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    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Heed Stradale's sage advice. While I do not profess to be an expert,I do own a Turbo Tip and I do have a build slot reserved for a 2008 Turbo as I expect both a powerkit and a sport exhaust will appear prior to the end of model year. The Tip option will not be checked on the 2008 pro forma as I find the car less engaging than the manual, the transmission shifts at inopportune times, and the torque converter isolates the driver from the car. Simply, the car is less involving.

    Stradales's caveat merits repeating. Drive both and do not predicate a purchase decision on the speculative opinions.

    A quick review of the threads suggests many have never driven a Tip or perhaps even own a Turbo.

    Drive both

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    This Tip vs. manual is starting to remind me of a photography class I took a while ago.

    Firstly, if a guy is doing alot of rush hour traffic, commuting then by all means do not frown on the Tip: it's an excellent transmission.

    If you want to use the car for more open-road and non-routine driving get the manual if so inclined.

    The photo class: we were all amateurs. All we needed was a decent adjustable camera. There was a guy in the class who went nuts claiming expensive, complex, and many pieces of wide ranging equipment were needed. All we wanted was to learn about photography as creative personal expression.

    Obviously the parallel is the more particular you are, the more track-conscious you are, the more you can feel the "innopportune" shift points in the Tip when lifting off the gas while making an aggressive turn, then the more you should test drive a Tip to decide if you can live with it.

    What was that again..., Live with what? here's a quote:

    "This smart automatic still causes weight transfer problems in some cornering situations, however particularly if your driving becomes less aggressive- even for a moment. The auto modes intelligent mapping defaults to a lazier schedule too quickly one that make wake up and downshift on the way through a turn. "

    Just imagine sitting in traffic when your clutch leg has had enough and driving has long ceased to be fun. Will you be glad you didn't get the Tip with the "Smart automatic" shift points causing problems with "weight transfer" during aggressive driving around turns?

    Oh..., very important point: what about putting the Tip in __manual__ mode around those turns? I betcha there will be less to not like about it.


    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Well said, MMD.

    If I were using the car as a daily driver through busy traffic, I'd get Tip in a heart beat. It would be a no brainer.

    In my case, I have a Jaguar S-Type R as my day car and it's an automatic and very comfortable. So I opted for manual for the 911 Turbo precisely because I don't plan to be driving it in heavy traffic on a day to day basis.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    Draginol said:
    Well said, MMD.

    If I were using the car as a daily driver through busy traffic, I'd get Tip in a heart beat. It would be a no brainer.

    In my case, I have a Jaguar S-Type R as my day car and it's an automatic and very comfortable. So I opted for manual for the 911 Turbo precisely because I don't plan to be driving it in heavy traffic on a day to day basis.




    The discussion should maybe migrate to "what are the differences between PDK and Tip?"

    Why? because when PDK becomes available no one on this board or any other will be able to make a sensible case for not getting the PDK in the Turbo.

    Why? Because the turbo is potentially so fast to get that speed you can no longer waste time shifting with wrist and left leg.

    See where I'm going? If the turbo-Tip can do shifts faster than a proficient manual operator the game is today won by Tip.

    If driver isn't highly proficient then Tip wins again.

    If PDK is faster than Tip it will be probably be faster than any EXPERT driver too.

    How do I know this as a rank amateur? Because manual trannys are a thing of the past in F1 and other classes of race cars.

    Am I correct in thinking the Tip is a precursor to PDK? Am I correct in thinking the Turbo has gotten so fast and powerful that a manual can't keep up with that potential no matter how skillful a shifter the driver is?




    Awwww sheeeet! I forgot to say I'm talking about the Tip and the PDK EXCLUSIVELY in _manual_ mode.

    The _auto_ modes will always be lacking because they are computer managed and will never do what humans would do because computers aren't humans.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    MMD, with all due respect, I strongly suspect you have never driven a Turbo Tip and your remarks are merely ruminations of conventional wisdoms. The Tip is an excellent transmission...for AMG Mercedes and I have owned three since 2003. The Tip used in my Cayenne Turbo S (different transmission manufacturer and a six speed) is quite well suited to the intended market application and segment for the vehicle. It is my belief (and I do own and drive a Turbo Tip) the MB transmission dulls the responsiveness of the Porsche driving experience. Morever, the actual performance of the transmission does not necessarily mirror the narrative in the owner's manual or in the dealer's promotional literature; for example, according to the owner's manual, when the 'sport' button is pressed, the car starts in first gear. Specifically, on page 185 in the manual it indicates "When the Sport mode is selected, the vehicle moves off in first gear." In fact, it may or may not depending on a constellation of preceding operational linked variables. My complaints regarding this discrepancy found in the owner's manual not only on page 185 but also on page 75 were reported to my dealer who subsequently contacted PCNA. The error was confirmed. A downshift from second to first may be forced; however, this occurs with a lag. A review of your Turbo's manual will lend credence to my point.

    Moreover, for over two years, my 997s was my daily commuter and depressing the clutch in stop start traffic was never troublesome or tiring for me...and it may not be for others. In fact, I once again suggest you read what your owner's manual points out re the Tip when congested conditions are encountered.

    Your choice or mine is a function of preference. To define your preference functions collect and analyze accurate and objective data. A purchasing based on heresay and misinformation will disappoint. Drive both...

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    SchH III said:
    MMD, with all due respect, I strongly suspect you have never driven a Turbo Tip and your remarks are merely ruminations of conventional wisdoms. The Tip is an excellent transmission...for AMG Mercedes and I have owned three since 2003. The Tip used in my Cayenne Turbo S (different transmission manufacturer and a six speed) is quite well suited to the intended market application and segment for the vehicle. It is my belief (and I do own and drive a Turbo Tip) the MB transmission dulls the responsiveness of the Porsche driving experience. Morever, the actual performance of the transmission does not necessarily mirror the narrative in the owner's manual or in the dealer's promotional literature; for example, according to the owner's manual, when the 'sport' button is pressed, the car starts in first gear. Specifically, on page 185 in the manual it indicates "When the Sport mode is selected, the vehicle moves off in first gear." In fact, it may or may not depending on a constellation of preceding operational linked variables. My complaints regarding this discrepancy found in the owner's manual not only on page 185 but also on page 75 were reported to my dealer who subsequently contacted PCNA. The error was confirmed. A downshift from second to first may be forced; however, this occurs with a lag. A review of your Turbo's manual will lend credence to my point.

    Moreover, for over two years, my 997s was my daily commuter and depressing the clutch in stop start traffic was never troublesome or tiring for me...and it may not be for others. In fact, I once again suggest you read what your owner's manual points out re the Tip when congested conditions are encountered.

    Your choice or mine is a function of preference. To define your preference functions collect and analyze accurate and objective data. A purchasing based on heresay and misinformation will disappoint. Drive both...



    I have driven both the tip and the manual in a C4S. I owned both. But in all fairness, hell will freeze over before most Porsche dealerships will allow you to drive two turbo's head to head...one with manual and the other with tip.

    Though I agree with almost all the comments made in this forum, almost nobody has really given the tip a chance. What do I mean? I know that there is a learning curve on the tip and that when used properly it is way better then any one is willing to admit. I would go so far as to speculate that more than 50% of the purists on this board would post better track times with a tip over the manual given a few days of practice. Why? Because it takes more skill to get the performance out of a turbo with a manual than with a tip. Most of us aren't that talented, at least not when it comes to performance driving.

    With that said, it is more engaging( think fun ) to drive a manual. But the idea of loss of performance or handling for all but the exceptional driven is IMO an illusion.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    Ksurg said:
    Quote:
    SchH III said:
    MMD, with all due respect, I strongly suspect you have never driven a Turbo Tip and your remarks are merely ruminations of conventional wisdoms. The Tip is an excellent transmission...for AMG Mercedes and I have owned three since 2003. The Tip used in my Cayenne Turbo S (different transmission manufacturer and a six speed) is quite well suited to the intended market application and segment for the vehicle. It is my belief (and I do own and drive a Turbo Tip) the MB transmission dulls the responsiveness of the Porsche driving experience. Morever, the actual performance of the transmission does not necessarily mirror the narrative in the owner's manual or in the dealer's promotional literature; for example, according to the owner's manual, when the 'sport' button is pressed, the car starts in first gear. Specifically, on page 185 in the manual it indicates "When the Sport mode is selected, the vehicle moves off in first gear." In fact, it may or may not depending on a constellation of preceding operational linked variables. My complaints regarding this discrepancy found in the owner's manual not only on page 185 but also on page 75 were reported to my dealer who subsequently contacted PCNA. The error was confirmed. A downshift from second to first may be forced; however, this occurs with a lag. A review of your Turbo's manual will lend credence to my point.

    Moreover, for over two years, my 997s was my daily commuter and depressing the clutch in stop start traffic was never troublesome or tiring for me...and it may not be for others. In fact, I once again suggest you read what your owner's manual points out re the Tip when congested conditions are encountered.

    Your choice or mine is a function of preference. To define your preference functions collect and analyze accurate and objective data. A purchasing based on heresay and misinformation will disappoint. Drive both...



    I have driven both the tip and the manual in a C4S. I owned both. But in all fairness, hell will freeze over before most Porsche dealerships will allow you to drive two turbo's head to head...one with manual and the other with tip.

    Though I agree with almost all the comments made in this forum, almost nobody has really given the tip a chance. What do I mean? I know that there is a learning curve on the tip and that when used properly it is way better then any one is willing to admit. I would go so far as to speculate that more than 50% of the purists on this board would post better track times with a tip over the manual given a few days of practice. Why? Because it takes more skill to get the performance out of a turbo with a manual than with a tip. Most of us aren't that talented, at least not when it comes to performance driving.

    With that said, it is more engaging( think fun ) to drive a manual. But the idea of loss of performance or handling for all but the exceptional driven is IMO an illusion.



    Oh yeah,
    The next time I view this thread I expect to be the proud owner of a new cobalt 997 turbo with tip...or maybe a black 997 turbo with manual...I'll figure it out!

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    MMD said:Why? Because the turbo is potentially so fast to get that speed you can no longer waste time shifting with wrist and left leg..



    You can use 1st and shift to second just fine. Just start slower. In my book a turbo is not a drag racer and 1st gear starts do not have to be jack-rabitt-like. Given your stated difficulty in controlling a 1st-to-2nd shift I suppose you are predisposed to prefer tip anyway.

    When the PDK comes, however excellent it may be, there will always be some (maybe many) who will continue to prefer manual.

    Transmission choices are personal decisions. One is not better than the other. You may have reasons to prefer automatic and that is perfectly fine. The current Tip-S is a very good transmission no matter the nay-sayers (this comes from a 6-speed driver). Both transmissions require skill (including the tip) for proper driving.

    BTW, I agree that manual transmissions are making less and less sense as time goes on.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    This Tip vs. manual is starting to remind me of a photography class I took a while ago.

    Firstly, if a guy is doing alot of rush hour traffic, commuting then by all means do not frown on the Tip: it's an excellent transmission.

    If you want to use the car for more open-road and non-routine driving get the manual if so inclined.

    The photo class: we were all amateurs. All we needed was a decent adjustable camera. There was a guy in the class who went nuts claiming expensive, complex, and many pieces of wide ranging equipment were needed. All we wanted was to learn about photography as creative personal expression.

    Obviously the parallel is the more particular you are, the more track-conscious you are, the more you can feel the "innopportune" shift points in the Tip when lifting off the gas while making an aggressive turn, then the more you should test drive a Tip to decide if you can live with it.

    What was that again..., Live with what? here's a quote:

    "This smart automatic still causes weight transfer problems in some cornering situations, however particularly if your driving becomes less aggressive- even for a moment. The auto modes intelligent mapping defaults to a lazier schedule too quickly one that make wake up and downshift on the way through a turn. "

    Just imagine sitting in traffic when your clutch leg has had enough and driving has long ceased to be fun. Will you be glad you didn't get the Tip with the "Smart automatic" shift points causing problems with "weight transfer" during aggressive driving around turns?

    Oh..., very important point: what about putting the Tip in __manual__ mode around those turns? I betcha there will be less to not like about it.






    To answer your last question specifically it's also posted right in the article:
    "Pulling the consule mounted lever into manual solves that problem but the tip still ignores single gear downshift commands at times - even if making the shift wont cause the engine to exceed redline"

    Above aside have you ever tried shifting the tip in manual around a turn when the steering wheel is spinning? - Don't really feel that way (the same face you gave me) like I just got you or something silly. I mean we're suppose to be "just chatting" right? Maybe if there was a face with a tongue sticking out you'd give me that one? LoL!

    Never really had an issue commuting with my 6-speed 997 S cab after 2 + years even in traffic. The amount of pleasure you get from the control far exceeds the hassle in traffic. But I keep getting this feeling you're agrueing just for the sake of it.

    * If the Turbo is such a horrible looking car inside and out - don't buy it.
    * If you really dont feel the Sport Chrono Torque can be felt in the Turbo - Leave the option off, why get it then?
    * If the 6-speed is so bad - don't buy the 6-speed buy the tip. (But IMHO you should really drive a Turbo tip first.)

    RE: Your photo class parallel. Maybe that guy that bought more equipment than you thought he should have knew he wanted something to get him past just being able to take simple pictures? You bought what made you happy, obviously he bought what made him happy. Maybe his initial investment paid off big-time & he's making millions taking pictures for PlayBoy? Who knows, live & let live.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    SchH III said:
    MMD, with all due respect, I strongly suspect you have never driven a Turbo Tip and your remarks are merely ruminations of conventional wisdoms. The Tip is an excellent transmission...for AMG Mercedes and I have owned three since 2003. The Tip used in my Cayenne Turbo S (different transmission manufacturer and a six speed) is quite well suited to the intended market application and segment for the vehicle. It is my belief (and I do own and drive a Turbo Tip) the MB transmission dulls the responsiveness of the Porsche driving experience. Morever, the actual performance of the transmission does not necessarily mirror the narrative in the owner's manual or in the dealer's promotional literature; for example, according to the owner's manual, when the 'sport' button is pressed, the car starts in first gear. Specifically, on page 185 in the manual it indicates "When the Sport mode is selected, the vehicle moves off in first gear." In fact, it may or may not depending on a constellation of preceding operational linked variables. My complaints regarding this discrepancy found in the owner's manual not only on page 185 but also on page 75 were reported to my dealer who subsequently contacted PCNA. The error was confirmed. A downshift from second to first may be forced; however, this occurs with a lag. A review of your Turbo's manual will lend credence to my point.

    Moreover, for over two years, my 997s was my daily commuter and depressing the clutch in stop start traffic was never troublesome or tiring for me...and it may not be for others. In fact, I once again suggest you read what your owner's manual points out re the Tip when congested conditions are encountered.

    Your choice or mine is a function of preference. To define your preference functions collect and analyze accurate and objective data. A purchasing based on heresay and misinformation will disappoint. Drive both...




    Agree 100%..... PLUS/AND that is excellent information!

    A problem I've always had here (and this is not referring specifically to MMD) is that often I read comments or opinions and you just know the person is regurgitating points he heard on a message board whether it is something from here or somewhere else. It may sound like it makes complete sense, matter of fact it almost always makes complete sense that's why the person is regurgitating it. It's often the person just wants to make a counter point to someones observation and that thing they read is just perfect for refuting someone real life experience or opinion but the problem is they've never really experienced it for themselves. Dun no maybe I'm just rambling but often feel positions should be prefaced sometimes with - 'I heard' or 'I read that'....

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:... Above aside have you ever tried shifting the tip in manual around a turn when the steering wheel is spinning?



    That depends on how one drives. If one drives with hands at 9-and-3 the tip buttons are perfectly located, and fixed paddles would not be. With the new non-linear steering rack seldom will be needed to slide one's hands out of that ideal spot even on tight hairpins.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:... Above aside have you ever tried shifting the tip in manual around a turn when the steering wheel is spinning?



    That depends on how one drives. If one drives with hands at 9-and-3 the tip buttons are perfectly located, and fixed paddles would not be. With the new non-linear steering rack seldom will be needed to slide one's hands out of that ideal spot even on tight hairpins. Besides, doesn't (performance) driving school teach you to shift before the apex and keep the gear during the turn?

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:... Above aside have you ever tried shifting the tip in manual around a turn when the steering wheel is spinning?



    That depends on how one drives. If one drives with hands at 9-and-3 the tip buttons are perfectly located, and fixed paddles would not be. With the new non-linear steering rack seldom will be needed to slide one's hands out of that ideal spot even on tight hairpins.




    Yeah but the way things are now the tip buttons are ridiculous to try and shift while the steering wheel is spinning, it's almost funny trying to do it, like an arcade game. PDK will be like the paddles on my F430, BIG difference in shifting around turns vs. trying to do so w/ your thumbs while the buttons are spinning around the wheel.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:... Above aside have you ever tried shifting the tip in manual around a turn when the steering wheel is spinning?



    That depends on how one drives. If one drives with hands at 9-and-3 the tip buttons are perfectly located, and fixed paddles would not be. With the new non-linear steering rack seldom will be needed to slide one's hands out of that ideal spot even on tight hairpins. Besides, doesn't (performance) driving school teach you to shift before the apex and keep the gear during the turn?




    In beginners school yes but dont tell that to this guy:
    (turn up your volume) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HjXXUyQhPE&mode=related&search=

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Stradale: How do you know that a future PDK will have fixed paddles? I doubt it. PAG designed the wheel thumbs, called it tiptronic and I would be surprised if they move away from that.

    Seriously... shifting in a turn?

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Stradale: How do you know that a future PDK will have fixed paddles? I doubt it. PAG designed the wheel thumbs, called it tiptronic and I would be surprised if they move away from that.

    Seriously... shifting in a turn?




    Prepare to be surpised then.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:In beginners school yes but dont tell that to this guy:
    (turn up your volume) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HjXXUyQhPE&mode=related&search=




    Ah! Sir Walter! But his hands were always at 9-and-3 and he could use a tip right there. actually he was using a sequential with a simple forwards-backwards pattern. And what a foot dance! left foot braking for trail braking and quite sloppy clutch work, often he did not press the clutch fully - almost power-shifting. But that's OK, those transmissions will be rebuilt for the next rally.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    This one is even better talk about shifting in turns!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQnTkV0hA9E&mode=related&search=

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    The ongoing discourse centers on preferences; in all candor, if my Turbo Tip accelerates 0.3 second more quickly to 60 mph than the six speed I could not physically define the difference. Moreover, to ensure it does, will necessitate torque braking, waiting for overboost, etc. This will require some preparation time on my part or I shall be looking at the tailights on a modified Honda Civic...but I NEVER engage in street racing or visit a dragstrip so it really does not matter. Nor do I question or cast aspersion the Tip's performance capabilities; perhaps for most drivers it would best their track performance compared to a six speed. Frankly, I do not care.

    My concerns are twofold: first, a plethora of misinformation re the Turbo Tip has been disseminated and secondly a driving experience which for me (preference once again) which is considerably less involving and engaging relative to a six speed. For others, the appropriate outcome may be antithetical. This, however, does not fall in a rubric of 'right' or 'wrong.' Buy what you prefer...all is copasetic.

    Without going into the specifics, if one plans to modify their Turbo (I have done the exhaust system on mine), ECU mods presently are a condundrum with the Turbo Tip and one may find time allocated to researching this topic well spent.

    If a dealer will not permit a comparative test drive of both cars, members of your regional Porsche Club may be willing to assist. I would recommend caution with the C4S metaphor as the Turbos are very, very different in my opinion.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    SchH III said:
    The ongoing discourse centers on preferences; in all candor, if my Turbo Tip accelerates 0.3 second more quickly to 60 mph than the six speed I could not physically define the difference. Moreover, to ensure it does, will necessitate torque braking, waiting for overboost, etc. This will require some preparation time on my part or I shall be looking at the tailights on a modified Honda Civic...but I NEVER engage in street racing or visit a dragstrip so it really does not matter. Nor do I question or cast aspersion the Tip's performance capabilities; perhaps for most drivers it would best their track performance compared to a six speed. Frankly, I do not care.

    My concerns are twofold: first, a plethora of misinformation re the Turbo Tip has been disseminated and secondly a driving experience which for me (preference once again) which is considerably less involving and engaging relative to a six speed. For others, the appropriate outcome may be antithetical. This, however, does not fall in a rubric of 'right' or 'wrong.' Buy what you prefer...all is copasetic.

    Without going into the specifics, if one plans to modify their Turbo (I have done the exhaust system on mine), ECU mods presently are a condundrum with the Turbo Tip and one may find time allocated to researching this topic well spent.

    If a dealer will not permit a comparative test drive of both cars, members of your regional Porsche Club may be willing to assist. I would recommend caution with the C4S metaphor as the Turbos are very, very different in my opinion.


    Fair enough!

    For those who have followed my posts over the last few weeks I brought home a 2007 MY cobalt blue 997 turbo tonight...finally! Here are some relative points:
    1) I got a great deal going with a leftover 2007. Out of respect for the dealer please don't ask me specifics but way more than I would have guessed based on info on this board.
    2) The car is pretty basic...options include SC, adaptive seats, thicker steering wheel, crests in seats.
    3) I went with the tip. Honestly, if I wasn't planning to use this car as my daily driver and my wife could drive a manual I would have went with the manual. In the end it wasn't an option and I had to compromise. With that said, I stand by comments regarding performance and handling.
    4) Stradale...time will tell but I don't think the tip buttons will be that big an issue and I tend to agree with ADias on placement. However, be wary of getting a multifunction steering wheel with a tip. That is a problem because the tip buttons are small and easily confused with the other buttons.

    I can already tell in the short time I've driven the turbo how different a beast it is than the C4S. I need some time to sort it out. My suspicion is that not all the differences will necessarily be good. However, I am totally convinced, cost aside, that it is the car I want to drive all day every day given the choice.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Congrats on doing the deal, and managing to get SC and AS! Enjoy in good health and post some pics soon.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    SchH III said:
    The ongoing discourse centers on preferences; in all candor, if my Turbo Tip accelerates 0.3 second more quickly to 60 mph than the six speed I could not physically define the difference. Moreover, to ensure it does, will necessitate torque braking, waiting for overboost, etc. This will require some preparation time on my part or I shall be looking at the tailights on a modified Honda Civic...but I NEVER engage in street racing or visit a dragstrip so it really does not matter. Nor do I question or cast aspersion the Tip's performance capabilities; perhaps for most drivers it would best their track performance compared to a six speed. Frankly, I do not care.

    My concerns are twofold: first, a plethora of misinformation re the Turbo Tip has been disseminated and secondly a driving experience which for me (preference once again) which is considerably less involving and engaging relative to a six speed. For others, the appropriate outcome may be antithetical. This, however, does not fall in a rubric of 'right' or 'wrong.' Buy what you prefer...all is copasetic.

    Without going into the specifics, if one plans to modify their Turbo (I have done the exhaust system on mine), ECU mods presently are a condundrum with the Turbo Tip and one may find time allocated to researching this topic well spent.

    If a dealer will not permit a comparative test drive of both cars, members of your regional Porsche Club may be willing to assist. I would recommend caution with the C4S metaphor as the Turbos are very, very different in my opinion.




    I've posted about that 2 or 3 times and was going to mention it during this thread. When people talk about the tip's best 0-60 time I hope they know that. That in real world 'tests' against something other than yourself, you're probably not going to get perfect conditions to torque brake properly. I'm not trying to be negative Tip. It was even a consideration for me. I was thinking about getting the Tip for months but a few things made me decide to stay w/ the 6-speed. One of the reasons doesn't even have anything to do with how good the Tip is vs. the stick. I have the F1 in my F430 so for me specifically getting a Porsche w/ a tip really didn't make much sense. F1 F430 and 6-speed Turbo Cab makes way more sense to me because I really do enjoy sticking it so wanted to have at least 1 sports car that has that feel. Say I owned a manual F430 than the Tip might be the way to go. The 6-speed is a lot of fun though and just gets more fun w/ a Turbo it would be very hard for me to give that up. Even if PDK was out right now I'd have a hard time giving up the 6-speed. Anyway this has turned out to be a really good thread imo. Lots of good info.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Quote:
    Ksurg said:
    Quote:
    SchH III said:
    The ongoing discourse centers on preferences; in all candor, if my Turbo Tip accelerates 0.3 second more quickly to 60 mph than the six speed I could not physically define the difference. Moreover, to ensure it does, will necessitate torque braking, waiting for overboost, etc. This will require some preparation time on my part or I shall be looking at the tailights on a modified Honda Civic...but I NEVER engage in street racing or visit a dragstrip so it really does not matter. Nor do I question or cast aspersion the Tip's performance capabilities; perhaps for most drivers it would best their track performance compared to a six speed. Frankly, I do not care.

    My concerns are twofold: first, a plethora of misinformation re the Turbo Tip has been disseminated and secondly a driving experience which for me (preference once again) which is considerably less involving and engaging relative to a six speed. For others, the appropriate outcome may be antithetical. This, however, does not fall in a rubric of 'right' or 'wrong.' Buy what you prefer...all is copasetic.

    Without going into the specifics, if one plans to modify their Turbo (I have done the exhaust system on mine), ECU mods presently are a condundrum with the Turbo Tip and one may find time allocated to researching this topic well spent.

    If a dealer will not permit a comparative test drive of both cars, members of your regional Porsche Club may be willing to assist. I would recommend caution with the C4S metaphor as the Turbos are very, very different in my opinion.


    Fair enough!

    For those who have followed my posts over the last few weeks I brought home a 2007 MY cobalt blue 997 turbo tonight...finally! Here are some relative points:
    1) I got a great deal going with a leftover 2007. Out of respect for the dealer please don't ask me specifics but way more than I would have guessed based on info on this board.
    2) The car is pretty basic...options include SC, adaptive seats, thicker steering wheel, crests in seats.
    3) I went with the tip. Honestly, if I wasn't planning to use this car as my daily driver and my wife could drive a manual I would have went with the manual. In the end it wasn't an option and I had to compromise. With that said, I stand by comments regarding performance and handling.
    4) Stradale...time will tell but I don't think the tip buttons will be that big an issue and I tend to agree with ADias on placement. However, be wary of getting a multifunction steering wheel with a tip. That is a problem because the tip buttons are small and easily confused with the other buttons.

    I can already tell in the short time I've driven the turbo how different a beast it is than the C4S. I need some time to sort it out. My suspicion is that not all the differences will necessarily be good. However, I am totally convinced, cost aside, that it is the car I want to drive all day every day given the choice.




    Congratulations! That's great. IMO you got exactly the right options. Tip vs 6-speed all depends on the individuals situation. But getting SC, adaptive sport seats, thicker wheel and crests are exactly options I would order, plus PCCB's but you get my drift, your car sounds awesome. Have you posted any pics yet? Need to go look.

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    Congratulations on the acquisition! I expect the car will deliver many, many miles of driving pleasure. Stradale is correct...you have the right options and you make an excellent point re the thicker multifunction steering wheel and the Tip buttons as on occasion an inadvertent interference does occur.

    On your next visit to the dealer you may want to inquire about the new software update (perhaps 18.2 released about 10 days ago.) This upgrade was a positive benefit for my car; also, and I believe Porsche allows up to 2,000 miles for this, it may be worthwhile to have the alignment settings checked.

    Enjoy!

    Re: Must have Turbo options

    New must have turbo option... a plastic surgeon. You'll need the surgeon to surgically remove the smile from your face. Honest it gets painful!

     
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