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    Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    I know there has been a long thread on Ferrari F430 V P Turbo. Nick is in favour of the F and obvious RC and a few others are for P. My question is this, coming from the consensus and general review, it seems to me that P cars offer excellent long term reliability. I have little experience with Ferrari and I know a 00 360 Modena sits in my garage. My neighbour did have a few complains about his gearbox. His car had many problems as he said but of course I wouldn't be able to provide details. This is probably unfair to post on a Porsche forum but I am more for a Porsche 997 then a Ferrari on a few factors. First is relia bility and second is ownership costs and it seems to me P would win out in both cases. I do want one that I can commute to work daily as well as enjoy but would be quite upset if it is in the shop every other month or so. I think the 430 has improved a lot but wondering what inputs are like on the 2 brands. I mean they both make excellent sport mobiles.

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    If you want just 1 car buy a Porsche..
    if you can do all your jobs with a smaller car (which is better in long term reliability than porsche) then buy a F430... Also plz take under consideration how much more money you will loose if you buy a new 997tt now and sell it in 3 years instead of buying a F430...

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    I've never actually seen a Ferrari used as a daily driver in this part of the world. Whether that's due to reliability or something else I can't say.

    On the other hand, there are lots of Porsches (like mine) which are daily cars.

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Regarding reliability, with the 430 being compared to the 911 my guess would be they are about the same. In the mid 90's Ferrari began to recognize that reliability was a serious issue they needed to address and they started the process in earnest with the 360. With each succeeding year, the 360 got better.

    With the 430 the car is as good and reliable as any other high performance sport car including Porsche

    Regarding cost of ownership, Forbes magazine a US financial magazine just listed the most expensive cars to own. here is the list;

    Mercedes-Benz CL-Class
    Mercedes-Benz SL-Class
    Porsche 911
    Mercedes-Benz S-Class
    BMW 7 Series
    Mercedes-Benz G-Class
    Jaguar XK
    Land Rover Ranger Rover HSE
    Acura NSX
    Dodge Viper SRT10

    Also, Nick in Athens indicated the Porsche depreciation is substantial and the 430 sells above MSRP.

    Finally, regarding driving a daily car, I have always puzzled as to why anyone would wnat to drive any high performance sport car to work whether it is a Ferrari, Porsche or Corvette. These cars are made to be driven and enjoyed in their proper venue. Sitting in traffic is not what these cars were designed for.

    Having said this, if you insist on a daily performance car the Porsche is an adequate choice. The Ferrari is too much of a thoroughbred to be hitched to a wagon to be carrying someone from one destination to another. A Porsche is better suited for that purpose.

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The Ferrari is too much of a thoroughbred to be hitched to a wagon to be carrying someone from one destination to another. A Porsche is better suited for that purpose.


    You always manage to end a thought on a narrow minded note I wager quite a number of us could easily have one of each should we be inclined...Personally I have zero interest in F430's..and to avoid being misquoted I have anything against them...Ferrari is a wonderful machine...but I could have either and ferraris don't turn me on at all... Thats why I am on the 997TT Board...

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    while the f430 may have brought ferrari reliability up a notch, i don't think many would agree that is the equal of the 911.
    forbes surveys are not exactly j.d. power and assoc. type surveys.
    just site visitors selecting multiple choice. ferrari probably wasnt even listed as a choice.
    they also did a ten sexiest car survey that did not include ferrari in the outcome.
    j.d. powers survey rated porsche high.
    i've always been puzzled by someone that would buy an expensive high performance car, pay to insure it, and let it sit in the garage most of the time instead of enjoying it as a daily driver.
    but then again, i don't sit in traffic.
    but as nick indicated in his last couple sentences, the porsche would be more reliable as a daily driver.
    but i would have no qualms about using an f430 as my daily driver.
    i'm sure i would make it to my destination most of the time!

    jeff

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari


    I drive hundreds of kilometres to work every weekend on unrestricted autobahns and track my car at the NBR mid-week.

    Could an F430 cope with a 1000 km a week (including through snow) without substantial depreciation and repairs, track humiliation and getting stuck in snow?

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    sorry I meant.."haven't"

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Regarding reliability, with the 430 being compared to the 911 my guess would be they are about the same. In the mid 90's Ferrari began to recognize that reliability was a serious issue they needed to address and they started the process in earnest with the 360. With each succeeding year, the 360 got better.

    With the 430 the car is as good and reliable as any other high performance sport car including Porsche

    Regarding cost of ownership, Forbes magazine a US financial magazine just listed the most expensive cars to own. here is the list;

    Mercedes-Benz CL-Class
    Mercedes-Benz SL-Class
    Porsche 911
    Mercedes-Benz S-Class
    BMW 7 Series
    Mercedes-Benz G-Class
    Jaguar XK
    Land Rover Ranger Rover HSE
    Acura NSX
    Dodge Viper SRT10

    Also, Nick in Athens indicated the Porsche depreciation is substantial and the 430 sells above MSRP.

    Finally, regarding driving a daily car, I have always puzzled as to why anyone would wnat to drive any high performance sport car to work whether it is a Ferrari, Porsche or Corvette. These cars are made to be driven and enjoyed in their proper venue. Sitting in traffic is not what these cars were designed for.

    Having said this, if you insist on a daily performance car the Porsche is an adequate choice. The Ferrari is too much of a thoroughbred to be hitched to a wagon to be carrying someone from one destination to another. A Porsche is better suited for that purpose.



    Where's the Nick block. I've enough of his silly posts and that banana colored expresso mobile.

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Quote:
    AUM said:

    I drive hundreds of kilometres to work every weekend on unrestricted autobahns and track my car at the NBR mid-week.

    Could an F430 cope with a 1000 km a week (including through snow) without substantial depreciation and repairs, track humiliation and getting stuck in snow?


    Very funny indeed..:-)

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Quote:
    icon said:
    forbes surveys are not exactly j.d. power and assoc. type surveys.
    .....................................
    they also did a ten sexiest car survey that did not include ferrari in the outcome.




    Strange, Nick never commented on that one.

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    We should find a F360 owner that has at least 50K miles on his car (if such a car exists) and ask him about the cars reliability

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Shock for some maybe .. But Ferraris are perfectly reliable if they have the regular planned maintenance..and they have been for decades. The engines are well designed and well built.

    On the latest cars --- and this extends to all brands. It is seldom that the actual mechanical parts have problems
    but the electronics.

    The car you buy today has more computing power and more sensors than the Apollo Spacecraft and its LEM lunar landing vehicle combined.

    Keep in mind that the German, Italian or Swedish car that you buy today may have some very interesting software but the actual electrical subcomponents in the ECU and other controllers are likely sourced from South Korea, Taiwan or China. And sometimes things can go wrong from moisture, heat, vibration or a microscopic crack on a IC chip.

    FWIW I know of one Ferrari 348 wich is used as a daily driver and now has approx 120,000 miles on it with only
    regular servicing. Compression is perfect and so is its
    manual gearbox.

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Devo in case you missed this post from the Boxster forum have a look. What color is your car?

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1784

    I did not buy my 430 to drive to work, sit in traffic or drive in snow. There are many cars better suited for that task and much cheaper. Also, if I want a track car, I would get myself an Elise or something similar and have a hell of lot more fun for a lot less money than a TT that is heavily modified and on resale require the owner to get grab his ankles for someone to buy it.

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Quote:
    devo said:
    Where's the Nick block. I've enough of his silly posts and that banana colored expresso mobile.



    Its so funny, haha.
    He must think that he is smart enough to pass remarks about other people's posts without any relevant contribution.

    I drive my P-car on a daily basis and the F-car shall be a daily commute too.

    FWIW, Ferrari reliability have improved satisfactory over the past years with new model introductions. It remains to be seen if the F430 could ever hold its own candle to the Porsches. IMHO, even after factoring the production volume of both manufacturers and consensus from various forums, it appears that there are comparatively lesser complaints & negative issues with the F430 todate.

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Regarding reliability, with the 430 being compared to the 911 my guess would be they are about the same.



    Show me a picture of an 05 430 with 28k miles and I'll believe it. Otherwise, you're talkin' smack. Quit it. lol

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Have owned several new F's (430/360) and P's (996TTS/997S...and 997TT next mth)....and have several colleagues w/similar ownership patterns....and only keep any car for 12 mos or 15K mis max (whichever comes first)....what tech-oriented, ADD-afflicted guy wants to keep an obsolete and/or scuffed-up piece of mobile tech beyond 12 mos anyway????

    Anecdotal consensus (there is no reliable hard data, except proprietary mfr warranty cost data ) is that F and P are roughly equally reliable for daily use....

    Many high-end car guys (who haven't chosen to retire ) prefer to commute daily via SL/CL or Turbo, simply b/c an annually new, daily commuter F often elicits an "envy tax" at office, even in jaded places like Greenwich/SF....

    What will be interesting to observe is whether this same group of jaded guys ends up making 599 their daily SUV later this yr, over 997TT and CL63

    599 may offer a low enough profile (and a 28gall fuel tank, Bluetooth, etc) to make it the arguably best-balanced high-end daily commuter car avail...esp if one ignores its active/passive safety engineering vs 997TT/CL63...and focuses on the F "passion"/exhaust note/fast, paddle-shifters tranny....

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    The Forbes reliability list specificially excluded true 'exotics' as their numbers just don't fall in line with those listed. In fact, the Porsche placement is a bit squewed because of the numbers coming in from GT2 owners, etc.

    Dan

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Finally, regarding driving a daily car, I have always puzzled as to why anyone would wnat to drive any high performance sport car to work whether it is a Ferrari, Porsche or Corvette. These cars are made to be driven and enjoyed in their proper venue. Sitting in traffic is not what these cars were designed for.



    Even in places like Lond/NYC w/onerous, incred slow traffic, would only commute via new, latest-tech S65 (or S550 4Matic in winter) or 997TT....IMO, no other cars on planet offer similar levels of active/passive safety

    An intelligently-chosen commuter car is a cheap "insurance policy" to minimize odds of injury in any accid/maximize odds of avoiding accid (&inevitable litig vs affluent), esp w/a competent, defensive driver, in a world full of drivers w/"less to lose" in life....

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Luckily not all of us have this daily commute.

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Shock for some maybe .. But Ferraris are perfectly reliable if they have the regular planned maintenance..and they have been for decades. The engines are well designed and well built.

    On the latest cars --- and this extends to all brands. It is seldom that the actual mechanical parts have problems
    but the electronics.





    Are you serious? I really love Ferrari. But a Ferrari is an Italian car. And like all Italian cars it has a build quality far from perfect.

    BTW: Ferrari does have lots of mechanical problems (gear box, engine), too. More than electronical defects, I would guess.

    Ferrari does offer more emotions and better desgin than Porsche. Porsche's are more efficient (in terms of speed) and more reliable.

    This has been so for the last decades and it is still the truth

    Anybody should buy either brand without knowing that simple rule of fact

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Finally, regarding driving a daily car, I have always puzzled as to why anyone would wnat to drive any high performance sport car to work whether it is a Ferrari, Porsche or Corvette. These cars are made to be driven and enjoyed in their proper venue. Sitting in traffic is not what these cars were designed for.



    If I sent you a video of me commuting to work you would be positively surprised

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    MK, I wasnt kidding. I actually know of several high mileage Ferraris that have been totally reliable. I also know of several BMW 7 series and also M96/M97 engined Porsches that have been bought back by the makers under our "lemon" laws and even one 7 series that went through 3 Transmissions in under 10,000 miles! So I give up on one country's cars being better or worse anymore. You pay your money and take your chances these days.

    I envy your commute!

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    thats not even fair to compare the reliability of porsche vs. ferrari.. the porsche is a TANK ,unbreakable . ferrari engines are very strong but the whole car is far from being reliable

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    MK, I wasnt kidding. I actually know of several high mileage Ferraris that have been totally reliable. I also know of several BMW 7 series and also M96/M97 engined Porsches that have been bought back by the makers under our "lemon" laws and even one 7 series that went through 3 Transmissions in under 10,000 miles! So I give up on one country's cars being better or worse anymore. You pay your money and take your chances these days.

    I envy your commute!



    My last Ferrari had:

    - inadeqately installed A/C cooling unit...
    - resulting in a brake-down of the engine cooling system
    - continued engine temperature problems
    - a broken clutch
    - a broken gear-box
    - car was towed 5 times

    A friend of mine had a severe engine damage in his Ferrari at around 250kph on the AB. He somehow managed to keep the car under control. Guess what the Ferrari dealer told him? He said: "Engine brake-downs can happen from time to time"

    Quality is not the reason to buy a Ferrari

    BTW: I also think that BMW has a very bad quality nowadays. Audi and Porsche are the quality leaders. At least in my personal ranking.

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    i find bmw's very well engineered and very reliable

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Forgive me for asking, but if you didn't get your car to have as your daily driver, and you didn't get it to have as your track racer, then what is your Ferrari convertible really good for? (Besides showing of and screaming to the world that "I have money!")

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Devo in case you missed this post from the Boxster forum have a look. What color is your car?

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1784

    I did not buy my 430 to drive to work, sit in traffic or drive in snow. There are many cars better suited for that task and much cheaper. Also, if I want a track car, I would get myself an Elise or something similar and have a hell of lot more fun for a lot less money than a TT that is heavily modified and on resale require the owner to get grab his ankles for someone to buy it.


    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Long term reliability??? Porsche, hands down.

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    Finally, regarding driving a daily car, I have always puzzled as to why anyone would wnat to drive any high performance sport car to work whether it is a Ferrari, Porsche or Corvette. These cars are made to be driven and enjoyed in their proper venue. Sitting in traffic is not what these cars were designed for.




    Totally disagree...I would always much rather be in my Porsche, than a "commuter" car when stuck in traffic. I enjoy the experience of driving my car at "any" speed

    Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

    Good question!I am a situational driver. I assess traffic and road conditions which in turn allows me to make use of my Ferrari at the right time.

    For an example, I know during the week traffic is very heavy and the use of my Ferrari is limited. This is especially so if I am driving to work.

     
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