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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    The broader market is more demanding for non essential fripperies, lazy automation of the most simple functions and style at the expense of engineering sense (I give you 20" wheels).  But what really saddens me is that the broader market demands ever more remoteness from the road underneath, even in a sports car. 

    I wonder if Ruf and/or the others will develop a hydraulic steering set up?


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    GR:

    I wonder if Ruf and/or the others will develop a hydraulic steering set up?

    Nothing to develop - they can use 997 (or 996) parts pretty easily I would think.  I might prefer the 996 rack (without the variable ratio).

    I still think the 991 GT3 may use the hydraulic system as well...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Grant:
    GR:

    I wonder if Ruf and/or the others will develop a hydraulic steering set up?

    Nothing to develop - they can use 997 (or 996) parts pretty easily I would think.  I might prefer the 996 rack (without the variable ratio).

    I still think the 991 GT3 may use the hydraulic system as well...

    I suspect they won't and I would love the 986 rack on my 987


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    GR:
    Grant:
    GR:

    I wonder if Ruf and/or the others will develop a hydraulic steering set up?

    Nothing to develop - they can use 997 (or 996) parts pretty easily I would think.  I might prefer the 996 rack (without the variable ratio).

    I still think the 991 GT3 may use the hydraulic system as well...

    I suspect they won't ...

    Then maybe they will lift the electric steering straight from the GT3 racecars (as used in 997 Cup and RSR) for the 991 GT3.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    You seem to classify the "broader market" as a group of lazy poseurs.  That's an exagerration in my view.  I think that many current Porsche owners and other dedicated sports car enthusiasts will opt for the new 991 simply because it is a substantial improvement over any previous 911.  I for example was tiring of the 997 and would not have bought another one (I had a 2008 Carrera 2S), but am definitely considering a 991...


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Grant:
    GR:
    Grant:
    GR:

    I wonder if Ruf and/or the others will develop a hydraulic steering set up?

    Nothing to develop - they can use 997 (or 996) parts pretty easily I would think.  I might prefer the 996 rack (without the variable ratio).

    I still think the 991 GT3 may use the hydraulic system as well...

    I suspect they won't ...

    Then maybe they will lift the electric steering straight from the GT3 racecars (as used in 997 Cup and RSR) for the 991 GT3.

    I'm not sure where you got the information that the RSR has electrical steering. The ACO rules do not allow for electrical steering.

    Here is the rule: ART. 11 - STEERING

    11.1 - Operation :
    The link between the driver and the wheels must be mechanical
    and continuous.

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    The RSR does have electric steering but not in the traditional sense. I believe it has an electrically operated pump.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Spyderidol:
    Grant:
    GR:
    Grant:
    GR:

    I wonder if Ruf and/or the others will develop a hydraulic steering set up?

    Nothing to develop - they can use 997 (or 996) parts pretty easily I would think.  I might prefer the 996 rack (without the variable ratio).

    I still think the 991 GT3 may use the hydraulic system as well...

    I suspect they won't ...

    Then maybe they will lift the electric steering straight from the GT3 racecars (as used in 997 Cup and RSR) for the 991 GT3.

    I'm not sure where you got the information that the RSR has electrical steering. The ACO rules do not allow for electrical steering.

    Here is the rule: ART. 11 - STEERING

    11.1 - Operation :
    The link between the driver and the wheels must be mechanical
    and continuous.

    I believe the electric steering assist on the 991 also has a mechanical and continuous link.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Apparently the new electro-mechanical steering changes in feel in Sport mode (along with the throttle map and the PDK gear changes) , something that wasn't possible with the conventional system. It's one of the possibilities that the new system offers.

    Do you think it is a step in the future that enhances handling or an artificial gimmick?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    DRIVEN: PORSCHE 911 CARRERA S (991)

    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss ... or is it? PistonHeads drives the new Porsche 911

    (21 November 2011)

    Turnarounds don't come much more dramatic. Over our first hour or so with the new 911 it's been a case of lots of teeth sucking. Quantifiably improved in every area is it actually any better?
     
    The fear is Porsche has taken what we love about the 911, digitised and sanitised it and come up with some sort of electronically enhanced impression. Sure, it'll do the numbers. But with all the longer, more stable wheelbase, electric steering and Panamera-esque luxury trimmings surely we're seeing a shift in emphasis.
     
    First impressions of the PDK-equipped Carrera S we've bagged for the first driving stint are good. But not blinding.
     
     
    -- What, you expected it to look different?
     
    Familiar 911 cues are all there. Well, it still looks the same as it always did, inside and out. Up to a point though. There are some seriously cool flourishes, the slash over the recessed rear lights a sweep of a designer's marker pen made real. The illusion of a more cab-forward stance is just that according to the measurements but the worry the 911ness has been diluted just a tad lingers.
     
     
    -- Interior is a big step up in design and quality
     
    Inside the row of five dials and reverse rake to the dash are familiar as ever, ditto the slammed to the deck seating position and better than average visibility. The big centre console is new and as button festooned as the Panamera and Cayenne that influenced it but the 911 still feels narrow, compact and wieldy, the only extra width on the 991 in the front track. A pity about the stupid, fat-thumbs steering wheel though - oh for the slim-rimmed wheel of old!
     
    Artificially enhanced
     
    And what of the controversial move to electric assistance? OK, so it saves fuel. But the fluidity and gentle nibbles of feedback from the wheel are among the things we hold so dear about the 911. And no matter how good Porsche says it is the new system is an artificially enhanced impression. A very good one, with great weighting and response. But there's a twang and springiness about it that doesn't quite carry the illusion.
     
    The PDK of our test car is the same. Objectively it works great, slurring its way rapidly through the ratios as quickly as possible. Left to its own devices it's crisp, efficient ... and, yes, mainly those things.
     
    We're all used to digital music these days, the compression and loss of nuance accepted as the cost of convenience and portability. And cars are going the same way, the dial-a-mode button pushing selecting throttle response, damper settings, exhaust noise and more on our test car all contriving an effective simulation of a great new 911. But is it actually that? Hell, even the noise, great as it is, comes from a 'sound symposer' transmitting induction noise to the cabin.
     
     
    -- Targets for the Highway Patrol don't come more obvious
     
    Classic 911 traits remain though, just about. The longer wheelbase and extra track in the front (46mm on the Carrera, 52mm on the S) haven't entirely stabilised the familiar bobbing and chatter through the dampers, Porsche thankfully happy to let the body move and react to the road rather than just steamroller it into submission. And no PASM equipped 911 ever rode this well before, to the extent that you'll be happy leaving it in the harder sports setting more often than not.
     
    To PDK or not PDK, that is the question
     
    Manually controlled via the weighty, aluminium shifter paddles PDK does get better. There's a lovely tactility to the paddle, upshifts zinging through without delay and downshifts even more dramatic and delivered with a satisfyingly mechanical whump. But there's a sense that things are just a bit PlayStation and this detachment means it's easy to carry too much speed into bends and feel the car running away with you a tad.
     
     
    -- The key to unlocking the 991's real talent
     
    For all the fuss about the manual version and its headline grabbing seventh ratio Porsche seems awfully reticent about letting anyone having ago. A degree of assertiveness is required to bag one of the three here but the PH beach towel is placed firmly over one of them at the lunch stop.
     
    And it takes all of a few hundred metres in it to let out a huge sigh of relief. Suddenly it all clicks into place. It doesn't matter that the sound is artificially enhanced. Because the outrageous, searing howl that erupts in the extra 300rpm the flat-six now has was your choosing, not that of some black box or sensor. And those fierce little stabs of noise as you blip down two, three gears on the approach to that corner? All your own work.
     
    It's easy to get complacent about quite how special this engine is too. We're only on the second rung of the 911 ladder here and already we've got 400hp and the kind of inertia-free zinginess that's always set Porsche flat sixes apart. It's magic but it needs working hard, both peak power and torque now at least 1,000rpm higher in the rev range than before. That's unusual in this day and age and a shock if you're accustomed to turbo engines - petrol or diesel - that hand it all on a plate before the rev counter passes 2,000rpm. You'll need nearly three times that for the best from this engine with nearly another 2,000rpm before things get really riotous. And with the manual you've got the time to fully appreciate every nuance of that huge power band at a time of your own, rather than the computer's, choosing.
     
    Say hello to the £100K Carrera
     
    To think, even a GT3 only had 35hp more power than this, the tight, short throw of the gearshift and appetite for revs offering more than a taste of that car. High praise indeed and, indeed, decked out with all the toys a Carrera S will now lap the 'ring in around the same time, recording a blistering 7:40. It will also cost, like our test cars, as near as makes no odds £100K.
     
     
    -- Artificially enhanced but still pretty magic
     
    With so much more interaction in what the car is doing you end up driving it harder and with much greater focus and clarity. Corners are properly assessed, entry speed considered, gear selection made and carried out and with this precision comes far greater speed and composure.
     
    Turn-in becomes sharper because you're concentrating harder on getting it right, the fabulously quick damping meaning even violent bumps and dramatic camber changes the like of which are common on Californian back roads do nothing to upset the chassis. And, yes, that agility may be augmented by gizmos like the PDCC. But it's not alienating or artificial. You're involved, full immersed, all the time that flat-six howl burning deep into your head and carrying you bodily to a very, very happy place. And with that confidence comes ever and ever earlier application of power and that familiar 911 slingshot corner exit, again with a little help from the black boxes (this time PTV) but again thankfully natural in feel. Hell, it'll even pick up an inside front wheel, old school style, if you're really trying.
     
     
    -- New school 911, old school cornering stance
     
    This is fabulous. This is what we want out of a 911. And it's all there for the taking with the simple addition of a clutch pedal and stick shift. Better still the £2,387 you save on PDK can go a long way towards more worthwhile options. Like the sports exhaust and, maybe, the PTV / limited-slip diff.
     
    Is the extra plane on the gear selector as confusing as it appears? Not in this situation, third and fourth being adequate for nearly any eventuality. You wonder if a shift-lock like that engaged on PDK that cancels out seventh when in Sport Plus might be an idea but when you're driving hard you forget it's even there.
     
    And finally a hint of the real 991 shows itself. It had us worried there for a minute...
     
     
     
     


    PORSCHE 911 IN ACTION...

    Below is a video from the handling track Porsche built for the launch event in Santa Barbara. Yes, the tarmac was laid over the top of an old runway specifically for a bit of hoonage, which given that the local Highway Patrol were fully up to speed with the launch timetable and test route was probably a good thing. They must have had a cracking couple of weeks knowing that at a given time each day a fresh batch of over-exciteable hacks in brand-new 911s was headed their way. No, we didn't get done but we saw a couple of people who did and one Chinese journalist may apprently have a fairly exciting time if they ever try and re-enter the United States after being caught at a fairly robust speed a few days ahead of our visit...

    -- Article by Dan Trent for PistonHeads

    Anyway, the video gives you a sense of what the new car can do, plus exactly why you should be spending your options budget on £1,772 worth of sportlich auspuff and the £890 Porsche Torque Vectoring limited slip diff package rather than £2,986 worth of Burmester 'high end surround sound system'.

    And, no, we can't take credit for the driving unfortunately. But we gave it a pretty good shot.

    2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S -- PistonHeads link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Wonderbar:

    You seem to classify the "broader market" as a group of lazy poseurs.  That's an exagerration in my view.  I think that many current Porsche owners and other dedicated sports car enthusiasts will opt for the new 991 simply because it is a substantial improvement over any previous 911.  I for example was tiring of the 997 and would not have bought another one (I had a 2008 Carrera 2S), but am definitely considering a 991...

    Perhaps I was a little glib but I suspect the people who think Porsche have diluted feel/feedback too much already are a very small minority;  those who can assess and live with the trade off between such dilution for the other dynamic/quality improvements, are more widespread but also a minority.  Rennteam and other forums naturally draw these people because we are passionate and informed about cars, driving and Porsche.  But if we were the target audience, why would Porsche continually broaden the appeal of the cars at the expense of feedback and risk alienating us?  And feedback is clearly a matter close to many Rennteamer's hearts looking at all the posts on the subject.

    Now until I drive the 991 I'm not sure which category I will fit into but with the introduction of the 997/987 I was in the middle group.  I didn't like the steering much, I thought the wheels were too big and my initial impression hasn't changed with time.  But the upsides outweigh the downsides and I think both platforms are brilliant regardless.   The question for me is whether the 991 has gone too far.


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    NEW PORSCHE 911: THE SPECS...

    OK, so you've read the first drive - here's the number and spec crunching bit...
     
     
    (21 November 2011)
     
    As you may have gathered, the all new 991 generation Porsche 911 is a rather complex beast, not least when it comes to understanding all the tech and how it all relates to each other. And what's standard and what's not.
     
    So, let's start with the vanilla Porsche 911 Carrera. This starts at £71,449 and uses a new 3.4-litre flat-six with 350hp. 0-62mph in the manual takes 4.8 seconds, dropping to 4.6 seconds with PDK (£2,387) and 4.4 seconds on the latter with the £1,084 Sport Chrono pack. Top speed is 179mph. All cars get the new Sound Symposer, switchable via the Sport button.
     
     
    -- Your basic 911 Carrera? This isn't it
     
    So there's your basic 911. To which you can add, in no particular order, Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV) for £890 - familiar technology from the previous Turbo but now available even on the Carrera and fitted in conjunction with a limited-slip diff. If you've already chosen PDK your choice is PTV Plus (£1,012) with a more sophisticated electronically controlled locking diff. PASM dampers (£1,133) are another familiar technology and will be available in two configurations. The first drops the car by 10mm while the PASM 'sports suspension' (£1,691), with an aero package that includes a variable rear wing, drops the car 20mm but you need to have ticked the boxes for 20-inch wheels (£971) and PTV to qualify.
     
    Sport Chrono, as mentioned, includes launch control on the PDK and, new for the 991, GT3 style active engine mounts.
     
    By the time you've added all this lot to your Carrera you're probably looking at a somewhat ludicrous price tag. So you might be better off starting with the £81,242 Carrera S instead. It uses the familiar 3.8-litre engine and now develops 400hp, cutting the 0-62mph time to 4.5 seconds with the manual, 4.3 seconds with PDK and just 4.1 seconds with PDK and Sports Chrono.
     
     
    -- Porsche in 'charging lots for extras' shocker
     
    But the standard spec also includes 20-inch wheels, PASM and the regular PTV torque vectoring and limited-slip diff set-up. If you want a more extreme set-up you can still go for the PASM sports suspension too but it costs a more reasonable £558 on the S. Exclusive to the S you can also add the Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) active anti-roll bar system for £2,185, or you can bundle it with the PASM sports suspension for £2,744. Though the acronym is carried over from the Panamera and Cayenne and it achieves the same aim it's, technically speaking, a completely different system.
     
    The switchable sports exhaust is also available on both models and comes heartily recommended! £1,772 very well spent. Other common options include the Power Steering Plus (£178) that reduces the weighting for parking manoeuvres and at low speeds and, of course, PCCB ceramic brakes (£5,787) with trademark yellow calipers. Beware if you're choosing PDK too - unless you opt for the £283 Sport Design steering wheel you won't get paddle shifters but the daft, two-way buttons instead.
     
    In true Porsche fashion the potential for inflating that base price by a significant margin is present and correct, your friendly dealer no doubt happy to discuss how many acronyms and zeros you want adding to your spec sheet come order time. The least you can expect is a nice coffee as he does so.
     
    Offsetting that is the fact your new 911 will use considerably less fuel, the standard, start-stop equipped Carrera achieving 31.4mpg with the manual and 34.4mpg with PDK, the latter helped by the new coasting function. Emissions are 212g/km and 194g/km respectively. To give you an idea of the efficiency savings the previous 3.6 would do 27.4mpg (28.8mpg PDK) and 242g/km (230g/km PDK). The S manages 29.7mpg manual and 32.5mpg with PDK, CO2 coming in at 224g/km and 204g/km respectively. Impressive numbers for a 400hp, 188mph car.
     
    -- Article by Dan Trent for PistonHeads

    New Porsche 911 -- The Specs -- PistonHeads link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Grant:
    Spyderidol:
    Grant:
    GR:
    Grant:
    GR:

    I wonder if Ruf and/or the others will develop a hydraulic steering set up?

    Nothing to develop - they can use 997 (or 996) parts pretty easily I would think.  I might prefer the 996 rack (without the variable ratio).

    I still think the 991 GT3 may use the hydraulic system as well...

    I suspect they won't ...

    Then maybe they will lift the electric steering straight from the GT3 racecars (as used in 997 Cup and RSR) for the 991 GT3.

    I'm not sure where you got the information that the RSR has electrical steering. The ACO rules do not allow for electrical steering.

    Here is the rule: ART. 11 - STEERING

    11.1 - Operation :
    The link between the driver and the wheels must be mechanical
    and continuous.

    I believe the electric steering assist on the 991 also has a mechanical and continuous link.

    No, there is no link on the 991. On the Cup Cars and RSR there is a link to the wheels, but on the 991, there is nothing. The steering systems on the 991 and RSR/Cup Cars are totally different in every sense of the word.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    reginos:

    Apparently the new electro-mechanical steering changes in feel in Sport mode (along with the throttle map and the PDK gear changes) , something that wasn't possible with the conventional system. It's one of the possibilities that the new system offers.

    Do you think it is a step in the future that enhances handling or an artificial gimmick?

    What's you're source on this?


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    reginos:

    Apparently the new electro-mechanical steering changes in feel in Sport mode (along with the throttle map and the PDK gear changes) , something that wasn't possible with the conventional system. It's one of the possibilities that the new system offers.

    Do you think it is a step in the future that enhances handling or an artificial gimmick?

    It is a total gimmick in my mind.  BMW and other companies already do this - it varies the amount of servo assist, but the feeling is dead in all cases.

    I do not care if the Sport button gives much more weight to the steering (increased effort to turn the wheel), if it does not also come with more feel and feedback (difficult to provide through a button).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carrara:
    Grant:
    Spyderidol:
    Grant:
    GR:
    Grant:
    GR:

    I wonder if Ruf and/or the others will develop a hydraulic steering set up?

    Nothing to develop - they can use 997 (or 996) parts pretty easily I would think.  I might prefer the 996 rack (without the variable ratio).

    I still think the 991 GT3 may use the hydraulic system as well...

    I suspect they won't ...

    Then maybe they will lift the electric steering straight from the GT3 racecars (as used in 997 Cup and RSR) for the 991 GT3.

    I'm not sure where you got the information that the RSR has electrical steering. The ACO rules do not allow for electrical steering.

    Here is the rule: ART. 11 - STEERING

    11.1 - Operation :
    The link between the driver and the wheels must be mechanical
    and continuous.

    I believe the electric steering assist on the 991 also has a mechanical and continuous link.

    No, there is no link on the 991. On the Cup Cars and RSR there is a link to the wheels, but on the 991, there is nothing. The steering systems on the 991 and RSR/Cup Cars are totally different in every sense of the word.

    So, you are saying the steering on the 991 is drive-by-wire?  I really don't think this is the case.  I believe there is a mechanical steering rack that is supplemented with electric motors to provide assist.  I do not believe that the steering wheel is just an electronic input device sending an electronic signal to the steering system.  I am almost certain that it is a mechanical system with electric assistance.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    From what I've heard, there is a sensor at the wheels, and one at the steering wheel. Nobody said anything about a link. And if there was a link, I don't think steering feel would be an issue. Have you ever heard somebody complain about the steering feel on a Cup Car?


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I will never buy a steer by wire car.  There is no way porsche would do that.  If there were some electronic problem or bug your would go head-on into traffic without any control.  NO WAY they would not build a mechanical connection. 

    No WAY!

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    From my memory,

    it is mandatory to provide a mechanical connection from the steering wheel to the tires. Drive-by-wire is definitely not permitted. Some manufacturers use a overriding drive to change the gear ratio but it still remains a mechanical connection. Mercedes, for example, had to incorporate an additional hydraulic brake system as a backup device when they tried to introduce the brake-by-wire on the E- and SL-class a few years ago.

    Not sure about the source but I seem to remember that the electrical steering in the 997 racecars was the typical hydraulic rack with an electrically driven pump. The 991 uses a belt-driven electrical motor to assist the steeringrack and replaces the mechanical function of the previous hydraulic rack.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Porsche GT racers have "power steering with electro-hydraulic pressure feed..."

    The Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid, with two 75 kilowatt electric motors on the front axle supplementing the 465 hp four-litre, six-cylinder power unit at the rear, particularly embodies the philosophy of “Porsche Intelligent Performance”



    Exactly 110 years after Ferdinand Porsche developed the world’s first car with hybrid drive, the Lohner Porsche Semper Vivus, Porsche was once again taking up this visionary drive concept in production-based GT racing: During the Geneva Motor Show, a Porsche 911 GT3 R with innovative hybrid drive was making its debut, opening up a new chapter in the history of Porsche with more than 20,000 wins in 45 years scored by the extremely successful Porsche 911 in racing trim.

    After succsessfull start in 2010, Porsche starts off with a further developed version of the Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid. Priority of the development was given to the improvement of efficiency through the targeted optimisation of hybrid components, which also resulted in a 20 percent weight reduction. Version 2.0 of the 911 GT3 R Hybrid is intended to achieve the same lap times as its predecessor but with less fuel consumption.

    As a spearhead in technology and a “racing laboratory”, the 911 GT3 R Hybrid provides know-how on the subsequent use of hybrid technology in road-going sports cars. The prototype is not part of the Porsche Motorsport customer sports programme and thus not for sale.




     

    The innovative hybrid technology featured in the Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid has been developed especially for racing, standing out significantly in its configuration and components from conventional hybrid systems. In this case, electrical front axle drive with two electric motors developing 75 kW each supplements the 465-bhp four-litre flat-six at the rear of the GT race car. A further significant point is that instead of the usual batteries in a hybrid road car, an electrical flywheel power generator fitted in the interior next to the driver delivers energy to the electric motors.
     
    The flywheel generator itself is an electric motor with its rotor spinning at speeds of up to 40,000 rpm, storing energy mechanically as rotation energy. The flywheel generator is charged whenever the driver applies the brakes, with the two electric motors reversing their function on the front axle and acting themselves as generators. Then, whenever necessary, that is when accelerating out of a bend or when overtaking, the driver is able to call up extra energy from the charged flywheel generator, the flywheel being slowed down electromagnetically in the generator mode and thus supplying up to 150 kW to the two electric motors at the front from its kinetic energy. This additional power is available to the driver after each charge process for approximately 6 - 8 seconds.
     
    Energy formerly converted – and thus wasted – into heat upon every application of the brakes, is now highly efficiently converted into additional drive power.Depending on racing conditions, hybrid drive is used in this case not only for extra power, but also to save fuel. This again increases the efficiency and, accordingly, the performance of the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, for example by reducing the weight of the tank or making pitstops less frequent.
     
    The focus on the 911 GT3 R Hybrid is to serve as a spearhead in technology and a “racing laboratory” providing know-how on the subsequent use of hybrid technology in road-going sports cars. It is a perfect example of the Porsche Intelligent Performance philosophy, a principle to be found in every Porsche: More power on less fuel, more efficiency and lower CO2 emissions – on the track and on the road.





    • McPherson spring strut type axle with adjustable spring/dampers, height adjustable
    • SACHS dampers (2-way dampers, Through Rod)
    • Twin coil springs (main and helper spring)
    • Spring platform with 3 adjustment positions
    • Lower front wishbone with integrated camber adjustment
    • Double-blade-type anti-roll bar, adjustable
    • Strengthened front cross member
    • Toe-rod length adjustable
    • Power steering with electro-hydraulic pressure feed
    • Forged strut mount
     
    • Multi-link rear axle with rigidly mounted cross member and adjustable spring/dampers, height adjustable
    • SACHS dampers (2-way dampers, Through Rod)
    • Twin coil springs (main and helper spring)
    • Spring platform with 4 adjustment positions
    • Forged, two-piece lower wishbone with integrated camber adjustment
    • Reinforced, continuously variable rear axle track rod
    • Double-blade-type anti-roll bar, adjustable





    Adjustable via a brake balance bar system; Independent dual circuit brake system.
     
    • Aluminium monobloc six-piston fixed calliper
    • Ventilated steel brake discs, 380 mm diameter
    • Race brake pads
    • Optimized brake cooling ducts
    • One-piece, forged light-alloy wheels (BBS) 11,5J x 18, ET 35 with central locking
    • Michelin tyres, tyre dimension: 30/65-18

    • Aluminum monobloc four-piston fixed calliper
    • Ventilated steel brake discs, 355 mm diameter
    • Race brake pads
    • Optimized brake cooling ducts
    • One-piece, forged light-alloy wheels (Rays) 13J x 18, ET 12.5 with central locking
    • Michelin tyres, tyre dimension: 31/71-18






    • aspirated engine
    • water-cooled six cylinder Boxer engine with four-valve technology
    • displacement: 3,996 cc
    • stroke: 80,4 mm
    • bore: 102,7 mm
    • max. power: 342 kW (465 bhp)
    • dry sump lubrication
    • individual throttle butterflies
    • multi-point fuel injection (sequential)
    • Bosch MS 4.0 electronic engine management
    • Race exhaust system with pre and final silencer
    • Twin-branched muffler with centered exhaust pipes

    • Two permanently excitated synchronous motors
    • on the front axle, water-cooled
    • 2 x 75 kW (2 x 101 bhp) electric output
    • 15,000 rpm maximum speed


    • Porsche 6-speed sequential dog gearbox
    • Oil-water heat exchanger
    • Single mass flywheel
    • Hydraulic release bearing
    • Race clutch (triple plate carbon clutch)
    • Sperrdifferenzial 45/65 Prozent· Paddle Shift System

    • Electric flywheel battery, oil-cooled
    • 150 kW (203 bhp) permanent output
    • 0.2 kWh useful energy content
    • 40,000/min maximum speed





    • monocoque body (basis GT3 RS) of hot-galvanised steel
    • welded roll over cage
    • aerodynamically optimised front end with front spoiler
    • aerodynamically optimised front underfloor
    • adjustable rear wing
    • weight of vehicle: 1.300 kg
    • car mounted air-jack system with pressure release valve
    • race bucket seat (driver side only) with fire-resistant up holstered cover
    • six-point safety harness (red), adapted for use with HANS*
    • electric fire extinguisher system

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Grant:
    Carrara:
    Grant:
    Spyderidol:
    Grant:
    GR:
    Grant:
    GR:

    I wonder if Ruf and/or the others will develop a hydraulic steering set up?

    Nothing to develop - they can use 997 (or 996) parts pretty easily I would think.  I might prefer the 996 rack (without the variable ratio).

    I still think the 991 GT3 may use the hydraulic system as well...

    I suspect they won't ...

    Then maybe they will lift the electric steering straight from the GT3 racecars (as used in 997 Cup and RSR) for the 991 GT3.

    I'm not sure where you got the information that the RSR has electrical steering. The ACO rules do not allow for electrical steering.

    Here is the rule: ART. 11 - STEERING

    11.1 - Operation :
    The link between the driver and the wheels must be mechanical
    and continuous.

    I believe the electric steering assist on the 991 also has a mechanical and continuous link.

    No, there is no link on the 991. On the Cup Cars and RSR there is a link to the wheels, but on the 991, there is nothing. The steering systems on the 991 and RSR/Cup Cars are totally different in every sense of the word.

    So, you are saying the steering on the 991 is drive-by-wire?  I really don't think this is the case.  I believe there is a mechanical steering rack that is supplemented with electric motors to provide assist.  I do not believe that the steering wheel is just an electronic input device sending an electronic signal to the steering system.  I am almost certain that it is a mechanical system with electric assistance.

    1) The 997 GT3-based race cars have a mechanical rack/pinion system with hydraulic power assistance, whereby the hydraulic pump required is driven by an electric motor. It is therefore not a drive-by-wire system.

    2) 997 road cars had a a mechanical rack/pinion system with hydraulic power assistance, whereby the hydraulic pump required was on top of the engine and driven mechanically by the engine.

    3) 991 road cars have a mechanical rack/pinion system with electric power assistance provided by an electronically controlled electric motor servo-assisting the steering input as and when required. It is therefore not a drive-by-wire system. 

    4) The advantages of system 3) over system 2) should be easier "packaging" and reduced weight due to elimination of the hydraulic pump and long pipe runs from rear engine to front servo rack , and presumably reduced cost (otherwise the system would not currently be introduced into new mass-market cars the way it is).
    The disadvantage may well be a poorer steering feel and feedback than we have been accustomed to from the hydraulic assist systems used up until now in Porsche sports cars. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Grant:
    Carrara:
    Grant:
    Spyderidol:
    Grant:
    GR:
    Grant:
    GR:

    I wonder if Ruf and/or the others will develop a hydraulic steering set up?

    Nothing to develop - they can use 997 (or 996) parts pretty easily I would think.  I might prefer the 996 rack (without the variable ratio).

    I still think the 991 GT3 may use the hydraulic system as well...

    I suspect they won't ...

    Then maybe they will lift the electric steering straight from the GT3 racecars (as used in 997 Cup and RSR) for the 991 GT3.

    I'm not sure where you got the information that the RSR has electrical steering. The ACO rules do not allow for electrical steering.

    Here is the rule: ART. 11 - STEERING

    11.1 - Operation :
    The link between the driver and the wheels must be mechanical
    and continuous.

    I believe the electric steering assist on the 991 also has a mechanical and continuous link.

    No, there is no link on the 991. On the Cup Cars and RSR there is a link to the wheels, but on the 991, there is nothing. The steering systems on the 991 and RSR/Cup Cars are totally different in every sense of the word.

    So, you are saying the steering on the 991 is drive-by-wire?  I really don't think this is the case.  I believe there is a mechanical steering rack that is supplemented with electric motors to provide assist.  I do not believe that the steering wheel is just an electronic input device sending an electronic signal to the steering system.  I am almost certain that it is a mechanical system with electric assistance.


    2012_porsche_911_fd_11.jpg


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Very helpful discussion, thanks.  I look forward to driving a 991 to experience the new "feel". 

    It has been three years since I owned a 997Carrera 2S, but my recollection is that I liked the steering feel at the time, but was honestly more concerned and focused on sudden oversteer than on whether the steering was precise or not....


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Thanks Misha and Fritz!


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    New review for the new 911. This time in a language i can understand (Portuguese).

    Woshhhhhhhhh

     

     


    --
    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Grant:
    Spyderidol:
    Grant:
    GR:
    Grant:
    GR:

    I wonder if Ruf and/or the others will develop a hydraulic steering set up?

    Nothing to develop - they can use 997 (or 996) parts pretty easily I would think.  I might prefer the 996 rack (without the variable ratio).

    I still think the 991 GT3 may use the hydraulic system as well...

    I suspect they won't ...

    Then maybe they will lift the electric steering straight from the GT3 racecars (as used in 997 Cup and RSR) for the 991 GT3.

    I'm not sure where you got the information that the RSR has electrical steering. The ACO rules do not allow for electrical steering.

    Here is the rule: ART. 11 - STEERING

    11.1 - Operation :
    The link between the driver and the wheels must be mechanical
    and continuous.

    I believe the electric steering assist on the 991 also has a mechanical and continuous link.

    ...But remember that the RSR (and R's, and CUP's) are homologated from the 997RS, and unless the 997RS had "electric" steering (in the 991 sense of the word), then the ACO would not allow the RSR or the R to be raced in ACO sanctioned events.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    This thing in black is just....


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    kisskiss


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    cabrio launched on porsche.com kiss


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    wink


     
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