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    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    pmarkow:
    my porsche dealer is the second in vienna and he called me today to know my decision on the GT2RS. he said that he will surely get three cars (of the first batch). the bigger vienna dealer will get at least six. he (number 2) got zero R's, the big dealership got 1. that tells you something about total numbers. i am afraid the GT2RS will not be a 'rare' car.

     

    These are interesting numbers indeed. Would point to 3000-4000 GT2RS indeed Smiley As we speculated earlier this month.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    MKSGR:
    pmarkow:
    my porsche dealer is the second in vienna and he called me today to know my decision on the GT2RS. he said that he will surely get three cars (of the first batch). the bigger vienna dealer will get at least six. he (number 2) got zero R's, the big dealership got 1. that tells you something about total numbers. i am afraid the GT2RS will not be a 'rare' car.

     

    These are interesting numbers indeed. Would point to 3000-4000 GT2RS indeed Smiley As we speculated earlier this month.

    yes. given the price tag PAG will crank out as many as they can sell (and both vienna porsche dealers say they could sell double the allocated numbers).


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    pmarkow:
    MKSGR:
    pmarkow:
    my porsche dealer is the second in vienna and he called me today to know my decision on the GT2RS. he said that he will surely get three cars (of the first batch). the bigger vienna dealer will get at least six. he (number 2) got zero R's, the big dealership got 1. that tells you something about total numbers. i am afraid the GT2RS will not be a 'rare' car.

     

    These are interesting numbers indeed. Would point to 3000-4000 GT2RS indeed Smiley As we speculated earlier this month.

    yes. given the price tag PAG will crank out as many as they can sell (and both vienna porsche dealers say they could sell double the allocated numbers).

    Interesting Smiley Although, over the last 10 days or so, I heard from several people that they will not accept the invitation to buy one. Maybe the number of cars sold will finally be limited by demand. The alternatives are interesting and the GT2RS is aggressively priced for being a rather conventional car. Also, I think, Porsche pissed of some long-term customers. I am not sure if the decision to launch the GT2RS was good at all. The damage to the brand seems not small if I listen around...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    MKSGR:
    pmarkow:
    MKSGR:
    pmarkow:
    my porsche dealer is the second in vienna and he called me today to know my decision on the GT2RS. he said that he will surely get three cars (of the first batch). the bigger vienna dealer will get at least six. he (number 2) got zero R's, the big dealership got 1. that tells you something about total numbers. i am afraid the GT2RS will not be a 'rare' car.

     

    These are interesting numbers indeed. Would point to 3000-4000 GT2RS indeed Smiley As we speculated earlier this month.

    yes. given the price tag PAG will crank out as many as they can sell (and both vienna porsche dealers say they could sell double the allocated numbers).

    Interesting Smiley Although, over the last 10 days or so, I heard from several people that they will not accept the invitation to buy one. Maybe the number of cars sold will finally be limited by demand. The alternatives are interesting and the GT2RS is aggressively priced for being a rather conventional car. Also, I think, Porsche pissed of some long-term customers. I am not sure if the decision to launch the GT2RS was good at all. The damage to the brand seems not small if I listen around...

    yes but interestingly enough there are still enough people to buy everything which preuninger's staff puts out. in fact, i have to admit that i got very close to getting the GT2RS myself - some strange affection for their GT division....usually they do great cars but this time they figured they can play in the big league price-wise without changing interior&exterior styling and just adapting the turbo S engine. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    MKSGR:
     

    Interesting Smiley Although, over the last 10 days or so, I heard from several people that they will not accept the invitation to buy one. Maybe the number of cars sold will finally be limited by demand. The alternatives are interesting and the GT2RS is aggressively priced for being a rather conventional car. Also, I think, Porsche pissed of some long-term customers. I am not sure if the decision to launch the GT2RS was good at all. The damage to the brand seems not small if I listen around...

    Absolutely and I am one of them!

    After 4 Porsche GT models, I have now an AMG GTR on order with delivery in 1st quarter 2018.

    Reason: I am pissed off about the about 7,000 units produced by Porsche of the 991 GT3 RS. They have simply killed the exclusivity of this car model and its residual value.

    Also, after a test drive of the AMG GTR, I realised that AMG is able to offer a much nicer driving experience on the road at low speed/revs thanks to an unbelievable engine/exhaust noise. And it is a high performing car on track too which is important to me.


    --

    991 GT3 RS / Gone: Cayman GT4, 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8, 997.2 GT3, Lotus Exige S, 964 Turbo 3.3


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    GoHardGT3RS:
    MKSGR:
     

    Interesting Smiley Although, over the last 10 days or so, I heard from several people that they will not accept the invitation to buy one. Maybe the number of cars sold will finally be limited by demand. The alternatives are interesting and the GT2RS is aggressively priced for being a rather conventional car. Also, I think, Porsche pissed of some long-term customers. I am not sure if the decision to launch the GT2RS was good at all. The damage to the brand seems not small if I listen around...

    Absolutely and I am one of them!

    After 4 Porsche GT models, I have now an AMG GTR on order with delivery in 1st quarter 2018.

    Reason: I am pissed off about the about 7,000 units produced by Porsche of the 991 GT3 RS. They have simply killed the exclusivity of this car model and its residual value.

    Also, after a test drive of the AMG GTR, I realised that AMG is able to offer a much nicer driving experience on the road at low speed/revs thanks to an unbelievable engine/exhaust noise. And it is a high performing car on track too which is important to me.

    Seems to me (speaking as one on the outside of GT models) that this is why AP made a clear statement that Porsche is not in the business of supporting residual values.  If it is a Ltd. Edition, maybe good residuals are implied (though still never guaranteed), but for regular models which have considerable production level flexibility as market demand dictates, I just cannot see how one can conclude that these will not depreciate, as Markus stated in a post above.

    As I recommend to friends beginning to collect art - buy quality art that you love - don't try to guess which artists will make you rich in the future. This could also apply to cars....Smiley


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    GoHardGT3RS:
    MKSGR:
     

    Interesting Smiley Although, over the last 10 days or so, I heard from several people that they will not accept the invitation to buy one. Maybe the number of cars sold will finally be limited by demand. The alternatives are interesting and the GT2RS is aggressively priced for being a rather conventional car. Also, I think, Porsche pissed of some long-term customers. I am not sure if the decision to launch the GT2RS was good at all. The damage to the brand seems not small if I listen around...

    Absolutely and I am one of them!

    After 4 Porsche GT models, I have now an AMG GTR on order with delivery in 1st quarter 2018.

    Reason: I am pissed off about the about 7,000 units produced by Porsche of the 991 GT3 RS. They have simply killed the exclusivity of this car model and its residual value.

    Also, after a test drive of the AMG GTR, I realised that AMG is able to offer a much nicer driving experience on the road at low speed/revs thanks to an unbelievable engine/exhaust noise. And it is a high performing car on track too which is important to me.

    Porsche strategy is not good these days. I talked to a friend last week who has bought many Porsche's (including 918 etc.) and when I asked him about the GT2RS he got very angry and told me he will "never buy a Porsche again". In his case that means a lot as he always does exactly what he says. I just feel over the last weeks that Porsche screwed up badly regarding their distribution policy. And your point on the market being flooded with thousands of GT3RS is part of this problem for sure Smiley

    BTW: You need to write a review when you have driven your AMG GTR Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    4trac:
    GoHardGT3RS:
    MKSGR:
     

    Interesting Smiley Although, over the last 10 days or so, I heard from several people that they will not accept the invitation to buy one. Maybe the number of cars sold will finally be limited by demand. The alternatives are interesting and the GT2RS is aggressively priced for being a rather conventional car. Also, I think, Porsche pissed of some long-term customers. I am not sure if the decision to launch the GT2RS was good at all. The damage to the brand seems not small if I listen around...

    Absolutely and I am one of them!

    After 4 Porsche GT models, I have now an AMG GTR on order with delivery in 1st quarter 2018.

    Reason: I am pissed off about the about 7,000 units produced by Porsche of the 991 GT3 RS. They have simply killed the exclusivity of this car model and its residual value.

    Also, after a test drive of the AMG GTR, I realised that AMG is able to offer a much nicer driving experience on the road at low speed/revs thanks to an unbelievable engine/exhaust noise. And it is a high performing car on track too which is important to me.

    Seems to me (speaking as one on the outside of GT models) that this is why AP made a clear statement that Porsche is not in the business of supporting residual values.  If it is a Ltd. Edition, maybe good residuals are implied (though still never guaranteed), but for regular models which have considerable production level flexibility as market demand dictates, I just cannot see how one can conclude that these will not depreciate, as Markus stated in a post above.

    As I recommend to friends beginning to collect art - buy quality art that you love - don't try to guess which artists will make you rich in the future. This could also apply to cars....Smiley

    People do forget so quickly, that is the answer. I still remember very, very well the market for GT2/GT2RS just 3 years ago. It had nothing to do with todays believes in how "stable" prices are (not to talk of increasing values). And the cars we discuss now are being produced in far higher numbers than even the regular (!) 997 GT2 Smiley

    You are interested in art? That is great to hear. My biggest passion Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    MKSGR:
     

    You are interested in art? That is great to hear. My biggest passion Smiley

    art is a great passion of mine as well, i am mainly c collecting contemporary art. we need to start a thread on that!!!!!!::::))))


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    MKSGR:
     

    Interesting Smiley Although, over the last 10 days or so, I heard from several people that they will not accept the invitation to buy one. Maybe the number of cars sold will finally be limited by demand. The alternatives are interesting and the GT2RS is aggressively priced for being a rather conventional car. Also, I think, Porsche pissed of some long-term customers. I am not sure if the decision to launch the GT2RS was good at all. The damage to the brand seems not small if I listen around...

    Can you explain this some more, which customers are pissed off enough not to buy a GT2RS and why ?

    I for one am but for me it is because I bought the 7GT2 in the bad times of 2008, suffered the depreciation (like you) and now I am really treated like - well treated like nothing, registered my intent to buy in 2014 and reiterated it many times and since the launch zero communication from Porsche so it seems like they offer it to all their "VIPs" and when they get enough refusals they invite the idiots like me buy one...... doesn't feel nice at all Smiley


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    4trac:
     

    Seems to me (speaking as one on the outside of GT models) that this is why AP made a clear statement that Porsche is not in the business of supporting residual values.  If it is a Ltd. Edition, maybe good residuals are implied (though still never guaranteed), but for regular models which have considerable production level flexibility as market demand dictates, I just cannot see how one can conclude that these will not depreciate, as Markus stated in a post above.

    Exactly. No one should expect or demand that non-limited edition Porsche models should be produced with the objective of good residuals. They have said it over and over, that is not their business, look elsewhere if you are that type of buyer, if you expect that and it doesn't happen its on you not Porsche.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    I am one of those diehard customers, with plenty of P-cars in my garage over the years (including 911 Cup cars), 3 Porsche currently.

    It really pissed me off that they wanted to force me to fork out almost €500k to buy the GT2 RS, because of the forced "package deal" with a fully loaded Panamera S Diesel. The latter are basically dead in the water in Germany right now, so the financial hit would be substantial right out if the gates...blackmail, I have since severed the 20 plus year relationship with my dealer and I am in touch with Porsche senior management about this...

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    olli:

    It really pissed me off that they wanted to force me to fork out almost €500k to buy the GT2 RS, because of the forced "package deal" with a fully loaded Panamera S Diesel. The latter are basically dead in the water in Germany right now, so the financial hit would be substantial right out if the gates...blackmail, I have since severed the 20 plus year relationship with my dealer and I am in touch with Porsche senior management about this...

    The dealers doing this should be reprimanded, its unacceptable, hope Porsche does something about this, though I suspect they are complacently looking the other way since its probably Porsche who is forcing those diesel cars down the dealer's throats in the first place provoking such dirty practices by the dealers. Let us know if anything comes from it olli, what a shame after your long history and loyalty to the brand.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Gotta hurry and sell those diesels before they get banned like the Macan and Cayenne hah


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    olli:

    I am one of those diehard customers, with plenty of P-cars in my garage over the years (including 911 Cup cars), 3 Porsche currently.

    It really pissed me off that they wanted to force me to fork out almost €500k to buy the GT2 RS, because of the forced "package deal" with a fully loaded Panamera S Diesel. The latter are basically dead in the water in Germany right now, so the financial hit would be substantial right out if the gates...blackmail, I have since severed the 20 plus year relationship with my dealer and I am in touch with Porsche senior management about this...

     


    Been there, done that.... they didn't care and so did I and I decided to sell all of my P-cars at a loss with less headache and better sleeps every night, knowing I now have a V10 and V12 to fire up on weekends and holidays Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    olli:

    I am one of those diehard customers, with plenty of P-cars in my garage over the years (including 911 Cup cars), 3 Porsche currently.

    It really pissed me off that they wanted to force me to fork out almost €500k to buy the GT2 RS, because of the forced "package deal" with a fully loaded Panamera S Diesel. The latter are basically dead in the water in Germany right now, so the financial hit would be substantial right out if the gates...blackmail, I have since severed the 20 plus year relationship with my dealer and I am in touch with Porsche senior management about this...

     

    a german dealer tried to pull off a GT4 + panamera deal with me back when GT4s were hot. i sent him to that place::::))))


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Carlos, I agree with you in the sense that apparantly, Porsche Germany, their local sales and distribution organization, is pulling at least some strings behind the scenes on this "package deal"...if they don't change their tune on this, I may well follow BiTurbo down the path of kissing good-buy to the brand...at least last time they pissed me off big time (surprise, surprise, it was in conjunction with my current 991 GT3 RS), they eventually saw the error of their ways, apologized officially at board level and invited me up to the Ice Force snow and ice drifting event in northern Finland...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    I also find it hilarious that some say that they destroyed the resale value by producing more cars. It is just plain selfish. So you were in the inner circle and drove a car for free and now it doesn't work anymore so you go somewhere else? Sad trait of human nature. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    GoHardGT3RS:
     

    Absolutely and I am one of them!

    After 4 Porsche GT models, I have now an AMG GTR on order with delivery in 1st quarter 2018.

    Reason: I am pissed off about the about 7,000 units produced by Porsche of the 991 GT3 RS. They have simply killed the exclusivity of this car model and its residual value.

    Also, after a test drive of the AMG GTR, I realised that AMG is able to offer a much nicer driving experience on the road at low speed/revs thanks to an unbelievable engine/exhaust noise. And it is a high performing car on track too which is important to me.

     

    There was never '7000' GT3RSs made. It was just a internet rumour started on Rennlist. You do realized Porsche didn't even make 7000 Turbo/Turbo S combined during that 18 months when it was in production right?

    A good educated guess would be no more than 5000 GT3RS made, might even be closer than 4000. I was at the factory many times during the production period and there are far more Turbo/Turbo S on the line than GT3RSs. 

    For comparison, there are about 4000ish GT3s made over a 2+ year period. 

    Look around, how often do you see GT3s, Turbo/Turbo S vs GT3RSs?


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    SciFrog:

    I also find it hilarious that some say that they destroyed the resale value by producing more cars. It is just plain selfish. So you were in the inner circle and drove a car for free and now it doesn't work anymore so you go somewhere else? Sad trait of human nature. 

    I think people here are thinking of jumping ship because of those "package deal", or the inability to get cars they want, not because of resale value.

    I myself have had my share of money loss from Porsche cars, but I have to say the loss was less than other brands, and driving experience was better.  No regards at all.

    I have mixed feeling about 918 owners having first dip to all special cars in Canada.  I think there currently are at least 5 original 918 owners in Vancouver (one is our good friend Nick).  Basically, any special cars that come into Vancouver with less than 5, I will have zero chance to buy it unless one of 918 owner passed, which is unlikely.  Without this VIP thing, I am sure I can get any special Porsche that I want.Smiley


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    pmarkow:
    MKSGR:
     

    You are interested in art? That is great to hear. My biggest passion Smiley

    art is a great passion of mine as well, i am mainly c collecting contemporary art. we need to start a thread on that!!!!!!::::))))

    Great idea! The risk is I would write far more posts on art than on cars Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    TB993tt:
    MKSGR:
     

    Interesting Smiley Although, over the last 10 days or so, I heard from several people that they will not accept the invitation to buy one. Maybe the number of cars sold will finally be limited by demand. The alternatives are interesting and the GT2RS is aggressively priced for being a rather conventional car. Also, I think, Porsche pissed of some long-term customers. I am not sure if the decision to launch the GT2RS was good at all. The damage to the brand seems not small if I listen around...

    Can you explain this some more, which customers are pissed off enough not to buy a GT2RS and why ?

    I for one am but for me it is because I bought the 7GT2 in the bad times of 2008, suffered the depreciation (like you) and now I am really treated like - well treated like nothing, registered my intent to buy in 2014 and reiterated it many times and since the launch zero communication from Porsche so it seems like they offer it to all their "VIPs" and when they get enough refusals they invite the idiots like me buy one...... doesn't feel nice at all Smiley

    You are 100% right - those who bought these cars for years are not shown the necessary respect in many cases. On the other hand, customers with high turnover (many cars bought) don't get a car of the fiest allocation either. All this damages a lot of trust and interest in Porsche. Worst thing is this damage cannot be healed even with more cars becoming available later. The overall effect for Porsche will probably be negative (you can just compare the number of cars allocated in the first tranche vs the number of customers who were not confirmed in thebdirstvround; if the latter number is larger than the first the net effect for Porsche will be negative in the medium term, I am pretty sure...).


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    olli:

    I am one of those diehard customers, with plenty of P-cars in my garage over the years (including 911 Cup cars), 3 Porsche currently.

    It really pissed me off that they wanted to force me to fork out almost €500k to buy the GT2 RS, because of the forced "package deal" with a fully loaded Panamera S Diesel. The latter are basically dead in the water in Germany right now, so the financial hit would be substantial right out if the gates...blackmail, I have since severed the 20 plus year relationship with my dealer and I am in touch with Porsche senior management about this...

     

    The strategy of Porsche is particularly dangerous with so many super attractive alternatives in the market (720s, GTO, Performante etc)...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    In the end Porsche will probably laugh all the way to the bank. If they don't sell enough in Europe or in the USA they will sell them in the Middle East and in China.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

     

    Look around, how often do you see GT3s, Turbo/Turbo S vs GT3RSs?

    On the Internet (sales sites) you see the GT3RS much more often than turbos...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    SciFrog:

    In the end Porsche will probably laugh all the way to the bank. If they don't sell enough in Europe or in the USA they will sell them in the Middle East and in China.

    It is not so easy for Porsche to sell their higher margin cars (turbo/turbo s) these days... The more they damage their customer base the bigger will be the medium term problem...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Maybe. But honestly there are many reasons why turbos are harder to sell like outdated interior, boring quiet sound, very high price and increased relevant competition.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    SciFrog:

    Maybe. But honestly there are many reasons why turbos are harder to sell like outdated interior, boring quiet sound, very high price and increased relevant competition.

    Even more important are thos who have bought many turbos as they like the concept!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    The package is phenomenal. Fast cool looking sporty car with small cargo space, rear seats and convertible that can be used as a DD. We should all have or want one in the garage. And yet just look how many here are fleeing the platform.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    GoHardGT3RS:
    MKSGR:
     

    Interesting Smiley Although, over the last 10 days or so, I heard from several people that they will not accept the invitation to buy one. Maybe the number of cars sold will finally be limited by demand. The alternatives are interesting and the GT2RS is aggressively priced for being a rather conventional car. Also, I think, Porsche pissed of some long-term customers. I am not sure if the decision to launch the GT2RS was good at all. The damage to the brand seems not small if I listen around...

    Absolutely and I am one of them!

    After 4 Porsche GT models, I have now an AMG GTR on order with delivery in 1st quarter 2018.

    Reason: I am pissed off about the about 7,000 units produced by Porsche of the 991 GT3 RS. They have simply killed the exclusivity of this car model and its residual value.

    Also, after a test drive of the AMG GTR, I realised that AMG is able to offer a much nicer driving experience on the road at low speed/revs thanks to an unbelievable engine/exhaust noise. And it is a high performing car on track too which is important to me.

    If you want an exclusive car with good residuals, why don't you buy an exclusive car with good residuals? You bought a 911. The GT3 residuals and demand are actually just a recent phenomenon. They were never in huge demand and they never had good residuals. Modern Porsches only recently came into favor. Hell, CGTs were $300K all day not long ago.

    Should have bought a CGT if you cared about exclusivity and value. That was an exclusive car. 991 GT3 RS? Not even close.

    Also, GT3 RS prices are actually bouyed by all the speculators hogging allocation. Your car would be worth much less if they had to sell them all to regular customers IMO.


     
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