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    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    the only really strange thing is the quarter mile in 11.6 while 124 MPH takes 12.2....the car has to be going near this speed to cover the quarter that fast....



    You're absolutely right! It doesn't add up. The smoke still hasn't cleared.



    With or without overboost on?

    or maybe 0-200kph in 12.2 is in the snow?

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    When was the last time they got something this wrong??

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    Aisxos said:
    sorry but I dont believe CF...



    Logic dictates that you should. Thankfully

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    I fear the numbers are right even though I wish they were wrong.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    CF said:
    I was so puzzled about this Tiptronic so I made some calls and got this Info.

    Posted times ARE in fact reversed!

    Once again,THE POSTED ACCELERATION TIMES has mistakingly been reversed when published on the Porsche website and in the info sent out to prospective customers!

    Order has been restored

    It should read 0-100: 3,7 manual and 3.9 Tip
    0-200: 12.2 manual and 12.8 Tip!!!



    Are you being serious?

    I mean, yes it completely makes sense, I was completely puzzled how can a 5-speed torque converter be faster than a manual, it can't be unless the Tip had an aditional feature that they weren't feeding to the manual for some reason ... but its hard to believe that could make such a mistake. Are you joking or not?

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Although Porsche Stuttgart are in bed perhaps someone can call PCNA??

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    with partial information, we could have never known (only speculated) and with the statistics that were released, I could only imagine the worst and most sinister plots a la Porsche PR. Fortunately logic seems to win in the end...so this is truly a relief to hear

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Hmmm,

    although it's kind of funny to read about all the substantial ego problems that might occur if you are outperformed by "an old lady ... or even by Nick ... in a tiptronic tt"

    the question is ... how low is your involvement in Porsche and automotive excellence as such ... to make such a mistake as a Porsche employee

    Can't believe it

    Cheers

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    If somebody could please explain me, why the heck, everybody give up for dead the 997 Turbo, without any real reason, and any real independent test !?!?!?

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    ^^ pathos on the boards, paczo, pathos.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    paczo911 said:
    If somebody could please explain me, why the heck, everybody give up for dead the 997 Turbo, without any real reason, and any real independent test !?!?!?



    Well, I didn't and I really gave it a hard beating.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Sorry for my ignorance... I didn't read the whole thread but...

    Maybe some people are disappointed because they expected more of a surprise but there wasn't really much of a surprise in the press/photo release because information was leaked out over such a long period of time.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Please read the thread,
    people are dissapointed because the manual performance is not great, and that the tip performance is what the manual should be. So they are confused.

    IMHO there are only two ways gets out of this PR mess:
    1) the tiptronic S in the turbo is much closer to what the PDK is with fast up/down shifting, much improved on the 997's tip, making the PDK irrelevant except on the GT3.

    2) Porsche release the PDK version NOW, being faster than the tip and manual.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    dedam said:
    No way I would order a 997 turbo with tiptronic.
    Its a sport car no limosine.
    Tiptronic faster then stickshift ------bad move Porsche-----



    I dare say it's not a sports car. No way a sports car weighs 3,400 lbs.

    David

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    UAaa

    what a morning...

    i have 200 msg to read..the order guide,the Meteor metallic..the Manual faster than the tiptronic...i can die..

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Im going to give RC and the rest of the semi skeptics some of RCs own "rennteam tough love advise" : JUST WAIT TILL WE GET SOME INDEPENDANT TESTING lol. is it worth losing sleep over...nothing? Theres just no honest info, hell for all you know, porsche could say that the manual is slower only to clear out the last batch of tiptronics before the DSG box arrives;)

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    RC, Just wait until your drive to the dealer to pick up the car

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The 997 Turbo is here and everybody is happy. Everybody? Not really I'm afraid. Yes, I ordered one. Yes, I will get one. Yes, I just can't wait to get mine. Am I happy? No, I'm not. I'm looking forward to get my Turbo but that special feeling I always had about getting a new car is somehow missing. Why? I'm not sure. Maybe because there is something about the new 997 Turbo I don't feel right about. Is it the looks? Well, it looks like the old one on steroids, so this really doesn't bother me. On the contrary, this slightly more aggressive looks pretty cool.
    Is it the technical data of the new Turbo? Well, judging by the specs, this car is pretty impressive. VTG charger technology, electronically controlled AWD, Overboost function, huge PCCB brake system, this car sounds like a hightech playground.
    Is it the price tag which bothers me? Well, of course it bothers me but it always bothered me because it is a lot of money, so this isn't it.
    So what is it? Why ain't I happy about getting such a fantastic car?

    So I was thinking and thinking and thinking and I came to a very simple conclusion: I don't feel the happiness of getting this car because it isn't something special.
    Now wait, would everybody say, how can this monster not be something special. 480 HP, 310 kph top speed, 3.7 seconds from 0-100 kph in 3.7, why would someone be crazy not to be happy to get such a car? Well, I don't expect everybody to understand, I agree. But you have to look at it from my point of view. I can't afford buying such a car every year. Over the last years, I spent too much money for cars. Now, I have to get a car I'm at least 4-5 years happy with. I just have the feeling that the 997 Turbo isn't the right car for this purpose.

    Maybe I'm spoiled, maybe I want more and more and I'm not satisifed anymore. But this ain't the reason I'm not really happy. When I got my 997 Carrera S back in August 2004, I was very happy and I felt that special feeling.
    Now, something is wrong.

    Maybe Porsche didn't really understand what people like me expected to see from them, maybe Porsche underestimated the desire of having the ultimate sportscar without having to wait until a model cycle is almost over, maybe Porsche was looking too much at new customers and saving cost than looking at the competition.

    Yes, the 997 Turbo is the hell of a car and it is very fast. It can't beat the F430 regarding the top speed but this really isn't a problem because it is extremely fast in the lower speed range. But still, with manual, performance of the 997 Turbo and F430 are at par, a little disappointment already. And what's with that Tiptronic is faster than manual stuff? I never really wanted Tiptronic in my sportscar and now I'm forced to get it because it is the only way I get the best performance? Is it really a clever thing to do to offer a car which is faster with an auto tranny than with manual, meaning that any housewife, 16-year old school kid, granny, etc. in a 997 Turbo could outrun me from a stoplight, no matter how hard I'm trying to shift? They just press the throttle and hallelujah, off they go? I'm really having a hard time to understand this.
    Or does Porsche think they can fool customers by making them think that they get the rumored PDK, just named Tiptronic? And if we're talking about the PDK: what took them so long to offer a sequential shifting system for the Turbo? Ferrari has it, BMW has it...are these companies technologically more advanced than Porsche? Or does Porsche want to sell something "special", too cook their own soup like we say here? And if so, how much is it going to cost us in the end? Double the Tiptronic price tag?

    Yes, I'll go for Tiptronic. And here's the catch: it may not be possible to get PCCB with Tiptronic because among the first launch cars, only the manuals have PCCB. Or was it only the cars with Tiptronic? I don't remember anymore, I'm confused. And what about this overboost? I like the idea of the overboost but why only in the middle rev range? And does the horse power go up too in that range, nobody can tell me that? And what about those 10 seconds? When I release the throttle, do I get immediately another 10 seconds or not? And what about the performance figures we're reading about? Are they with or without the overboost function? Lots of questions I have and looking at my position as Rennteam Editor, a true Porsche enthusiast and somebody who really has his sources for information, I shouldn't have these questions. But I still have them and the reason why I have them is simple: all this stuff is confusing, half-bread and somehow not understandable.

    Why doesn't Porsche explain in their press release why the Tiptronic is faster? Why don't they mention the 0-300 kph time with Tiptronic? Is it faster than manual too? Or is the manual faster at speeds over 200 kph?

    What about shifting times? Have shifting times been improved? What about the so much talked about better throttle response? Do we get a better throttle response with Tiptronic too?

    And exactly here's my problem: the new 997 Turbo confuses me and the more I think about it, I have to come to one conclusion: this car doesn't make sense to me. No way.
    To be honest: if I would have the money and if I wouldn't care about my sourroundings like neighborhood, customers, etc., I would probably go to the next Lamborghini dealer and get myself a Gallardo SE and be happy for the next few years. And funny enought, the 997 GT3 sounds more "logical" to me than the 997 Turbo, it attracts me more but I know that this is not the right car for me since I don't do much track racing.

    I don't know who is responsible for Porsche marketing and I don't know who was responsible for the 997 Turbo project, especially when it came to specify the technical specs.
    But one thing is for sure: nobody asked former Turbo customers what they think about it. And if they asked, they asked the wrong persons. Making a Tiptronic faster than manual, what the heck were they thinking? Don't get me wrong, there is nothing bad about Tiptronic. But whoever tried to use it in the manual mode, knows that not only the shifting reaction times suck, those stupid buttons on the steering wheel suck too. I don't know how many times I accidentally touched one of those buttons in my Cayenne Turbo or in my wife's Tiptronic equipped Boxster S. Why not shifting paddles? Are all the other manufacturers doing it wrong???

    I know that it is too late now to complaint about the new 997 Turbo. The specs are set and the cars are already in production. And I also bet that the upcoming powerkit won't be retrofittable, so just that I feel bad again when it shows up. No problem, I can take care of that of my own. But it still doesn't feel right that Porsche didn't use their chance to set all open bills straight by putting a whopping 520 HP in the Turbo and making it a real rocket.
    Of course we will see 510 or 520 HP in the Turbo, no doubt about it. And of course the 997 Turbo will kick the competition's a.. even with 480 HP, especially on the track. But how many of us are really track racing their car? How many of us are really driving this car at the limit? Isn't the 911 Turbo supposed to be Porsche's "top" model, with some variations at the end of the production cycle in the form of a "S" and GT2?

    Yes, I'm still getting the new 997 Turbo. Yes, I still want it and yes, I'm pretty sure it will be a lot of fun to drive. But no, this time I'm not happy to get it, it just feels like another car. Porsche starts to loose it's attraction and as soon as they realize that, it may be too late. Or maybe it is me and not them, maybe I'm getting old, maybe I don't like Porsche cars anymore.

    Or maybe I just got older, wiser and I started to understand the "game" Porsche is playing. And I can't say I like it. This comes from a customer, who bought several Porsche cars over the last few years. I don't want to offend anybody, I just wanted to express my personal feelings.

    And to end this long post: do you guys actually know what really bothers me: it bothers me that Porsche could have done better...MUCH better. Why didn't they? Marketing strategy, cost...whatever...I don't care. I don't feel good about it and this is all I care about. Amen.




    RC, I see where you are comíng from and I share most of the feelings and thoughts. The car is good very good - even by Porsche standards - but is this enough to satisfy some customers like us? the looks are worse than those of the 996tt IMO and also than the new gt3. the car is faster with auto than manual; the car will cost 150 euro with some extras here in germany. this car is made primarily to milk the clients, full stop.

    maybe after all the new gt3 will be an alternative to sporty 996tt drivers willing to change their cars. The fact that it has PASM might allow for a relatively comfortable setting of the suspensions in non track mode. Yes, it will be louder than a tt, but I guess a Gallardo would be louder than a tt as well. And I think the tt will not come with PDK because of this superefficient tiptronic, it doesnt make sense for Porsche to offer three different trannies on the same model. US loves automatic, they couldnt care less how it works or it's named as long as it's quick (I'm not talking bout sofisticated rennteam users here!)
    So PDK might be offered for the gt3 only, which would make sense as the race PDK clutch I happened to hold in my hands as a prototype (and which was for Porsche apparently ), could only handle up to 600 NM. So probably it will be introduced with the RS and then subsequently made available to all gt3s.

    Bottom line: the new gt3 would on the one hand have the raw and sporty character some of us like (better power to weight ratio than the 996tt) coupled with the option of a softer PASM setting, Satnav and PDK (=automatic)!!

    Real track freaks will go for the (higher margin) RS anyway... so Porsche gets it right again..

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    RC i'm agree with you!!!

    Few days ago I have take a white GALLARDO SE and i'am very happy......

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Dear RC, I read every day the forum, but the first time I write, just to say: I agree with you 100%.

    I'm the number 3 in 997TT waiting list of my town, but I REALLY don't know what I'll do: Tip, manual, or ... waiting ?. I really don't understand what Porsche is doing, I'm sure they underestimated the desire of having the ultimate sportscar as you wrote.

    Maybe I'll decide for a Gallardo SE, as magu did ...

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    CF said:
    So a 6% increase in power (510 HP) and a manual gearbox that's faster than a Tiptronic would give the car a soul.

    If the Tiptronic yields such improvements in acceleration I'm sure the downshifting qualities are equally impressive.

    To me it seems that many of you think the car lost it's soul the moment you knew that the car was faster with Tip.



    I couldn't have said it better.
    Bravo.

     
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