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    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    MKSGR:

    You think the 961 would be more Grand Tourism style then?

    Yes. I don't think it will target the 911 GT2/GT3/RS models. Makes no sense in my opinion. The 961 is an addition to the current model lineup, not a replacement for maybe the most successful track-oriented cars ever built.


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    MKSGR:
    Spyderidol:
    MKSGR:
    Spyderidol:
     

    No- Porsche Motorsport is a business. A very successful business. The GT product t brings in a lot of money into the company. Spare parts is also a money making machine.

    It is important not to confuse the GT Motorsport products with for instance, the LMP1 project. 

     

     

    So you think they can increase profitability by replacing the existing GT business by a new category?

    No - The LMP1 project is essentially a technological showcase and marketing exercise. The cars will be raced by Porsche but the idea is to show what petrol/hybrid can do.

    The GT class is designed to sell cars to Motorsport customers. Porsche will be participating in both classes.

    That's what I meant: the mid-engine segment will not create profits Smiley Somehow new for Porsche...

    I see the confusion: The 961 will be in the GT class (if they decide to race it). It would be a new mid-engine platform for Porsche to compete against the 458.

    The LMP1 car has absolutely nothing to do with raod going cars. It is a prototype . A real racing car.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Where would the 911 GTs compete in motorsport? For sure the ME platform and the V8 large capacity engine will be more competitive against 458, SLS, R8 and MP4 than any 911 based racer.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    The 911 would perhaps be the GT product for Grand-Am/ALMS (depending on the future rules). I also see it continuing to be the GT product for the mono-marque trophies (Carrera Cup, Super Cup, etc). Lastly i see it continuing to race in the VLN (SP7)

    The 961 would be the GTE product for the WEC/ Upper class of VLN/ GT Open


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    reginos:

    Where would the 911 GTs compete in motorsport? For sure the ME platform and the V8 large capacity engine will be more competitive against 458, SLS, R8 and MP4 than any 911 based racer.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Are you sure? The recent past illustrates how successful the 911 concept is - also compared to the mid engine cars. The 911 is as fast or faster still (even the old 997 version!). And in the future 6 cylinder engines will benefit while larger 8/10/12 cylinders are likely to suffer (environmental requirements, more efficient) Smiley


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Markus - The 911 is completely outclassed in the WEC and in the last two years in the ALMS. The only reason that it was somewhat competitive was because it was given performance breaks, 


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Moreover the 911 has failed to win any of the 12 and 24 hour races around the world this season, for which the car was renowned previously, except Daytona 2012.

    I expect that the 991 based racer will be an improvement but a ME platform will bring Porsche closer to the competition. Even the front engined competitors from Mercedes and BMW are practically ME.

    However, it will be a huge mistake to kill the 911 from serious racing in spite of a ME car. How Porsche will handle this, I don't know. One-make races are not as prestigious.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    As I wrote before...

    bluelines:
    ...Porsche has to build it because the 911 platform cannot evolve much further without changing iconic features (e.g. the capacity of the flat six cannot be increased far beyond 4.0l and adding two cylinders is probably no go). Hence they niche the 911 and invent a new top-line model where they have free hands to build what needs to be built.

    ...which fits the motorsport activities well.


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    reginos:

    Moreover the 911 has failed to win any of the 12 and 24 hour races around the world this season, for which the car was renowned previously, except Daytona 2012.

    I expect that the 991 based racer will be an improvement but a ME platform will bring Porsche closer to the competition. Even the front engined competitors from Mercedes and BMW are practically ME.

    However, it will be a huge mistake to kill the 911 from serious racing in spite of a ME car. How Porsche will handle this, I don't know. One-make races are not as prestigious.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Grand Am / ALMS fusion will , I suspect, provide a good sportscar racing market for the 911.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Spyderidol:

    Markus - The 911 is completely outclassed in the WEC and in the last two years in the ALMS. The only reason that it was somewhat competitive was because it was given performance breaks, 

    I was talking about the road cars Smiley


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    wink


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Porsche 961 - Secret new car coming soon...

    "Porsche 911 critics have been arguing for years that the range can no longer use the aged rear engine system, and all that can be done to improve it has already been done.

    While the 911 still has a solid fan base that would drive no other car, it is also true that the performance figures of the underpowered Cayman are nowadays dangerously similar to those of the 911, proving the superiority of a mid-engine architecture.

    Porsche seems to have found an elegant solution to this debate, as they will produce a new high-performance mid-engine supercar, placed above the 911. With this in place, they will have on the market something to please both the 911 lovers and haters.

    Named the 961, the new Porsche will feature V8 engines and will be aimed directly at the Ferrari 458, McLaren MP4-12 and the Lambo Gallardo. Expect it in 2013 with prices starting at £170,000."

    Porsche 961 - Secret new car coming soon - Article link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Porsche 961 to be positioned to compete with Ferrari 458 Italia, McLaren MP4-12C, Mercedes SLS AMG...

    Porsche-961_Competitive-Analysis.jpg

    ...how do you like them apples?

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    only problem is that by the time then 961 comes out, most of these other cars would be being replaced with the newer versions with even better specs, but I guess Porsche knows that better than us and will take it into account when bringing out th final specs that its up to date with the competition it will be facing then and not now.


    --


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Carlos from Spain:

    only problem is that by the time then 961 comes out, most of these other cars would be being replaced with the newer versions with even better specs, but I guess Porsche knows that better than us and will take it into account when bringing out th final specs that its up to date with the competition it will be facing then and not now.

    Carlos, there is no problem. These specs are all mistaken...taken from 918 pre serial version minus Hybrid... We even don't know how many hp 918 will have and considering that 458 stradale (final ver) will have 620hp (Claptons car has 620hp) we should expect more than 620hp ))) 


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    HP output will be related to the weight of the 961, so don't expect excessive power figures but a lower weight.

    Anyway, the power figure will have a 6 in front of it as far as I heard. Price tag is currently discussed to be in the 230-250k EUR range (for a "naked" car).

    I agree, the 961 doesn't mean that the GT2 should be cancelled. I just think that Porsche needs to be very careful with pricing for the next 991 models. Right now, the 991 is a pretty expensive car, the Carrera S can get up to 160k and more, this is way too much in my opinion. I optioned myself a 991 Carrera S to more than 170k EUR...this is insane.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    RC:

    HP output will be related to the weight of the 961, so don't expect excessive power figures but a lower weight.

    Anyway, the power figure will have a 6 in front of it as far as I heard. Price tag is currently discussed to be in the 230-250k EUR range (for a "naked" car).

    I agree, the 961 doesn't mean that the GT2 should be cancelled. I just think that Porsche needs to be very careful with pricing for the next 991 models. Right now, the 991 is a pretty expensive car, the Carrera S can get up to 160k and more, this is way too much in my opinion. I optioned myself a 991 Carrera S to more than 170k EUR...this is insane.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

    It seems that at this moment Porsche can afford to make such prices. They are the most profitable company in industry and enchancing model range they don't want to wash the brand image by making low prices. So, having a great demand on mass models (cayenne, panamera), they are able to give 911 more exclusivity. Maybe I am wrong, but to me it seems so.

    I am also 99% sure that 918 will have 6XX HP from V8.  Bu the time when 918 and 961 will arrive 570hp will be not enought to be "on the mountain"


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    RC:
    I agree, the 961 doesn't mean that the GT2 should be cancelled. I just think that Porsche needs to be very careful with pricing for the next 991 models. Right now, the 991 is a pretty expensive car, the Carrera S can get up to 160k and more, this is way too much in my opinion. I optioned myself a 991 Carrera S to more than 170k EUR...this is insane.
     


    Absolutely agree. Sure, the 991 Carrera S is a great car and if we are honest, it's more than enough for most of us, but paying as much for it as you had to do for a Turbo shortly before, is just ridiculous. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    What is the earliest this car could be officially launched into the market?


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Rossi:
    RC:
    I agree, the 961 doesn't mean that the GT2 should be cancelled. I just think that Porsche needs to be very careful with pricing for the next 991 models. Right now, the 991 is a pretty expensive car, the Carrera S can get up to 160k and more, this is way too much in my opinion. I optioned myself a 991 Carrera S to more than 170k EUR...this is insane.
     


    Absolutely agree. Sure, the 991 Carrera S is a great car and if we are honest, it's more than enough for most of us, but paying as much for it as you had to do for a Turbo shortly before, is just ridiculous. Smiley

    Yes, it is a bit much these days. Especially compared with the 981 which, if we ignore the lack of manliness Smiley, is as brilliant, massively cheaper and almost puts a 997.2 Carrera S at shame on the track Smiley


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Enmanuel:

    What is the earliest this car could be officially launched into the market?

    After they sell "every" 918??

    Maybe end 2015?


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Spyderidol:


    Markus - The 911 is completely outclassed in the WEC and in the last two years in the ALMS. The only reason that it was somewhat competitive was because it was given performance breaks, 





    Like the TV commercial where the white sprinters are given a half distance lead before the runners of color could start ...and they still lose.

    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    bluelines:

    Absolutely agree. Sure, the 991 Carrera S is a great car and if we are honest, it's more than enough for most of us, but paying as much for it as you had to do for a Turbo shortly before, is just ridiculous. Smiley

    Yes, it is a bit much these days. Especially compared with the 981 which, if we ignore the lack of manliness Smiley, is as brilliant, massively cheaper and almost puts a 997.2 Carrera S at shame on the track Smiley

    To shame? I wouldn't say that but it is the better bang for the buck if two seats are OK and you never drive on the Autobahn where even high powered SUVs could tail you. Smiley

    My last 997 Turbo was 156k EUR with all the options I desired, incl. PCCB. Now I can spec a 991 Carrera S for even more money, this just doesn't feel right. I went for my Panamera Turbo S only because I got a special lease offer, I would have never paid over 205k for it, no way, never.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    It looks like this car may be called the 919.

    http://www.autoevolution.com/news/porsche-registers-919-name-52650.html


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Spyderidol:

    It looks like this car may be called the 919.

    http://www.autoevolution.com/news/porsche-registers-919-name-52650.html


    919 is great, much better than 916. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    If it is a technical masterpiece I would call it 9X9... come to think of it the 918 should have been named 919 then... following the footsteps of the 959. I think to name a high-end mid engined sports car 961 would make sense if and when it is very sporty to tap into the racing heritage of 96X cars.

    To the marketing department these are all just numbers and Porsche has a lot of names to choose from 9XX wise.. Sill 919 feels a bit from to me right now. But interesting they registered this name


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Porsche squares up to Ferrari with new 960

    Porsche-960_Car-Magazine-thumbprint.jpg

    Mid-engined, 4wd, eight-cylinder boxer engines: Georg Kacher reveals how the new 960 slots in above 911...

    You’re looking at the FeFi, short for Ferrari fighter. It’s Porsche’s first attempt to build a mid-engined sports car aimed at the ‘junior supercar’ market, currently dominated by the Ferrari 458 and more recent McLaren MP4-12C. Those two names may be giants of the genre, but neither is likely to be thrilled at the prospect of Porsche crashing their party.
     
    Project 960 sits neatly between the forthcoming 580bhp 991 Turbo S and the 918 Spyder, complete with 583 V8-supplied bhp and 240 electric ponies.
     
    It’s the first time Porsche has dabbled in this supercar sector: previously it’s stuck with racier 911s or proper top-end exotica such as the 959 and Carrera GT. And there are further reasons why we should all start salivating. Such as its eight-cylinder boxer engine. Or its four-wheel drivetrain and seven-speed PDK twin-clutch transmission. Not to mention its 2.5sec dash from 0-60mph.
     
    It’s a brave move by Porsche, plugging a gap in its range which has let traditional supercar makers, and the likes of Bentley, make hay in the £200k-plus marketplace. Not for much longer. 
     
    THE FLAT EIGHT
     
    Porsche favours a new flat-eight engine for the 960. A development of the trademark six-cylinder boxer, the quad-turbo 3.9 is mounted low down in the spaceframe chassis and features a central take-off which connects to a seven-speed PDK ‘box. CAR understands that VW boss Ferdinand Piech is already running a stealth Cayman fitted with a 4.0-litre B8 prototype. This engine supersedes earlier plans for a 4.8 V8 or 911-related flat six.
     
    LIGHT WEIGHT
     
    Porsche’s FeFi relies on an aluminium-intensive platform supported by steel, carbon fibre, magnesium, titanium and other composite elements. To ensure light-footed handling and supercar performance, the target weight is in the area of 1400kg. Light, compact and slippery, the 960 will accelerate to 60mph in about 2.5sec.
     
    IT’S 4WD LIKE THE 959
     
    To control the flat-eight’s 650bhp, the 960 will be four-wheel drive. This adds around 80kg to the kerbweight and is necessary to cope with the instant torque from the quad turbos. Our sources predict we may see a pared-back rear-wheel-drive GT edition later. Porsche’s own mannettino will let drivers flick from mild to wild.
     
    THE OILY BITS
     
    This will be the first Porsche to be spun from the VW group’s newest box of tricks: the sports car platform called MMB (modular mid-engine architecture). It’ll go on to underpin most of the group’s new sports cars, stretching, in some shape or other, from the replacement Boxster to the next-generation Lambo V12.
     
    PRICE, AVAILABILITY
     
    See the new Porsche 960 in the metal in late 2016 with production at the Zuffenhausen parent plant slated to begin in February 2017. This is no limited-edition: estimates run at 3000 to 4000 cars a year over a full lifecycle of six years. The new flagship will most likely be priced above €250,000; that’s slap bang in Ferrari 458 and McLaren 12C territory.
     
    The junior supercar party: look who’s already here...
     
    FERRARI 458 ITALIA
    Vital stats: £179,000, 4.5 V8, 562bhp
    Trump card: Beautiful all-rounder
    Chink in armour: Ergonomics
     
    McLAREN MP4-12C
    Vital stats: £176,000, 3.8 V8, 616bhp
    Trump card: Consummate all-rounder
    Chink in armour: Too sensible!
     
    LAMBORGHINI GALLARDO
    Vital stats: £182k, 5.2 V10, 562bhp
    Trump card: Brutal emotion on tap
    Chink in armour: R8 better/cheaper
     
    PORSCHE 960
    Vital stats: £[TBD], 3.9 Flat 8, 650bhp
    Trump card: First clean-slate Porsche for ages
    Chink in armour: Is 911 just as good?
     
    Source: Car Magazine (January 2013)

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Very interesting - really hoping for a less expensive RWD version with Manual gearbox and hydraulic steering.  I knew Porsche would build a Flat-8 version of the 9A1 ever since they said it was a modular design, but I hoped we'd see it in the GT3RS.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Porsche sadly has been overpricing their new models and I am afraid this model will be no different. When I was in the Porsche showroom a month ago I had sticker shock when viewing the invoice prices for the various Porsche models being displayed.

    The Porsche brand has always situated itself between the super car pricing and high end mass produced cars. When you see a Ferrari, Lambo, Bentley, what comes to mind is expensive. A Porsche is viewed as performance value. Costly but nowhere near price wise the expensive super cars. Unfortunately, that seems to be changing for the worse. If Porsche is wise they would price their mid engine car below the cars they are hoping to compete with.


    --

     


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Porsche brand traditionally had a larger variety of prices, but hi end models had the same price with italians and sometimes even larger - gt1, dauer 962...


    --

    sportcars-history.com


     
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