Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Testimony: Musk directed engineers to make falsified video of Autopilot capabilities.

      https://www.thedrive.com/news/elon-musk-personally-oversaw-staged-tesla-autopilot-video-report

    Sounds rather similar to another case...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    https://www.thedrive.com/news/41747/disgraced-nikola-founder-trevor-milton-charged-with-securities-fraud-by-federal-grand-jury


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    All to prop up stock price, nothing more.

     

    Wishful thinking to dream of 2016. Seven years later the tech has come a long way - showing that not only has huge progress been made but it is far from some ‘lie’. I do understand why these old stories and a five year old lawsuit about an even more outdated stock price give you comfort.  There is far more FUD and Twitter politics around the price going down then it going up.  

     

    Seven years later the onboard computer still prefer hitting stationary emergency vehicles, that's some kind of improvement!! NOT!!

    One would have thought by now, that 'smart' AI has seen MILLIONS of emergency vehicle images and figured out that's something to avoid, nope!.

    But nah, Elon would prefer to focus 7 sears of progress to program in a better sounding fart sound. 

    All the while competitors when from zero knowledge to advance driver monitoring systems that's not intrusive and can make sure the driver is alert and attentive while supervising the advance cruise control system. 

    I am sure the next OTA update will magically install infrared eye tracking hardware in the car to better monitor the driver's attentiveness. OTA fixes everything, right? Smiley

     

    Actually they added driver monitoring using the interior camera a long time ago via an over the air update.  They also check to make certain you don’t place a weight on the steering wheel to simulate a hand.  They tend to cover all bases if possible. 
    In terms of running into objects - the Tesla is far less likely than any other car to be involved in an injury accident.   Not certain why you would ever recommend against this car’s safety unless you know of a safer car. Do share.  I let your comments about it running into objects go because it is so way off base.  It actually does your friends here a disservice to imply the car is not safe and that other cars offer more protection. They don’t necessarily do that. 

     

    Hmm, the real world disagreed with your idea.

    Name another car that crashed into stationary emergency vehicle as frequently as Teslas. 

    You can't. there isn't a 2nd place. 1st place, 2nd place and 3rd place are all occupied by Teslas. 

    Outside of the circle of Tesla people, no one thinks or agree that Tesla are the safest car. it's only a point that Elon see repeating without proof. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    RC:
    amazon:

    Most customers want to know the value of the product they are  buying.

    The principle applies to all products you buy and keep : watches, house, cars, ...

    You're just not going to buy a 7K Omega if the risk exist that it will be sold the next day for 5K.

    It's the same problem with rebates. The bigger the rebates are, the less valuable the product is. Rebates make the product you sell accessible to more customers, but the one who buys don't get more value as the resale price goes down as well. 

    So what Tesla is doing is just non sense to me. It cheapens and hurts their products so much. What's the value of a tesla in the end ? No one really knows. So who's going to buy their products ? 50K to 70k is a lot of money even if you have the means. The rich people are the ones who are more likely to look at this, as they are the ones who understand the importance of value the most.

    Hurting existing customers in the prospect of having new ones is a silly move IMO. The existing customers are not going to get fooled twice. Some will take the risk, but how many are lost in the process ?

    Agreed. This is why I said I wouldn't buy an EV right now.

    Just imagine this scenario: You buy a BMW iX M60 for 150k EUR now.

    One year later, you get the same car with a new tech battery which stores double the capacity and/or charges in half of the time. What happens with the value of the "old" car? I think it would be disastrous.

    Scenarios like this one will happen at a certain point it time, also regarding weight: At some point, battery weight will drop substantially because of new tech. Then what? Would someone still buy basically the same (used) car if it weights 300 kg more than the new one? Used car prices would be hammered.

    Right now is, in my opinion, not the time to buy EVs. Too risky. 

     

     

    Exactly why my 2 Ford EVs, and my previous e-Tron, were all on leases. Only my Taycans were purchased. But even that I didn't go for the top of the line ones, only the entry level 4S.

    I wouldn't want to be stuck with an old tech 400V EV. And I only actually buy the Taycans because they were Porsches, and they uses next generation 800V system. 

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    I think you all totally miss the plot here - 

    1)  Tesla prices increased the last two years like everyone else’s. Their reduction brings prices back down to where they were when I bought my car.  They are doing just fine as their costs have only dropped as their volume has doubled since then. 
    2) At any given time everyone is paying the same price unlike every other brand. People who ordered prior to the price cut will get the reduction when picking up their cars.  Unhappy would be if their car broke down and warranty repairs were slow or difficult.  To the contrary Tesla owners keep getting new features and functionality including safety improvements.  I give Elon credit for cutting prices in the fourth quarter to keep those customers happy. 
    3) And here is the big one - government incentives, not just in the US, were structured to bypass Tesla and favor the competition. With the ability to return to previous prices and be eligible for the incentives what would you have them do?  Are they supposed to be the only make not eligible for incentives when they have been not eligible for years now in the US and sit back?  Is not part of the incentive for automakers to make vehicles which qualify?  Think about it. Elections matter. Thank your elected clowns and their inability to see consequences. 
     

    This is not a good time to buy any car other than a Tesla.  Overall customers of Tesla are still the happiest of the bunch. 
    Price pressure on the others just as Tesla gets the factories up to speed is the perfect storm. 
     

    I have always believed in the inherent qualities of my EV and hated governments getting involved in promoting what is already a fine choice. It always causes grief to tinker with free markets. Tesla was to be royally screwed - it does not look like it will work out as planned.  Happy to see it. 

     

    I see someone getting really drunk on Elon's Kool-Aid as usual Smiley

    Tesla increases prices before to take advantage of the shortfall in supply.

    Now that they are over supplying, they had no choice by to offer rebates and cut prices. 

    Tesla also NEED to generate extra demand on their aging cars as they have 2 factories basically sitting idle. And idling factories cost a lot of money to keep it idling. The pressure is now on Tesla to actually deliver better cars to be competitive again, lower price can only go so far if the product is shit. Tesla was the EV leader, pioneer, they still have the biggest market share, but they are already behind on driver safety, aka driver monitoring, and more surprisingly, they are even behind on semi-autonomous driving, they aren't the first to get lvl 3 certified. Actually they aren't even lvl2 certified much less lvl3. They are behind on EV truck, they are behind on luxury, they are also behind on delivering low cost EVs. But at least they are still the leader on BS, by a mile. 

    Unfortunately for Tesla, others manufacturers who are still behind on their demand curve, have no need or incentive to cut price, they are selling everything they are making right now. They only way others will entertain that price cutting war would be for the market to be saturated with supply and cutting price is the only option to spur extra demand. 

    This is Econ 101 dude. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Econ lesson 101 from someone who has been correct about Tesla all these years. Perfect. This thread keeps on giving. 


    Re: Tesla

    The Left loved Elon for supporting their general direction via Tesla products.  I like them and our family owns 3 examples at the moment.

    Then, ... he purchased Twitter and let some ornery cats out of the bag.  I'm very suspicious of any negative PR campaigns aimed in Musk's direction right now since he would be taking arrows from the dis-enchanted Left as well as the usual shorts (who've always been very aggressive).


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Tesla

    The left had a problem with him buying Twitter that's for sure, the woke crowd thought they had lost a platform for them to do their propaganda.

    But the left never really touched on Tesla the car company. Whatever that's news right now are basic economic and automotive news. None of which are in Tesla's favour. And those aren't even coming from the left, they are just basic supply and demand numbers. As a listed company, Tesla has to report stuff and those stuff are public knowledge, not made up numbers. 

    Quarterly report is due soon, there might be more fireworks coming.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Once again, Consumer Reports fails to comprehend the brilliance of Tesla...

    Ford snags CR crown from GM in driver assistance rankings, Tesla ‘falls behind’ to 7th

    Scooter Doll

    Ford Tesla rankings

    Consumer Reports has released its latest rankings comparing the active driving assistance systems (ADAS) of EV automakers like Ford, GM, Rivian, and of course Tesla. The independent, non-profit consumer organization tested 12 different ADA systems broken down into five distinct categories in which it determined that Ford’s BlueCruise technology is the current industry leader, usurping General Motors’ Super Cruise. Tesla’s Autopilot, on the other hand, has tumbled off the podium into mediocrity.

    The CR rankings released this morning are comprised of months of vehicle testing from Ford, Hyundai Motor Group, Tesla, and even our friends over at Toyota. As you’ll see below, not all ADAS are created equal.

    At it’s core, the technology is a bolstered form of adaptive cruise control (ACC), that combines computer control of a vehicle’s brakes and acceleration with lane centering assistance (LCA) that also helps keep the vehicle a preset distance away from others in your lane.

    No matter what flavor Kool-Aid you choose to drink, full self-driving technology still feels perpetually two years away (ask Elon Musk). In the meantime, however, some automakers on the list below have developed some truly impressive technology as the bridge between fully-attentive driving and not doing anything at all.

    This sort of collaborative driving style may not be yet like an episode of The Jetsons, but it is still a marvel to experience in person and is becoming more and more common in passenger vehicles. According to CR’s data, ADA systems are already available on more than 50% of 2023 model-year vehicles – whether it’s an add-on or a standard feature.

    Let’s start with the rankings and go from there to explain how Ford nabbed the top spot and Tesla fell to middle of the pack. Have a look.

    Ford and GM top ADAS rankings, Tesla stumbles

    Consumer Reports explained that to determine this list, it put each of the 12 ADAS through laps around its own track in Connecticut, plus a 50-mile loop on public roads throughout late 2022. Per the report:

    Each system was rated for its performance in 40 separate tests, such as steering the car, controlling the speed, and keeping the driver safe and engaged with the act of driving. Additional features such as automatic lane changes or reacting for traffic lights were not evaluated in this test. 

    CR testers evaluated the way each of the 12 systems performed within five specific categories: capability and performance, keeping the driver engaged, ease of use, clear when safe to use, and unresponsive driver.

    In the latest rankings, Ford’s BlueCruise ADAS claimed the top spot over the previous leader in GM’s Super Cruise while Tesla, whose Autopilot sat in second place in 2020, dropped all the way to seventh. Consumer Reports explained that Ford and GM are leading the current pack because their systems also utilize direct driver monitoring systems (DDMS). These additional systems require drivers to keep their eyes on the road while the ADAS is activated, using infrared cameras on the driver’s face to alert them if they stop paying attention to the road.

    Most other systems on this list have not yet integrated DDMS and simply require occasional hand pressure on the steering wheel to at least give the impression that the driver is paying attention. We’ve seen Tesla drivers share creative but utterly dangerous loopholes in Autopilot’s steering wheel requirement, rigging their EV to be “hands free.” The American automaker has since integrated the detection of cheating devices, but has yet to adopt driver monitoring. 

    The CR team pointed out that systems in both Tesla and Mercedes-Benz vehicles allowed highway driving for approximately 30 seconds before any audible warning was given to retake the wheel. The testing team stated that amount of time time equates to over half a mile of driving without hands on the wheel and no method of ensuring the driver is even looking at the road.

    The rankings display that Ford’s BlueCruise technology is newer and more technologically advanced than everyone else, including Tesla – whose Autopilot technology has seen added features, but has kept the same basic functionality since day one. CR’s senior director of auto testing Jake Fisher elaborated:

    After all this time, Autopilot still doesn’t allow collaborative steering and doesn’t have an effective driver monitoring system. While other automakers have evolved their ACC and LCA systems, Tesla has simply fallen behind.

    We were surprised to see Volvo ranked 11th out of 12, considering passenger safety is a huge selling point in its overall brand. The automaker has promised to deliver one of the safest EVs on the planet when its upcoming EX90 hits the market, so perhaps its ADAS will see some improvements as well. We already know it will have advanced driver monitoring and will be able to safely stop the vehicle should you become unconscious.

    Ford, Tesla, and GM drivers, what do you think about these rankings?

    FTC: We use income earning auto affiliate links. More.


    Re: Tesla

    Just for fun try any of these systems for yourself and let me know which wins.  

    The categories are too funny. 
    Tesla has been doing driver monitoring for more than a year, the eyes, the wheel, the weight in the seat etc.  They had to ignore this and dozens of other things ( like cost lol ) to make this headline seem believable to those who know nothing about tech.  If you believe these rankings and story then you can include yourself in that group.  The content is that embarrassing.  The way you can tell who is behind - those who tell you how many miles of highway they have mapped for use.  That tells you all you need to know. 
     

    Bottom line -

    They are comparing the top of the line - extra cost - geo-fenced solutions, available in some new cars with top trim levels, to a ten year old Tesla autopilot stack which is free which each car And then don’t understand how it works or they choose to tell half the facts.  It is really sad the lengths they go to in order to come up with these results.  And the old stack still does a much better job, on any street.

    Go ahead and try any of these - then ride along with a friend and who has Tesla FSD.  
     

    happy to help and keep you from making dumb choices based on this info.  Maybe wonder a bit why friends would promote this information.  It certainly does not help to inform.  I’m glad to help so you don’t make a mistake thinking this stuff is accurate.

     


    Re: Tesla

    For those that actually know tech, it's super easy to see that software updates will never ever be able to add missing hardware. And hardware is what's missing inside Teslas for effective driver monitoring.

    But nevertheless, the uninformed are almost always got fooled by the Tesla pitch, oh it's just an update away, software is coming, more features planned, etc. 

    There is no combination of sensors already inside a Tesla that can do what others are doing. What's needed is adding hardware. Whatever software solutions Tesla came up with that say they are monitoring, is easily defeat-able within 5 mins of searching Youtube. 

    Can't believe the Tesla crowd still try to muddle the water with so much disinformation. Haven't they learn yet? The public aren't easily fooled like before, hence why they are buying the competition more and more.

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:



    The categories are too funny. 
    Tesla has been doing driver monitoring for more than a year, the eyes, the wheel, the weight in the seat etc. 

    And unless they changed it in the last months apparently you can cover the driver facing camera while on Autopilot and you won't even get as much as an alert, and then just put a simple weight on the steering wheel and that is it, you are good to go to take a nap at the wheel if your are driving a Tesla...  (https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/tesla-driver-monitoring-fails-to-keep-driver-focus-on-road-a3964813328/)

    But it gets better:

    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/nhtsa-asked-tesla-about-elon-musk-s-tweet-on-disabling-driver-monitoring-on-fsd-208063.html


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:



    The categories are too funny. 
    Tesla has been doing driver monitoring for more than a year, the eyes, the wheel, the weight in the seat etc. 

    And unless they changed it in the last months apparently you can cover the driver facing camera while on Autopilot and you won't even get as much as an alert, and then just put a simple weight on the steering wheel and that is it, you are good to go to take a nap at the wheel if your are driving a Tesla...  (https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/tesla-driver-monitoring-fails-to-keep-driver-focus-on-road-a3964813328/)

    But it gets better:

    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/nhtsa-asked-tesla-about-elon-musk-s-tweet-on-disabling-driver-monitoring-on-fsd-208063.html

     

    Yeah well anything that's not said by Elon and is critical of Tesla will be labeled as false, slandering or whatever. Truth can never get in.


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    So we went from there is no hardware inside to the camera can be covered up.  Not counting wheel sensors, seat belt and seat weight sensors and so on. What is the magic sauce of driver monitoring that will make self driving work?  
    And I imagine none of the other cars have ways to disable the monitors. Those cameras can’t be covered?  The Ford does not even come to a stop when the driver can’t be alerted to drive. No amount of mapping data will make these systems safe much less driver monitoring but I get why they are so concerned about the driver not actually driving. 
    https://youtu.be/iTfwHxMkB6o

    meanwhile here is a short clip of the latest FSD driving around. This is available in beta now to any Tesla owner for $200 per month anytime you want to active it by phone or in the car. Argue all you want about monitoring the driver and not about actual progress. Note that all the driver needs to do is double click the right stalk. No idea why it is rated as hard to use. It even knows your destination from your phone appointments if you like. 
    Enjoy the drive while you ponder geofenced solutions.   Billions of miles have now been covered by Tesla. 


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:



    The categories are too funny. 
    Tesla has been doing driver monitoring for more than a year, the eyes, the wheel, the weight in the seat etc. 

    And unless they changed it in the last months apparently you can cover the driver facing camera while on Autopilot and you won't even get as much as an alert, and then just put a simple weight on the steering wheel and that is it, you are good to go to take a nap at the wheel if your are driving a Tesla...  (https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/tesla-driver-monitoring-fails-to-keep-driver-focus-on-road-a3964813328/)

    But it gets better:

    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/nhtsa-asked-tesla-about-elon-musk-s-tweet-on-disabling-driver-monitoring-on-fsd-208063.html

     

    Yeah well anything that's not said by Elon and is critical of Tesla will be labeled as false, slandering or whatever. Truth can never get in.

    How much time do you want to spend in watching the driver vs the road?  People are far too creative. At least the Tesla comes to a safe stop at the side of the road when you have a stroke or fall asleep. 
    To seriously argue that anytime you are wrong it must be just because Elon is lying or his car owners are blinded is such a weak ass argument but it is all you have so I support your right to cling to it.  Think about the ‘truth’ you are trying to spread and the consequences if someone actually took you seriously.  


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:



    The categories are too funny. 
    Tesla has been doing driver monitoring for more than a year, the eyes, the wheel, the weight in the seat etc. 

    And unless they changed it in the last months apparently you can cover the driver facing camera while on Autopilot and you won't even get as much as an alert, and then just put a simple weight on the steering wheel and that is it, you are good to go to take a nap at the wheel if your are driving a Tesla...  (https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/tesla-driver-monitoring-fails-to-keep-driver-focus-on-road-a3964813328/)

    But it gets better:

    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/nhtsa-asked-tesla-about-elon-musk-s-tweet-on-disabling-driver-monitoring-on-fsd-208063.html

    First he was monitoring the wheel and everyone complained the other systems with the camera watching the driver was the only way to go. So he did that and the wheel. Then He improves monitoring the wheel.  Now he is doing both and a whole lot more not to mention the actual driving capabilities which blow the competition away. And you are outraged he is thinking about not monitoring the wheel any longer like all the others never did. There is nothing that he can ever do to make a critic of Tesla happy.  What is sad  is that these people will not enjoy Tesla ownership. They will be driving all the shitty EVs, just don’t listen to their recommendations. 
    Btw -  if none of your cars have ever had a steering wheel nag - where is the outrage?  


    Re: Tesla

    Blah blah blah.........

    Same old excuses and same old whataboutism. 

    Nothing new.

    Like I said, Tesla people doesn't like criticisms. They only want circle jerks. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Blah blah blah.........

    Same old excuses and same old whataboutism. 

    Nothing new.

    Like I said, Tesla people doesn't like criticisms. They only want circle jerks. 

    We simply favor truth. 
    blah blah blah actually makes more sense than past arguments. Cheers buddy - how is the $50 buy order going?  Did you catch the Q4 numbers (all lies and carbon credits?) 


    Re: Tesla

    I am sorry but we are the one telling you the truth while you are the one grasping at straws to argue. Hence the blah blah blah.

    At some point in time, you should have realized something is wrong when only you and your fellow Tesla people are speaking one thing while the whole world is speak another. It's not even about 'Tesla hater' or not. Even Tesla centric websites are publishing something critical of Tesla, and that would means you and your fellow Tesla people are wrong.

    As for the $50 buy order, it's still open, I can wait forever, I am not desperate to buy into Tesla again. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    “EIon Musk kills hope of Tesla retrofitting new Autopilot/Self-Driving hardware”

    - by Fred Lambert

    (26 January 2023)

    Elon Musk has killed the little hope some had for Tesla in offering a retrofit to the new Autopilot/Self-Driving hardware (HW4) to current Tesla owners.

    Tesla is expected to announce a new Autopilot/Self-Driving hardware suite, which has been referred to as Hardware 4.0 (HW4), any day now.

    There have been quite a few indications that some major changes are coming. For example, after famously removing radar sensors from its hardware suite, we learned in December that Tesla is planning to add one as soon as this month.

    Additionally, we also reported on a Tesla Model 3 prototype that potentially featured a new Autopilot/Full Self-Driving hardware suite.

    Finally, a report coming out of China showed that Tesla applied with regulators for some modifications to its vehicles, including new Autopilot cameras.

    Now during Tesla’s conference call for the release of its Q4 2022 financial results, CEO Elon Musk was asked about the potential of Tesla offering retrofits to the new hardware for current Tesla owners, but the CEO shut down the idea:

    “The cost and difficulty of retrofitting Hardware 3 with Hardware 4 is quite significant. So it would not be, I think, economically feasible to do so.”

    Link: https://electrek.co/2023/01/26/elon-musk-kills-hope-tesla-retrofitting-new-autopilot-self-driving-hardware/

    Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Oops. And someone was just saying it runs great without radar and additional hardware.........

    The whole point of Elon removing those hardware in the first place was to save money on each car. He was betting he could get it to work with only 2D images. 

    Well the real world happens and 2D images proved to be not working. They need distance measurements after all. 

    The money saved in Ella those quarters was good for the bottom line, but now that Tesla is playing catch up to competition instead of leading, he has no choice but to add them back to be semi-competitive.

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Why not take a look at some of the examples of FSD in use on YouTube.  2D images?  You seriously don’t think they can judge distances or recognize objects?  The big problem is real world variables, it always has been and always will be. We all know this. Any geofenced solution will never work until they face the complexity of the real world. Tesla is heading into solving this problem.  Anyone else looking to solve these difficult problems?  Maybe Apple or Google but not any car makers. 
    In terms of me being the only one who thinks Tesla is doing just fine in will point you to the stock market, any of the owners and the auto industry.  The irrational opposition is another fine example to consider. 

    Here is the thing - my motivation is based on a genuine understanding of cars and my satisfaction with many aspects the Model 3 performance.  Many agree including a vast majority of owners. Is the satisfaction of the owners not the most important factor???  Look at all the unnecessary shit I put up with. I would not defend my Turbo like this because it does not get such strange and unwarranted FUD hurled at it. But if it did… lol

     I don’t have to buy each EV to know when total BS about Tesla is spread around.  But at this point I am assuming someone who has owned many EV obviously knows better and is just being mildly entertaining to inject some fun into this thread. 
    Anyway , don’t want to break character. 
    So many of these articles are sensationalized headlines to feed a certain narrative but then the contents never supports the headline.  All I am offering are common sense details and a bit of ownership experience. 
    It is frustrating when clearly false information is just repeated over and over again as if nobody is paying attention like that Tesla is not monitoring the driver or that they drive into cars/stuff routinely.  Of course I am going to point out the gross exaggeration and provide reasonable facts and my OPINION. 
    Im pretty obviously comfortable knowing that readers of this thread are entertained by both sides and smart enough to spot the truth and people’s motivations here. 
    funniest thing I have heard so far - Tesla is playing catch-up.  Please try to top that one. Let us know who is leading 


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Oops. And someone was just saying it runs great without radar and additional hardware.........

    The whole point of Elon removing those hardware in the first place was to save money on each car. He was betting he could get it to work with only 2D images. 

    Well the real world happens and 2D images proved to be not working. They need distance measurements after all. 

    The money saved in Ella those quarters was good for the bottom line, but now that Tesla is playing catch up to competition instead of leading, he has no choice but to add them back to be semi-competitive.

    Maybe Leawood needs some more serious convincing:

    US Marines Defeat DARPA Robot by Hiding Under a Cardboard Box

    I don't say that modern camera/sensor system won't be capable of true AI at human level at some point in the future but I doubt it is going to happen over the next decade or so. This requires a new generation (maybe even a next next level generation) of sensors/cameras and of course AI software/hardware.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Why not take a look at some of the examples of FSD in use on YouTube.  2D images?  You seriously don’t think they can judge distances or recognize objects?  The big problem is real world variables, it always has been and always will be. We all know this. Any geofenced solution will never work until they face the complexity of the real world. Tesla is heading into solving this problem.  Anyone else looking to solve these difficult problems?  Maybe Apple or Google but not any car makers. 
    In terms of me being the only one who thinks Tesla is doing just fine in will point you to the stock market, any of the owners and the auto industry.  The irrational opposition is another fine example to consider. 

    Elon is trying to run before learning to walk. He is trying to skip a step, a crucial step.

    'Recognizing objects', well, Tesla has proven time and time again they failed, it still doesn't recognize a giant red fire truck or white ambulance as obstacles. Not to mention the phantom braking thing as it's camera failed to recognize it something they 'see' isn't there, radar or lidar distance measuring devices would have told the system there is nothing there. 

    Also don't group the auto industry WITH Tesla. Tesla is doing its own thing while the rest of the industry are doing another, they aren't doing 'the same thing'. They saw Tesla's initial lead, they looked at it and found deficiencies, and go a different direction, leaving Tesla behind in the other path. Plain and simple. The only ones that think Tesla is doing fine is just Tesla people. 

    Stock market? Ha, Enron and WorldCom was doing great in the stock market too. Just saying, it means absolutely nothing.



    Here is the thing - my motivation is based on a genuine understanding of cars and my satisfaction with many aspects the Model 3 performance.  Many agree including a vast majority of owners. Is the satisfaction of the owners not the most important factor???  Look at all the unnecessary shit I put up with. I would not defend my Turbo like this because it does not get such strange and unwarranted FUD hurled at it. But if it did… lol

     

    Yes, YOUR opinion. And other Tesla owners'. Nothing more. Biased much?



     I don’t have to buy each EV to know when total BS about Tesla is spread around.  But at this point I am assuming someone who has owned many EV obviously knows better and is just being mildly entertaining to inject some fun into this thread. 

    You should try and experience other EVs. There is a whole forest out there, yet you only ever want to look at your own tree. 

    There is no perfect EV. None. Every one has their strength and weaknesses, each has their own area to excel at, including Teslas. 


    Anyway , don’t want to break character. 
    So many of these articles are sensationalized headlines to feed a certain narrative but then the contents never supports the headline.  All I am offering are common sense details and a bit of ownership experience. 
    It is frustrating when clearly false information is just repeated over and over again as if nobody is paying attention like that Tesla is not monitoring the driver or that they drive into cars/stuff routinely.  Of course I am going to point out the gross exaggeration and provide reasonable facts and my OPINION. 
    Im pretty obviously comfortable knowing that readers of this thread are entertained by both sides and smart enough to spot the truth and people’s motivations here. 
    funniest thing I have heard so far - Tesla is playing catch-up.  Please try to top that one. Let us know who is leading 

     

    And again, Tesla people are the one spreading false truth, to try and protect 'their' brand, nothing more. The whole world can't be lying all together. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Chief Executive Elon Musk says Tesla is making design and software changes to its vehicles to lower repair costs and insurance premiums.

     

    You can't even make this shit up even if you tried, really hard. Software changes to lower repair cost 

    Guessing the next OTA update will enable memory metal in its frame and fenders, after an accident any body panels damaged will magically go back to the original shape. 

    https://www.autoblog.com/2023/01/27/tesla-expensive-to-repair-insurers-writing-off-damaged-cars/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADQD1-fG7ZrdNiDZdCZm28lxBcTZcda0Oe-QcSbElnI_rb_7GR5RmIy2blKmopbENNhaWRggZzwwRsh0NRSX7JhIPIFSEQ0o-G-Yw0sELEalJR5ZYRsm5OC-hONiBQa1gTMaMvJG7RpCahLxSd6-xZrJMnhYgGeGHc_AOIlJ7YzE

    The problem with Teslas' high repair cost was their 'mega stampings'. They make each section as big as possible to lower production cost, but that runs contrary to repair costs as body shops will need to buy excessively expensive panels just to repair small sections. 

    Body shops dreading repairing Teslas also because the fittings and clips holding stuff together are fragile, they are mostly designed as one use items, cheap for the manufacturer to use but the expense adds up during the repair process as new stuff has to be ordered. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    I did mention buying Tesla shares at 122.6299 because I was confident the stock would be moving upward. Then it dropped and I did keep Whoopsy's $50 price in mind. Then it rose to where I could break even and get back out, but I stayed. It dropped again so I doubled down and bought at 110.80; after which it dropped so in a bit of a fit of peak (being half Irish) I bought again at 107.90

    Closed today at 177.90 so I do keep in mind that you have not actually made money until you actually sell your shares, but I think that I will stay a bit longer. Their cars are not the products that interest me the most anyway, but they seem to be okay by the general public at large. Even have appeal to some auto enthusiasts, but clearly not all.


    Re: Tesla

    Gladstone:

    I did mention buying Tesla shares at 122.6299 because I was confident the stock would be moving upward. Then it dropped and I did keep Whoopsy's $50 price in mind. Then it rose to where I could break even and get back out, but I stayed. It dropped again so I doubled down and bought at 110.80; after which it dropped so in a bit of a fit of peak (being half Irish) I bought again at 107.90

    Closed today at 177.90 so I do keep in mind that you have not actually made money until you actually sell your shares, but I think that I will stay a bit longer. Their cars are not the products that interest me the most anyway, but they seem to be okay by the general public at large. Even have appeal to some auto enthusiasts, but clearly not all.

     

    Smiley Good for you Gladstone!! 

    TSLA is not a fundamentals stock, it's an emotional and sentiment stock detached from fundamentals and reality. I haven't touched it since about $60 pre-pre-pre-split. Made enough trading it in about 6 months back then to pay for my Ferrari and I was done. Do I wish I am still trading it? Nope, absolutely not. I am not in need of money, I don't need a stock to make me lots of money very quickly or lose it even more quickly. There is a thing called casino 15mins from home if I want to do that. 

    Do I still believe $50 a share is fair valued? Yes, absolutely. Based on fundamentals I calculated it is a $50 stock including future growth. Will I be shorting it if I am that convinced? Nope. I don't play against crazies, there is no rational behind the thinking of crazies hence why they are crazy to start off with. Another thing I won't do is jumping off solid ground, so no bungie jumping, parachuting, BASE jumping for me either. 

     

     

     


    --

     

     


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 5/18/22 6:36 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    690162 1306
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 1/27/23 7:12 PM
    Porker
    322653 1191
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 1/26/23 4:09 PM
    W8MM
    221556 1340
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 1/28/23 3:45 AM
    Spyderidol
    206203 465
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/6/22 12:37 AM
    WhoopsyM
    187602 580
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 1/20/23 10:57 PM
    Pilot
    133003 58
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 11/30/22 2:30 PM
    GnilM
    58413 68
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/1/22 10:14 PM
    SSO.
    524007 3954
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/25/22 1:02 AM
    CGX car nut
    483613 2663
    Porsche 992 GT3 1/3/23 6:48 PM
    Grant
    478670 3792
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 1/21/23 3:51 PM
    CGX car nut
    233961 1491
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 9/30/22 6:31 PM
    Grant
    232151 774
    AMG AMG GT R 3/13/22 8:52 PM
    spudgun
    202144 834
    Lambo Aventador and SV 5/20/22 5:24 PM
    Topspeed
    198247 710
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 1/28/23 12:31 AM
    WhoopsyM
    196715 2035
    Porsche GT4RS 12/30/22 1:28 AM
    JAMS
    192455 1194
    Motor Sp. [2021] Formula 1 4/19/22 10:08 PM
    Leawood911
    165086 1590
    Others Bugatti Chiron 8/30/22 4:31 PM
    Josef
    162143 525
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 6/12/22 5:09 PM
    watt
    158234 535
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 2/28/22 7:42 PM
    Topspeed
    144812 409
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 1/3/23 10:08 PM
    blueflame
    141926 509
    Lambo Urus (SUV) 6/7/22 1:20 PM
    Topspeed
    139613 593
    Others Corvette C8 7/18/22 12:40 PM
    WhoopsyM
    138674 443
    Porsche Dave and Gnil @ Nürburgring Nordschleife 7/4/22 10:42 PM
    DaveGordon
    137149 722
    Motor Sp. [2022] Formula 1 1/13/23 3:57 PM
    Leawood911
    129476 1572
    Others Toyota Yaris GR 4/13/22 8:33 PM
    Grant
    108467 640
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/21/22 8:37 AM
    RCA
    107322 335
    AMG Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 10/24/22 7:42 AM
    RCA
    105114 402
    Ferrari Wandered to the dark side 8/29/22 9:35 AM
    BiTurbo
    80309 418
    Ferrari Ferrari Roma 4/18/22 4:33 PM
    watt
    32628 438
    166 items found, displaying 1 to 30.