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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Agreed. For less than $150k, I can't think of a better all rounder than a 911. For $200k, the GT department is the answer for those who want a great driving experience. I myself made the jump from the 991.1 S to the GT3T, and still have both as I can't find a better daily driver.

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Agreed with the above 3 members that 911 is the best all rounder sport car out there.  Daily drive everywhere, no problem to park anywhere, and then go to track.

    Yes, they are getting expensive, but people keep buying them.  Some ex-911 owners jumped ship, but a lot more new drivers have boarded.

    BTW, is this a McLaren thread?


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    spudgun:
    Fast forward to today, a 911 GTS is boring, sounds like a vacuum cleaner or no noise at all, tech is behind the most advanced ones, design is at best boring and at most ugly with the black bar in the rear or completely unoriginal, rear seats are no bigger than before despite the car becoming large and fat and the prices have become astronomical with terrible residual values. HP is far behind the competition that has moved further with things like carbon tubs and such. The emotion and coolness part has moved to the GTx line with a big increase in number of car produced and a much more docile vehicles and some remnant of perceived value because of high demand from speculators.

    68993469-0195-4EA5-9871-22CCBA885133.jpeg

    😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    crayphile:
    RC:
     

    After my year-long search for a holy grail (do it all) in the sports car segment, I came to realize that you need to have at least two cars to be happy. Perfect would actually be four (sportscar, family car, cabriolet and off-roader).

    Precisely-  nothing ticks all the boxes and nor should it. However, the thing that comes closet is a 911.

    Yes, the 911 comes very close to that and this is probably the reason I hanged on that long...

    I got a taste of the V10 engine and it ruined me for the 911. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    Carlos from Spain:
     

    The 911 is not the best at everything, there are sportscars that are better at something or other (sound, exclusivity, looks, acceleration, infotainment, etc) and if that specific aspect is what you are looking for, then the 911 is not the best for you, but the 911 is the best allrounder package and with some unique qualities and emphasis on driving feel and realworld performance and reliability. That is why it is so successful and each gen more than the previous.

    100% spot on Smiley

    There is not a single car on this planet that can compete with a 911 as an overall package. Simple fact. Best all day sports car you can buy. I will beet most other cars most of the time.

    Thank god you didn't say supercar because I would have disagreed. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
    MKSGR:
    Carlos from Spain:
     

    The 911 is not the best at everything, there are sportscars that are better at something or other (sound, exclusivity, looks, acceleration, infotainment, etc) and if that specific aspect is what you are looking for, then the 911 is not the best for you, but the 911 is the best allrounder package and with some unique qualities and emphasis on driving feel and realworld performance and reliability. That is why it is so successful and each gen more than the previous.

    100% spot on Smiley

    There is not a single car on this planet that can compete with a 911 as an overall package. Simple fact. Best all day sports car you can buy. I will beet most other cars most of the time.

    Thank god you didn't say supercar because I would have disagreed. Smiley Smiley

    The 992 turbo s will probably have the performance of a supercar - bit still it is a sports car for daily use Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I priced a low spec 991 C4 GTS and it was $171k (no PCCB or extra leather option/carbon/aluminum option). A 992 would be $180k, I will not even dare price a TTS...

    The 911 is still a nice package, but the compromises are getting bigger with every generation, which pushes people to look at other alternatives even if they have to spend more. $150k is not a hard line in the sand, once you start spending that kind of money on a toy, it is fluff money anyway. On the low end, the F Pace and the AMG are also very nice packages. At the same level, the R8 looks like a much more fun car. The Vantage is much more beautiful and unique.

    But the biggest competition for the regular 911 are the GT line which is getting more and more daily driver friendly. That is the biggest compromise IMHO as the GTx are much more fun and driver oriented. As of today, I would not buy a regular 911 when I know that what I expect in a 911 today is what the GT cars offer, not the regular ones. The fact that you cannot even buy a GT car today is just an insult to the costumers, enough to decide not to spend a single cent on such a company.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    The Porsche GT cars are phenomenal. The regular Porsche line is meh. I would never buy a regular Porsche again. It’s either a GT model or I’ll try another brand. 


    --

    Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    SciFrog:
    But the biggest competition for the regular 911 are the GT line which is getting more and more daily driver friendly. That is the biggest compromise IMHO as the GTx are much more fun and driver oriented. As of today, I would not buy a regular 911 when I know that what I expect in a 911 today is what the GT cars offer, not the regular ones. The fact that you cannot even buy a GT car today is just an insult to the costumers, enough to decide not to spend a single cent on such a company.

    This is spot on and must be a not insignificant factor in the rise of Mclaren who have swept up many disillusioned Porsche GT customers.


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    2018 McLaren 720S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Porsche has handled the allocation process of the GT cars and special editions very poorly, with flippers getting cars instead of long time or loyal customers, we have many examples in this forum, totally unacceptable if you ask me, and they deserve to lose those customers in favor of other makers like mclaren who are b making very good sportscars. I realise it is not easy to control the allocations because greedy dealers being part of the problem, but they should of made it a priority instead of looking the other way...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Get rid of the dealers. They are “useless greedy incompetent” leeches that syphon huge profits for the manufacturers. Porsche should control the whole car buying experience and service so it can be as top notch as what the brand is or aspires to be. Car buying in the USA is rated one of the worst customer experience in the USA, along with airlines. That said, some do it right, my McLaren/Aston dealer has been fantastic all these years. The others, I just wish I had never set a foot there, Ferrari being on top of the list due to their lying, sheer service incompetence and horrible treatment of customers.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Carlos from Spain:

    Porsche has handled the allocation process of the GT cars and special editions very poorly, with flippers getting cars instead of long time or loyal customers, we have many examples in this forum, totally unacceptable if you ask me, and they deserve to lose those customers in favor of other makers like mclaren who are b making very good sportscars. I realise it is not easy to control the allocations because greedy dealers being part of the problem, but they should of made it a priority instead of looking the other way...

     

    Same with Ferrari. Most of the TDFs went to new buyers which they end up selling/flipping. Even youtubers maneged to get them. 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    SciFrog:

    I priced a low spec 991 C4 GTS and it was $171k (no PCCB or extra leather option/carbon/aluminum option). A 992 would be $180k, I will not even dare price a TTS...

    The 911 is still a nice package, but the compromises are getting bigger with every generation, which pushes people to look at other alternatives even if they have to spend more. $150k is not a hard line in the sand, once you start spending that kind of money on a toy, it is fluff money anyway. On the low end, the F Pace and the AMG are also very nice packages. At the same level, the R8 looks like a much more fun car. The Vantage is much more beautiful and unique.

     

    Sure, the pricing is quite aggressive, even risky, maybe. But then the cars they sell are very competitive (still). For example, I love the anticipated 992 turbo s convertible. And even if I think hard there is not a true competitor for this car.... The McLaren 720s Spider is very attractive, but how often could I use it? The turbo I use on a daily basis... The Tribute Spider will be excellent, of course. But again, how often would I use it. In bad weather etc.... An AMG or M5? This would clearly be a compromise. Nothing nice about it except for lower price and more interior space (that I don't need). All in all the 911 is still an amazing package Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Their racing team still has a mountain to climb though...unbelievable Indy 500 story, amateur hour:

    https://apnews.com/a8653967a9714ac7a9a3ba576f712fff


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Don't get me started, the amateurish unexplainable successive collection of mistakes they did is unreal, one of the most embarrassing displays in indy history...

    If Alonso, the biggest draw of the race, comes back at the next Indy with McLaren again, when he can sign for any team he wants like Penske, he deserves for it to happen again to him... I cannot think of a driver in the history of Motorsport consistently worse at piking teams.
    -- 

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    spudgun:

    Their racing team still has a mountain to climb though...unbelievable Indy 500 story, amateur hour:

    https://apnews.com/a8653967a9714ac7a9a3ba576f712fff

    Absolutely extraordinary Smiley, you couldn’t make this stuff up.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    There are times when I would say a Porsche GT car is over rated.

    GT3, yes, a perfectly fine street car that is capable on the track.

    But the RSs, GT3RS and GT2RS, are honestly too hardcore for street duties. It will make the trip from home to track and back, but for daily usage it's pointless.

    A Turbo S, while not a GT car, will be perfect capable as a all around car. Can be driven in any weather year round and it is comfortable and easy to get in and out of.

    It will also perform on track pretty much on par with a GT3.

    IMG_0050.JPG

    Spent the weekend tracking the Turbo S. smiley

     


    --

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I agree, I always loved the 911 Turbo S but Porsche just listened too much to their business customers (fast but quiet) and not enough to their weekend fun car customers who also want something for the heart, not only the brain. Smiley

    Why not build a 911 Turbo RS or 911 Turbo R or whatever? Sad.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:

    I agree, I always loved the 911 Turbo S but Porsche just listened too much to their business customers (fast but quiet) and not enough to their weekend fun car customers who also want something for the heart, not only the brain. Smiley

    Why not build a 911 Turbo RS or 911 Turbo R or whatever? Sad.


    I don't think so. The Turbo/Turbo S are the perfect version of the German sportscar. I say sportcar, not supercar. A Turbo is no supercar, it's a sportscar with supercar performance, but it remains a sportscar with all ups and downs. On the downside a Turbo won't give you and all bystanders the excitement of an Italian or British mid-engined car. But the advantage is a true daily drivability, being fast but under the radar, which can be nice in some occasions and that you can leave the car unattended in most situations.


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Rossi:
    RC:

    I agree, I always loved the 911 Turbo S but Porsche just listened too much to their business customers (fast but quiet) and not enough to their weekend fun car customers who also want something for the heart, not only the brain. Smiley

    Why not build a 911 Turbo RS or 911 Turbo R or whatever? Sad.


    I don't think so. The Turbo/Turbo S are the perfect version of the German sportscar. I say sportcar, not supercar. A Turbo is no supercar, it's a sportscar with supercar performance, but it remains a sportscar with all ups and downs. On the downside a Turbo won't give you and all bystanders the excitement of an Italian or British mid-engined car. But the advantage is a true daily drivability, being fast but under the radar, which can be nice in some occasions and that you can leave the car unattended in most situations.

    The stealthy character of the Turbo S is definitely what makes it attractive to many purchasers.  Few cars can combine utility with performance like the entire 911 series.  Even the Audi R8 and the AMG GT fall way short in that daily usability when called upon to carry a bit of luggage or deal with less than perfect road conditions.  

    As an aside and an example of that usability, last Friday evening I discovered that one of my favorite backroads underwent an extreme makeover with the complete removal of the tarmac.  The car handled that dramatic change in road surface at a slightly elevated speed with aplomb and no drama.  


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    nberry:

    The Porsche GT cars are phenomenal. The regular Porsche line is meh. I would never buy a regular Porsche again. It’s either a GT model or I’ll try another brand. 

    Indeed. The ordinary models are akin to boxed wine while the 718 series should be found somewhere in the wine cooler aisle. Porsche has lost its fun factor, unless you count the number of Korean dry cleaner owners wives learning how to drive their new Cayennes in Los Angeles traffic....Just saying...

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    well Turbo S took 3 people (7 year old daughter) and all the luggage

    franceTT.jpg


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    BjoernB:

    well Turbo S took 3 people (7 year old daughter) and all the luggage

    franceTT.jpg

    Nice Villa and a nice, practical golf cart


    --

    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    For an alternative view (and I think I've posted this before) I bought a new 991.2 Turbo S and found it quite anodyne sure it was an easy fast driving and the steering was very responsive but it didn't have real feel and was way too civilised to give me my sports car hit it felt like a stodgy Audi, I sold it after 750 miles and bought a Mclaren 570S which ticked all those missed boxes and more screaming to 8000+rpm with the sharpest helm I'd ever experienced including my 997GT2 which has full Cup rose jointing.

    The 4 seats is the only big selling point of the 911 IMO and of course the 4WD if you live in snowy countries but in reality a good set of winter tyres on any car will go a long way to offset this.

    I may be a slightly anachronistic odd ball however as I still don't really like the auto boxes, sure they can be exciting but as I get older I am doing less miles and do miss the manual gear change, is seems the clutch drivetrain interaction is quite fundamental for my driving enjoyment.


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    2018 McLaren 720S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    All the luggage? Smiley

    So your wife doesn't have a shoe fetish? One in a million. Smiley Smiley Smiley

    The best 911 for traveling is actually the 911 Cab. The reason is simple: You can open the top and use the rear seats for three of larger(!) suitcases. Easy to load in and out when the roof is open. You cannot do that in the Coupe, so I always recommend the Cab for couples without kids because the rear seats are amazing for luggage.

    This is how we traveled to Italy...R8 for driving fun, 911 Cab as transport mule (and convertible for my wife). Smiley

    yR-0MvR5.jpeg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    TB993tt:

    For an alternative view (and I think I've posted this before) I bought a new 991.2 Turbo S and found it quite anodyne sure it was an easy fast driving and the steering was very responsive but it didn't have real feel and was way too civilised to give me my sports car hit it felt like a stodgy Audi, I sold it after 750 miles and bought a Mclaren 570S which ticked all those missed boxes and more screaming to 8000+rpm with the sharpest helm I'd ever experienced including my 997GT2 which has full Cup rose jointing.

    The 4 seats is the only big selling point of the 911 IMO and of course the 4WD if you live in snowy countries but in reality a good set of winter tyres on any car will go a long way to offset this.

    I may be a slightly anachronistic odd ball however as I still don't really like the auto boxes, sure they can be exciting but as I get older I am doing less miles and do miss the manual gear change, is seems the clutch drivetrain interaction is quite fundamental for my driving enjoyment.

    +1  I had 991.2 Turbo loaner for a couple weeks at Nürburgring, Spa, and also just touring around and it was very fast (significantly faster down the straight at the Ring than GT3), but not very inspiring.  I also think a good portion of this was due to the automatic transmission and the ability to just press the throttle and let the AWD computers do the difficult work...


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    "Chris Harris Drives: the McLaren Senna and 650S GT3" 

    (31 May 2019)

    How does McLaren’s best-ever track-day car, the Senna, compare to a proper racer? Luckily, we’ve got a 650S GT3 on hand to find out. Time for some laps at Silverstone...

    1559337610612image.jpeg

    Video Link:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-kK2cWDcWU

    1559339721211image.jpeg

    ...thanks and all due credit to Chris Harris!  1552170150971image.gif


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Despite the extra HP and trick aero, the Senna is 7 seconds slower than the GT3 car. And the Senna is really fast already for a road car.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:

    Despite the extra HP and trick aero, the Senna is 7 seconds slower than the GT3 car. And the Senna is really fast already for a road car.

     

    GT3 is on slicks though.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    crayphile:
    Whoopsy:

    Despite the extra HP and trick aero, the Senna is 7 seconds slower than the GT3 car. And the Senna is really fast already for a road car.

     

    GT3 is on slicks though.

     

    Exactly, and the suspensions are specifically calibrated for slicks. Purpose built race car to be used on a track.

    For all the performance of a Senna, a track is the only place to even half way use them, but when it gets on a track, a dedicated track car is that much better. 

    All these high performance high power road cars are getting silly and pointless. 


    --

     

     


     
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