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    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:


    Strange advice indeed - that's the exact opposite of all the advice I have ever heard. Short journeys mean that the engine never reaches it's optimum operating temperature. Maybe our resident techie Fritz can comment on this one.



    Nah nah nah..., please think this thru carefully.

    Reaching operating temp means churning up the oil, getting every chunk of metal nice and hot and driving out all the moisture in the oil. How many miles of driving does it take to do this? 20, 30, 40?

    If you think the expansion contraction and "seasoning" of crankcase should be factor in break in then:

    50 forty mile trips would be bad (2000 miles total).

    4 five hundred mile trips would be bad (2000 miles total).

    20 one hundred mile trips seem to make the most sense (2000 miles total)

    Trip numbers and mileage per trip are approximate but principle remains intact.



    Just something to think about, it has validity, but hard to know what the Porsche Engine Engineers would think about this.

    Again, it can't hurt to plan something like the twenty 100 mile trips for your breakin project.

    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    Me honestly thinks you can try ANY of those scenarios, and break-down all of the engines after 2,000 miles, and go NUTTY with your micrometer set over every moving part, and you're not likely to find a damn bit of MEASURABLE difference beyond the factory tolerance variances that existed between the engines when they were built...

    I mean, there's a point where this is really rather crazy...

    Nowadays, in modern car manufacturing parlance, manufacturers take enough measures and design-in enough measures to give them reasonable assurance that EVERY engine that rolls out the door will do just dandy, regardless of what bozo, nut-job, or lame-brain buys it... They can't afford the consequences of their motors being touchier than that, because these days, in modern times, very FEW people are mechanically knowledgable, inclined, or even conscious... It's probably one-in-ten who even READ the damn "recommendation" anyhow, so they've gotta hedge their bets... They can't count on John Q. Customer for much of anything beyond getting the gas into the right hole... And on a 911, I'm sure there's the occassional customer who has to cell-phone the dealership from the rear of their car to solve THAT mystery!!

    We're over-analyzing an engine that is practically as stout and durable as a Cummins Diesel... Yes, smart and reasonable care can't do anything but "good" in the first moments of your car's life, however the manufacturer may spell-out the break-in (most don't, most manufacturers these days, in-print, say the equivalent of "don't worry about it", there is no procedure or suggestion, but Porsche chooses to, which I'm sure is for a reason, however serious it may be, whatever...), but to dissect this down to the nth degree is, in my opinion, an exercise in severe boredome...

    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:


    I mean, there's a point where this is really rather crazy...





    You are correct sir.

    Revised recommendations worth us$.02:

    1. Avoid two or three trips adding up to 2000 miles. Avoid 100 trips adding up to 2000 miles.

    2. Follow owner's manual break-in "recommendations" or don't.

    3. Change engine speed frequently (shift much more than necessary) during the first 200 miles. Piston rings are supposedly seating at that critical time.

    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    Thanks for all the great input guys. I now know where each opinion is coming from.

    Due to my profession, I understand that safety buffers and that extra margin needed for "covering your ass" is a must when Porsche write their manuals.

    The S should be out on saturday, pics will follow

    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Nowadays, in modern car manufacturing parlance, manufacturers take enough measures and design-in enough measures to give them reasonable assurance that EVERY engine that rolls out the door will do just dandy, regardless of what bozo, nut-job, or lame-brain buys it...



    Me thinks you over simplify somewhat. There are not many car manufactureres that make a car with a 100+ mph gear. Your point on present day manufacturing tolerances is taken. However, the level of engineering built into the car demands a little more circumspection, IMHO. While it is not as 'hand built' as in the past, it still harkens more toward that than to 'bullet proof' mass production (it is not really a toaster, you know ).

    I do not know about others but what attracted me to Porsche (esp the 911 line) is partly the fact that you do need to be cognizant of its idiosyncrasies which include the archaic "break in" process. For me it brought me back to the first motorcycle my parents pruchased for me. There was responsiblity and therefore greater involvement with the metal. So i understand questions on break in, as it is part of the bonding we do with the machine. I also think that proper break in will reward the owner; if not "actually" or "emperically" from an engineering perspective (altho am I not sure that that would not be the case), than from the perspective of greater personal enjoyment and invovlment as part of the buying/owning process. I may be alone - but do not think so. Theres my .02 cents.

    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    It doesn't matter what you do. The things are already broken in. It's more for you. If you're a Porsche driver from way back just disregard any special restrictions.

    Dan

    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    I use a crowbar on the glass and a padded blanket (to protect the paint).....

    Sorry, for the OT, I just couldn't resist....

    The advice you received from other board members about warming up the engine and oil operating temperature is what I followed.

    Enjoy your new P-car, I'm looking forward to seeing your photos.

    Drive Safe (and with a smile)

    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    My technique with my cars has been long haul roadtrips completing the 2K break-in, in 3 days driving approx 700 mi / day.
    The result has been little to no oil consumption in subsequent miles.
    Currently the GT3 has passed 8500 mi and only two bars down on oil.

    Works for me!

    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    @Trundle_GT3: BTW did you find an answer to the issue about not being able to fill the petrol tank completely full in the GT3?

    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    Yeah, whadaya do if you find the car you want to buy 4 states over. Do you have it transported to you to avoid the drive-back? Do you take a flippin week to drive back, stopping at premeditated intervals? Just to obsess over perceived break-in conformity?

    My middle-school history teacher used to sit at his desk while we took tests and organize his rubber bands into perfect rows in his desk drawer, while the corner of his mouth twitched and flinched... I don't think I need to draw the lines on this analogy..

    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Yeah, whadaya do if you find the car you want to buy 4 states over. Do you have it transported to you to avoid the drive-back? Do you take a flippin week to drive back, stopping at premeditated intervals? Just to obsess over perceived break-in conformity?





    That' a problem. I personally would have it trucked to nearest P-dealer. Probably break even considering possible boring interstate highway drive, gas, accomodation and most importantly: your _time_.

    Then again, I'm in the camp who thinks these cars are "disposable" since long term ownership (THE reason for a very careful breakin perhaps) of these complicated, electronic, computer dependent cars isn't likely to be plea$ent.


    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    just drive it...it will handle it.......

    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    Quote:
    Dan L said:
    It doesn't matter what you do. The things are already broken in. It's more for you. If you're a Porsche driver from way back just disregard any special restrictions.

    Dan



    Exactly. Or, rather, almost exactly.

    And, in this case, the doctor's orders, while logical, don't apply so well. That's due to the CYA issues discussed above.

    Over dinner, I talked with the most qualified engineer at PAG on this subject. Thanks to modern metallurgy and oils, there is no longer any mechanical reason to follow break-in guidelines from an engine standpoint. Think about it: engines are checked for power and torque right after assembly...

    The real reason for break-in guidelines, and why I still recommend following them in spirit if not detail, is two-fold:

    -You are learning a new (very high-performance) car.
    -It is a new car, and thus a very complex mass-produced instrument. Thus, it is possible that there could be a fault in other systems. Better to discover that fault at 3/10ths to 4/10ths than 8/10ths to 10/10ths.

    But the best advice I've heard if you're gonna keep your new car:

    1. Change the oil and filter at 400-600 miles
    2. Go easy on the whole car until you "learn" it, a process that will vary from person to person depending on a lot of things. (actually a good idea whether you are going to keep it or not)

    So many people who worry about break-in inflict far more damage to cars every day for years. The big thing is: Make sure the *oil* (not the coolant!!!) is up to operating temperature (or at least near it) before exceeding 4000~rpm or using heavy throttle.

    Perhaps this subject (and a few others....) would make a good sticky, or maybe an easily found forum, or...?

    Cheers,

    pete

    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    Quote:
    excmag said:
    Perhaps this subject (and a few others....) would make a good sticky .....



    Great idea, but I somehow think it still wouldn't stop somebody regurgitating it every 4 to 6 weeks or so.

    Don't drive it at all

    Just leave it there on display on your shiny checkered flag garage floor tiles and you will never have to worry about running in the car, nor snow and salt, or sun fading the interior, or oil consumption or even which tires to buy. It's SO easy!

    Can we move on to something new???

    Re: Don't drive it at all

    I just bought a new Toro string trimmer, and was wondering what mm thickness grass I should limit myself to in the first 20 minutes of operation, and whether I should actually use it to whack weeds, or just walk about my neighborhood for a few hours alternating RPM's at specified intervals... Suggestions???

    Re: Don't drive it at all

    Quote:
    Le Chef said:


    Can we move on to something new???



    No. Not until a panel of Porsche Engineers mutiny and go on record telling us car guys once and for all what the facts are.

    Because it's a private company, with marketing concerns predominating, the __engineering__ facts about breakin will never be "official."

    What you can say is there's the official breakin procedure and a lot of discussion, much of it based on industry expert opinion and personal experience of owners that are at odds.

    There's also the lore comprised of recurrent inside information reported from engineers at Porsche and dealers who attend technical orientations in Germany: it all seems consistent and happens to be somewhat at odds with official "Break in Hints."

    As long as you take it easy at first and don't insanely beat the crap out of the car, I'm starting to think you can do what you want. By the time differences in engine wear are evident only a few of us (2%?) will still own the cars.

    What's also funny? I haven't heard ONE story floating around at my dealership, or on these boards, which tells of premature engine ruination due to the implementation of non-official breakin procedures.

    Part of the fun of ownership, ain't it?

    Re: Don't drive it at all

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    I just bought a new Toro string trimmer, and was wondering what mm thickness grass I should limit myself to in the first 20 minutes of operation, and whether I should actually use it to whack weeds, or just walk about my neighborhood for a few hours alternating RPM's at specified intervals... Suggestions???



    ROFL

    Re: Don't drive it at all

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    I just bought a new Toro string trimmer, and was wondering what mm thickness grass I should limit myself to in the first 20 minutes of operation, and whether I should actually use it to whack weeds, or just walk about my neighborhood for a few hours alternating RPM's at specified intervals... Suggestions???



    You shouldn't smoke grass (of any sort) whilst operating machinery...

    Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

    Agree with all MMD's points. He wonders aloud why Porsche do specify a break in period and limits etc, even if the engine is more like something from a tractor than a HP sports car...

    I can only think they do this because this car is more likely to be revved quite a bit harder than a Lexus and even if the engine takes it fine, the oil seals might not... I imagine if you run the car a bit more moderately the seals might bed in better from the varying but lower oil pressures (but I'm not an auto-mechanic... so feel free to flame etc if I'm wrong).

    I would recommend just not taking the car to the red-line all the time from the off for that reason, if nothing else.

    BTW my RMS was changed in my 20k service (under warranty - phew!) - anyone else had that?

    SoS.

     
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