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    So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on..

    and I was quite disappointed. The car was very smoothed over and much less involving then the 993tt. Less of a drivers car, more of a luxury GT so I think the 997tt is wrong for my dad becuase he felt the same way. He has both a 997tt and R8 on order so we'll probably go for the R8 but does he get in the mean time because hes stuck with a non reliable but great 928s4GShould he looks at the 996or 997 GT3? Is the 993tt more similar to 997tt or 997GT3
    -dsts6

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on..

    for much less money, you can up the excitement level of a 996tt, and i would think there are some very good values out there on them. some suspension tweaks, exhaust, chip, short shifter, and you have a substantially different car. it has the right soul, it just has to be uncovered a bit the after market is your friend.

    but personally, i don't like AWD or turbo power delivery, so i would go for the GT3, all said and done. the 997 gt3 sounds like it will be closer to the power you are used to in your 993tt (than the 996 gt3).

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on..

    Quote:
    dsts6 said:
    and I was quite disappointed. The car was very smoothed over and much less involving then the 993tt. Less of a drivers car, more of a luxury GT so I think the 997tt is wrong for my dad becuase he felt the same way. He has both a 997tt and R8 on order so we'll probably go for the R8 but does he get in the mean time because hes stuck with a non reliable but great 928s4GShould he looks at the 996or 997 GT3? Is the 993tt more similar to 997tt or 997GT3
    -dsts6


    Dsts6,
    I had a 993tt (430hp) and then a 993tts (450) before I switched over to the 996tt.. The moment I sat on the 996tt (literally seconds after giving up to 993tts) I felt bitterly dissapointed for pretty much the reasons you describe.. Felt like salloon, too smooth, WAY TOO SMOOTH (!), soft suspension, soft steering wheel feel, muted exhaust etc..
    However, people that are very demanding about all of the above should still buy 996tt and no other car (with exception of 997tt hopefully). Reason is that you don't buy the 996tt for the car it is when it comes out of the factory - or let me rephrase this statement; .. for the car that P decided to spec so that a huge spectrum of different people can accept and drive (young, mid-aged, old men, women, car fans, poseurs etc). You buy the 996tt for the car that it is within when you start taking off one by one all the silly compromises that P did in order to sell this car to the widest possible audience.
    When you do this then you realise that modern 911s are simply amazing, deliver power, torque and grip in quantities that no other manufacturer even comes close, accelerate like fighter jet without drama, corner like no other car with powers in excess of 550-600hp (bar enzo, GT and maybe gallardo (?)).
    I mean if you look at the tt engine history its ridiculous. P decided to start with 420hp , then went to 450, 462, 482 (gt2mk2), and soon will be at 520-530 with the 997tt derivatives. That's ridiculous since this engine has always been good for 600bhp without opening up the engine, just derestricting it. I had the chance (or misfortune) to essentially blueprint the engine on my tt because of a problem and I was amazed at some of the choices that P had made to restrict the power on this engine. Simply ridiculous. The moment you take these off then the car becomes a monster with HUGE push. Funny is that P has included some of these things on the 997tt but still..
    Forget about R8, it will never thrill you the way 996tt can. Just get a 996tt, chip it, add new double airbox, short shift and racing cats and you'll be at 490hp + 700+ nm of torque. Swap to slightly improved turbos + change intake and then you ll be at 520-540 with 750-800 nm. Then you ll have the car you want. The 997tt is half way there but not quite.

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on..

    GT,

    Can you discribe what you found regarding what Porsche did to restrict the engine. I think many of us here could benefit from your experience.

    TIA,

    Mike

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on..

    Thanks for the long response GT but the problem is how does any of those mods help with the looser steering feel, breaking feel, and overall softness. Should we consider a 997GT3. I believe its much more streetable then the 996GT3

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on..

    You(and your Dad) really need to try 997 Turbo. Both TIP and manual with optional LSD. Only then you can make a real judgement about is it a right car for both of you. I think that I need(and I will have both of them!) two sporscars, Audi R8 and Porsche 997 Turbo! Regading 997 GT3, it is a excellent car but, ultimate NA Porsche is 997 GT3RS IMO!
    Think about 997 Carrera(and GT3 as well as Targa) facelift in August 2007... My advice is 997 Turbo or wait for facelift in 2007. Of course you can not go wrong with either 997 GT3 or GT3RS, if you really NEED car as pure as possible.

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on..

    Quote:
    dsts6 said:
    Thanks for the long response GT but the problem is how does any of those mods help with the looser steering feel, breaking feel, and overall softness. Should we consider a 997GT3. I believe its much more streetable then the 996GT3



    Sure let me tell you what worked wonders in my case (and in my opinion of course).
    My (and your) first observation regarding overall softness can change substantially by changing to the X73 suspension with the stiffer motor mounts. This will reduce roll, brake dive and front lift under acceleration a hell of a lot. P (or Walter Roerl really)has also chosen a different setting\balance with this suspension so its more balanced (neutral) with more power oversteer if you really want it. For me that setting was just right for spirited (very spirited) street driving\cornering but not perfect. To make it perfect I tried getting rid of the stock sway bars and swap them with the GT3 adjustable ones. With a few simple tries I found the perfect setting for me- no roll (at all if you set them tight) and slight understeer to make it safe when you push very hard. Now if you do those simple things you'll have a true sport feeling for the 996tt with more immediate and accurate response, no roll at any speeds as well as fantastic car behaviour in sudden changes of direction. All that with a reasonable ride height and no much $. The engine mounts will also improve the throttle response and overall feel. Check carnewal.com, X73 with mounts and sway bars are around 2-3k euros I think.
    Second thing to do is buy a shortshift; P uses B&M 25% or you can even opt for 35%. The cost of this is around 300 euros..That will tighten a lot the gearshifting and together with the X73 and sway bars will make the 996tt feel like a proper (and very capable) sports car (not just for the mid life crisis xxx year olds etc that P wanted to target)
    Regarding the engine upgrade, this is where things get even more exciting. For the minimum amount of $$ and as a first step you should change to an airbox with dual intakes (I got the sportec ceramic one). It looks just like the one in the 997tt and it improves sound, response and torque. Also you need to go to a capable ecu tuner for new mapping preferably on a dyno. You could do this for very reasonable money and that will take you to 470-480hp with 650+NM of torque if not more. But more importantly it will give the car the thrust you would expect from a 911tt. The difference with those simple things (if done properly- hint; ask tuner for overboost) will transform yout 996tt.
    As far as the exterior goes (if you find that soft too) then I would simply add the wheel extensions, dual exhaust tips and paint front lip and side skirts. Those in combination with the 2cm lowering of the X73 will make the 996tt look the part.
    Lastly if you need more power then, you could swap to slighly bigger (or just modified stock turbos), a new better intake and racing cats. That can bring power to anywhere between 520-550hp with 750+ NM. Few cars will keep up with you and with this kind of hp the 996 does not even feel like a tuned car- its as if it was always meant for that kind of power.
    Forget about any N\A 911 if you even had a tt imo. The power deficit is so huge that you ll have to track to car to really enjoy it. The engine of a GT3 feels empty after a turbo, especially a chiped one. The GT3 shines on the track where the weight adv and RWD allows you to throw the car around certain curves with more venom.. You ll enjoy the tt much more in pretty much any other condition.
    Now all of the above are things that I tried myself the hard way -ie trial and error. Hope that helps.

    PS if cost is not an issue then you should really get the 997tt and opt for a few simple mods that will make this car way better than its rivals. 550hp should be pretty easy to get (from what I hear from tuners) and there are quite a few suspension mods (with PASM) around the corner from tuners (and hopefully P) that will lower the car and satisfy people like your self.. (and myself!)

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on..

    Quote:
    mawyatt said:
    GT,

    Can you discribe what you found regarding what Porsche did to restrict the engine. I think many of us here could benefit from your experience.

    TIA,

    Mike



    Sure, the main thing was the intake cam was off by 3-4 degrees (apparently it is common in many 996tt) and also there are some turbo\ intercooler related pipes that are just, how can I say it, ridiculous! I can't remember which one it is but there is one metallic pipe, in the turbo pressure loop, that has a certain diameter in the center while at the 2 ends it suddenly thins up to an oval shape of appr. half the diameter!! I inquired why on earth they did this since it obviously restricts the pressure flow substantially (we are not talking millimeters here!) and the answer I got is that the factory probably wanted to use same part for manual and tip and there was shortage of space on tip..! Getting rid of those 2 problems gave my (chiped) tt another almost 1,000rpm of power in the top end + more torque throughout.
    Overall, the intake as well as the 4 cats are really restrictive. Worth changing both for quick and reliable bhp.

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on..

    If the TT is too soft, the GT3RS should be quite a nice drive or you can get a C2Scab with that great Cali weather

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on..

    Dsts6,

    Get your dad to first test a 997TT, and remember, the 996TT IS-and the 997TT will soon be-tunable, so try to get him to drive a MODDED 996TT, as well. Yes, it's hard to fiddle with the steering feel, but most everything else-power, brakes, tires, suspension, sound-can be adjusted within fairly safe limits-on the 996TT, and-while there are pessimists out there-also soon on the 997TT.

    And the Porsche 911Turbo, especially when tweaked to one's desires-be it the 993, 996 or 997-is the BEST all-'round super car for the street.

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on.

    The key to unleashing the potential of the 996 TT is to replace the soft suspension with H&R cloilovers and anti-sway bars, plus a power upgrade, racing brake fluid and pads. I did this with my X50 and the car put a huge smile on my face on the track (where it could equal a GT2 in the dry and be much faster in the wet) and for comfortable autobahn travel at 300 kph.There is much less potential to modify a 997 TT, and this would void the new car warranty.

    However, for spirited back road driving the AWD turbo lacks the high-revving light-weight fun factor of a GT3.

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on.

    So I take it you can or can't affect steering feel.
    I drove a modded lowered and stickier tire version of my car once and hte steering feel was heavier i remember and maybe less numb. We would just like to be able to get rid of that "rubber band feel" if you know what I mean.
    Thanks for all the feedback guys it helps.
    We are looking a an 8k mile 2004 tt and will probably do handr coilovers. We dont really care about engine, good enough we'll find some sway bars to do too I guess and it should help huh?

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on.

    Quote:
    dsts6 said:... We would just like to be able to get rid of that "rubber band feel" if you know what I mean...



    My stock 996 C4 has no "rubber band feel" steering. Did you check tire pressures? Low tire pressure my give you a soft steering feel.

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on.

    Quote:
    dsts6 said:
    So I take it you can or can't affect steering feel.
    I drove a modded lowered and stickier tire version of my car once and hte steering feel was heavier i remember and maybe less numb. We would just like to be able to get rid of that "rubber band feel" if you know what I mean.
    Thanks for all the feedback guys it helps.
    We are looking a an 8k mile 2004 tt and will probably do handr coilovers. We dont really care about engine, good enough we'll find some sway bars to do too I guess and it should help huh?



    You can definatelly affect steering feel quite a bit. The new suspension (be it X73 or any other coilover) will change that a fair bit. Then just buy the GT3 roll bars and fiddle with the settings for the front one until you find what you like. There are 5 or 6 settings and the more you tighten it, the more direct the steering will become (and more understeer).

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on..

    thanks very much.
    we think were gonna go with hANDr springs since that seems to be the most used ones on the tt. Then we'll get some gt3 sways. That sound good. Hopefully that will change the feeling of the car sufficiently.

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on..

    btw rubber band feeling is just a vast...vast exageration. its very responsive but the 993 felt more gocart like I remember.
    Were trying to have the best of both worlds here but we do live in LA and we don't want the car to suffer from the road too much so we want to do modifications that don't exagegerate the potholes too much So we'll proabably want to go with not very hard core coilovers and sways huh?

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on..

    Quote:
    dsts6 said:
    btw rubber band feeling is just a vast...vast exageration. its very responsive but the 993 felt more gocart like I remember.
    Were trying to have the best of both worlds here but we do live in LA and we don't want the car to suffer from the road too much so we want to do modifications that don't exagegerate the potholes too much So we'll proabably want to go with not very hard core coilovers and sways huh?



    Then you should get X73 package complete with engine mounts. Porsche's own sports suspension is really a very good compromise for spirited street use at a reasonable ride height for driveways etc. The sway bars can help you fine tune stiffness, balance and roll to your taste. I tried PSS9s and to get similar stiffness I had to drop height to non-practical levels for everyday use. And don't forget that all these parts are original Porsche parts.. But I also strongly encourage you to chip the car on a dyno and upgrade the airbox. Few cars' performance out there transform so much with such simple mods.. You'll be amazed at the power that P has left on the table (for marketing reasons..)

    Re: So I drove a 996tt today, may replace a already sold on.

    Thanks we'll look into the X73 package.

     
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