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    Re: Lamborghini reveals all-new 6.5L V12 engine and ISR gearbox

    BjoernB:

     so Zonda will not be called Zonda anymore ??? what will be the name H. Pagani choose 

     

     I'm hoping "Fangio". Horacio was planning to name the Zonda with the name of the great man, but as he passed away, Horacio decided it was not the best decision and change it to Zonda.


    Re: Lamborghini reveals all-new 6.5L V12 engine and ISR gearbox

    mariusv:

    Ok, here's how I see it. Supercars, in general, are not purchased based on their price. You forget that the guys who buy these kind of cars are millionaires/billionaires and don't really care about the price. If they like a car, they buy it, no matter the price.


    That's very far from true. The majority of supercar buyers do base their decision on price. If they didn't, why wouldn't Lamborghini just charge a $1MM for the new car? It's because they couldn't sell enough of them. The average exotic car owner is far from a mega-millionaire/billionaire. The Murcielago is not a 'hypercar' or whatever you want to dub such cars. It's a regular exotic just like all the others. It doesn't get grouped into the money-is-no-object cars like the Veyron and Zonda.

    I think if you take a poll of all the owners on here, you'll find that the vast majority are price sensitive and do shop in a price range. If we didn't, we'd all be driving Veyrons, Enzos, Zondas.

    I don't include the CGT in this group anymore because the car is getting pretty cheap.


    Re: Lamborghini reveals all-new 6.5L V12 engine and ISR gearbox

    JoeRockhead:

    More:

    The new Lamborghini ISR transmission (ISR: Independent Shifting Rods) - Innovative servo-actuated mechanical gearbox for maximum performance

    However, it is not the engine alone that defines the character and driving characteristics of a super sports car. Another key element is the transmission. The demands are clear - the ratios must be perfectly arrayed and enable optimum power delivery from the engine. For maximum vehicle performance, shift times should be less than the blink of an eye. Operation must be clear and straightforward, via two ergonomic shift paddles behind the steering wheel. The characteristics of the transmission must be in line with the wishes of the driver at any given point - from smooth city cruising through to tough action on the racetrack. And, not least, Lamborghini customers expect an emotional shift feeling that ensures the sports car's reactions can always be felt and understood. Thus, the development objective was clearly formulated in this respect, too - create the world's most emotional gear shift.

    For all these reasons, the engineers in the R&D Department opted for a robotized gearbox as the "companion" of the new V12 power unit - however, in a very special iteration: the Lamborghini ISR transmission. This robotized gearbox combines extremely fast shift times, almost 50% less than dual-clutch transmission with the benefits of a manual transmission in terms of weight and compact dimensions - both always critical for super sports cars

    Unique engineering for supersportscars

    The new unit is laid out as a two-shaft transmission with seven forward gears and one reverse. For especially high durability, the synchronizing rings are made from carbon-fiber - a material with which Lamborghini has enormous experience. The short shift times are facilitated by the special design of the transmission, known as ISR - Independent Shifting Rod.

    To summarize the principle - in a conventional manual gearbox, be it automated or fully manual, the gear wheels for, say, second and third gears are located side by side. When the driver wants to shift gear, the shifting sleeve with synchronizer unit is moved along the shifting rod from second gear through neutral to third gear. This requires twice the distance and twice the time - second gear has to be disengaged before third gear can be engaged.

    Short distances, fast shift times

    This process is significantly shortened in the Lamborghini ISR transmission - the gear wheels from the second and third gears are separate from each other and the shifting sleeves are actuated by independent shifting rods. Now the shifting process can run virtually in parallel - while one shifting rod is disengaging one gear, the second shifting rod can already engage the next gear. Because these movements partially overlap and the mechanical distances are considerably shorter, this facilitates a significant saving in shift time. Overall, the Lamborghini ISR transmission shifts around 40 percent faster than the e.gear transmission in the Gallardo. And that is already one of the world's fastest automated manual gearboxes.

    Compact construction, low weight

    The new transmission has four of these independent shifting rods, with sensors constantly monitoring their exact positions. They are operated via hydraulic actuators, with an extremely high system pressure of 60 bar ensuring the necessary operating speed. The system incorporates a total of seven hydraulic valves, with pressure supplied by an electric pump. The double-plate clutch is also hydraulically actuated. All system components are contained within one casing. The total weight of the transmission is only 70 kilograms - a distinct advantage, especially compared with the significantly heavier dual-clutch transmissions from the same category

    Three operating modes for all situations

    Lamborghini drivers can choose between three operating modes - the Strada mode offers highly comfort-oriented shifting, with fully-automatic also an option. The Sport mode has a dynamic set-up in terms of shifting points and times, while the Corsa mode delivers the maximum shift strategy for race track driving. This mode also includes Launch Control, the automatic function for maximum acceleration from a standing start.

    With the Lamborghini ISR transmission, engineers working under the sign of the bull have devised an ingenious mate for the new twelve-cylinder power unit. Their work has created an overall powertrain that is absolutely unique in the world of super sports cars.

    Integrated electronic control system

    The excellent performances are possible only by a fast communication architecture through the several powertrain ECU's and considering the powertrain as ONE-system (un unico sistema) in the car.
    The fully electronic controlled coupling device for the front wheels (the ‘old' viscous coupling) is another key point of the powertrain: it is able to continuously distribute the right torque to the front wheels for always attaining the best performance aspired to by the driver. The torque distribution to the front wheels can vary continuously from 0% to 60% of the total torque available.

     

     

    This does not sound like a design that would tolerate failures at all. Any sensor failure or signal hiccup of any kind and the thing will self-destruct. With a single shift rod design, if something goes wrong, you might end up stuck in a some gear, or in between gears (in neutral). With this design, we have the possibility of two gears meshing at the same time, meaning some gear or shaft is going to get destroyed in a flash.

    I suppose this is the gearbox equivalent of a non-free spinning engine... 


    Re: Lamborghini reveals all-new 6.5L V12 engine and ISR gearbox

    KMM:

    I suppose this is the gearbox equivalent of a non-free spinning engine... 


    I´d be happy if someone could help out on that subject but from my understanding any mechanical manual gearbox has the respective gear wheels engaged, it is the shift collar that is selected at each gearchange. Not sure if the gearbox incorporates any mechanical safety mechanism to prevent mis-shifting, the accompanying sensors should prevent this though.

    I´d say that there are quite a few systems in the car that have to rely on proper mode of operation.


    Re: Lamborghini reveals all-new 6.5L V12 engine and ISR gearbox

     I wonder how much Lambo has done in order to properly test the LP700-4 in real life conditions.


    Re: Lamborghini reveals all-new 6.5L V12 engine and ISR gearbox

    Ferdie:

    I´d be happy if someone could help out on that subject but from my understanding any mechanical manual gearbox has the respective gear wheels engaged, it is the shift collar that is selected at each gearchange. ...

     Let me try; it will be hard without illustrations...

    You are right: in any gearset, the two gears are always in mesh (thus the name "constant mesh gearbox"). One gear (1/2 of the gearset) is on the input shaft, and the other gear on the output shaft. However, one of the these two gears is able to free spin on its shaft, until the shift collar locks it to said shaft.

    Now, let's focus on one of the two shafts (the input shaft, for the sake of argument). With a single shift rod mechanism, the shift collar that locks the first gear to the shaft has to move off the gear (and thus disconnect that gear from the shaft) before the shift collar of the second gear can engage its gear and rotationally lock it to the shaft. That's by necessity, due to the dimensions and geometries of the shaft and the shift rod.

    With independent shift rods, it becomes possible to lock both gears to the shaft at the same time. Since each gear will require the shaft to spin at different angular speeds, the result would be a shattered shaft or, more likely, stripped teeth on the shift collars... It is sensors and software that would prevent that from happening. If a positive mechanism is implemented to prevent this occurrence, the benefit of the ISRs would be negated. 

    Hope this helps.

    Kamal (MA)


    Re: Lamborghini reveals all-new 6.5L V12 engine and ISR gearbox

    Thanks for your elaborate effort, it validated my assumptions. What I was trying to imply above in too little words was the dependability on mechanicals, sensors and electronic controls in current cars. If you consider the relevance of troublefree operation, those systems are working outstandingly troublefree.

    I do expect one or two mashed ISP gearboxes though...


    Re: Lamborghini reveals all-new 6.5L V12 engine and ISR gearbox

    If I remember correctly the "mashed gear box" happened to Mark Webber two years ago at Malaysia.

    Something funny happened with the electronics and the box tried to grab two gears at the same time. Kablamoo - gear box toast.

    Update: it was the Singapore night race. Here's an excerpt.

    "Webber would have -- should have -- finished second in Singapore behind Alonso. Both had benefited from having the right pit strategy when the safety car came out. Unfortunately, Webber's car suffered its only mechanical failure of the year in Singapore. The reason was bizarre as the team suspected a voltage surge from an underground train spiked Webber's gearbox and caused it to select two gears at once."


    --

    ...the only thing stopping you in all likelihood, is you!


     
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