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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Agreed the X looks OK, but it should for 125K...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    W8MM:
    RC:

    None of my friends or relatives has bought an EV or wants to buy one in the near future. Same goes to my customers and my business related contacts. There is nothing in my real daily life indicating any kind of EV revolution going to happen soon. ZERO.

    RC,

    Your situation is very different from what I observe here, in flyover country, not even the coasts of USA.

    Many of my friends and acquaintances either already own Tesla model S or X, or are very interested in "the coming thing" of electric cars.

    My wife was "first on the block" with Tesla in 2009 (Roadster) and has been using her Model S for daily driving for 5 years.  Two of our neighbors now own Teslas for daily use and I answer more and more questions about ownership of electric cars -- mainly about driving range and how it affects usage habits.

    Now, the Jaguar iPace starts to get some attention and I get even more questions from people.  As soon as the Mission-E starts to be promoted, I think electric cars will be on the lips of plenty of people around where I live.

    If the success of Tesla sales in my area is a benchmark, I think it may be difficult to keep up with Mission-E demand.

    Mike, Germany has a higher EV rate (percentage) than the US. Smiley I may be wrong but I think it is 1.3% in the US and 2% in Germany. 

    You see this stuff because you probably deal more with wealthy people than you're aware of. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Some info on Belgium. Hybrids are so popular here because of tax reasons, I will try to explain (these are app amounts):

    Panamera Turbo: Tax to get license plate (once) : €3800, yearly road tax €2300,

    Panamera Turbo S: Tax to get license plate (once) : € 45, yearly road tax €1400

    If the car is on the company:

    Turbo: personal taxation €1900 per month, deductible in company app 20%

    TurboS : personal taxation €550 per month, deductible in company app 90-100%

    Conclusion: As company car a Turbo S or any hybride is much cheaper. The interesting point is that the tax laws will change in 2020, then the hybride sales will crash in Belgium. Also you predict a crash in used car prices. in 2-3 all these hybrides will flood the market.

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Wait until these hybrid are out of warranty, the repair costs will plumb the hybrid used car values.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Wait until these hybrid are out of warranty, the repair costs will plumb the hybrid used car values.

    Even worse...the tech advances fast now, everything is about electronics and software and the "old" stuff will be difficult to repair/maintain. What is a modern hybrid or EV now, can be already super outdated in two years. With petrol/Diesel engines and tech, things look differently.

    I would never ever buy a hybrid or EV right now...you need to be nuts to do that. Smiley Only leases...


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Sorry RC but Tesla proves the exact opposite since they are always updating the software... Porsche and such better take note of that too, because EV software needs to evolves faster..


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    Wait until these hybrid are out of warranty, the repair costs will plumb the hybrid used car values.

    Even worse...the tech advances fast now, everything is about electronics and software and the "old" stuff will be difficult to repair/maintain. What is a modern hybrid or EV now, can be already super outdated in two years. With petrol/Diesel engines and tech, things look differently.

    I would never ever buy a hybrid or EV right now...you need to be nuts to do that. Smiley Only leases...


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    This is why Audi has embarked on a 3.1 million mile test program for its EV program.   One has yet to witness tangible evidence of a testing protocol at Tesla.   


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    More blind bashing, will you really tell us what your agenda is?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    TIL: Teslas are breaking down left and right because Tesla doesn't use a VAG EV testing protocol that involves scamming emissions because your tech is too shitty to be legal.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Sorry RC but Tesla proves the exact opposite since they are always updating the software... Porsche and such better take note of that too, because EV software needs to evolves faster..

    VW Group knows that, they already put tons of money and development effort in new IT and software development for that purpose. Especially software is the future...I try to convince my daughter to become a software engineer because she doesn't seem to like medicine or dentistry but she doesn't really know what she wants to do (she is pretty good with mathematics, surprisingly).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Software development will give you best chance at financial success since it's probably one of the few ways you can create something big without big investment, and while finding out the results of your work pretty quickly.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    Sorry RC but Tesla proves the exact opposite since they are always updating the software... Porsche and such better take note of that too, because EV software needs to evolves faster..

    VW Group knows that, they already put tons of money and development effort in new IT and software development for that purpose. Especially software is the future...I try to convince my daughter to become a software engineer because she doesn't seem to like medicine or dentistry but she doesn't really know what she wants to do (she is pretty good with mathematics, surprisingly).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    Let her try Computer Science. One of the most interesting and evolving fields around. Much more flexibility in terms of what she wants her career to be.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    As I am personally learning the hard way on two fronts, manufacturing and getting real estate place is really costly and a giant pain...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Yup, and the best thing about software development is you get to leverage all the really hard work of others -- hardware, operating systems, and advanced APIs. 

    It's important that a child gets a first good introduction to development though. The worst is learning in college when they make you do the most boring, stupid stuff. It really turns people off when instead of just diving into building things and using APIs and useful functions, your teacher makes you build functions that do pointless things that are just hard or tedious for the sake of being hard or tedious.

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:

    Yup, and the best thing about software development is you get to leverage all the really hard work of others -- hardware, operating systems, and advanced APIs. 

    It's important that a child gets a first good introduction to development though. The worst is learning in college when they make you do the most boring, stupid stuff. It really turns people off when instead of just diving into building things and using APIs and useful functions, your teacher makes you build functions that do pointless things that are just hard or tedious for the sake of being hard or tedious.

     

    It is actually pretty sad that none of the teachers in school inspired my daughter to have a certain preference of what she wants to do in life after school. ZERO inspiration, my daughter is clueless. I try to guide her into certain directions (also from a financial point of view, living your life without money isn't really great Smiley) but she is clueless about what she wants to do and actually hates school, believe it or not. Despite her great marks. Smiley She doesn't have the best social skills (surprisingly, she can fake them pretty well) and prefers a job where she doesn't have to interact with (many) people but she is young and still a child and children change.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Sounds like she should become a developer then -- can work remotely, teach yourself, and never interact with people.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    More blind bashing, will you really tell us what your agenda is?

    Feeling too much like a beta tester?

    Testing protocols are an essential part of the development process and there is little evidence of Tesla’s program.  OTA is a guise to release less than completely developed product in the marketplace as functionality is gradually added over time.   


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:

    TIL: Teslas are breaking down left and right because Tesla doesn't use a VAG EV testing protocol that involves scamming emissions because your tech is too shitty to be legal.

    Volkswagen Group has paid its fines and had embraced EVs to reduce vehicle emissions.  Management is being replaced.   


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:
    SciFrog:

    More blind bashing, will you really tell us what your agenda is?

    Feeling too much like a beta tester?

    Testing protocols are an essential part of the development process and there is little evidence of Tesla’s program.  OTA is a guise to release less than completely developed product in the marketplace as functionality is gradually added over time.   

    You'd cum in your pants at the chance to beta test Porsche products. If Porsche offered to sell a Mission-E right now to people on this forum, people would have their checkbooks out.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:
    SciFrog:

    More blind bashing, will you really tell us what your agenda is?

    Feeling too much like a beta tester?

    Testing protocols are an essential part of the development process and there is little evidence of Tesla’s program.  OTA is a guise to release less than completely developed product in the marketplace as functionality is gradually added over time.   

    Funny thing is that Tesla have a pretty solid track record of problem free OTA-updates. So I think you can be quite sure that Teslas testing protocols are among the best out there. Why would they share their protocols btw? The entire Tesla software platform is one of their most important assets. They won't speak much about it just like google doesn't speak much about their algorithms. 

    The way Tesla does it is quite impressive and to reach that level for other automakers will take time. It's like the brick and mortar companies putting billions into e-commerce but they still have no chance against Amazon and those who started with a clean sheet with e-commerce.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:
    noone1:

    TIL: Teslas are breaking down left and right because Tesla doesn't use a VAG EV testing protocol that involves scamming emissions because your tech is too shitty to be legal.

    Volkswagen Group has paid its fines and had embraced EVs to reduce vehicle emissions.  Management is being replaced.   

    they're trying hard, but the history remains wether they like it or not.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    noone1:

    Yup, and the best thing about software development is you get to leverage all the really hard work of others -- hardware, operating systems, and advanced APIs. 

    It's important that a child gets a first good introduction to development though. The worst is learning in college when they make you do the most boring, stupid stuff. It really turns people off when instead of just diving into building things and using APIs and useful functions, your teacher makes you build functions that do pointless things that are just hard or tedious for the sake of being hard or tedious.

     

    It is actually pretty sad that none of the teachers in school inspired my daughter to have a certain preference of what she wants to do in life after school. ZERO inspiration, my daughter is clueless. I try to guide her into certain directions (also from a financial point of view, living your life without money isn't really great Smiley) but she is clueless about what she wants to do and actually hates school, believe it or not. Despite her great marks. Smiley She doesn't have the best social skills (surprisingly, she can fake them pretty well) and prefers a job where she doesn't have to interact with (many) people but she is young and still a child and children change.

    That s exactly why we are spending serious money for the best schools in the USA. They claim they basically push each child to inspire them and to make them discover and become what they would like to be, whatever that might be. We shall see where it leads in 10 years or so...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Not sure money really encourages that beyond the bare essentials. I'd probably send my kids to a normal public school in a nice neighborhood and then spend that private school savings on travel, experiences, and stuff they want. I don't think K-12 really inspires anyone. I've had good teacher and bad teachers, but at the end of the day, school generally sucks and you don't really learn much useful stuff. Hell, you don't even learn much useful stuff in college.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    1524154042807image.png

    1524154155971image.png


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:

    Not sure money really encourages that beyond the bare essentials. I'd probably send my kids to a normal public school in a nice neighborhood and then spend that private school savings on travel, experiences, and stuff they want. I don't think K-12 really inspires anyone. I've had good teacher and bad teachers, but at the end of the day, school generally sucks and you don't really learn much useful stuff. Hell, you don't even learn much useful stuff in college.

    Wait until you have kids and see the public system, even in nice neighborhoods...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Agree on Volkswagen and history.   When one spoke of testing protocol re: Tesla, documentation isn’t a requirement but seeing physical evidence of product testing in the field, before it is made available to consumers, is helpful.  All the major automakers conduct computer based analysis followed with a rigorous test program before the vehicle is offered for sale.   This process requires millions and millions of past and current CapEx, yet there is no evidence that Tesla has made that investment.

    For example, on the Model 3, Tesla recently released an OTA update that enabled rear seat heating.   It appears that all Model 3s produced were constructed with the heating elements in the rear seats, yet it took nearly nine months of production time for the software to enable that feature.   What else isn’t complete? This may seem minor; however Tesla didn’t include controls for the rear seat passengers.  Those rear seat heaters only operate from the central display panel.

    Final point on the subject.   About thirty years ago, the foremost business writer in Japan wrote “The Honda Myth” describing the early days of Honda Motors.  Honda understood engines but not the other systems of an automobile.  As a result, Japan’s regulatory agencies almost put Honda out of business several times in the 1960s.  Ford entered the picture with a joint venture with Honda to develop clean engine technologies after the adoption of the Clean Air Act of 1970.   Ford engineers were so appalled by Honda’s lack of standards and procedures that they sent Honda their protocols, at that time, dozens of hardcopy volumes.  Honda utilized that information to improve its process and procedures as Ford was being strangled by the McNamara Whiz Kids in Finance.

    Musk continues to demonstrate his overbearing personality through micromanagement and “first principles” technobabble that excite his many cultists, but these actions are irreversibly harming the potential of the company.   SpaceX is a great company, in part, because Musk isn’t meddling in it on a daily basis.

     

     

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    1524154042807image.png

    1524154155971image.png

    Combine the product with the charging system, https://insideevs.com/vw-electrify-america-to-use-abb-btc-power-efacec-and-signet-fast-chargers/ and Volkswagen Group because of the Diesel issues looks poised to take a commanding lead in EVs.   For those unaware, Volkswagen, as part of its settlement with the EPA and Carb has set aside $2 billion to form the Electrify America subsidiary.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    ONE charger in all of Miami Dade county angry That will help angry

    Seriously, this is totally useless. What is not is that in my street there are two garages with multiple chargers...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Sorry RC but Tesla proves the exact opposite since they are always updating the software... Porsche and such better take note of that too, because EV software needs to evolves faster..

     

    Software can only do so much until the hardware becomes the bottom neck.

    I believe Tesla already quietly updated the hardware one, the Nvidia processing unit shipping now was like 40 times more powerful than the original shipping one, I think I read somewhere the last couple days.

    But even with the more powerful processor, it would seems it is still not powerful enough to do all the calculations Tesla would like to have for true autopilot/autonomous driving and no one knows how much more powerful the processor needed to be, it is a ongoing moving goal post.

    Tesla skipped LIDAR technology and wanted to only rely on radar and regular optical camera imaging like human eyes seeing things for their auto-driving, but that's where things go wrong, no processors currently available are nearly powerful enough like a human brain to process those kind of information in real time.

    On top of that, it would seems at that technological fork, Tesla is the only one picking that route, everyone else went on a different path using LIDAR. IF Tesla is successful is solving that technological barrier, they would be golden, if not, they will need to backtrack and go the LIDAR route, that would put them way behind others. It's the down side to be a trail blazer, sometimes the trail leads nowhere, other times it is the short cut. 

    Time will tell.


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    ONE charger in all of Miami Dade county angry That will help angry

    Seriously, this is totally useless. What is not is that in my street there are two garages with multiple chargers...

    That’s the initial phase set to occur even before the Volkswagen Group even has product, beyond the Golf e on sale in the States.   Electrify America has more information on its website and is planning $300 million annual infrastructure investments for the next several years.   This does not include charging networks at dealers or separate investment in consortium charging systems.   This is helping to make CCS the charging plug standard while Tesla with its Supercharger network is rendered an outsider.  


     
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