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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    donatello:
    Der-Schwabe:

    Well, let's see how representative your view is. The Model S ought to be selling well based on your observations of your own view and the views of your "buddies". So, let's look at the largest car market in Europe, Germany (where you are based (albeit in Switzerland)). How many Tesla Model S were sold there last month? None. May be a glitch, how many were sold between January to May, 2021?...14x Tesla Model S were sold in the first half. A 95% drop in sales compared to the previous year. So how did the Taycan fare then? Well, in May 2021 387x Taycans were sold. It was the top seller in the upmarket segment in Germany in May, 2021. So how many Taycans were sold between January to May, 2021? 1,683 Taycans were sold. A 102% increase in sales.

    Source is the German 'DMV': 

    https://www.kba.de/DE/Statistik/Fahrzeuge/Neuzulassungen/MonatlicheNeuzulassungen/monatl_neuzulassungen_node.html

    Seems to me that you & your "buddies" are not representative of market trends.
     

    Why even make a comparison when ZERO Model S were produced for Europe (or rest of the world for that matter) since autumn 2020? This has nothing to do with demand. 2021 will be a year when more or less zero Model S and X are delivered in Europe. And all this independent of what I and my buddies believe or think.

    And the reason why Tesla decided to halt production of the Model S (and X) in the first quarter was spelled out by one analyst: "The S and X are on a slow sunset path (...) The demand for those models has been exhausted". Tesla makes 5 times as much profit on their Model S (& X) than on the Model 3 (&Y), so why halt production unless there is no demand. --- Last year's sales figures tell this story whether you & your buddies are aware of it matters little. 

    Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/02/business/tesla-temporarily-halts-production-model-s-model-x/index.html


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    And yet the new model S and X look exactly the same on the outside (big thanks from current owners). We shall see how they sell. Stay tuned. 
    And absolutely, thanks to the new tech in the model3 the S and X did not sell well once it was clear that the next generation was soon to be released. They managed the ‘Osborn’ effect very well with little left over inventory. 
     

    This is a silly argument. Time is the obvious judge of this. Why not wait until the S is for sale in Europe again and see how it does. I’m sure the VW board is not worried at all about Tesla or the Plaid. Not something they compete against. They are much better in most every category across many brand tiers. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    And Mercedes aren't worry about a TRD version of the Camry will be stealing sales from their S-Class.....Or E-Class, or even the C-Class.

    Model S doesn't play in the same segment as Taycans, or the Audi e-Tron GT for that matters. 

    For the EV segment, on the lower end there are the Leafs and the Korean ones, maybe the e-Mini too, then comes the Model 3 Model Y, then Model S Model X, then the Audi e-Tron GT and then the Taycans capping the segment. 

    They all have their slices of the market, some may argue the cheap version of the Taycan is extending lower into Tesla territory, but once one added some options it will be above them again. It doesn't matter as a Tesla fan will still buy a Tesla even if a Taycan can be had for around the same dollars. And those that wanted a better brand badge will go for the Taycan. 

    The only serious competition in the market would be the Model X competing against the Model S, and Model Y competing against the Model 3, and the Mach E. Audi e-Tron and Jaguar I-Pace do compete against the Model X and do steal some sales as some buyers wanted a European car, and the European ones are cheaper also. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    I see you have all the players lined up in order.  There is no reason why the current pecking order should not be maintained. Can you think of any?  It is not like Tesla has had any impact on the auto industry. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    The only downside you forget about Nick with Tesla, is the kind of cult and ''coolness''perception of people when talking about EV cars even for Europeans. Tesla is like sitting in its own niche.

    Tesla has definitely changed something in the car world and perception. Marketing genius working at his best indecision

    An Audi guy will be interested in Audi and will study the EV from Audi. An EV interested guy is not the normal petrolhead we usually meet and kind of think Tesla and forget the rest.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    My biggest fear are the nerdy non car guys going 150 in 9 seconds.  And you won’t hear them coming!  
    Buy stock in Depends (for pedestrians too). Actually I give them exactly one run for maybe six seconds.  I don’t think the average person has any idea how disorienting that type of speed can be for the first few times. 
    Soon many EVs will be only tire limited - until the government steps in and sets limits for acceleration. Mark my words, and you might all agree. It’s going to be nuts. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    I see you have all the players lined up in order.  There is no reason why the current pecking order should not be maintained. Can you think of any?  It is not like Tesla has had any impact on the auto industry. 

     

    There will always be outliers like in any statistical analysis. A couple of my Silicon Valley friends have deposits on a Tesla Roadster, but that doesn't mean they stop buying the Rolls Royce Cullinan, Or Porsche GT cars for that matters. 

    Buffet still has his Volvo.

    Auto makers, or anyone actually, they don't chase the outliers, they know where the bulk of their market is and that's where they will concentrate, as those are the real people that buys them and give them profit.

    Tesla's aim is the middle of the market, biggest slice, with the most potential customers. Competition is fierce however but they are managing so it's quite ok. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36902443/porsche-taycan-recall-report/

    In another news. 

    Still don't understands why they are so lazy to not change the 12V circuit.

    There is no reason to keep a 12V battery in the car. They literally have a giant battery pack just sitting there, a simple step down transformer is all it needs to power the 12V circuit stuff. 

    Same Achilles heel for the 918. at least the 12V battery inside the Taycan doesn't cost you $9000.

    Come to think of it, even the 'advanced' Teslas all have a 12V battery still.


    --

     

     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Actually the new plaid uses a lightweight lithium 12volt battery. And yes it is also an Achilles heal. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Hmm, not the start that Tesla had been hoping for for the first Plaid: "new Tesla Plaid Model S, which was 1/250 shipped. On Tuesday it spontaneously combusted."

    Sources:

    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-model-s-plaid-that-caught-fire-almost-trapped-his-owner-inside-164467.html

    https://electrek.co/2021/06/30/tesla-model-s-plaid-caught-fire-strange-circumstances/

     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Der-Schwabe:

    Hmm, not the start that Tesla had been hoping for for the first Plaid: "new Tesla Plaid Model S, which was 1/250 shipped. On Tuesday it spontaneously combusted."

    Sources:

    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-model-s-plaid-that-caught-fire-almost-trapped-his-owner-inside-164467.html

    https://electrek.co/2021/06/30/tesla-model-s-plaid-caught-fire-strange-circumstances/

     

    That’s the brilliance of Musk’s margin enhancement program, getting purchasers to get a new car every few weeks.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    The Porsche strategy of bricking the cars during a routine software update certainly avoids thIs problem.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    Actually the new plaid uses a lightweight lithium 12volt battery. And yes it is also an Achilles heal. 

     

    it's a legacy problem for legacy auto makers, and Tesla is also one of those.🤷🏻‍♂️

    They could have do away with the 12V battery, but they didn't. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    Actually the new plaid uses a lightweight lithium 12volt battery. And yes it is also an Achilles heal. 

     

    it's a legacy problem for legacy auto makers, and Tesla is also one of those.🤷🏻‍♂️

    They could have do away with the 12V battery, but they didn't. 

     

    Tesla hasn't really innovated in the areas where it could have made significant contributions.  It is an artifact of not possessing a depth of knowledge in the auto industry.   


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    Actually the new plaid uses a lightweight lithium 12volt battery. And yes it is also an Achilles heal. 

     

    it's a legacy problem for legacy auto makers, and Tesla is also one of those.🤷🏻‍♂️

    They could have do away with the 12V battery, but they didn't. 

     

    Tesla hasn't really innovated in the areas where it could have made significant contributions.  It is an artifact of not possessing a depth of knowledge in the auto industry.   

    Or maybe that’s the advantage they hold.  My guess is automaker are more concerned about where they are behind Tesla rather than the other way around.  This discussion about 12 volt while ignoring the important advance they are making in battery tech is pretty symbolic of the current automakers frame of mind. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    I hope that all the car manufacturers will totally f”ck up with e-mobility and we will return to old good na and turbo engines. E-mobility is a political crap. 
    why?

    1. Li ion, li pol and all li containing batteries is a crap from weight and eco point of view

    2. E cars is a one time used thing. When the battery dies you can throw the car away. Because the battery is a bearing element

    3. electric networks are unable to sustain the load from car charging

    4. all the fees and taxes that are comtained in the fuel price will transfer to electric bills. Hard to imagine the perspective price on electricity 

    5. Safety. The more the electric cars will sell the more fires we will see. with the li elements its impossible to avoid fires, especially when you increase the capacity per cell

    6. Cars become the gadgets. Its bad.

    leave the batteries to ninebot segways and iphones. Give us flat and v12, v16 and h16, v10 and v8 back. Tesla, taycans, e trons, e paces and formula e should die. Hope hope 🤘

    e mobility for farts, gasoline mobility for men


    --

     

    sportcars-history.com

     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Classic. Love your appreciation for ICE cars. A bit off on the facts but that is not important. Great list!


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    kudryavchik:

    I hope that all the car manufacturers will totally f”ck up with e-mobility and we will return to old good na and turbo engines. E-mobility is a political crap. 
    why?

    1. Li ion, li pol and all li containing batteries is a crap from weight and eco point of view

    2. E cars is a one time used thing. When the battery dies you can throw the car away. Because the battery is a bearing element

    3. electric networks are unable to sustain the load from car charging

    4. all the fees and taxes that are comtained in the fuel price will transfer to electric bills. Hard to imagine the perspective price on electricity 

    5. Safety. The more the electric cars will sell the more fires we will see. with the li elements its impossible to avoid fires, especially when you increase the capacity per cell

    6. Cars become the gadgets. Its bad.

    leave the batteries to ninebot segways and iphones. Give us flat and v12, v16 and h16, v10 and v8 back. Tesla, taycans, e trons, e paces and formula e should die. Hope hope 🤘

    e mobility for farts, gasoline mobility for men


    --

     

    sportcars-history.com

     

    +1


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    I truly believe that I am living in an alternate universe where the space time has been distorted.

    I wish my other self in the other universe to continue to enjoy the V12 manual sports car.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    It's interesting to see that all ways of transportation are essentially 150 years old technology (electronic engine, steam engine, combustion engine, even nuclear powerplant is in essence a steam engine)... I think it is time for a radical new principle for propulsion.


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Joost:

    It's interesting to see that all ways of transportation are essentially 150 years old technology (electronic engine, steam engine, combustion engine, even nuclear powerplant is in essence a steam engine)... I think it is time for a radical new principle for propulsion.

    2 legs smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Spyderidol:
    kudryavchik:

    I hope that all the car manufacturers will totally f”ck up with e-mobility and we will return to old good na and turbo engines. E-mobility is a political crap. 
    why?

    1. Li ion, li pol and all li containing batteries is a crap from weight and eco point of view

    2. E cars is a one time used thing. When the battery dies you can throw the car away. Because the battery is a bearing element

    3. electric networks are unable to sustain the load from car charging

    4. all the fees and taxes that are comtained in the fuel price will transfer to electric bills. Hard to imagine the perspective price on electricity 

    5. Safety. The more the electric cars will sell the more fires we will see. with the li elements its impossible to avoid fires, especially when you increase the capacity per cell

    6. Cars become the gadgets. Its bad.

    leave the batteries to ninebot segways and iphones. Give us flat and v12, v16 and h16, v10 and v8 back. Tesla, taycans, e trons, e paces and formula e should die. Hope hope 🤘

    e mobility for farts, gasoline mobility for men


    --

     

    sportcars-history.com

     

    +1

    +2


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Reading all the (sometimes heated) discussions in different sections of the Rennteam forum I thought it was time to share some real day to day experience with the Taycan. In the last 6 month I have driven over 13.000 km with the Taycan. In practice I have charged the car 90% of the time at home. I have the 22KW charger option. In practice you seldom arrive at home with an empty battery so in average my charging time at home is around 2 hours. The calculated range of the Taycan is in reality also the achievable range. Most of the time I even have more Km than the calculated range. To give you an example from my house to Dusseldorf is 100 Km, half this trip is on the German highway. Typically, on a round trip (220 Km) I will used app 55-60% of battery. Taking in account I drive on the German part between 160-170 Km/hour.

    A few weeks ago, I toke the Taycan for a trip to the south of France. It was a bit of a test if it was doable with an electrical car. (see the enclosed picture for trip back). Drove back in one go 1145km, started with 90% battery and charged during the way 3 times in total 1 hour and 20 minutes. At my last charging station, the Taycan indicated a 10 min charge would be sufficient. But for safety I decided to charge 20 min. (arriving home with 25% battery).The Ionity charging infrastructure in France is excellent.IMG_2700.jpegFor my the Taycan is an excellent car very relaxing to drive. The charging infrastructure in Europe is good. But you have to be a more organized compared to petrol cars.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Thank you for the excellent analysis of your experience with a Porsche Taycan.  It's definitely more informative than much of the prattle one reads about Teslas on numerous Internet platforms.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Very interesting real life info, thanks!


    --

    1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2016 Macan S Diesel - 2018 Mini JCW


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Well, this is an interesting Tweet about Germany and the lack of sustainable electricity generation facilities.  https://mobile.twitter.com/JunkScience/status/1445960145276710915
     

     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Smiley CGX car nut:

    Thank you for the excellent analysis of your experience with a Porsche Taycan.  It's definitely more informative than much of the prattle one reads about Teslas on numerous Internet platforms.  

    Observation - if you simply substitute Tesla with Taycan your response would have been opposite.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:
    Smiley CGX car nut:

    Thank you for the excellent analysis of your experience with a Porsche Taycan.  It's definitely more informative than much of the prattle one reads about Teslas on numerous Internet platforms.  

    Observation - if you simply substitute Tesla with Taycan your response would have been opposite.  

    Once again, a Tesla owner is trigger by a statement that wasn’t about him.  Sad.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    CGX car nut:

    Thank you for the excellent analysis of your experience with a Porsche Taycan.  It's definitely more informative than much of the prattle one reads about Teslas on numerous Internet platforms.  

    +1


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    CGX car nut:
    Leawood911:
    Smiley CGX car nut:

    Thank you for the excellent analysis of your experience with a Porsche Taycan.  It's definitely more informative than much of the prattle one reads about Teslas on numerous Internet platforms.  

    Observation - if you simply substitute Tesla with Taycan your response would have been opposite.  

    Once again, a Tesla owner is trigger by a statement that wasn’t about him.  Sad.  

    Not even that statement - intended to trigger me - bothers me.  Too funny.   Have a wonderful weekend!  Don’t be sad!


     
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