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    AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    Most recent issue of AutoBild Sportscars includes an interesting test of GT2, ZR1, 599GTB and GTR. Here are some key results/statements from the test:

     

    0-300kph:

    GT2: 36s

    ZR1: 35.5s

    599GTB: 35.6s

    GTR:  53.5s

     

    100-0kph:

    GT2: 32.0m 

    ZR1: 31.7m

    599GTB: 34.1m 

    GTR 34.4m

     

    Lap-times:

    GT2: 0.57,5

    ZR1: 0.56,9

    599GTB: 0.58,0

    GTR: 0.58,1 

     

    The tires on the GTR and the 599 blew during the high-speed test... Not a good sign, if you ask me.

    The handling of the GTR is described as follows: "The GTR exhibits strong understeering. This cannot be improved by applying the throttle. Also, the switch from understeer to very sudden oversteer is abrupt". In connection with the very poor 0-300 performance this test does not shed a good light on the GTR. In fact,. they primarily praise the GTR for its low price...

    BTW, the statements regarding the heavy understeer of the GTR are even more significant if one takes into account the above lap times. The nature of the test track must be very unusual as GT2 and  599 are pretty close in terms of lap times (I focus on the two cars I have extensive track and road experience with - no clue about the ZR1 yet). Usually, the GT2 gains about 2-3s on the 599GTB on a track like HHR, NBR GP, Leipzig etc. The reason for this is that the 599 is very fast in fast and middle-fast bends (and on the straight) but suffers badly in tighter corners (heavy understeer).

    Now, the only explanation for the GT2 and the 599 having similar lap times as in this test is that the test track is very unusual - thus, being rather fast with limited tight corners. Keeping this in mind the GTR seems to have a VERY unfavourable setup (way too much understeer). This is also consistent with the recent test of a tuned GTR in Sportauto, where Sportauto also complained that even with an entirely new suspension there is still "understeering left".


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    interesting,thanks!
    --
    Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    Some people are more desperate than I thought....

    Auto Bild? Come on...


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    Walter:

    Some people are more desperate than I thought....

    Auto Bild? Come on...

    The test was actually done by an US magazine using an American race professional and the Chrysler track. AutoBild just printed the test results.

    Bet you are surprised Smiley

    P.S.: It is nice to have a last GTR fan here SmileySmiley

    P.P.S.: Better wait for the Sportauto Supertest. This will give you the rest SmileySmileySmiley





    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    I knew that (it's a test from November irc)...but you know, ***deleted***

    But you're right, I am surprised. I thought only Sport Auto tests matter. It's nice to see that you finally opened your mind. You might be interested to know that Motor Trend's COTY was the GT-R. You can now read all the other tests where the GT-R does very well (you'll find out that there are a lot of tests like that). 

    Here's the video of the GT-R lap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atfMwlGB0qQ

    And here's the full article: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0810_2009_corvette_zr1_vs_porsche_gt2_vs_ferrari_599_vs_nissan_gtr/index.html


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    Well, no matter how much I think of it I still cannot figure out why the GTR is in that test Smiley its like the pace car in between all the F1 cars in a race Smiley
    --

    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    Walter:

    You can now read all the other tests where the GT-R does very well (you'll find out that there are a lot of tests like that). 

    That's awesome! When does yours arrive?I can't wait to hear from someone who liked the car enough to actually buy one! Looking forward to the pic's and reports.Smiley


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    Walter:

    I knew that (it's a test from November irc)...but you know, ***deleted***

    But you're right, I am surprised. I thought only Sport Auto tests matter. It's nice to see that you finally opened your mind. You might be interested to know that Motor Trend's COTY was the GT-R. You can now read all the other tests where the GT-R does very well (you'll find out that there are a lot of tests like that).

    Here's the video of the GT-R lap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atfMwlGB0qQ

    And here's the full article: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0810_2009_corvette_zr1_vs_porsche_gt2_vs_ferrari_599_vs_nissan_gtr/index.html


           It is in conflict with law to accuse magazines or private individuals of criminal acts (like bribery) without proper evidence. Thus, Rennteam is not the place to post nonsense like that.

    Let's hope you understand that and follow this directive from now on.


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    If I had to tell from the content of his posts he is more the kind of guy who drives limousines and compact cars... Seems to know nothing about sportscars - at least his posts indicate so...

    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    MKSGR:
    If I had to tell from the content of his posts he is more the kind of guy who drives limousines and compact cars... Seems to know nothing about sportscars - at least his posts indicate so...

            There is no need to insult people who have different opinions. This indicates a character flaw that is inappropriate in for a moderator.


    --


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    The best sports car of the moment , with a very affordable price , could well be the  ZR1. If you can put aside the Corvette image, then you have one of the best and most efficiant machine of the moment.

    I friend of mine, who owned severa Porsche (  modified TT, Gt3) drives now Corvette and says he has never been as happy in a sports car. His lap time at the Ring are also now much better.


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    I wish we got the ZR1 here, Corvette or not - it is still one hell of a car for the price!

    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    Bribery? Did I imply that?

     edit: and who exactly did they bribe?


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    Gnil:

    The best sports car of the moment , with a very affordable price , could well be the  ZR1. If you can put aside the Corvette image, then you have one of the best and most efficiant machine of the moment.

    I friend of mine, who owned severa Porsche (  modified TT, Gt3) drives now Corvette and says he has never been as happy in a sports car. His lap time at the Ring are also now much better.


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

            

                  +1,ZR1 FTW

    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    Gnil:

    The best sports car of the moment , with a very affordable price , could well be the  ZR1. If you can put aside the Corvette image, then you have one of the best and most efficiant machine of the moment.

    I friend of mine, who owned severa Porsche (  modified TT, Gt3) drives now Corvette and says he has never been as happy in a sports car. His lap time at the Ring are also now much better.


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

            Does he think the Vette is easier to drive faster than a 911, or is it more confidence-inspiring? Front engine vs rear I mean.Smiley


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    AUM:
    MKSGR:
    If I had to tell from the content of his posts he is more the kind of guy who drives limousines and compact cars... Seems to know nothing about sportscars - at least his posts indicate so...

            There is no need to insult people who have different opinions. This indicates a character flaw that is inappropriate in for a moderator.


    --

    It is never wrong to speak the truth. BTW, why do you think I would be interested in your view on "character flaws" Smiley Frankly, I am not interested in your views at all.


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    MKSGR:
    AUM:
    MKSGR:
    If I had to tell from the content of his posts he is more the kind of guy who drives limousines and compact cars... Seems to know nothing about sportscars - at least his posts indicate so...

            There is no need to insult people who have different opinions. This indicates a character flaw that is inappropriate in for a moderator.


    --

    It is never wrong to speak the truth. BTW, why do you think I would be interested in your view on "character flaws" Smiley Frankly, I am not interested in your views at all.

    Bad mannered and insulting people are common on internet forums. Good moderators usually try to elevate the tone of discussions and lead by example.

            


    --


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    The best moderators would probably just delete posts that have no subject related content but are just focused on stiring things up...

    This is Rennteam and not a platform for trolls to post nonsense. 


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    MKSGR:

    The best moderators would probably just delete posts that have no subject related content but are just focused on stiring things up...

    This is Rennteam and not a platform for trolls to post nonsense. 


            Have you considered anger management? You sound a bit unbalanced.


    --


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    AUM:
    MKSGR:

    The best moderators would probably just delete posts that have no subject related content but are just focused on stiring things up...

    This is Rennteam and not a platform for trolls to post nonsense. 


            Have you considered anger management? You sound a bit unbalanced.


    --


    Do you feel the need to insult him, although admittedly through more 'sophisticated' language? You have no moral authority to accuse a person of acting 'low class', when you in fact are doing the exact thing you have accused him of.

    Regarding his evaluation of Walter, it was a remark about Walter´s (possible) scope of knowledge, not a derogatory statement. If anyone needs to cool off, it´s you.


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    AUM:
    MKSGR:

    The best moderators would probably just delete posts that have no subject related content but are just focused on stiring things up...

    This is Rennteam and not a platform for trolls to post nonsense. 


            Have you considered anger management? You sound a bit unbalanced.


    --

    My dear friend: whenever I feel a bit unbalanced I just need to go through your posts on the GTR topic. After reading 5 of them I start laughing and everything is just perfect again. And after an additional 5 posts of your "brilliant" thoughts I feel like on drugs Smiley This is perfect relaxation SmileySmiley



    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    Crash:
    AUM:
    MKSGR:

    The best moderators would probably just delete posts that have no subject related content but are just focused on stiring things up...

    This is Rennteam and not a platform for trolls to post nonsense. 


            Have you considered anger management? You sound a bit unbalanced.


    --


    Do you feel the need to insult him, although admittedly through more 'sophisticated' language? You have no moral authority to accuse a person of acting 'low class', when you in fact are doing the exact thing you have accused him of.

    Regarding his evaluation of Walter, it was a remark about Walter´s (possible) scope of knowledge, not a derogatory statement. If anyone needs to cool off, it´s you.


           Thanks for your assistance Crash Smiley AUM still seems to have problems with the fact that his former line of argument in favour of the GTR broke down some months ago... Personally, I also liked very much when he wrote (on day 1) that he will buy either a GTR or a M3 and (on day 2) declined that he would ever consider buying a GTR. Some days later he stopped following his repetitive line of argument in favour of the GTR. As it appears now he still has not digested all this...


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    MKSGR:
    AUM:
    MKSGR:

    The best moderators would probably just delete posts that have no subject related content but are just focused on stiring things up...

    This is Rennteam and not a platform for trolls to post nonsense. 


            Have you considered anger management? You sound a bit unbalanced.


    --

    My dear friend: whenever I feel a bit unbalanced I just need to go through your posts on the GTR topic. After reading 5 of them I start laughing and everything is just perfect again. And after an additional 5 posts of your "brilliant" thoughts I feel like on drugs Smiley This is perfect relaxation SmileySmiley



    You really love each other, don't you? Smiley
            


    --

    Back again!  Smiley


    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    AUMMMM, yes !!!! SmileySmileySmileySmiley




    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    Given the ZR1's significantly inferior weight, similar power and superior torque, it still can't beat the 599.

    Can this be due to poor gearing and lousy aerodynamics?


    --
    997TT Blk/Blk 05 Harley Davidson Ultra Classic

    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    That's true. Gearing seems to be a major factor in explaining the (a bit disappointing) high-speed performance of the ZR1. However, the lap-time looks quite promising. I am very interested in the ZR1 Supertest. In contrast to the GTR the ZR1 might get pretty close to the GT2 NBR/HHR lap time... It is light, it is strong, suspension/setup seems to be OK.

    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    MKSGR:
    That's true. Gearing seems to be a major factor in explaining the (a bit disappointing) high-speed performance of the ZR1. However, the lap-time looks quite promising. I am very interested in the ZR1 Supertest. In contrast to the GTR the ZR1 might get pretty close to the GT2 NBR/HHR lap time... It is light, it is strong, suspension/setup seems to be OK.

            

    in the latest topgear magazine they tested a zr1 and a murcie lp640.

    both very similar in performance and they pointed out that the zr1 in fact has an excellent suspension which is rather cleverly designed. nothing to do with the old leaf spring setup.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    The Supertest will be very interesting indeed Smiley

    Re: AutoBild Sportscars: GT2 vs. ZR1 vs. 599 vs. GTR

    By the way, Motor Trend obtained a very good 1/4 mile trap speed for the ZR1 - 130.5mph (125.5mph for Road & Track). IMO, this is more indicative of the ZR1's acceleration versus its competition. Here are Motor Trend's 1/4 mile results:

    ZR1 - 11.2/130.5mph

    599 - 11.3/126.4mph

    GT2 - 11.4/127.9mph

    SA's Supertest results for the ZR1 should be extremely good. Its suspension seems to offer the best of both worlds - track/street balance which one can live with everyday.


    --
    997TT Blk/Blk 05 Harley Davidson Ultra Classic

     
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