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    Re: 992 GT3

    As Walliser always says - 1 less than the total demand indecision


    Re: 992 GT3

    This nonsense is why I am no longer buying new Porsches.  I'll keep my older 911, and service it with a strong independent.  But my real money has moved to Ferrari.

     

     


    Re: 992 GT3

    A few months ago I noted a Turbo S at my dealer for $364k.  Unless they have a typo on their website, it is now $464k.  I'd say that's Ferrari money, but I'm scared to guess what those are going for.


    Re: 992 GT3

    MSRP


    Re: 992 GT3

    Is the markup only happening in the USA and the UK where there are large number of buyers compared to number of cars.  I moved to Cyprus about 6 years ago, and had to sell my GT3 prior to moving cause the costs to import it were insane.  Prior to that I had an excellent relationship with my dealer in Lebanon as I've purchased over 10 cars from them including 4 GT models. Never once have I paid above MRSP in fact I even got a very small discount for being such a loyal customer even on the GT models (3 GT3's and 1 RS).  Actually I remember when I ordered the RS, and had my GT3, I was in the process of moving, I received multiple offers to buy my slot from 3rd party dealers, and out of respect I told my dealership (friends), and they told me that If don't want the car it has to go to the next person on their list without premium at MRSP, and if I sold the slot to a third party I would no longer be in their good graces.  I gave the slot up, was refunded and it went to the next guy on the list who I happened to know, again at MRSP.  There are some good and fair dealers out there, who still care about long term relationships and doing things correctly.  They are few, but they still exist. Till today every purchase made at that dealership I remember extremely well.

    I've been porsche less since, and It was only until Feb I decided to try my luck with the local dealer for a GT3 allocation (first car I buy from them) and I landed a slot, again without paying anything over MRSP.  There were some silly shenanigans after I paid my 35% deposit, which were completely ludicrous and un professional, but it was all sorted out at the end (after some heated exchanges) and I expect the car next month. Those are just my experiences....


    Re: 992 GT3

    I realized I was dyslexic above I meant to type MSRP.

     


    Re: 992 GT3

    bobr:

    Any idea on how many GT4RSs Porsche is planning to build? Will Porsche limit production or stuff the dealers as they did with the last generation?

    AP mentioned that they will build the car for 2.5 years (or something like that). Be patient was his advice.

     

    Source: https://youtu.be/otr4QLDe9zY


    Re: 992 GT3

    I’m a little embarrassed at how well my dealer has been treating me.   No ADM and no games played with the waiting list.  I have had horrible experiences in the past with other marques (Ferrari was the worst) as well as other Porsche dealers, but the current Porsche dealer has been excellent.  I recently gave him a gift (after my deal was already done at the correct price), because I know he could have made much more money operating in a less honest manner.  I felt good about that (not a quid pro quo), because he deserved it.


    --

    22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: 992 GT3

    ^ Good to hear that there is hope.  👍. (Too bad that the US cars don’t get the Club Sport package - otherwise I would have asked you to introduce me to your sales guy :-)


    Re: 992 GT3

    Kobalt:

    ^ Good to hear that there is hope.  👍. (Too bad that the US cars don’t get the Club Sport package - otherwise I would have asked you to introduce me to your sales guy :-)

    Smiley  Yeah, I sure wish we could get Clubsport here…


    --

    22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: 992 GT3

    Grant, are you dealing with Shawn in Denver? If so, he's the best.


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: 992 GT3

    nberry:

    Grant, are you dealing with Shawn in Denver? If so, he's the best.

    No, I don’t know Shawn.  He’s the one that moved to Denver from San Diego?


    --

    22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: 992 GT3

    Yes. 


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: 992 GT3

    Grant:

    I’m a little embarrassed at how well my dealer has been treating me.   No ADM and no games played with the waiting list.  I have had horrible experiences in the past with other marques (Ferrari was the worst) as well as other Porsche dealers, but the current Porsche dealer has been excellent.  I recently gave him a gift (after my deal was already done at the correct price), because I know he could have made much more money operating in a less honest manner.  I felt good about that (not a quid pro quo), because he deserved it.

     

    You should introduce your dealer and sales guy to Leawood. Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: 992 GT3

    Whoopsy:
    Grant:

    I’m a little embarrassed at how well my dealer has been treating me.   No ADM and no games played with the waiting list.  I have had horrible experiences in the past with other marques (Ferrari was the worst) as well as other Porsche dealers, but the current Porsche dealer has been excellent.  I recently gave him a gift (after my deal was already done at the correct price), because I know he could have made much more money operating in a less honest manner.  I felt good about that (not a quid pro quo), because he deserved it.

     

    You should introduce your dealer and sales guy to Leawood. Smiley

    I would, but they are not taking out of state clients at the moment.


    --

    22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: 992 GT3

    CGX car nut:

    Everyone seems to miss one point. Dealers are getting away with markups because there are customers willing to pay that amount for the car.  Without the demand, prices would adjust downward to meet demand. We know that the real market for high performance cars is relatively small; however, there’s a perception amongst speculators that the apparent market is much larger.  Until that side bursts, dealers will freely add an additional markup.  At this point the abnormal profit either accumulates at the dealers or with the speculators.  

    Blame these type of customers (flippers) to make the transaction look legit. By end of the day, they have no interest in the car, the money must be clean when they want to get rid of the car with an official invoice  Smiley

    https://www.legit.ng/1138696-hushpuppi-source-wealth-revealed.html

    Anyone remember Kim dotcom ?

    There are quite few of them out there that keep on travelling and sell everything and return with a new look and start all over again.

     


    Re: 992 GT3

    Excerpt from an article by Karl Ludvigsen from the "Automotive News" archives:

    "A generation ago, Porsche tried to replace its U.S. dealerships with a new distribution network. To the company's surprise, the dealers' legal muscle prevailed.

    Porsche's U.S. sales were rising and its profits were booming in the early 1980s. The company wanted more direct control of its place in the U.S. luxury market.

    In January 1984, the 323 U.S. dealers who sold Porsche cars learned that the company would not renew its contract with Volkswagen of America Inc., which had imported Porsches since 1969. As of September, the dealers were told, they no longer would get Porsches from VW.

    The other shoe dropped Feb. 15, when Porsche executives met in Reno, Nev., with the automaker's dealers. Porsche said it had set up a new company, Porsche Cars North America Inc. It would be headed by a former U.S. head of BMW, Jack Cook.

    A subsidiary of the new company, Porsche Centers Inc., would set up 40 stores across the United States to sell vehicles at retail and also distribute them to dealers, said Porsche AG CEO Peter Schutz.

    "Each will be from a cookie cutter," Schutz told the startled dealers, "with a standard building of about 22,000 square feet on around two acres of land. Each will be in an industrial park near a major airport." All of the centers were to be up and running by the beginning of 1985, he said.

    Porsche would spend about $25 million to build the centers, Schutz said. In addition, Schutz and Cook hoped to attract investment in the centers by existing dealers and wealthy Porsche owners."


    --

    2015 Jet Black TT


    Re: 992 GT3

    Ferrari manages dealer markups very well. Maybe Porsche should consider doing the same. Also, It may be time for Porsche to try again to own their retail outlets. Tesla does it.

    BTW, I visited the dealer today and they had a GT3 on the showroom floor. It has $60,000 in options with a MSRP of $222,000. The dealer added on a markup of $120,000. Total cost $342,000! The salesperson told me they had sold four with the $120,000 markup. There is a lot of stupid money chasing these cars.

    What is interesting they had a 2021 911S with a wing on the floor and it was almost undistinguishable from the GT3. The S had an MSRP of $160,000 and a dealer markup go $30,000 for a total of $190,000!

     


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: 992 GT3

    NSXER:

    Excerpt from an article by Karl Ludvigsen from the "Automotive News" archives:

    "A generation ago, Porsche tried to replace its U.S. dealerships with a new distribution network. To the company's surprise, the dealers' legal muscle prevailed.

    Porsche's U.S. sales were rising and its profits were booming in the early 1980s. The company wanted more direct control of its place in the U.S. luxury market.

    In January 1984, the 323 U.S. dealers who sold Porsche cars learned that the company would not renew its contract with Volkswagen of America Inc., which had imported Porsches since 1969. As of September, the dealers were told, they no longer would get Porsches from VW.

    The other shoe dropped Feb. 15, when Porsche executives met in Reno, Nev., with the automaker's dealers. Porsche said it had set up a new company, Porsche Cars North America Inc. It would be headed by a former U.S. head of BMW, Jack Cook.

    A subsidiary of the new company, Porsche Centers Inc., would set up 40 stores across the United States to sell vehicles at retail and also distribute them to dealers, said Porsche AG CEO Peter Schutz.

    "Each will be from a cookie cutter," Schutz told the startled dealers, "with a standard building of about 22,000 square feet on around two acres of land. Each will be in an industrial park near a major airport." All of the centers were to be up and running by the beginning of 1985, he said.

    Porsche would spend about $25 million to build the centers, Schutz said. In addition, Schutz and Cook hoped to attract investment in the centers by existing dealers and wealthy Porsche owners."

    The strength of the U.S. automobile dealers is not something to reckon with as illustrated by my friend.  His dealer group is within the top 50th dealership group by size with dealerships in the Midwest and Florida.  He has several planes including a Dassault Falcon 7X in his fleet as he travels between his multiple homes.  He uses the Falcon, for example, as most people use their car. 


    Re: 992 GT3

    Renderings of what a street rsr might look like:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CWwHjSgN3ky/?utm_medium=copy_link

    665C7C33-34AD-4B65-A3C7-7112A9CE11B1.jpeg
    C5904ECE-B04E-432D-A722-23B5D4BF1264.jpeg
    965655D7-43D8-45F8-9A25-1AD19EEC8263.jpeg
    C7FE950A-08DF-4F73-9D18-265DC44E7A6A.jpeg


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: 992 GT3

    I love it, but as a motorsport fan, I'm used to the shape/look.


    Re: 992 GT3

    Joost:

    Renderings of what a street rsr might look like:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CWwHjSgN3ky/?utm_medium=copy_link

    665C7C33-34AD-4B65-A3C7-7112A9CE11B1.jpeg
    C5904ECE-B04E-432D-A722-23B5D4BF1264.jpeg
    965655D7-43D8-45F8-9A25-1AD19EEC8263.jpeg
    C7FE950A-08DF-4F73-9D18-265DC44E7A6A.jpeg

     

    LOL, that's a big fail for 'rendering'.

    More like a street rsr race car.

    Ground clearance fail. The rear quarter window fail. fender fail. 

    Car will be too wide legally without clearance lights like on pickups. 

    Vented rear quarter windows will be a big fail for road car, it's useless and pointless. 911 race car needs it to vent the interior, nothing more.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: 992 GT3

    (English subtitles available)


    Re: 992 GT3

    Pretty impressive that the GT3 beats the STO around the track with 130hp less and much less torque (and roughly half the price in USA).


    --

     

    22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: 992 GT3

    It seems like the STO is let down by it’s tires from all the reviews.  The Bridgestones just aren’t up to par with latest sticky rubber.


    Re: 992 GT3

    lexs4:

    It seems like the STO is let down by it’s tires from all the reviews.  The Bridgestones just aren’t up to par with latest sticky rubber.

    Surprised that they aren't using Trofeo R's or another proper Italian tire Smiley


    --

    22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: 992 GT3

    Does someone know what tires the STO had in that review? The Race? I was actually quite happy with it, even at lower temps BUT maybe that was the problem: Drove a Cup 2 on one occasion at around 13°C and it was pretty slippery.

    So far, I think that Michelin makes the best track tires for street legal cars and since Porsche and Lamborghini are working together in certain domains, I am surprised to see that Lamborghini chose Bridgestone for their STO semi-slick. I remember Porsche not having that great of an experience with Bridgestone semi-slicks for the Turbo S. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: 992 GT3

    Grant:

    Pretty impressive that the GT3 beats the STO around the track with 130hp less and much less torque (and roughly half the price in USA).


    --

     

    22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

    Huracan Performante...1:09,433. 4 years old car. Smiley

    I don't know however which part of the Vairano track that was because the time difference is huge, so I guess not comparable. Smiley

    30-11-_2021_16-16-43.jpg


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

     


    Re: 992 GT3

    RC:

     

    So far, I think that Michelin makes the best track tires for street legal cars and since Porsche and Lamborghini are working together in certain domains, I am surprised to see that Lamborghini chose Bridgestone for their STO semi-slick. I remember Porsche not having that great of an experience with Bridgestone semi-slicks for the Turbo S. Smiley

    The  991 GT3 or GT3 RS has always been delivered from the factory with either Michelin or Bridgestone and now Pirelli on the 992. It was random which tire you got. 


    Re: 992 GT3

    RC:

    Does someone know what tires the STO had in that review? The Race? I was actually quite happy with it, even at lower temps BUT maybe that was the problem: Drove a Cup 2 on one occasion at around 13°C and it was pretty slippery.

    Huracán STO: Bridgestone Potenza Race

    Black Series: Cup 2 R

    GT3: Cup 2 R

     


     
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