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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    DaveC:

    I have been driving for almost a month and I find the car very impressive.  Obviously not pushing too hard for break in, and letting my wife drive a lot to better modulate the accelerator.  The 4.0L is very tractable in traffic and PDK-S in the .2 does not immediately jump to 7th in auto as it did in my .1. There is enough mechanical sound at idle to let one know this is something special but not nearly as loud and (for me) ultimately tiresome as the idle sounds in the .1. The .2 seems to do Jekyll and Hyde better than my .1 did and that is a plus for me. I did a couple of projects.  I got another set of GT3 wheels fitted them w/ the Cup2s that came w/ the car for track use, and put N0 SuperSport 4S for my daily driving.  I also swapped out all the satin black pieces for carbon fiber from DB Carbon. It's always a matter of taste but the satin black pieces were just too flat looking for my tastes.  I also got the washer nozzles and Sirius antenna done in body color.  Overall I think I picked a winner this time around.

    IMG_8365 copy.jpg

    Looks amazing Dave! I prefer the color matched washers too.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    @duckieRS,

    thanks for sharing - Modena is not that much of a speedy track, however, 1.6 sec difference vs. the GT3 touring  shows what the 3L turbo is capable of. I wonder whether the "T" could somehow become a hidden trackday gem for some like me with a limited budget...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    watt:

    having just spent 4 track days in the car, the pdk gear ratios are still too wide and tall when referenced to Ferrari 488  ratios., so little improvement there since the Strad in 2004.

    Then you've been driving on the wrong track.  On the Nurburgring, the gears are perfect Smiley

    Seriously, all the modern 911's feel a little heavy and suffer from a little understeer on short technical tracks.  When you drive them on the Nordschliefe, they feel perfectly matched for the course.


    --

     

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    Grant:
    watt:

    having just spent 4 track days in the car, the pdk gear ratios are still too wide and tall when referenced to Ferrari 488  ratios., so little improvement there since the Strad in 2004.

    Then you've been driving on the wrong track.  On the Nurburgring, the gears are perfect Smiley

    Seriously, all the modern 911's feel a little heavy and suffer from a little understeer on short technical tracks.  When you drive them on the Nordschliefe, they feel perfectly matched for the course.


    --

     

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    Because they are... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    d997h:

    @duckieRS,

    thanks for sharing - Modena is not that much of a speedy track, however, 1.6 sec difference vs. the GT3 touring  shows what the 3L turbo is capable of. I wonder whether the "T" could somehow become a hidden trackday gem for some like me with a limited budget...

    I imagine on the same tires, it would have been very close.  The T is a nice choice, but at $10k more than a base Carrera, it's not that much of a bargain in my mind.  And when considering the resale value, it makes more sense to go for the GT3 (more money in, but much more money out...)


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    Well, I think it is not that straight forward...the GT3 has higher running costs, in particular insurance is a pain in Germany. As this is a GT3 thread I am just wondering what the difference would be on a track such as Hockenheim – how close a base turbo carrera T could get to a NA GT3....I hope to see a comparison in summer though I have my doubts that the T sells that well inGermany...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    Over here it doesn't sell at all. I think it would make a perfect daily driver...

    In a few years time people might lament not buying one.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    RC:
    Leawood911:
    Grant:

    Rolling start does eliminate the launch advantage of the Turbo S, so that could have an effect...

    A couple of things. 3.8 sec to 100 kph is a retarded time. Back when my old 997 S with manual came out in 2005 it was tested at 3.9. 

     Maybe 4.9? Smiley AMS tested the 997 Carrera S at 4.8 seconds.

    The rolling start takes care of 90% of the PDK advantage. 

    Not really in my opinion.

    The manual shifts, once moving, are lightning fast. Watch the manual car in the video and watch for the car losing much speed during shifts. You don’t.  

    With all those revs you stay in a lower gear much longer which gives you a huge mechanical advantage. 

    Weight weight weight.  And no 4 wheel drive which is reduces drive train loss. Made up for by rolling start. 

    The standing start is certainly the realm of the Turbo and 4 WD Care with PDK and launch control. Most races have one standing start. 

    Bottom line is I trust that GT3 slowly walked away from a perfectly good Turbo. I also know the Turbo driver had to do little to go fast and the GT3 driver working the clutch knows his shit. 

    Not possible for a 991.2 GT3 to outrun a 991.2 Turbo S, not even from a rolling start. Sorry.

    I’m 100% certain it was 3.9 by Road and Track. I owned that car and still have the magazine around here somewhere. I matched it myself with a data logger 10+ years ago. Porsche numbers are always conservative when using a manual. Now with PDK the are less conservative because it takes zero skill to use launch control.

    I trust what I saw in the video. A lightweight high reving GT3 with 500 horses has a great chance of staying even in that speed range. Will the Turbo move away after p chaps 160 mph?  Likely. But staying even from 40~150 mph is not an insult to the Turbo. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    Since I roll with a group of drivers most of the weekends, incl. one 991.1 GT3 RS PDK and one 991.2 Turbo S, I can tell you for sure that this is impossible. The 991.1 GT3 RS PDK stands no chance vs. the 991.2 Turbo S on the Autobahn, not even at lower speeds, even if the difference isn't that big as on higher speeds (over 220 kph, the GT3 RS falls back fast, incredibly fast...). We usually drive on the Autobahn to Austria and/or Italy, so we get quite some acceleration comparison time. A 991.2 GT3 with manual doesn't outrun a 991.1 GT3 RS PDK.

    I wonder if the car in the video isn't actually a 991.1 GT3 RS and not a Turbo S but I haven't analyzed the video yet in detail.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    d997h:

    @duckieRS,

    thanks for sharing - Modena is not that much of a speedy track, however, 1.6 sec difference vs. the GT3 touring  shows what the 3L turbo is capable of. I wonder whether the "T" could somehow become a hidden trackday gem for some like me with a limited budget...

    If the “base” 3.0l is this close, presumably on different tires than the GT3, then I wonder what time a GTS would clock. Bet it is faster than the GT3 touring.

    It goes to show which huge potential the GT3 has once it is no longer NA. I think everyone will quickly forget the “last” NA hysteria then... that would be the right time to pick up a cheap viper green RS smiley


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    Leawood911:
    RC:
    Leawood911:
    Grant:

    Rolling start does eliminate the launch advantage of the Turbo S, so that could have an effect...

    A couple of things. 3.8 sec to 100 kph is a retarded time. Back when my old 997 S with manual came out in 2005 it was tested at 3.9. 

     Maybe 4.9? Smiley AMS tested the 997 Carrera S at 4.8 seconds.

    The rolling start takes care of 90% of the PDK advantage. 

    Not really in my opinion.

    The manual shifts, once moving, are lightning fast. Watch the manual car in the video and watch for the car losing much speed during shifts. You don’t.  

    With all those revs you stay in a lower gear much longer which gives you a huge mechanical advantage. 

    Weight weight weight.  And no 4 wheel drive which is reduces drive train loss. Made up for by rolling start. 

    The standing start is certainly the realm of the Turbo and 4 WD Care with PDK and launch control. Most races have one standing start. 

    Bottom line is I trust that GT3 slowly walked away from a perfectly good Turbo. I also know the Turbo driver had to do little to go fast and the GT3 driver working the clutch knows his shit. 

    Not possible for a 991.2 GT3 to outrun a 991.2 Turbo S, not even from a rolling start. Sorry.

    I’m 100% certain it was 3.9 by Road and Track. I owned that car and still have the magazine around here somewhere. I matched it myself with a data logger 10+ years ago. Porsche numbers are always conservative when using a manual. Now with PDK the are less conservative because it takes zero skill to use launch control.

    I trust what I saw in the video. A lightweight high reving GT3 with 500 horses has a great chance of staying even in that speed range. Will the Turbo move away after p chaps 160 mph?  Likely. But staying even from 40~150 mph is not an insult to the Turbo. 

    I remember that test by R&T. They were consistently 1 second faster than all the other magazine tests smiley

    I owned two 997.1 and no way that car is sub 4 seconds to 100.


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

     

    I remember that test by R&T. They were consistently 1 second faster than all the other magazine tests smiley

    I owned two 997.1 and no way that car is sub 4 seconds to 100.

    Sorry to say, but you had crappy (slow) colors back then...Smiley

    I could just imagine that we have (again) this 0 - 60 mph vs. 0 -100 km/h problem...997.1 S with powerkit (385 hp) perhaps... ? Never mind, I just love to see (and hear) a GT3 on track !


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    bluelines:
    Leawood911:
    RC:
    Leawood911:
    Grant:

    Rolling start does eliminate the launch advantage of the Turbo S, so that could have an effect...

    A couple of things. 3.8 sec to 100 kph is a retarded time. Back when my old 997 S with manual came out in 2005 it was tested at 3.9. 

     Maybe 4.9? Smiley AMS tested the 997 Carrera S at 4.8 seconds.

    The rolling start takes care of 90% of the PDK advantage. 

    Not really in my opinion.

    The manual shifts, once moving, are lightning fast. Watch the manual car in the video and watch for the car losing much speed during shifts. You don’t.  

    With all those revs you stay in a lower gear much longer which gives you a huge mechanical advantage. 

    Weight weight weight.  And no 4 wheel drive which is reduces drive train loss. Made up for by rolling start. 

    The standing start is certainly the realm of the Turbo and 4 WD Care with PDK and launch control. Most races have one standing start. 

    Bottom line is I trust that GT3 slowly walked away from a perfectly good Turbo. I also know the Turbo driver had to do little to go fast and the GT3 driver working the clutch knows his shit. 

    Not possible for a 991.2 GT3 to outrun a 991.2 Turbo S, not even from a rolling start. Sorry.

    I’m 100% certain it was 3.9 by Road and Track. I owned that car and still have the magazine around here somewhere. I matched it myself with a data logger 10+ years ago. Porsche numbers are always conservative when using a manual. Now with PDK the are less conservative because it takes zero skill to use launch control.

    I trust what I saw in the video. A lightweight high reving GT3 with 500 horses has a great chance of staying even in that speed range. Will the Turbo move away after p chaps 160 mph?  Likely. But staying even from 40~150 mph is not an insult to the Turbo. 

    I remember that test by R&T. They were consistently 1 second faster than all the other magazine tests smiley

    I owned two 997.1 and no way that car is sub 4 seconds to 100.

    x2Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    manual again:   lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=molqVWTNqjs


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    RC:

    A 991.2 GT3 with manual doesn't outrun a 991.1 GT3 RS PDK.

    Actually it should quicker and faster on the Autobahn.  Manual .2 has same power/torque, same weight or less, higher redline, less internal friction in the gearbox, and most importantly quite a bit less aero drag...


    --

     

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    Grant:
    RC:

    A 991.2 GT3 with manual doesn't outrun a 991.1 GT3 RS PDK.

    Actually it should quicker and faster on the Autobahn.  Manual .2 has same power/torque, same weight or less, higher redline, less internal friction in the gearbox, and most importantly quite a bit less aero drag...

     

     

     

    for sure it is quicker...but not from a dead start.


    --

     

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

     

    991.2 GT3 arriving, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    the-missile:
    Grant:
    RC:

    A 991.2 GT3 with manual doesn't outrun a 991.1 GT3 RS PDK.

    Actually it should quicker and faster on the Autobahn.  Manual .2 has same power/torque, same weight or less, higher redline, less internal friction in the gearbox, and most importantly quite a bit less aero drag...

     

     

     

    for sure it is quicker...but not from a dead start.


    --

     

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

     

    991.2 GT3 arriving, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014

    Not many of those on the Autobahn (on a good day) 


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    Grant:
    RC:

    A 991.2 GT3 with manual doesn't outrun a 991.1 GT3 RS PDK.

    Actually it should quicker and faster on the Autobahn.  Manual .2 has same power/torque, same weight or less, higher redline, less internal friction in the gearbox, and most importantly quite a bit less aero drag...


    --

     

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    Depending on if you have a single-mass flywheel (in the GT3) the manual might lose up to a second between 200kph and 300kph during the manual shifts. Never GPS tested on n/a cars but on the GT2/GT2RS this was indeed the case compared to automated shifted cars Smiley

    P.S.: Just as one element in comparing the performance of cars, of course - no clue about the other elements that will determine the 200-300 outcome 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    dual mass for the new GT3 but flatout powershift which is almost as quick as the pdk changes. unbelievable.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 arriving, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    MKSGR:
    the manual might lose up to a second between 200kph and 300kph during the manual shifts. Never GPS tested on n/a cars but on the GT2/GT2RS this was indeed the case compared to automated shifted cars

    Manual GT3 is nowhere near that much slower than PDK.  You saw those results in the GT2, because the turbocharged engines lose much more time (loss of boost) on upshifts.  And the new Manual GT3 has a No-Lift feature where you leave the throttle to the floor on upshifts - very little loss of time (and less weight and internal friction than PDK).

    Between 200kph to 300 kph:  Manual will pull a little harder than PDK at the lower end of this scale, but once into 5th gear the PDK will pull a little harder due to better gear ratios of the 7 speed.  Net result is very close times.

    When comparing Manual GT3 to RS, the RS is losing lots of time to GT3 near 300kph, due to the large picnic table on the rear deck Smiley


    --

     

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ojd4BrHZS0

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    "Porsche 911 GT3 vs Audi R8 RWS" by Top Gear magazine...

    Link: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/audi-r8-rws-vs-porsche-911-gt3

    wink


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    There is nothing hardcore about that R8 RWS, it is just a Lamborghini LP580-2 with 40 hp less, nothing new to see here. Audi made this car to be able to offer a cheaper car (lack of an entry level car) and the marketing department did a great job (or not?) to advertise this car as something special and limited. I drove it, I liked it but traction can be a bitch (it is good, not as bad as C63 traction but not as good as 991.2 Carrera GTS traction) and it lacks a couple of features which aren't available at all or cost big money (carbon for example).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    Porsche 911 GT3 Touring looking cool as ice...

    1521573504145image.jpeg

     Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    Nice one!


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    Removes wing, adds giant decal. Nice.

    "Hey everyone, look at me. It's a Porsche in case you didn't know now that I took my big wing off."


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    noone1:

    Removes wing, adds giant decal. Nice.

    "Hey everyone, look at me. It's a Porsche in case you didn't know now that I took my big wing off."

    Fortunately, we live in a world where it is up to the customer to decide... Smiley

    ...even on a 1973 Porsche 911 RS -- there is plenty of historic precedent for Porsche decals! Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Porsche 911 GT3 Touring looking cool as ice...

    1521573504145image.jpeg

     Smiley

    what colour is that?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    Looks like graphite blue.


    --

    White 991.2 GT3, production week 10


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017)

    R vs GT3

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WJjqK4slr0


     
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