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    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    cannga:
    Ferdie:

    Great video! A clutch with higher torque rating does not inherently have to demand a higher pedal effort (friction = friction coefficient x pressure) but could also be solved by a differing material.

    Thank you for the "reminder" of the equation; I wasn't even thinking about it Smiley.

    Well then, *assuming* same material, then it IS true higher rated clutch would require higher pedal effort?

    I still am having some difficulty understanding how 2 clutch discs could have more friction than one. One would think the force is only as strong as the weakest link, i.e. the weaker disc between the 2 discs. (Just wondering out loud; I am not questioning at all that the method works.)

    The sets of plates of a multiplate clutch are all splined to the same shaft, so the clutch transmits the sum of the torques that all plates can bear, not just the torque that the "weakest" one can transmit.

    Since the plates are in series the same clamping force is acting on all the plates. By increasing the number of plates you are also increasing their total effective friction area, thus increasing the clutch's capacity to transmit torque.


    --

    fritz


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    cannga:

    Well then, *assuming* same material, then it IS true higher rated clutch would require higher pedal effort?



    Can - I think I am on your "ignore" list Smiley but here goes anyway Smiley

    Whilst one would assume that it would have to be true that a higher rated (ie more clamping force) pressure plate would require more pedal effort:

    I had the uprated pressure plate with (I think) same friction disc fitted to my GT2. I was totally worried that it would make the clutch heavier and I have a skinny (genetic) and weak  (nerve damage) left leg and the standard GT2 clutch was as heavy as I could manage for a DD using a "shift into neutral" style when driving in city traffic ( a daily occurance).

    Bottom line is that the new stronger pressure plate is not noticably heavier than the stock one and the clutch actually feels "smoother" to use, I absolutely love it and can 100% recommend it to anyone Smiley


    --


    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    ^^^ The ban is lifted on a case by case basis. This one was a reasonably good post.

    Kidding aside, which pressure plate did you use? In the US market, most people use the Sachs Stage 2 for replacement. I don't know exactly what the problem is, but some have reported very poor and/or tricky clutch take-up point as a result.
    http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997-turbo-gt2/179748-help-pls-sachs-stage-2-kit-buy-one-most-stock-like.html

    My car will  need a new clutch, but I am very hesitant to do so because of these various, and varying, reports.

    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    fritz, thanks. I had to read about friction on Wikipedia! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction
    Unrelated but I was surprised to be "reminded'  the friction coefficient could be greater than one.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    The pressure plate is the one below as sold by Cargraphic:

    http://www.cargraphic.de/index.php?/s,6,7,18,3647,4854/

    If you go on the German Sachs site:

    http://www.sachs-kupplung.de/

    Click on "motormomente" on the right, it lists the torque capacity of the various clutches. Half way down is the 999764 listed as handling 890NM with organic disc - this is the one I have I believe.

    Don't forget the GT2 does not have hydraulic help so the clutch is heavier (although arguably nicer/more accurate to use) on your turbo with the hydraulic actuation you should not feel any difference at all.


    --
     


    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    I'm hearing there are some fall builds for the '10 Turbo (not S), but Porsche will not release the coupe until January. Anyone else hearing this?

    Speculate then: if the Turbo coupe shows in January, the Cab would be right behind, then the S in the spring. Would that be the end for the next 12-15 months, while a new design is in the works...or would you expect this iteration to carry for '10 and '11?


    --

    Eric

    Chief Plug Guy

    BumperPlugs.com

    2004 C4S Cabriolet


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Eric i think all new 911(991) will be out summer 2011(solar year,not MY)

    so production of 997.2 Turbo,TurboS,GT2,GT3 and GT3RS will end in 2011/2012 after the intro of the 991.Smiley

    This is what happen at end and introduction of 996/997


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Hi Eric,

    You are correct, I've ordered my 997.2 TT which will be a november production, how ever my dealer said even if it arrives in Dec.  I won't be able to pick it up till January.  Which is very annoying. I Can go look at it all i want in their garage, but that's about it. Still don't understand the reasons behind that.

     


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Here in the UK, we have a tax increase on 1 January, so there's a big push to get it before then; $5000 extra otherwise, such is the dire state of the UK economy. My finalised order has been in for 2 weeks now, will presumably be on some computer in Porsche somewhere but no word yet on a production slot.

    I'm visiting Zuffenhausen in 3 weeks, so it will be interesting to see if there are any turbos in production already. The infuriating thing is that the factory is still reported to be on short time working (closed most Fridays) and that Porsche are restricting production to prop up resale values on older cars. You wouldn't think it, judging by the likely part-exchange for my 2004 996 TT.


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    hi

    997 carreras all has the same basic transmission modifided for 3.6l an 3.8l from Aisin with Brake Fluid as Hydraulic Medium for the Clutch.

    Boxster and Cayman has an  Getrag Transmission also with Brake Fluid Hydraulic medium .

    997 turbo has an Getrag Transmission Box but builded out of 3 parts basic for the gt3 and gt2 transmission. Turbo Transmission has Pentosin Hydraulic Fluid, Like in der Sevo Steering (painted green, high corrossive). kongsberg box on the transmission boost the foot power from pedal. you have a very light clutch pedal but also tricky to drive from standing at the hill.

    GT3 has the same Box with other clutch an brake fluid as medium but transmission oil cooler. other /translation ?/ for the gt3 engine.

    Gt2 same box other clutch other translation and no kongsberg box on the transmission. i guess although brake fluid as hydraulic medium.

    pumping the clutch in the 997 tt without running engine i guess 25 times it will going hard like the GT2 one.

    cayenne s has also getrag box when manual and no helper for pressing the clutch.

    Sorry for the english

     

     

     

     


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    cannga:

    What an exciting time for the beloved Turbo! I have faith in Porsche engineers and expect the 997.2 Turbo to be "better" than 997.1 in most or all important aspects, in an evolutionary, not revolutionary way -- it has to be. Congrats to the new owners.

    Wild prediction for ring times (anyone else more experienced/knowledgeable, please join in):
    Without PDK: 7:45 - 6 seconds or so off current Turbo
    With PDK: 7:40

    ......

    I think anyone who thinks the 997.2 Turbo will be stiffer & more like GT3/GT2 with suspension tuning will be disappointed. My opinion is it is Porsche corporate philosophy, since 996 Turbo, that the Turbo will be more of a soft cruiser car, than a track car. The Turbo was selling very well as such and I don't see any change any time soon. In other words, welcome to Bilstein.
     


    Not proven with Sport Auto drive yet, but my "wild" guess from 2 months ago might have been on the money. I would think 5 seconds from PDK, 5 seconds from evolutionary change of horsepower and revolutionary change of torque vectoring & dynamic engine mount. The Turbo remains an incomparable daily driver and not one to be messed with at the track either; drive to work in the morning, track the afternoon, and Chinese Restaurant with wife and kids in the evening. Smiley

    >>>>>>
    http://www.worldcarfans.com/109101422411/2010-porsche-911-turbo-laps-nurburgring-10-seconds-faster
    The 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo has reportedly posted a laptime of 7 minutes and 39 seconds on the Nurburgring.  That time beats out the last 911 Turbo by about ten seconds.


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    2010 Porsche 911 Turbo (including PDK "puddles") as introduced by Wolfgang Durheimer, Executive Vice-President of Porsche's R&D department...

    Smiley


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    2010 Porsche 911 Turbo: official promo video...

    Smiley



    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Sportauto magazine says Porsche officials have claimed a ring time of 7:39 min.


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    In a recent test of German Autozeitung 997.2 Turbo PDK does 0-100 kph and 0-200 kph in 3,2 sec and 10,4 sec respectively.


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Rossi:

    In a recent test of German Autozeitung 997.2 Turbo PDK does 0-100 kph and 0-200 kph in 3,2 sec and 10,4 sec respectively.

     

    Also just read in on another forum. Insane results. But not impossible, considering what kind of times were doing cabs with 2 people in Estoril. AMS and Sport Auto results are always rather slow.


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    mv:
    Rossi:

    In a recent test of German Autozeitung 997.2 Turbo PDK does 0-100 kph and 0-200 kph in 3,2 sec and 10,4 sec respectively.

     

    Also just read in on another forum. Insane results. But not impossible, considering what kind of times were doing cabs with 2 people in Estoril. AMS and Sport Auto results are always rather slow.


    Or AZ test results are little bit too fast? BTW, AMS and Sport Auto measures with full tank... Not sure about AZ.Smiley


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Rossi:

    In a recent test of German Autozeitung 997.2 Turbo PDK does 0-100 kph and 0-200 kph in 3,2 sec and 10,4 sec respectively.


    You can post also AZ track times since this is comparison between997.2 Turbo PDK, R8 V10, GT-R and XKR.


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    KresoF1:
    mv:
    Rossi:

    In a recent test of German Autozeitung 997.2 Turbo PDK does 0-100 kph and 0-200 kph in 3,2 sec and 10,4 sec respectively.

     

    Also just read in on another forum. Insane results. But not impossible, considering what kind of times were doing cabs with 2 people in Estoril. AMS and Sport Auto results are always rather slow.


    Or AZ test results are little bit too fast? BTW, AMS and Sport Auto measures with full tank... Not sure about AZ.Smiley


    Yep, I think Kreso has the correct answer. Smiley

    AZ was known for very optimistic test results in the past.


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    KresoF1:
    Rossi:

    In a recent test of German Autozeitung 997.2 Turbo PDK does 0-100 kph and 0-200 kph in 3,2 sec and 10,4 sec respectively.


    You can post also AZ track times since this is comparison between997.2 Turbo PDK, R8 V10, GT-R and XKR.


    Sorry, I have the mag at home and won't be able to post times before late this evening. Perhaps another rennteamer could help? Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Rossi:
    KresoF1:
    Rossi:

    In a recent test of German Autozeitung 997.2 Turbo PDK does 0-100 kph and 0-200 kph in 3,2 sec and 10,4 sec respectively.


    You can post also AZ track times since this is comparison between997.2 Turbo PDK, R8 V10, GT-R and XKR.


    Sorry, I have the mag at home and won't be able to post times before late this evening. Perhaps another rennteamer could help? Smiley
     

    No problem. Postman was faster...
     

    Hmm... GT-R still very marginally faster on AZ test track then 997.2 Turbo PDK. Due to tires I guess since Turbo was on normal tires.


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    KresoF1:
    mv:
    Rossi:

    In a recent test of German Autozeitung 997.2 Turbo PDK does 0-100 kph and 0-200 kph in 3,2 sec and 10,4 sec respectively.

     

    Also just read in on another forum. Insane results. But not impossible, considering what kind of times were doing cabs with 2 people in Estoril. AMS and Sport Auto results are always rather slow.


    Or AZ test results are little bit too fast? BTW, AMS and Sport Auto measures with full tank... Not sure about AZ.Smiley

    AZ is usually faster than AMS, SA. But not always (for exemple, with the current E63 AMG AZ had the slowest result)

    We will have to wait for more tests of 997.2 Turbo.

    When Autozeitung tested Panamera turbo and did 0-100km/h in 3,9s and 0-200km/h in 13,5, many here said it was impossible. But recent tests (even better results) prove it doesn´t have to be impossible.

    3,2 for 0-100km/h is definitely OK. And 100-200km/h in 7,2 also may seem possible, if some cars in estoril did 7,4s.

    But I agree that 3,2 and 10,4 for 997 Turbo PDK is way too good. What would be the performance of 997.2 Turbo S or 991 Turbo then ? Smiley


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    i dunno guys, 3.2 is damn fast!! These magazines and their tests, so many factors, might as well just look at the Top Gear track times IMO.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
    _____________________________________________________________________
    1984 BMW 323i 5spd 2.3L 141 hp (105 kW) More door. Black on black (parting out) 
    1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
    1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Atzporsche:

    i dunno guys, 3.2 is damn fast!! These magazines and their tests, so many factors, might as well just look at the Top Gear track times IMO.

    Considering these results so far, american mags using rollout should get 0-60mph in about 2,7s and 1/4 mile in under 11,0s at over 125mph.


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...


    --

    http://i28.tinypic.com/166k5zo.png


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Well, I think mamy readers of this thread will be pleased to see the 997.2 turbo crowned as the winner, not least those of us with a car on order - not that the weather did the others any favours with real problems on those standing starts putting the power down.

    In this company, not only is th 997.2 turbo one of the fastest, it's also one of the lower priced cars, which makes you wonder just what the customised cars are actually doing for the money being spent.

    Can't wait...


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    2010 Porsche 911 Turbo PDK - Autocar First Drive

    (27 November 2009)

    It’s Porsche’s new £100k option, the 3.8-litre 911 Turbo, freshly arrived in Britain. And this is our chance to find out if the car that seemed so greatly improved and generally impressive hammering around Estoril last month, copes so well on a wet, cold, slippery and bumpy UK B-road.

    Porsche-911TT_Autocar-01.jpg

    You’ll have probably read what’s new about this car by now. If not, here are the edited highlights: relative to the last Turbo it’s got an all-new 3.8-litre flat six with a variable-vane turbo for each bank of cylinders.

    It’s got 493bhp (up 20bhp) and 479lb ft (up 15lb ft). It’s got Porsche’s new seven-speed PDK double-clutch gearbox as an option. And among the other revisions, it’s got some very clever active engine mounts, a revised chassis set-up with Porsche’s active ‘PASM’ damper. It’s also lighter and more rigid than the last car.

    What’s it like?

    Phenomenally quick. Porsche claims 0-62mph in 3.4sec but according to our timing gear, this car will race to 60mph in just 3.2sec. Nissan’s GT-R took a mean 3.8sec to hit 60mph when we road-tested it earlier this year. The only car we’ve ever properly road-tested that did 3.2sec to 60mph was the McLaren F1.

    It’s that incredible double-clutch gearbox that makes the difference. In Sport Plus mode it bangs through changes with unbelievable speed, one short intermediate ratio after another with almost no interruption in acceleration.

    Porsche-911TT_Autocar-02.jpg

    Very little else piles on speed as keenly as this car, up to 150mph and well beyond. And thanks to a bigger engine running less boost pressure relative to the last Turbo, throttle response is great and turbo lag next-to-absent.

    Inside the car, the driving experience is improved by the addition of a slightly smaller steering wheel, which makes the car feel more wieldy than the last, and the option of conventional gearchange paddles; pull the right-hand paddle to change up, the left one to change down.

    On the motorway, the new 911 Turbo is quite a bit more usable car than the last. Better cruising economy means you can get 25mpg, so a tank of fuel will last 300 miles. Those intelligent engine mounts even mean that there’s less engine vibration filtering into the cabin, and because they provide better body rigidity in extremist, Porsche has even been able to decrease the car’s chassis rates slightly, improving rolling refinement.

    Since Porsche’s very first all-wheel drive version, the 911 Turbo has had crushing any-weather cross country pace, but this new one’s got much better body control than any previously. It handles and steers with greater precision too.

    Porsche-911TT_Autocar-03.jpg

    The four-wheel drive system is quicker to cancel out understeer, there’s less unwanted nodding from the car’s front end, and you can be more confident of the grip you’ll find at the front wheels in wet weather.

    That said, this car is definitely not the last word in ultimately stability and dynamic perfection. It’s a Porsche 911, and that means it’s still hampered by a second-rate weight distribution that causes it to understeer in certain circumstances when other sports cars just wouldn’t. You can’t hurry this car into a corner; get on the power too soon and the inevitable happens.

    Over bumps and through dips, it sometimes takes slightly longer for the 911 Turbo to regain its composure than, say, an Audi R8 would need. Get hit by a crosswind and you’ll be diverted much more than you would in something front or mid-engined. These are the idiosyncrasies that make 911s beguiling to some and annoying to others.

    Should I buy one?

    If you’re a 911 fan and you’re looking for a fast car to use all year round, absolutely. There has never been better Porsche Turbo than this, and owning one – making the most of that incredible performance, day in and day out - would make you feel very fortunate indeed.

    It’s as well to remember, if you do like Porsche 911s, that the GT3 is a sweeter-handling, more exciting, more rewarding and cheaper prospect. If you’re not so loyal to the Stuttgart shield, bear in mind that the Audi R8 V10 is probably a better handling, better riding, better sounding and slightly more desirable road car.

    And yet, nearly 35 years after the first one, the 911 Turbo still has its own place and its own charismatic allure, because somehow you can acknowledge its flaws and still consider it the finest fast car in the world.

    Porsche-911-Turbo-PDK_Autocar-First-Drive

    Smiley Smiley Smiley


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    2010 Porsche 911 Turbo launch by Chris Harris for Evo magazine...

    "Chris Harris sets a blinding 0-60mph time in the new 911 Turbo while guzzling Coke..."

    2010-Porsche-911-Turbo_Chris-Harris-Evo_Link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Press Release: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo...

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    2010 Porsche 911 Turbo launch by Chris Harris for Evo magazine...

     

    "Chris Harris sets a blinding 0-60mph time in the new 911 Turbo while guzzling Coke..."

    2010-Porsche-911-Turbo_Chris-Harris-Evo_Link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Best vid so far. SmileySmileySmiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


     
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