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    997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup


    According to the Porsche website, the new gt3 is 2.2 seconds faster in Imola (approx. a 1.52 minutes round) than the old one. this is the result of stronger brakes (but no abs), 10 hp more and a sequential gearchange. Luca Riccitelli, who won in Imola said that with that great chassis he would have liked to have 100hp more in that car!
    What do you guys think on the time difference ?

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    WHY THE [censored] ARENT THEY GIVING IT MORE POWER?! THEY CONSTANTLY FORGET ABOUT POWER!

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    Could it be because they have stuck with th 3.6 block in the 997 GT3 car (assuming they have, anyone?)??

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    I wonder if there is some sort of physical limit to how much horsepower they can squeeze out of a 6 cylinder...

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    Porsche 997 GT3 Cup engine spec...

    + water cooled flat six-cylinder boxer engine
    + 3,598cc (stroke 76.4mm, bore 100mm diameter)
    + max. power: 294kW (400BHP) at 7,300rpm
    + max. torque: 400Nm at 6,500rpm
    + max. rpm: 8,200rpm
    + four valves per cylinder
    + water-cooled
    + dry-sump lubrication
    + two-stage resonance intake manifold, central inlet air duct
    + electronic engine management system MS 3.1
    + sequential multi-point fuel injection
    + fuel: 98 octane ROZ, unleaded
    + race exhaust system with lambda-probe-equipped catalytic converter
    + twin-branch centre exhaust pipes

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=92376&page=0&fpart=7&vc=1

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    Actually there is a limit to how much horsepower can be produced with a given amount of displacement without turbos or compressors. The limit is caused by the fact that there is fixed amount of energy available with each explosion in the cylinders. The more displacement the bigger the bang and the higher the available energy. The only way to get more energy per second at a fixed displacement is to have more bangs per second. (Or use turbos or compressors which squeeze more fuel and air in a cylinder) So the higher the revs the more horsepower. Unfortunately revs in engines are limited by wear, effenciency. At the moment the Honda S2000 produces the most horsepower per liter displacement. It has around a 120pk/l. It produces this much horsepower by doing 8300 revs per minute. A 3,6 liter engine should be theoretically able to produce 120x3,6=432hp. Considering that larger engines absorb a larger percentage of the available energy due to more friction, cooling and so on the limit is probably somewhere is the region of 410hp. So the GT3 is pretty close to the limit. Being too close to the limit makes an engine prone to breaking. That's probably why Porsche normally stays well below the limit. They want to be reliable and fast.

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    400 hp are too close to the 381 hp of the 997 wls IMO. and the weight difference will not be huge, remember how the real weight of the gt3 measured by sport auto was much higher than the one declared by porsche!

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    Great post toocool, I learn new things every day I read this forum

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    stupid porsche ignoring the competition again. it is not going to have enough power to keep up with a C6 Z06 or a F430CS, i am very sad indeed.

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    Quote:
    mav21386 said:
    WHY THE [censored] ARENT THEY GIVING IT MORE POWER?! THEY CONSTANTLY FORGET ABOUT POWER!



    Maybe you should read up on the 911 GT3 RSR racing car. Same size engine, more power = higher specific power output.

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    The 996 GT3R cup car and the RSR had 435 and 445 hp respectively out o the 3.6L motor.

    The limit to the motor is about 500hp.

    GT3R and GTRSR both had 6 throttle control valves rather than the ONE we have in our road cars.
    To get the power they have to go to that style of injection OR Direct Injection will do it.

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    The 996 GT3R cup car and the RSR had 435 and 445 hp respectively out o the 3.6L motor.


    This may just have been a typo on your part, but the "GT3R" and "GT3 Cup" were and are not the same model. The Cup race car has never had more than its current output of (I think) 390hp.
    911 GT3R was the initial designation (around 2001?) for what is now the 911 GT3 RSR

    Quote:
    RR4 said:The limit to the motor is about 500hp.


    How did you arrive at this figure?

    Quote:
    RR4 said:GT3R and GTRSR both had 6 throttle control valves rather than the ONE we have in our road cars.
    To get the power they have to go to that style of injection OR Direct Injection will do it.


    I am not aware of direct injection currently being used in a noteworthy high-output racing engine. But I haven't been keeping up-to-date on this subject either.

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    Audi was racing its R8 in Le Mans with direct injection and turbochargers. The new 2.0-FSI with Turbo in the A3 and new Golf GTI seems to be a pretty marvellous engine!

    As far as I know the GT3-R models are usually equipped with air restrictors, I would also assume that the current limit on the GT3 engine with current displacement and technology should be around that number. Beyond that it should become too pricey and lacking efficiency to gain more power!

    Back to the original topic - the 997 GT3 car indeed seems to have a superb suspension, hearing those comments by a professional racing driver (and bearing in mind that we are still talking about a rear-engined car ) should say something!
    Regarding the demand for more power, the GT3s are STILL the fastest manufacturer's cup in the world, using more and more expensive technology just raises the price barrier to use such a car in competition - how many people are willing to pay this? In fact in some countries it becomes quite tense to run those cars in the Cup classes without focussing on the back end of the grid...
    The GT3 is a magnificent car and anybody who sees and hears those cars on the track should be thrilled!

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    Does anybody know what size wheels are used on the 997 GT3 Cup?

    -SB


    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    Of course. Duh.

    Thanks.

    -SB

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    The 911 GT3RSR has 455BHP at 8700rpm as you can see here GT3RSR
    It gives it 455/3.6=126bhp/liter
    This is achieved due to the very high rpm. These kind of numbers in a normal production car are quite difficult to achieve reliably and within in the environmental rules. Dumping more fuel in the cylinders than is necessary in a street car would result in illegal exhaust fumes. Larger figures than 125bhp/liter would be an even bigger surprise in a street car. The bhp/liter is a function of the rpm of the engine. At a specific rpm this figure is limited by the fuel. This is because an ideal mixture of fuel and air has a fixed amount of energy per liter. Race engines are build to rev a lot higher than the normal production engine. For racing wear is not a problem, but for street cars this is.

    Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

    guess they wont use that engine in 3.6 format, but they might increase it to 3.8. dont think they will use the 997 engine though, it would be suicidal to offer anormal 997 at 381hp with kit and a gt3 with 400.

     
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