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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I see no issue with the convertibles either. But the doomsayers have been pounding the future inability for Tesla to raise more capital. After all, that’s the only way they really get in trouble: no more cash. But since they seem so close to real positive free cash flow, it is likely a non issue.

    Let’s put it another way, why do you think the stock is hovering around the highs again despite Elon’s public blunders? Well one hint is that short sellers HAVE to buy back one day. You cannot stay short forever, it is too expensive. The other is that all the big words to scare people away from investing in Tesla turned out to be disingenuous.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Everything clears at a price. Do they replace it at the 10 year rate (under 3% right now) or do they have to move up the yield curve more? It' gets done. I've raised hundreds of millions in debt in the past two years for companies that are a shadow of Tesla (and most of those have cleared at sub 6.5% rates on 5 year paper)

    Also remember that when the top 15 institutional equity holders of Tesla have a $29B equity exposure and 12 of them also own bond funds it's in their best interests to buy the bond to support the equity. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Exactly: the difficulty for Tesla to raise cash has been greatly exaggerated by the short sellers. There are too many people believing in Musk and who have vested or not vested for him to succeed. Just think about this: Tesla puts back the USA at the forefront of auto manufacturing when that has been dominated by the Germans for decades. On the other side, I fully expect Europeans to push very hard for Tesla to fail, as some here do.

    Personally I would like Musk to succeed for two main reasons: first I think EV is the future and it is probably a good thing for our planet. Second I am unhappy with several manufacturers, Porsche in particular, with the way they decide to run their business. I am deeply convinced they are holding back better products or products people really want only by pure greed. They have also held back (at the minimum delayed) technological advances over decades for mostly the same reasons. They also artificially limit some models to create marketing buzz and frustrate customers. And they refuse to improve their products once it is out of the door (there are a few exceptions, the 918 is one, McLaren and AM is another). We can also add to that abysmal dealership experience in sales and service. Tesla shakes all that up in much deeper way that people here wish to acknowledge. Kudos to them.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Being European and know germans very well I do not think Porsche or other german manufactures were holding back out of greed. But they just did not believe in EV. "EV is good for the planet" I am not sure electricity still has to be generated and wind mills alone will not do the job. But this is the way the public opinion goes these days and we have to accept this. I agree with you that Tesla did a good job opening this market, but I happy we will have choise when the Taycan comes to the market!


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    JR-550:

    Being European and know germans very well I do not think Porsche or other german manufactures were holding back out of greed. But they just did not believe in EV. "EV is good for the planet" I am not sure electricity still has to be generated and wind mills alone will not do the job. But this is the way the public opinion goes these days and we have to accept this. I agree with you that Tesla did a good job opening this market, but I happy we will have choise when the Taycan comes to the market!

    0-100 quick times help the environment for sure. Tesla marketing is amazing Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Topspeed:
    JR-550:

    Being European and know germans very well I do not think Porsche or other german manufactures were holding back out of greed. But they just did not believe in EV. "EV is good for the planet" I am not sure electricity still has to be generated and wind mills alone will not do the job. But this is the way the public opinion goes these days and we have to accept this. I agree with you that Tesla did a good job opening this market, but I happy we will have choise when the Taycan comes to the market!

    0-100 quick times help the environment for sure. Tesla marketing is amazing Smiley

    And I'm sure that energy consumption doing ludicrous mode is quite low as well. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:
    Topspeed:
    JR-550:

    Being European and know germans very well I do not think Porsche or other german manufactures were holding back out of greed. But they just did not believe in EV. "EV is good for the planet" I am not sure electricity still has to be generated and wind mills alone will not do the job. But this is the way the public opinion goes these days and we have to accept this. I agree with you that Tesla did a good job opening this market, but I happy we will have choise when the Taycan comes to the market!

    0-100 quick times help the environment for sure. Tesla marketing is amazing Smiley

    And I'm sure that energy consumption doing ludicrous mode is quite low as well. Smiley Smiley

    Good for the environment: https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-x-fire-california-video/


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Police in Basel have 7 cars on order . They just received the first  three . 140k CHF a piece .

    Who says, Tesla does not sell in Europe smiley

    575d63c1-e542-4233-9933-3898f94c14c0.jpeg


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Gnil:

    Police in Basel have 7 cars on order . They just received the first  three . 140k CHF a piece .

    Who says, Tesla does not sell in Europe smiley

    575d63c1-e542-4233-9933-3898f94c14c0.jpeg

    The Swiss police must have deep pockets to justify the purchase of such expensive vehicles. In the States, the local authorities would be able to acquire three Ford Intercepts for the price of one Tesla.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I can just imagine a high speed chase in the highway in Switzerland and after a while  all the Tesla cop cars one by one  running out of power because of battery drain or going into limp mode ... as the criminal cruises away from them 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    I can just imagine a high speed chase in the highway in Switzerland and after a while  all the Tesla cop cars one by one  running out of power because of battery drain or going into limp mode ... as the criminal cruises away from them 

    Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    https://www.thestar.com/autos/2017/01/21/electric-cars-are-a-short-circuit.html

    Here is something from a while ago, but pretty accurate about EVs and talked about stuff that EV fanatics won't.


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    I can just imagine a high speed chase in the highway in Switzerland and after a while  all the Tesla cop cars one by one  running out of power because of battery drain or going into limp mode ... as the criminal cruises away from them 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Smiley

    Those are city Police Smiley For the Highway there is a different Police ....

    As to the costs :  A normal Police car would of cost them 50k less . They have calculated that with the fuel + maintenance savings , costs will end up the same on the long run .  ( not sure I believe it , but that is the official statement ) 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    https://www.thestar.com/autos/2017/01/21/electric-cars-are-a-short-circuit.html

    Here is something from a while ago, but pretty accurate about EVs and talked about stuff that EV fanatics won't.

    you read this article and you want to jump out of your balcony...Smiley

    because his analysis says we don't start by any way because it is not enough, not designed for it and not sustainable...right Smiley he is as well convinced that fuel cell is on hold or not the priority...wrong again.

    any improvement in our fossil consumption, energy production and use will be a plus on this planet. we are getting more and more and it is urgent to change our current strategy.

    Hydrogen fuel cell is only one aspect, another one which is even more efficient and currently under development is the natural gas fuel cell...many technologies will be used in the coming 10 years, teams are working on them right now Smiley

    the only unknown parameter is how customer (population) will welcome them. Politics will just be there to push into this direction either by bonus to renew cars or with law to limit access to cities.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    https://www.thestar.com/autos/2017/01/21/electric-cars-are-a-short-circuit.html

    Here is something from a while ago, but pretty accurate about EVs and talked about stuff that EV fanatics won't.

    It's fascinating how someone can refer this as accurate.

    Making a case how dirty electricity is in the first part and how problematic it will be to create all the electricity to juice up these EVs and then end up pushing for Hydrogen? A hydrogen car require about THREE times as much electricity compared with an EV. And according to the author of the article that Electricity to power all the hydrogen cars are of course non issues  SmileySmiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    That article shows a rather pessimistic and anti technological view, which of course does not mean that everything in ELV land is rosy.  But I think it's unfair to compare ICE technology, that evolved over 200 years, with something rather new. Remember that back in the days when ICE cars were invented, you had to buy the gas at a pharmacy; well, RC certainly would like that indecision


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    schmoell:

    That article shows a rather pessimistic and anti technological view, which of course does not mean that everything in ELV land is rosy.  But I think it's unfair to compare ICE technology, that evolved over 200 years, with something rather new. Remember that back in the days when ICE cars were invented, you had to buy the gas at a pharmacy; well, RC certainly would like that indecision

    No, I wouldn't like that because the gain margin is ridiculously low. Smiley Smiley

    I would love selling marihuana similar to the pot shops in the US, big money lies in the stupidity of others (with the exception of those needing it for real medical reasons) but unfortunately, in Germany, things go into a different direction when it comes to medical marihuana. Smiley

    Back to topic: Fuel cell operated cars are more interesting than EVs because they are easier to fuel up. I still believe that in the end, EVs will make it since this tech is much simpler and once there is going to be a battery development "breakthrough", things will get even easier but until the general population will be "electrified" Smiley, it will take at least another decade or so and it requires serious incentives to do that. Not that simple because they cannot really easily raise fuel prices by raising taxes (look at what happened in France) and electricity isn't that cheap either in most parts of the world.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Back to topic: Fuel cell operated cars are more interesting than EVs because they are easier to fuel up.

    ... and not carrying a 600kg battery is smart too.  Here is an article [1] about the challenges of electric cars, that I found interesting, because it tries to do some math based on current technology and some (plausible) assumptions. But we all know how fast tech can change and how wrong predictions can be.

    [1] https://www.quora.com/Is-there-enough-lithium-or-an-equivalent-element-in-the-world-to-build-batteries-for-the-tens-of-millions-...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Ev is only a couple of breakthroughs away from killing any other solutions.

    Same for solar panels, at some point it will be cheaper than buy electric at your utility. I am seriously looking at a Tesla roof since mine needs to be replaced soon. Financial it is not quite there yet unless you count for some upside value in reselling your house. But does it even matter? Because it is so freaking cool.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Ev is only a couple of breakthroughs away from killing any other solutions.

    Same for solar panels, at some point it will be cheaper than buy electric at your utility. I am seriously looking at a Tesla roof since mine needs to be replaced soon. Financial it is not quite there yet unless you count for some upside value in reselling your house. But does it even matter? Because it is so freaking cool.

    Our kids will probably produce their own electricity in their own house, no need for electric companies anymore for normal households. I think. In 30 years, efficiency will be amazing, so will be battery technology for that purpose.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    lukestern:
     

     

    This graph didn't even start off with the correct information.Smiley

    Right now on Planet Earth, there is only a select few places that are on renewable energy supply. 80+% of the population is NOT on renewable supply.

    Where I live, it is, we completely rely on hydro dams. Some place have renewable ones as a supplement to the fossil fuel burning power plants, be it wind mills, hydro dams or solar. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    More Audi e-tron reviews.  One from Electrek, ground zero for the Tesla fan club: https://electrek.co/2018/12/07/audi-e-tron-electric-suv-first-drive-review/ and the other from another EV site: https://insideevs.com/audi-e-tron-electric-suv-first-drive-review/

    Once again, normalcy was the target for Audi, not out-accelerating Tesla.  Both authors stress that Audi has built a premium SUV that happens to be electric.   Audi, to achieve that goal, was willing to accept the slight trade-off in a direct performance specification against Tesla.   Porsche will further distinguish itself with a performance luxury car that too happens to be electric.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    I can just imagine a high speed chase in the highway in Switzerland and after a while  all the Tesla cop cars one by one  running out of power because of battery drain or going into limp mode ... as the criminal cruises away from them 

    Yikes, a high-speed chase would be very expensive in CH!  The speeding ticket along would be crippling.  At least they probably won't shoot you when you're finally caught like here Smiley


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    So basically for $75k base you get a glorified Q5 that can do 0-62 in 5.7s with 200 miles of range... it just happens to have an electric engine... Zero interest here, Tesla can rest on their prototype for that one. In the USA, maybe at least in rich suburbia, people will not get over the fact that it is a Q5. Teslas are cool with a fresh minimal interior and more efficient (form follows function). IMHO try to make this exactly like a regular Q5 but EV is a huge mistake. Tesla redesigned everything around the EV tech and giant screen, not the other way around. A cool transportation appliance. This Etron is a compromise of everything and in the end brings not much to the table for a high price. A $55k Model Y will run circles around this crossover.

    Oh and btw, this just fuels further the vapor ware price of the Taycan... This EV Q5 is $75k base vs Q5 base of $40k. Panamera base is basically $85k (Panamera is bigger than Taycan but Panamera has a small trunk and is small inside so it is a direct competitor of the Taycan).


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    So basically for $75k base you get a glorified Q5 that can do 0-62 in 5.7s with 200 miles of range... it just happens to have an electric engine... Zero interest here, Tesla can rest on their prototype for that one. In the USA, maybe at least in rich suburbia, people will not get over the fact that it is a Q5. Teslas are cool with a fresh minimal interior and more efficient (form follows function). IMHO try to make this exactly like a regular Q5 but EV is a huge mistake. Tesla redesigned everything around the EV tech and giant screen, not the other way around. A cool transportation appliance. This Etron is a compromise of everything and in the end brings not much to the table for a high price. A $55k Model Y will run circles around this crossover.

    Oh and btw, this just fuels further the vapor ware price of the Taycan... This EV Q5 is $75k base vs Q5 base of $40k. Panamera base is basically $85k (Panamera is bigger than Taycan but Panamera has a small trunk and is small inside so it is a direct competitor of the Taycan).

    That is funny cause I would buy the E-tron precisely because it is an Audi Q5 with a proper interior and German build quality with a proper SUV appearance, and not a cheap built american made Tesla "minivan" Smiley, extreme straight line 0-60 numbers on such a boat is not going to be a deciding factor in comparison to all that.

    The only thing I see on the E-Tron is that 200 miles range is not enough IMO, should be at least 300 miles or more.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:
     

    That is funny cause I would buy the E-tron precisely because it is an Audi Q5 with a proper interior and German build quality with a proper SUV appearance, and not a cheap built american made Tesla "minivan" Smiley, extreme straight line 0-60 numbers on such a boat is not going to be a deciding factor in comparison to all that.

    The only thing I see on the E-Tron is that 200 miles range is not enough IMO, should be at least 300 miles or more.

    One notable strength Audi has is their existing customer base. When you combine Audi's existing customer base and global dealer network, Audi seem to be rather well positioned to maintain their strong market position

    For example, in FY2017 Audi sold over 1.8 million vehicles worldwide...

    1544215111596image.jpeg

    1544215123018image.jpeg

    ...so how are Audi getting on with the E-tron deposit reservations in Norway?

    1544215564789image.jpeg

     

    Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    LOL! Reservation for an E-tron is 20.000 NOK and for a Tesla 3 it's 10.000 NOK in Norway. Since when was reservation figures shown in money instead of numbers? Someone obviously wanted to make it look more rosy for Audi and put Tesla in second place 

    And btw, a lot of E-tron reservation holders are jumping ship in Norway. WLTP/range is a big disappointment and the options are very expensive...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    lukestern:
     

     

    This graph didn't even start off with the correct information.Smiley

    Right now on Planet Earth, there is only a select few places that are on renewable energy supply. 80+% of the population is NOT on renewable supply.

    Where I live, it is, we completely rely on hydro dams. Some place have renewable ones as a supplement to the fossil fuel burning power plants, be it wind mills, hydro dams or solar. 

    Did you read my post? My point was that a Hydrogen driven car require three times as much electricity to propell forward compared with a BEV. So the discussion about where the electricity come from and how it is generated is a completely different discussion. The author in the article you linked were initially making big claims about how dirty an EV is and concluded that Hydrogen is the future. So, he bashes BEV and then argue that Hydrogen cars are the future, that consume three times as much of the same electricity...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    lukestern:

    LOL! Reservation for an E-tron is 20.000 NOK and for a Tesla 3 it's 10.000 NOK in Norway. Since when was reservation calculated in money instead of numbers? 

    And btw, E-tron reservation holders are jumping ship in Norway like crazy. WLTP/range is a big disappointment and the options are very expensive.

    Interesting to note that while Tesla is less keen on discussing the latest customer reservations by number, they are required to disclose the $905 million of customer deposits (in money) held as unsecured current liabilities on balance sheet...

    1544225055776image.jpeg

    ...wonder how that balance sheet will look in 2019? Smiley

    1544225832327image.jpeg

    ...are you still confident that Tesla is growing? Smiley


     
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