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    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    It sounds like Tesla are going to have some serious competition from Audi...

    "Audi starts taking deposits for e-tron SUV"

    The e-tron Sportback, pictured as a concept, will go into production in 2019.

    (29 January 2018)

    FRANKFURT -- Audi is taking deposits from potential customers for its new e-tron full-electric SUV in four European markets.

    The e-tron SUV is the first model in Audi's electric car product offensive as the automaker seeks to restore its technology credentials badly dented by its involvement in parent Volkswagen Group's diesel-rigging scandal.

    It will launch later this year as a rival to cars such as the Tesla Model X and Jaguar I-Pace.

    Audi has already received 5,000 orders in Norway, Europe's largest EV market, where potential buyers can reserve the car for 20,000 Kronor (2,000 euros), an Audi spokeswoman said.

    Audi dealers in Switzerland, Austria and Belgium, where the e-tron will be built, also are accepting reservations. Audi's local sales organizations in other markets, such as Germany and China will decide separately when to start taking orders, the spokeswoman said.

    The e-tron will have a range of 500km (311 miles) and fast charging. Its drivetrain will have a maximum output of 496 hp and generate as much as 800 Newton meters of torque. This performance allows the vehicle to accelerate from 0 to 100 kph (62 mph) in 4.6 seconds. Top speed will be 210 kph (130 mph). Its 4880mm length positions the SUV between the Q5 and Q7 and its roofline is lower than both those models.

    EV blitz

    The e-tron SUV is the first of three full-electric cars Audi will launch by 2020.

    It will be unveiled in Brussels at the end of August in an event Audi calls a summit, CEO Rupert Stadler told reporters earlier this month. The automaker held a similar unveiling for its latest A8 sedan in Barcelona last July.

    The second EV, which will be called the e-tron Sportback, will launch next year. The car will be a fastback model sitting lower than an SUV but with a more elevated driving position than a standard hatchback. Both of the cars are based on Audi's MLB platform and will be built at the automaker's factory in Brussels.

    The third EV will be compact model built on VW Group's new MEB electric cars platform. It will launch in 2020, shortly after VW brand's MEB-based I.D. compact hatchback. No production location has been announced.

    Audi plans to launch 20 electrified models by 2025, of which more than 10 will be full-electric models. Starting in 2021, Audi will add EVs built on a new premium electric platform it is developing with Porsche. Last November Audi said it will build two full-electric cars at its main plant in Ingolstadt, Germany.

    Stadler has also said the company will build electric vehicles at its plants across the world, including sites in Mexico and Hungary.

    Link: http://europe.autonews.com/article/20180129/ANE/180129814/audi-starts-taking-deposits-for-e-tron-suv

    ...Tesla might even lose a few deposits! Smiley


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    SciFrog:
    let’s not forget that the model S is an old car by now

    Hey, we finally agree on something when it comes to Tesla Smiley

    Tesla already feels kind of outdated these days. Was different 12 months ago. The trend is over, maybe.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    MKSGR:
    SciFrog:
    let’s not forget that the model S is an old car by now

    Hey, we finally agree on something when it comes to Tesla Smiley

    Tesla already feels kind of outdated these days. Was different 12 months ago. The trend is over, maybe.

    Tesla doesn't have the capital to refresh its Model S and Model X, beyond superficial updates, plus Musk has deemed the products obsolescent-proof.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    BTW - I'm still waiting for Tesla to pay back my down payment for the Model 3. I claimed it back 2 months ago. They did respond to my 3rd email that I should give them my bank account number. Since that time I never heard back. They don't respond to any mail and in my online account I don't even see my reservation anymore. 

    It is insane!


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Lars997:

    BTW - I'm still waiting for Tesla to pay back my down payment for the Model 3. I claimed it back 2 months ago. They did respond to my 3rd email that I should give them my bank account number. Since that time I never heard back. They don't respond to any mail and in my online account I don't even see my reservation anymore. 

    It is insane!

    This is certainly not a good sign Smiley


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    MKSGR:
    Lars997:

    BTW - I'm still waiting for Tesla to pay back my down payment for the Model 3. I claimed it back 2 months ago. They did respond to my 3rd email that I should give them my bank account number. Since that time I never heard back. They don't respond to any mail and in my online account I don't even see my reservation anymore. 

    It is insane!

    This is certainly not a good sign Smiley

    It sounds like Tesla are managing their cash balance rather carefully ahead of a potential liquidity squeeze in 2018.

    Tesla was in the ABS bond market this week, raising $546m secured by (significantly over-collateralized) lease payments from Model X and Model S customers. Hence, the credit risk on the bonds is focused on customers and therefore much stronger than Tesla's own (weak) sub-investment grade rating.

    So there's not excuse for not returning your customer deposit... (unless they are going into Chapter 11)

    Tesla report Q4 2017 results next week, so expect press coverage and a timely update from equity and credit analysts.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Model X's quality fit and finish is like a 90's Kia angry

    https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-teardown-by-engineering-firm-reveals-qual-1822678045


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    The biggest problem with the model 3 is the complete lack of any buttons. So to do anything you have to go through the screen, even opening the glovebox. So if the car isn’t running you’re screwed. 


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Yeah, I think the car could in fact use some button and levers and switches. Wipers would be a good one. Most stuff you can do fine from the touch screen, but some things are just dumb. Yeah, like wipers.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:

    Model X's quality fit and finish is like a 90's Kia angry

    https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-teardown-by-engineering-firm-reveals-qual-1822678045

    That’s the Model 3 in the video.  Buried in the comment section is an hour long show of Munro discussing the levels of innovation with the BMW i3.   It is quite the contrast between BMW and Tesla.   There is no possible way the Model 3 is being built on a highly automated assembly system with the failures of build qualit; those systems require reliability in placement, something lacking in this car.   


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    CGX car nut:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Model X's quality fit and finish is like a 90's Kia angry

    https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-teardown-by-engineering-firm-reveals-qual-1822678045

    That’s the Model 3 in the video.  Buried in the comment section is an hour long show of Munro discussing the levels of innovation with the BMW i3.   It is quite the contrast between BMW and Tesla.   There is no possible way the Model 3 is being built on a highly automated assembly system with the failures of build qualit; those systems require reliability in placement, something lacking in this car.   

    Yeah sorry that was a typo, it's the rushed model 3. Wonder how those cars are going to hold up in a couple of years.... As soon as the German and othero equivalents hit the market, these Teslas are going to look outdated and cheap, the cool-aid halo will be gone, and you can't fix that with an OTA update smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    LOL, what a circle jerk for Tesla hate in here.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    I wouldn't call it circle jerk of Tesla hate.

    They are just being realistic instead of blindly drinking Elon's koolaid.

     


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    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    The Model 3 is the best 300 mile EV you can get in the price range. Can anyone prove otherwise?


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    I wouldn't call it circle jerk of Tesla hate.

    They are just being realistic instead of blindly drinking Elon's koolaid.

     


    It's not about any koolaid. It's about the tone of voice and level of exaggerated negative view presented in here for everything Tesla. It would have been more interesting with a balanced discussion, but that seems to be impossible.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Speaking of quality, how are all you 991.1 GT3 owners doing? Are your engines working still?

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    noone1:

    The Model 3 is the best 300 mile EV you can get in the price range. Can anyone prove otherwise?

    Ofcourse it is. It has no competition, yet. At $60k it is not a bargain as many think it is based on the starting price of $35k. 


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    lukestern:
    Whoopsy:

    I wouldn't call it circle jerk of Tesla hate.

    They are just being realistic instead of blindly drinking Elon's koolaid.

     


    It's not about any koolaid. It's about the tone of voice and level of exaggerated negative view presented in here for everything Tesla. It would have been more interesting with a balanced discussion, but that seems to be impossible.

    The cars fall woefully short on engineering quality, both in design and in manufacture, yet any attempt at that discussion level quickly descends into a polarizing mass.   While Tesla is seen by some as a first mover and market leader, it has too many shortcomings, starting with its senior most manager, who is most capable at hurling platitudes, not manufacturing high quality automobiles.   Recall that this is allegedly the carmaker that reinvents the industry, yet its products lack in many of the criteria compared with low priced high volume builders, let alone the premium manufacturers.

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Have you driven a Model S? It's fine. Nothing wrong with the design or engineering quality as far as I could tell. Would take it over some 5er or E-Class any day of the week. Interior design could be spruced up a bit, but materials and functionality was fine.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    lukestern:
    Whoopsy:

    I wouldn't call it circle jerk of Tesla hate.

    They are just being realistic instead of blindly drinking Elon's koolaid.

     


    It's not about any koolaid. It's about the tone of voice and level of exaggerated negative view presented in here for everything Tesla. It would have been more interesting with a balanced discussion, but that seems to be impossible.

     

    What is not balanced?

    We talked about Tesla's strength too in case you forget. The packaging for the Model S is quite amazing, cramming 7 people into a sedan. Not match by any car since the reverse seating of wagons like the old E-class wagons.

    The Model X is the fastest minivan there is, no one disputed that fact.

    We also praised the straight line acceleration of the Model S from rest. 

    I believe we are also quite positive about the incoming Tesla semis, calling it a great idea and something Tesla should shift it's focus on.

    We also touched on the good range of Teslas, mostly good enough for a lot of people that doesn't travel too far on a single round trip, and for others, it could be good for a whole week without charging.

    But you know, in the end, this is not a EV forum. We aren't worshipers of EVs. We don't just talk about the good things and ignore the bad.

    Porsche is our primary focus here, but do we blindly praises them? Nope, plenty of negative stuff has been written and posted by members, yours truly included, nothing is sacred, I have trashed the almighty 918 plenty too and I owned the damn thing.

     


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    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    What is not balanced?

    We talked about Tesla's strength too in case you forget. The packaging for the Model S is quite amazing, cramming 7 people into a sedan. Not match by any car since the reverse seating of wagons like the old E-class wagons.

    The Model X is the fastest minivan there is, no one disputed that fact.

    We also praised the straight line acceleration of the Model S from rest. 

    I believe we are also quite positive about the incoming Tesla semis, calling it a great idea and something Tesla should shift it's focus on.

    We also touched on the good range of Teslas, mostly good enough for a lot of people that doesn't travel too far on a single round trip, and for others, it could be good for a whole week without charging.

    But you know, in the end, this is not a EV forum. We aren't worshipers of EVs. We don't just talk about the good things and ignore the bad.

    Porsche is our primary focus here, but do we blindly praises them? Nope, plenty of negative stuff has been written and posted by members, yours truly included, nothing is sacred, I have trashed the almighty 918 plenty too and I owned the damn thing.

     


    Well, you have some good points there Smiley


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Boy, if only I can tell the whole story.

    Porsche have a giant shit storm on their hands right now related to the GT2RS and also the way they do business with the old guards. Nothing's leaked yet.

    It will make the debacle on the 911R looks like child's play.

     


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    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    Boy, if only I can tell the whole story.

    Porsche have a giant shit storm on their hands right now related to the GT2RS and also the way they do business with the old guards. Nothing's leaked yet.

    It will make the debacle on the 911R looks like child's play.

     

    Doesn't sound very appealing. Guess we'll hear more about this in due course over in the GT2RS thread.


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    noone1:

    The Model 3 is the best 300 mile EV you can get in the price range. Can anyone prove otherwise?

    The car is not available... An important little problem Smiley


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    noone1:

    Speaking of quality, how are all you 991.1 GT3 owners doing? Are your engines working still?

     

    Fantastic - now with the new warranty around motor n drivetrain u don’t even need to warm up anymore SmileySmileySmiley


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    https://www.autoblog.com/2018/02/05/tesla-roadster-fastest-car-galaxy/

    Well this is one way to ensure a Tesla will hit and exceed the top speed target Elon had mentioned. 


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    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Whoopsy - you said "owned" 918 - does that mean it's gone? (did I miss this??)


    --

    991 Carrera Black Edition, XC90 Black\Black - 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    bridggar:

    Whoopsy - you said "owned" 918 - does that mean it's gone? (did I miss this??)

     

    Lol no, you miss read what I mean, its still sitting in the garage. but it hasn't been used for I think almost 3 months.................

    Which reminds me to move it just so the tires don't flat spot! 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    How is this for stark contrast? between Elon's 2 companies, SpaceX and Tesla.

    One can almost do no wrong, and mostly universally loved. That last SpaceX launch is quite something.

    Perhaps it was because SpaceX is privately held, Elon doesn't need come out now and then to say something to prop up the stock price. It can focus more on what it CAN do.

    Tesla on the other hand is quite almost like choosing a political party in the USA, there is almost no middle ground. Either one is a blind fanatic or one is a blind skeptic. 

    Perhaps Tesla might work better if Elon take it private, away from the public eye so Elon doesn't have to talk big about it every 3 months. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Model X Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    How is this for stark contrast? between Elon's 2 companies, SpaceX and Tesla.

    One can almost do no wrong, and mostly universally loved. That last SpaceX launch is quite something.

    Perhaps it was because SpaceX is privately held, Elon doesn't need come out now and then to say something to prop up the stock price. It can focus more on what it CAN do.

    Tesla on the other hand is quite almost like choosing a political party in the USA, there is almost no middle ground. Either one is a blind fanatic or one is a blind skeptic. 

    Perhaps Tesla might work better if Elon take it private, away from the public eye so Elon doesn't have to talk big about it every 3 months. 

    The SpaceX Falcon Heavy launch is really ground breaking. What an achievement! And Musk is for sure the mastermind of creating PR.

    Tesla is far from being anywhere near as polarizing as politics (e.g. Trump lovers vs. Trump haters). Tesla is very polarizing in car communities and among companies that sees electrification as a threat against their revenues, but outside of that the general perception about Tesla is probably mostly positive or people don't care that much.

    An interesting thought for sure what it would have looked like if Tesla would have taken the same route as Space X and not gone public... 


     
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