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    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Leawood911:

    Using a clutch to smoothly engage the next gear is called 'Subjective' while at the same time you complain about how the PDK can be jerky at times?  lol

    The differences between the two are totally objective (they can be observed and quanitified) WHICH you perfer is subjective.  What I described was an objective feature of the clutch - the most obvious one at that - the manual control of smooth clutch engagement and how it is critical in high performance driving.

    Like I said, I doubt that you would call going from your brake pedal to an ON-OFF brake a change that is just subjective.

    Funny how some can rationalize things by using terms like subjective vs. objective incorrectly. (so I am calling BS)  I can tell you for a fact that I can release a clutch more smoothly than the PDK - that is not subjective, that is an objective fact.  Just like it is an objective fact that the PDK can do it faster. 

    I prefer to shift - that is a subjective choice.  If you prefer PDK which is also subjectiv then good for you.  Porsche is making a GIANT mistake.  Sorry, that is how I feel.

    I also think that F-drivers are a totally different breed.  They are not interested in shifting gears or driving for that matter. They just want a no brainer, quick car that they will not stall in traffic...  sad

    In the end, the orders the customers will place will dictate the future.  If we accept PDK then all of us will buy it and the manual will go away.  My job is to not let that happen - :-)Smiley

     

    cheers


    Very well said..SmileySmiley

    Besides, in a sportscar, the engine sounds way better with the manual... PDK sounds soulless with its millisecond shifts in comparison (needless to add, my subjective and humble opinion)

     

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    chuckb:

    ...

    When I switched from the manual steering 74 S I bought in '77, to a 78 SC ( in '79) with power steering standard, I began to appreciate how confused opinion could be. 

     

    No power steering in late 70's 911 SC.

     

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KMM:

    chuckb:


    ...



    When I switched from the manual steering 74 S I bought in '77, to a 78 SC ( in '79) with power steering standard, I began to appreciate how confused opinion could be. 




     



    No power steering in late 70's 911 SC.



     



     






    Like he said, no 911 ever had std or optional power steering or ABS until the 964 generation came out in the 1989/90 model year

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Any more firm news about the introduction of the Turbo

    Would it most likely be introduced at Geneva 2013 and first customer cars delivered in May/June 2013 in Europe?

    I'm on the fence if I should order a 4S or if I should stick with my 2S and wait for the Turbo instead smiley

    Regarding GT3 - it is for certain that this will be introduced AFTER the Turbo I assume? Since this has been the case on previous generations?


    --

    Current: 991 C2S Basalt Black/Black - PDK, PSE, SPASM, SportChrono, etc.
    Sold: 997.2 C2S Meteor Grey/Black - PDK, PSE, LSD, SportChrono, etc.
    Sold: 997.1 C2S Black/Black - PSE, PCCB, -20mm/LSD, Short-shifter, SportChrono, etc.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I started to believe that 991 GT3 will go with 21" rims after seeing this link:

    http://teamspeed.com/forums/991-997-996/72927-red-porsche-991-cab-21-hre-wheels.html

    21" on 991 looks just stunning angel broken heart


    --


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    7250828332_cbd1f88a18_b.jpg


    --


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    MKW:
    KMM:

    chuckb:


    ...



    When I switched from the manual steering 74 S I bought in '77, to a 78 SC ( in '79) with power steering standard, I began to appreciate how confused opinion could be. 



     



    No power steering in late 70's 911 SC.



     



     

     




    Like he said, no 911 ever had std or optional power steering or ABS until the 964 generation came out in the 1989/90 model year

    You are quite right. My bad. Long time ago!  It must have been the brakes that got powered- the 78 was a far easier car to drive on the street and the track, and the rest or the suspension was like the 74 (at least when it was stock).  But my point instill the same. Every time Porsche changes anything, some people go nuts (horsepower excepted).

    I am becoming convinced the with the 991 confusion is amplified by the way Porsche has decided to provide suspension options.

    Test drives with Power Steering Plus and without or with a car with active sway bars or without, or with PASM Sport, PASM and no PASM, 19 in or 20 in wheels  will provide different experiences. The differences are starting to be accurately described (see the latest edition of Excellence).

    My car does not have Power Steering Plus or  active sway links (PDDC), both of which are reported to have "unnatural" feel, which I take to mean unfamiliar at the least. It is a bit lower and stiffer than the standard car as it has  PASM Sport. A recent road test of a tuner car in Excellence suggested that lowering "returned" steering feel.  It is more supple in normal driving than expected with 20 in wheels. But pushed hard, it feels just like past 911s I have owned than not (except the limits are far higher, it turns in better and the steering wheel is "still" in the hand). Certainly not "ruined" and made into something other than a 911. Same for the PDK.  Perhaps it has been improved over earlier versions, it is fast, makes smooth changes up and down- tho in Sport + it snaps downshifts fast enough to unsettle the car unless the car has momentum pushing hard through the corner at speed. 

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    chuckb:

    Test drives with Power Steering Plus and without or with a car with active sway bars or without, or with PASM Sport, PASM and no PASM, 19 in or 20 in wheels  will provide different experiences. The differences are starting to be accurately described (see the latest edition of Excellence).

    My car does not have Power Steering Plus or  active sway links (PDDC), both of which are reported to have "unnatural" feel, which I take to mean unfamiliar at the least. It is a bit lower and stiffer than the standard car as it has  PASM Sport. A recent road test of a tuner car in Excellence suggested that lowering "returned" steering feel.  It is more supple in normal driving than expected with 20 in wheels. But pushed hard, it feels just like past 911s I have owned than not (except the limits are far higher, it turns in better and the steering wheel is "still" in the hand). Certainly not "ruined" and made into something other than a 911. Same for the PDK.  Perhaps it has been improved over earlier versions, it is fast, makes smooth changes up and down- tho in Sport + it snaps downshifts fast enough to unsettle the car unless the car has momentum pushing hard through the corner at speed. 


    Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Reading over this thread makes me realize how stupidly ridiculous these optional acronyms are. We got PDDC, PSE. SPASM, PASM, PCCB, not to mention, Power Steering Plus, Active Sway bars, Sway bars in conjunction with PASM, sport chrono, sport chrono plus. This is getting ridiculous. Most of the options cost a lot of money, and they all seem to be necessities, when just 1 short year ago most didn't exist.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Today I saw a black 991 Carrera,manual trans, base interior, optioned with 20 in carbon colored wheels, deleted PORSCHE letters, no sunroof, but with Sports Chrono and Porsche Sport Exhaust.  Interesting set of options and a very neat unique car. I think its neat that the car can be built to the owners desires. 

    They ought to offer performance engine and suspension software.  Or better yet publish APIs for the computing in the car to let customers dial in what they want, or purchase performance playlists (touring, tracking, hooning). Oh wait, the aftermarket is working overtime on this.

     

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Any news about Turbo?? 


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Question--

    does anyone know if the 991 4S will have the turbo "body style" or it will basically be a 991S with 4-wheel drive.

    you may remember that the 997 4S debuted as a standard body then when it got a mid-life refresh it adopted the wider back and added the strip.  

    Thank you.

    Also, when will it be available in the states -- been told several different times by the dealers.

    Thanks


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    mateoche:

    Question--

    does anyone know if the 991 4S will have the turbo "body style" or it will basically be a 991S with 4-wheel drive.

    you may remember that the 997 4S debuted as a standard body then when it got a mid-life refresh it adopted the wider back and added the strip.  

    Thank you.

    Also, when will it be available in the states -- been told several different times by the dealers.

    Thanks

    991 with AWD will have the wide body. That's for sure. Look at images on previous pages in this thread. If it is 44mm wider than the 2WD version like it was for the 997 is uncertain though.

    Btw, all 997 AWD did have the widebody - both the first gen 997 and the facelifted version with the red strip.


    --

    Current: 991 C2S Basalt Black/Black - PDK, PSE, SPASM, SportChrono, etc.
    Sold: 997.2 C2S Meteor Grey/Black - PDK, PSE, LSD, SportChrono, etc.
    Sold: 997.1 C2S Black/Black - PSE, PCCB, -20mm/LSD, Short-shifter, SportChrono, etc.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    thanks for your reply, Lukas!

    i recently saw a 997 4s First Generation and it appeared width-wise just like a 997s -- whereas the 997 4s Model II looks from the rear much wider and like a turbo with the exception of course of the wing and side vents, etc. 

    i looked at the spy pics of the 991 4 and it was hard for me to discern if they were were wider and it seemed odd that they would introduce a 991 4s with a "turbo body" before they introduced the turbo body on the turbo -- and i think the turbo 997 came out a couple years later than the basic 997... but maybe they will introduce the 991 turbo at the same time or before the 991 4...

    again, appreciate your information and the clarification.

    thank you.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Mateoche,
    I think your confusion comes from the following:
    Back in the days of the 996, there was only the Carrera models, and no Carrera S models.
    So, there were the Carrera and the Carrera 4. Not as a styling gimmick, but just the 4wd Carrera. Then came the turbo. Later, the Carrera 4S was introduced, I think as one of the final models of the 996 series (not sure about that). So, the C4S used the turbo body styling as a marketing gimmick (and d@mn, did it look good!!!)

    Since the 997 series, we are blessed/cursed with the whole Carrera and Carrera S from the start.
    Both are narrow bodies, and both are introduced before the turbo. So, in all their wisdom, Porsche decided to offer the widebody, not on the S models (which makes more sense if you ask me, but ok...), but on the 4wd models.
    The 4wd models are introduced before the turbo, and therefore do not have the "turbo styling", just widebody...

    One can assume that the model strategy used for the 997 may be used for the 991 as well.

    Hope this clears things up!
    -Joost-


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Does anyone know what the base price will be for the 991 C4S in the US?


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    mrsmith:

    Does anyone know what the base price will be for the 991 C4S in the US?

    Given history it will be about as much as a 991S Cabriolet today.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    thanks Joost!

    appreciate your in-depth reply!

    it's odd but both my friend and i thought the 997 4 (first generation) looked like a 997 (first generation) and the facelifted 997 4 (with the strip) version does appear perceptibly wider...

    i agree with you totally -- the 996 4s was a beautiful car -- probably one of my favorite Porsches of its time and i recently saw in LA that was in great condition and it still looked fantastic IMHO... 

    from the spy pics, it looks like the 991 will depart from the 997 and offer the 4 version with a strip in its first model iteration... 

    again, thanks for your reply!

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    997.1 and 997.2 4WD models are both equally wider than the standard models.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Power Kit for 911 Carrera S

    Porsche has released a new 'Power enhancement kit' for the Carrera S, as well as a number of new aerodynamic accessories.

     
    By Matthew Hayward
    21st June 2012
    Power Kit for 911 Carrera S
     

    Available to 911 Carrera S owners, the new 'Power Enhancement Kit' boosts power from 400hp to 430hp, which gives the 911 a 0-62mph time of just 4.0secs when fitted with the PDK gearbox.

    The extra power comes from a number of upgrades, including a re-designed variable-resonance intake system, camshafts and an upgraded exhaust. The package also includes the Sport Chrono package – with dynamic engine mounts – for improved dynamics. Externally, the Power Kit features a new titanium engine cover, with carbon inlays.

    Along side the Power Kit, Porsche is also offering a new range of aerodynamic and styling accessories for the 911, known as 'Porsche Exclusive'. The range of parts includes a new front apron, and a Ducktail rear spoiler, or the more expensive Aerokit Cup.

    Other components include tinted privacy glass for the side and rear windows, and on the inside, Porsche Exclusive offers numerous upgrades - such as interior packages with decorative trim ranging from brushed aluminium to carbon.

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    BjoernB:

    Porsche Exclusive offers numerous upgrades - such as interior packages with decorative trim ranging from brushed aluminium to carbon.

     

    Seems that such an expensive car should include brushed aluminum already (instead of silver painted plastic).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Grant:
    BjoernB:

    Porsche Exclusive offers numerous upgrades - such as interior packages with decorative trim ranging from brushed aluminium to carbon.

     

    Seems that such an expensive car should include brushed aluminum already (instead of silver painted plastic).

    I had a generation 1 Audi TT . All the silver parts were in aluminum . I totally agree . It should be standard on this type of car.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    BjoernB:

    Power Kit for 911 Carrera S

    Porsche has released a new 'Power enhancement kit' for the Carrera S, as well as a number of new aerodynamic accessories.

     
    By Matthew Hayward
    21st June 2012
    Power Kit for 911 Carrera S
     

     

    Available to 911 Carrera S owners, the new 'Power Enhancement Kit' boosts power from 400hp to 430hp, which gives the 911 a 0-62mph time of just 4.0secs when fitted with the PDK gearbox.

    The extra power comes from a number of upgrades, including a re-designed variable-resonance intake system, camshafts and an upgraded exhaust. The package also includes the Sport Chrono package – with dynamic engine mounts – for improved dynamics. Externally, the Power Kit features a new titanium engine cover, with carbon inlays.

    Along side the Power Kit, Porsche is also offering a new range of aerodynamic and styling accessories for the 911, known as 'Porsche Exclusive'. The range of parts includes a new front apron, and a Ducktail rear spoiler, or the more expensive Aerokit Cup.

    Other components include tinted privacy glass for the side and rear windows, and on the inside, Porsche Exclusive offers numerous upgrades - such as interior packages with decorative trim ranging from brushed aluminium to carbon.

     

     Really happy to see this release, but also very upset this is only released now!!! don't think any current 991 owners could make this amandment....Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    As time has passed, I still prefer the rear lights on the 997.2 to those on the 991. Is it just me or did Porsche just get it right on the 997.2? What do you guys think?


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    easy_rider911:

    As time has passed, I still prefer the rear lights on the 997.2 to those on the 991. Is it just me or did Porsche just get it right on the 997.2? What do you guys think?

    I'm still completely sold on the 997.1 rear lights, not so much on those of the 997.2, ...

    The 991 lights look very good when lit, the overall shape I'm still not entirely convinced. I like them more than the 997.2 lights for sure.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    easy_rider911:

    As time has passed, I still prefer the rear lights on the 997.2 to those on the 991. Is it just me or did Porsche just get it right on the 997.2? What do you guys think?


    Same here. The 991 lights are nice, but the lights of the of the 997 are just perfect. I like them both very much, 997.1 and 997.2. Porsche got it right twice. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    As time passes, I get less and less exited about the complete back of the car. It's not just the lights, it's mainly that line and the hight of the whole back.  In the long run, the 991 will be with the 996 . An unsatisfactory design that does not really match  the genes of a 911.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Sorry but, I disagree here big time. Today, I saw new 991CS and 997.2 CS side by side and for me 991 looked much, much better. Thank God that I do not currently own 997/997.2 so, I am not personally attached to its design. But of course, my view is also pretty subjective.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Had the 991CS cab for 48hrs last weekend, what a car !!! its far far better than the 997.1 and 997.2 in looks, characterwise etc. To me the 991 was a big leap fromthe 997...just perfect. waiting for the C4s cab then I order Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    Sorry but, I disagree here big time. Today, I saw new 991CS and 997.2 CS side by side and for me 991 looked much, much better. Thank God that I do not currently own 997/997.2 so, I am not personally attached to its design. But of course, my view is also pretty subjective.

    So you must also like the Audi TT .2 better then .1   Smiley

    Personally I never got used to the .2 . 

    But regarding the 997.2 /991, maybe I don't realize that as an owner of the first it affects my subjective view Smiley

    I just don't have to woaw factor about the 991 , no matter how hard I try .... ( and I am not talking about performance or interior , just the look of the back .. + front blinkers ) It is as high as a Panamera . Just put one next to the other ....


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


     
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