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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    SportCarGroup:

    I've been at my dealer two days ago, and he showed me pictures five burned GT3's. The reason of the fire was engine fail...

    This sounds interesting (and worrying) but I wonder how a single dealer could have pictures of five different burned GT3s. Smiley Porsche certainly doesn't send any pictures around.  Smiley

    I cannot tell where he got the pics from, perhaps I should keep my mouth shut...  Smiley


    --


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    igirl:

    And Porsche should communicate ASAP!
    Especially for the actual owners...

    The previous communication about the delay was very very bad...

    This is true. Customers always want and need to know. Finding out through the press (or the internet), this is not how it should work. I would be p.ss.d too.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    igirl:

    And Porsche should communicate ASAP!
    Especially for the actual owners...

    The previous communication about the delay was very very bad...

     

    It is a great shame

    @Igirl a post called "My GT3" watting you in FA !


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Ya right.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Vegas should consider taking bet on what could be the problem; Bolts, Thermostat, plastic, cam sensors, engine, .....


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Seems the prices of the 'OLD' GT3 Mezger cars will stay high!  Are they any closer to using the 'NEW' engine in actual racing?  Which engine won Dayton for Porsche?  This should tell GT3 buyers everything they need to know.Smiley

    Really tickles me that Porsche is so picky about N rated tires and after market modifications and then they provide 190MPH cars which catch fire (perhaps at that speed!).  Penny wise and pound foolish.Smiley

    Yes I remember the RMS, ...  all the way back to pulled head studs on my POS '77 2.7 911 and blown airboxes on cold days.  Porsche has always had problems in production and then handled them poorly IMHO - unless there is a class action.  Given that I just replaced oil lines in my 07 Turbo to the tune of thousands because the stock plastic part was made like crap you would hope they would not have done the same or worse to the new GT3 - frustrating when you don't learn from past mistakes and understand an engines weaknesses. Smiley

    I am so glad I buy nice reliable, proven, depreciated and JUST AS FUN TO DRIVE used Porsches.  My kids, wife and I all drive new Hyundais - 100K, 10 year warranties and never any problems.Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Leawood911:

    Seems the prices of the 'OLD' GT3 Mezger cars will stay high!  Are they any closer to using the 'NEW' engine in actual racing?  Which engine won Dayton for Porsche?  This should tell GT3 buyer everything they need to know.

     

    I can only agree... Smiley

    Track oriented Porsche users don't have too many options these days Smiley Staying with the Mezger based 997 GT models seems the best option so far.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I have always heard that the famous and so incredible 997 GT3RS 4.0 had engine issues also... No? :)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    frayed:

    All indications on other forums point to bolts/bracket holding the dry sump external reservoir, which fail, cause oil to leak, and catch fire due to proximity of heat exchanger.

    This seems a plausible and certainly a repeated statement on porsche forums, but the wording of the porsche statement indicates that they are 'investigating' engine issues, and do not reference the fires nor the oil leakage issue.  While it seems to me, that PAG would have said, 'GT3's in a certain production run need to be retrofit with proper sump bolts to ensure against oil leakage' or the like, I suppose the rumor and the statement are not incongruous. 

    We all know that a minor part in a complex machine can cause disaster, and this appears the case here.

    Could not agree more!

    Porsche's silence on the matter is deafening. It raises red flags. What I don't understand is they haven't indicated which cars are affected. Many owners are still driving and tracking their cars. If there was a serious safety issue one would think Porsche would tell all owners to park their cars until which time they uncovered the problem and decided how to fix it. 

    My car does not get to San Diego until March 6th and I assume they will have the problem resolved by then.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    http://www.welt.de/motor/article124932004/Warum-ein-neuer-Porsche-anfaengt-zu-brennen.html

    http://www.focus.de/auto/news/mehrere-faelle-von-totalschaden-porsche-hat-ein-problem-mit-brennenden-gt3_id_3621610.html

    The mess started to get messier...and to be honest, if I would be a GT3 owner, I wouldn't be happy how this evolves right now.

    Sorry I have no translation, I have to go now (I'm in the office right now) and don't have the time. Maybe someone else can jump in? Thanks.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    the welt article confirma the swiss and italian burning on almost new cars. porsche representatives have flown in and collected the remains. Apparently there is a probable cause being found: it looks as if a piston rod broke in one cylinder. the car would habe failed to work in such a case anyway. but because there is some oil spilling happening in such a circumstance a fire erupts when the oil gets onto the engine. They further  think this problem is limited to a specific and limited number of cars. 

    Noch steht die Fehlerursache nicht zu 100 Prozent fest, aber derzeit sieht es nach Angaben des Sprechers so aus, als wäre in einem Zylinder das Pleuel gerissen. Pleuel verbinden die Kolben der Zylinder mit der Kurbelwelle, und über Kolben, Pleuel und Kurbelwelle wird die Kraft des Motors an den weiteren Antriebsstrang übertragen; diese Bauteile müssen also höchsten Belastungen standhalten.
     
    Keine Warnung an andere GT3-Besitzer
     
    Die betroffenen Autos wären in jedem Fall auch dann mit einem Motorschaden liegen geblieben, wenn sie nicht gebrannt hätten. Aber da in so einem Fall heißes Öl ausläuft, ist ein Motorbrand mit Übergreifen der Flammen auf den Rest des Fahrzeugs eben auch möglich.

     


    --

    turbolite


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Thanks! Do both articles reference the piston rod?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

    Thanks! Do both articles reference the piston rod?

    Yes, but FOCUS is only mentioning in reference to the WELT article. Apparently a Porsche spokesman only spoke to WELT and FOCUS is repeating the news.


    --

    Porsche 911 GT3 - Guards Red 997 MKII Clubsport


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Thanks! Is Welt a credible source?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Welt is a serious German daily newspaper, that has nothing to do with cars. The way the article is written and the fact that they reference the Porsche speaker makes it credible imo. Nothing 'sensationalistic' about the article...


    --

    turbolite


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    What I understand now is that we only know of the ones which caught fire!  There could be many more rod failures which did not result in fires!  Fire just happens to be the most visible outcome.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Leawood911:

    What I understand now is that we only know of the ones which caught fire!  There could be many more rod failures which did not result in fires!  Fire just happens to be the most visible outcome.

    Once again, everything about this points to an underdeveloped engine program, much like what happened during the transition from air-cooled to water-cooled.  Even the V8 engine program for the Cayenne was not without significant issues that are seldom found in cars at fractions of the price of Porsches.  

    This is inexcusable given the current state of testing regimes and technology and Porsche, and Volkswagen, Senior Management should be contemplating staff changes soon.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    What they explicitely mention in the article though is that they they believe this is a problem deriving from a defective batch. This would rather point to an issue at a supplier...


    --

    turbolite


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:

    Seems the prices of the 'OLD' GT3 Mezger cars will stay high!  Are they any closer to using the 'NEW' engine in actual racing?  Which engine won Dayton for Porsche?  This should tell GT3 buyer everything they need to know.

     

    I can only agree... Smiley

    Track oriented Porsche users don't have too many options these days Smiley Staying with the Mezger based 997 GT models seems the best option so far.

     yup..yes I meanSmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    igirl:

    I have always heard that the famous and so incredible 997 GT3RS 4.0 had engine issues also... No? :)

     correct..the 4.0 was the most unrealiable from the old engines..but I never heard or read from a GT2 or GT2RS failure.

    Still, 4.0 didnt burn down..but our criticism is also related to Porsches communication policy..and not only to the "product" Gt3..


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    And who selects the supplier, and who is profiting from using that supplier rather than giving us a 'real' porsche part?  Keep in mind it took decades for the Mezger engine to produce the power it did and now with the first generation of a new engine - which cost less than half the amount to produce - they shoot for the most power and revs they have ever produced - .  If it sounds too good to be true...   one would have to assume that all those years of building expensive mezger engines was just a waste of money then.  Bottom line is there is no free lunch!  You simply can't produce more power, at half the cost and without similar development time without suffering a setback or two.  Perhaps it can't even be done! Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    My issue is this. If the information proves to be true and my car is affected do I accept a car that has piston rods replace in PDI? My inclination is not to.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Wow! All that speculation ,you guys all seem to know a lot without any facts .

    I took delivery on Saturday the 8th of February the letter from Porsche arrived on Monday the 10th

    drove the car about 200 miles without any problem but was advised by my dealer to bring the car back as a precaution 

    they put me into a brand new E Hybrid

    I think we would give Porsche AG a chance to investigate what the problem is.

    I'm sure they are running frantically to find out the cause

    i'm sure most Gt3 owner are seasoned Porsche owners who have full confidence they will find the cause and fix the problem

    Just Hope this doesn't last to long ,I'm missing my car already!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    DJC:

    Wow! All that speculation ,you guys all seem to know a lot without any facts .

    I took delivery on Saturday the 8th of February the letter from Porsche arrived on Monday the 10th

    drove the car about 200 miles without any problem but was advised by my dealer to bring the car back as a precaution 

    they put me into a brand new E Hybrid

    I think we would give Porsche AG a chance to investigate what the problem is.

    I'm sure they are running frantically to find out the cause

    i'm sure most Gt3 owner are seasoned Porsche owners who have full confidence they will find the cause and fix the problem

    Just Hope this doesn't last to long ,I'm missing my car already!

    Am I reading this correctly, Porsche not only has implemented a Stop Sales order but also has a Stop Use order for cars in the field?  

    Some owners may trivialize the lose of use of the vehicle; however, I think that most owners would want to own a Porsche that is reasonably reliable from the time of purchase for several years of ownership, given that the proper maintenance schedule is performed.  Teething problems can occur with any new vehicle launch, but also consider that the debut of the car was many months ago, and after several delays from the original consumer launch schedule, before the car was sold to customers.  Once again, I will state that a testing and development regime should be significantly more arduous on the car than anything a customer would even contemplate.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    GTlover:
    igirl:

    I have always heard that the famous and so incredible 997 GT3RS 4.0 had engine issues also... No? :)

     correct..the 4.0 was the most unrealiable from the old engines..but I never heard or read from a GT2 or GT2RS failure.

    Still, 4.0 didnt burn down..but our criticism is also related to Porsches communication policy..and not only to the "product" Gt3..

    Not correct. 

    The 4.0 engine Mezger is just fine. The exhaust however is fragile. I just had mine replaced under warranty. 

    The car is amazing and I would never upgrade it for the new GT3. Tried it, fine car but engine is an extrapolation from 991 and gearbox is fast but not fun. 

    991 race car (cup and rsr) still use Mezger block, enough said really. 

    There was a time not so long ago when Porsche developed race cars from their road cars. 

    Less so now. The cup uses 991 chassis but Mezger block and proper gearbox. 

    RSR has almost nothing in common with 991. 

    Shame...

     

     

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Futch knows of what he speaks!  Hands down!  ++100

    "991 race car (cup and rsr) still use Mezger block, enough said really." - Futch

    It used to be you could take any air cooled 911 on a race track.  Then the water cooled cars came and only the GT3 or Turbo had decent engines suitable for the race track.  Now - nothing on the street from Porsche can be professionally raced.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Leawood911:

    Futch knows of what he speaks!  Hands down!  ++100

    "991 race car (cup and rsr) still use Mezger block, enough said really." - Futch

    It used to be you could take any air cooled 911 on a race track.  Then the water cooled cars came and only the GT3 or Turbo had decent engines suitable for the race track.  Now - nothing on the street from Porsche can be professionally raced.

     

    I have somewhere in my collection an old VHS tape from Porsche Marketing with David E. Davis discussing the hammers of hell.  Of course, that was when the 911 was an air-cooled marvel.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Let's not forget what the chief engineer once said angry

     

    Last hope is the RS with mezger block minus the doppelpuffkinks


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    BiTurbo:

    Let's not forget what the chief engineer once said angry

     

     

    Last hope is the RS with mezger block minus the doppelpuffkinks

    Not going to happen.  The positive economics of the new, new engine is too attractive, even with the added warranty costs.  Emission regulations worldwide ensure that PDK will be with us for the indefinite time until a newer automated transmission system is introduced, this most likely, being some form of hybrid system with interurban EV operations.   Most of this will be moot when the major urban centers in the EU effectively ban the car...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    DJC:

    Wow! All that speculation ,you guys all seem to know a lot without any facts.

    Smiley


    --

    fritz


     
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