

    Most of the so called "purists" originate from the USA and IMO there is a sociological reason for this. USA was the first country where the easy but slow auto gearboxes were widely used and I believe one of the first countries where you could get a "auto only" driving license, for girls and wimps . Therefore, because of these prejudices someone who still drives manual considers himself as the more macho man and the more gifted driver.

    I grew up with manuals and I can drive a manual very very well. But with modern technology the traditional gearbox gives no advantages at all. It is redundant museum piece.


    --

    "Form follows function"

     

    How about double clutching with a non-syncro, straight cut gearbox? It’s fun, engaging, certainly not as fast, but very involving. I think that’s all that people are moaning about. I’ve driven sequential raceboxes, Hewland boxes, regular H-pattern, 901 gearboxes (and other gently does it boxes), autos, tiptronics and pdk’s.

    The slowest gearchange to speed ratios are invariably either the most engaging (the super delicate or brutish old boxes) or the least (full automatics, tiptonics). The fastest gear changes aren't particularly engaging (but get the job done fast, well and right).

    It then boils down to if you want a GT3 for engaging, spirited driving or for track use. I would track one mercilessly if I had it so I’m fine with the PDK, I want the extra speed. If I was buying it purely for backroad spirited driving though, I could see why someone would prefer the involvement of a manual.  


    --
    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

    Thank you for your excellent post!  Involvement, not outright speed, is what spirited driving is all about as there are numerous cars that will outperform a 911 GT3 on the track.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    PBS2010:
    nizer:
     
    ... the fact that a manual is not offered as well is major fail.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Hello chaps.  Short reading below, just to rub it in!

    Are you a keen driver?

    • Do you really love your driving?
    • Do you get pleasure from a perfectly executed “heel-and-toe” downshift under brakes as a challenging corner looms?
    • Do you appreciate superb steering feedback on a winding road?
    • Does it give you pleasure to see your front suspension at work from the driver’s seat?
    • Do you enjoy seeing the steering angle of the front wheels as you negotiate a corner, open wheel race car style?
    • Do you enjoy a touch of opposite lock under power?
    • Do you appreciate the pure driving pleasure that only a properly designed rear wheel chassis can naturally provide?
    • Do you love using a slick short throw gearbox?
    • Do you appreciate an engine designed to rev?

    If you answer yes, then … you need a Caterham.

     

    I was a professional rallye driver (group N championship) and I enjoyed driving a lot, still enjoy it a lot but I would never get a Caterham. Power sucks, safety sucks, sound sucks (yes...I like a different sound) and overall, this car is very overrated but to each his own I guess. Maybe I'm too old to loose my time with toys...for little boys. Smiley

    Sorry...I had to say this. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    PBS2010:
    nizer:
     
    ... the fact that a manual is not offered as well is major fail.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Hello chaps.  Short reading below, just to rub it in!

    Are you a keen driver?

    • Do you really love your driving?
    • Do you get pleasure from a perfectly executed “heel-and-toe” downshift under brakes as a challenging corner looms?
    • Do you appreciate superb steering feedback on a winding road?
    • Does it give you pleasure to see your front suspension at work from the driver’s seat?
    • Do you enjoy seeing the steering angle of the front wheels as you negotiate a corner, open wheel race car style?
    • Do you enjoy a touch of opposite lock under power?
    • Do you appreciate the pure driving pleasure that only a properly designed rear wheel chassis can naturally provide?
    • Do you love using a slick short throw gearbox?
    • Do you appreciate an engine designed to rev?

    If you answer yes, then … you need a Caterham.

     

    I was a professional rallye driver (group N championship) and I enjoyed driving a lot, still enjoy it a lot but I would never get a Caterham. Power sucks, safety sucks, sound sucks (yes...I like a different sound) and overall, this car is very overrated but to each his own I guess. Maybe I'm too old to loose my time with toys...for little boys. Smiley

    Sorry...I had to say this. Smiley


    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

     

     

    Hello.  You apparently need a few things:

    1. an important update on the cars;
    2. a paradigm shift (if the list of cars below your signature line is any indication … all fat, heavy cars, some diesel!  Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4!!!);
    3. be more objective / less chauvinistic (or is it that you are from Germany that you cannot just not defend Porsche because it is a home brand);  as far as I am concerned, I have no personal interest at stake either way;
    4. not getting too personal on the verge of insulting.

    I wrote ages ago, on this forum as a matter of fact, that I believed that the only true sports car (meaning light, authentic) manufacturers remaining in Europe are in the UK.  There are now only a handful of sports cars from Germany (or the rest of continental Europe) weighing less than 1,400 kg.  Less than 1,300kg, any?  In the UK, there are lots on sale weighing half of that.

    Car enthusiasts also cherish the amount of fun they get from the car, not just speed.  BTW, not everybody leaves in Germany with handy access to unrestricted highways.  And road drive is speed limited … which one has to take into account at some point.

    In fact right above these lines there is a debate with the so-called “purists” arguing the case against the PDK.  At this stage of their acceptance, they are now ready to acknowledge that the PDK is faster, but so far they hold on to their belief (probably true, but for certain persons only as it is not shared universally) that a manual box is more fun.

    Since fun is the key factor, let us get back to the very light, raw and powerful British sport cars.  Yes, they are powerful.  The power to weight ratio of the average such car is 300bhp per ton, which is better than the 991 GT3, and yields lots of good sensations.

    Safety?  Interesting question.  Let us put it this way.  In an open-top sports car from across the channel, you can have fun at moderate speeds.  Then what is better:  to crash in a, let us say Caterham, at 60mph or crash at 150mph in a GT3.   Yes, 150mph or about 200km/h, as it takes about 11.5 seconds in the new GT3 to get there from 0.  Even if it is a Porsche, I do not want even to imagine what the consequences of crashing this fast will be.  Physics tell you that kinetic energy grows with the square of speed, for a given mass.  I did the maths:  in the Porsche the kinetic energy released will be FIVE TIMES greater than that in the other car which you call derogatively.

    Of course, you may still want to believe that you will be safe.  Up to you.

    Alternatively, you may want to argue that you will not crash this fast … because you do not need to this fast.  Then, what is the point of having a nearly 500hp car?  Or maybe you don’t?

    I am sorry not to read much on this forum about alternatives to the new GT3.

    In conclusion, I suggest a new criterion for evaluating sport cars:  fun per km/h.  The greater the index, the better the sport car.

    A side note on the Nordschleife: it is a reinvention of German motorists to sell the type of car they like to sell:  powerful, heavy and expensive.  Funnily, a foreign manufacturer decided to play by the same rules to beat the locals flat out:  GT-R vs Porsche.  No one will dispute that the GT-R is not a light car.

    Second side note: if you want the full thrill, offering proper downforce and lap times so minimal as to exterminate anything on the track with the Porsche logo on it (even Cup cars) that is sold to the public, check out for example the beast below:

    Caterham SP 300R.jpg

    Or may be this one, which has EC homologation:

    Radical SR3 SL.jpg

     

    RIP.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Why buy a Porsche? Buy yourself a manual Miata (very inexpensive) and get your jollies off on the back roads even though everyone is passing you.Smiley


    --

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

     

    Dear PBS2010,
    I have had a few lightweight cars in the past. 
    What I have learnt is that they are utterly fun to drive, very involving, but in all fairness, they are far from being the pinacle of motoring sensation. Their biggest advantage is the fun vs cost factor. They aren't particularly quick, at least not on regular circuits, and if they are (tuned), then they aren't reliable (if they ever were). 
    Safety is in fact a big issue. Let's stay with your example. The lightweight car can also do 150mph and if you lose it at those speeds then you better wished you were in the Porsche. Because all these lightweight cars aren't renowned for their built quality or crash structures. That's btw one of the main reasons why I sold my 2-Eleven, out of fear to hit a curb and do a rollover!
    I know lightweight cars are a thrill to drive, but please, let's not compare apples with oranges. 
     
    btw there is also a Porsche RS Spyder to put up against the Caterham SP300R ;)

    --

    997 GT3 3.8


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    It's a simple choice really smileymhg7WMzo.jpg


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

    Why buy a Porsche? Buy yourself a manual Miata (very inexpensive) and get your jollies off on the back roads even though everyone is passing you.Smiley


    --

     

    Very well said. Maybe Gauss can shed some insight why he switched from his Lotus lightweight fun car to a GT3...

    Those little boy racers like Caterham, Ariel Atom, KTM Crossbow, etc. don't attract me at all, never have. Sorry. Smiley Kind of have the feeling that the drivers of these cars have missed a F1 career (minus the driving skills Smiley). Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I've already added my 2 ct indecision

    Happy to repeat though: if we compare road legal cars, the GT3 is much faster, in every aspect (yes, also in most corners), it just costs a whole lot more 


    --

    997 GT3 3.8


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    I had a lot of fun driving manual but after being "forced" (my second 911 Turbo (a 997) had Tiptronic because A. it was faster with Tiptronic and B. I thought my wife would drive this car too) to drive Tiptronic, I learned the benefits of concentrating on the driving, not the shifting. Yes, it may be more fun to drive a manual but on the other hand, it is actually ever more fun to achieve better track times and to put some of those behind you who made fun of you because of the auto tranny. indecision

    It is kind of a personal preference if someone prefers manual or PDK but PDK has evolved a lot and I can have a lot of fun with PDK, even in auto mode, which allows me to concentrate more on my driving than shifting.

    For some people, record lap times may not be important but for others, they are. Achieving these numbers with a manual becomes almost impossible (same stock car).

    The GT3 is no torque monster. I would like to add that a refined PDK system will compensate a lot of the missing torque by shifting super quickly and thus allowing the driver to make best use of the hp at higher revs. In summary, the PDK might make a lot of sense in a car like the GT3 Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

     

    I have to admit that I feel at least half of you are talking a load of bollocks.

     

    1) Lightweight and high powered are not mutually exclusive.

    2)lightweight and high powered will ALWAYS trump heavy and high powered or light and low powered.

    3) the fastest thing you can drive on a track is a light and powerful car. Racers don’t try to ADD weight!

    4) a GT3 is NEVER going to be faster around a track than a huge number of road legal lightweight track cars. It is not faster than an Atom, many caterhams, any radical etc… I love them, I would buy one to track and drive but I know I’m going to get passed by an Atom on the track assuming equal skill (of which I have enough of for me to be able to pay someone to race their car).

    5) Trackday cars are fun and fast on the track. They CAN also be fun blasting around backroads. They aren’t fun driving around back roads in the wet, driving in traffic, when you’re stressed and trying to think, when you have people other than yourself to take.

    6)A GT3 is a track day car which has been softened up enough to allow those above things be a little or a lot less miserable.

    7)I wouldn’t want to get into a big crash in any of them. A 911 is a car I would rather be in over most others so it’s not really fair. That said I’m not tracking a car with the thoughts of crashing forefront in my mind!


    --
    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Another issue is to what extent would an owner want to take to a track a $150,000 car;

    where he cannot vouch for the competency of other driver,

    have the specter of his warranty being voided should a breakdown occur,

    possibility his insurance coverage denied in the case of a collision,

    accelerated wear and tear on his car and

    the various expenses associated with tracking a car?

    It would be wiser to purchase a cheaper track car and make believe you are Schumacher.

     


    --

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Mithras:

     

    I have to admit that I feel at least half of you are talking a load of bollocks.

     

    1) Lightweight and high powered are not mutually exclusive.

    2)lightweight and high powered will ALWAYS trump heavy and high powered or light and low powered.

    3) the fastest thing you can drive on a track is a light and powerful car. Racers don’t try to ADD weight!

    4) a GT3 is NEVER going to be faster around a track than a huge number of road legal lightweight track cars. It is not faster than an Atom, many caterhams, any radical etc… I love them, I would buy one to track and drive but I know I’m going to get passed by an Atom on the track assuming equal skill (of which I have enough of for me to be able to pay someone to race their car).

    5) Trackday cars are fun and fast on the track. They CAN also be fun blasting around backroads. They aren’t fun driving around back roads in the wet, driving in traffic, when you’re stressed and trying to think, when you have people other than yourself to take.

    6)A GT3 is a track day car which has been softened up enough to allow those above things be a little or a lot less miserable.

    7)I wouldn’t want to get into a big crash in any of them. A 911 is a car I would rather be in over most others so it’s not really fair. That said I’m not tracking a car with the thoughts of crashing forefront in my mind!

    The power/weight ratio is key here coupled with lighter overall weight, especially unsprung weight, for on track performance as you have expressed a couple of times here.

    One concern I have remains that the electronic nannies, and this includes PDK in the system mix, allows a very average driver to believe that they posses skills much beyond the true skill set.  Those electronic systems can fail to protect at the most inopportune time.  For example, during last year's One Lap of America, a Cadillac CTS-V sportswagen left the track at Road America because the ABS went into "ice mode," which reduced braking forces so much that the driver could not negotiate the turn. Since this event is held in late Spring, ice was not the culprit, instead,  bumps on the track unloaded the rear wheels during braking, causing the ABS controller to compute that the car was braking on a very low mu surface, so therefore, to maintain directional stability, the system basically retarded most braking force.  Don't think that "ice mode" is a flaw built into GM products-there are numerous stories of 911s on, or is that off, the track suffering from the same condition. 

    I stated it before, and I will state it again, I do not care about posting the absolute fastest time around the track, I am interested in honing my driving skills and getting as much as possible out of my car with a level of driver involvement.  That for me remains having a manual.  I've known a number of skilled Miata drivers that lay waste to drivers of more exotic, and expensive, machinery because of their greater understanding of control control and their car's capabilities.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Several years ago, when I attended the very first Porsche driving school in the US (Road Atlanta) I was very fortunately to spend one on one time with Hurley Haywood. At the time, I was a diehard manual guy. Though we talked about several subject I eventually as him if he was to option a Porsche which one would he get?

    His answer surprised me. He said he would get a Turbo with Triptonic. I asked why triptonic? He explained to me that it provide the best of both worlds. Able to drive comfortable in the real world and maximize performance on the track. I then followed up with the mantra of diehard manual devotees; "But manual is more involving for the driver!"

    His response...driver involvement is in the steering wheel and throttle.

     


    --

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry. Well said. Ive been a die hard manual driver all my life. Ive had my 6spd 993 C2 for 13 years and I have entered in Tarmac Rally and also some track work. I think most would say Im a proficient driver in this "old skool" 911. 

    For all those people who are using this as a chest beating exerise about their views on hard core "man must shift" driving, go buy yourself a 964 or 993 and really understand whats its like to drive without electronic aids. Im sure it will make you a much better driver than you are.

    I learnt a long time as enjoyable as it is to heel & Toe (when you get the revs perfectly matched) you do loose some concentration from the line and position. As Ive got older and mastered the shifts I now find I want to spend time understanding throttle and steering and focusing on position and entry.

    The 991 GT3 is going to be a great car and deliver the goods.

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Everything I see here about the superiority of real race cars for racing, and real dedicated specialized track toys for real dedicated toy tracking rings true and makes sense. Why any of it is posted in a 991 GT3 forum makes no sense at all to me. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    BjoernB:

    there is even more "fun" around the corner - I heard that the "next thing" is now shifting will be linked to the GPS Map Navi - meaning the car will know what the road in front will look alike and shift for you accordingly up or down at perfect moments - and I am sure that will be topped by the "automated braking fun" allowing to brake much later than a human would do setting even better times so you can leave those in yr wake having only opted for the GPS shifting.....indecision cool

    You forgot to mention the live link to the atmospheric conditions feed, so the "automated braking fun" will adjust its braking points based on temperature and precipitation...

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Mithras:

     

    I have to admit that I feel at least half of you are talking a load of bollocks.

     

    1) Lightweight and high powered are not mutually exclusive.

    2)lightweight and high powered will ALWAYS trump heavy and high powered or light and low powered.

    3) the fastest thing you can drive on a track is a light and powerful car. Racers don’t try to ADD weight!

    4) a GT3 is NEVER going to be faster around a track than a huge number of road legal lightweight track cars. It is not faster than an Atom, many caterhams, any radical etc… I love them, I would buy one to track and drive but I know I’m going to get passed by an Atom on the track assuming equal skill (of which I have enough of for me to be able to pay someone to race their car).

    5) Trackday cars are fun and fast on the track. They CAN also be fun blasting around backroads. They aren’t fun driving around back roads in the wet, driving in traffic, when you’re stressed and trying to think, when you have people other than yourself to take.

    6)A GT3 is a track day car which has been softened up enough to allow those above things be a little or a lot less miserable.

    7)I wouldn’t want to get into a big crash in any of them. A 911 is a car I would rather be in over most others so it’s not really fair. That said I’m not tracking a car with the thoughts of crashing forefront in my mind!

    Surely #6 should read as follows: A GT3 is a car that allows those above things be a little or a lot less miserable that has been hardened enough to make it a track car.

    After all, that is how the GT3 was born. Porsche wanted to go racing.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    What i found amazing is how much more people now all of a sudden consider a GT3..... - this is a amazing development and master-show-case from Porsche marketing giving us 9000 RPM for the purists and a gearbox that sells it also to those just getting a coffee in it wink indecision


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Mithras:
     

    It then boils down to if you want a GT3 for engaging, spirited driving or for track use. I would track one mercilessly if I had it so I’m fine with the PDK, I want the extra speed. If I was buying it purely for backroad spirited driving though, I could see why someone would prefer the involvement of a manual.  


    --
    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

    That sums it up perfectly . On a track , specially one like the N'Ring, you get a sweat even with a PDK , as the challenge to be fast and have a correct line is already a lot . On a normal track, if you are in ' competition' with others , you end up in a sweat too with PDK .

    For me , changing gear manually is very nice, but not really a challenge . Being faster and having a perfect line is the real challenge .

    I will always miss a manual, and I like it on back roads and even on DD driving ( my next DD will be manual ), but on the track I want to be fast .

    People who have not tried PDK on the track while challenging others or time can not comment on the ' involvement ' . When you go fast and you just kick those gears up or down , it does give real pleasure also , as you feel the ' speed' .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Gnil:
    Mithras:
     

    It then boils down to if you want a GT3 for engaging, spirited driving or for track use. I would track one mercilessly if I had it so I’m fine with the PDK, I want the extra speed. If I was buying it purely for backroad spirited driving though, I could see why someone would prefer the involvement of a manual.  


    --
    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

    That sums it up perfectly . On a track , specially one like the N'Ring, you get a sweat even with a PDK , as the challenge to be fast and have a correct line is already a lot . On a normal track, if you are in ' competition' with others , you end up in a sweat too with PDK .

    For me , changing gear manually is very nice, but not really a challenge . Being faster and having a perfect line is the real challenge .

    I will always miss a manual, and I like it on back roads and even on DD driving ( my next DD will be manual ), but on the track I want to be fast .

    People who have not tried PDK on the track while challenging others or time can not comment on the ' involvement ' . When you go fast and you just kick those gears up or down , it does give real pleasure also , as you feel the ' speed' .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    A real racer always wants to be fast(est). He always wants to win,Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Spyderidol:
    Gnil:
    Mithras:
     

    It then boils down to if you want a GT3 for engaging, spirited driving or for track use. I would track one mercilessly if I had it so I’m fine with the PDK, I want the extra speed. If I was buying it purely for backroad spirited driving though, I could see why someone would prefer the involvement of a manual.  


    --
    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

    That sums it up perfectly . On a track , specially one like the N'Ring, you get a sweat even with a PDK , as the challenge to be fast and have a correct line is already a lot . On a normal track, if you are in ' competition' with others , you end up in a sweat too with PDK .

    For me , changing gear manually is very nice, but not really a challenge . Being faster and having a perfect line is the real challenge .

    I will always miss a manual, and I like it on back roads and even on DD driving ( my next DD will be manual ), but on the track I want to be fast .

    People who have not tried PDK on the track while challenging others or time can not comment on the ' involvement ' . When you go fast and you just kick those gears up or down , it does give real pleasure also , as you feel the ' speed' .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    A real racer always wants to be fast(est). He always wants to win,Smiley

     "Racing is life, everything else is just waiting"  Michael Delaney (aka Steve McQueen) in LeMans


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The modern paddle shift gearbox is not only a friend for the track but also for a keen driver's favourite backroad or during a blast down an unknown challenging route. It allows the driver to brake, steer and exit in an uninterrupted smooth sequence which makes progress very fast and whilst the the driver derives a lot of driving pleasure in executing and perfecting this routine. There is pleasure and involvement, more IMO than wasting time and energy in pushing the clutch pedal and shfting the stick. The expert driver could also engage in left foot braking, where this fits.

    Things are so obvious.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Dang it - Still want to shift!  I like this saying - 'having an automatic is like asking your friend to service your wife' The GT3 needs to have the option to shift with a real clutch.  That said, I wish my Turbo had the PDK (sometimes) to keep it in the boost.  Did I mention I am now a boost freak?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Actually, the 997.1 Turbo is faster with Tiptronic and offers the overboost function (for 8 secs I think)  too. It is the only Porsche sportscar that is worth having with the Tip box.


    --

    "Form follows function"


     
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