Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    nberry:

    Why are US cars so expensive in Europe and as a result uncompetitive? Duties?

    Various reasons. It also varies per country, but in the Netherlands for example, they have a stupid CO2 related tax. With those beautiful, but thirsty American V8s, they're of course gonna get an awful lot of tax on it. Same applies to the new  Corvette C7, albeit less than the C6.

    European manufacturers are ahead in making small, fuel efficient Turbocharged engines (look at how many 2.0TSI variants VAG brands are using). In the US, the demand for more fuel efficient engines isn't as big as it is for quite some time in Europe. Eventhough fuel prices went up in the US the last couple of years, prices are still a joke compared to European fuel prices. Beacuse of that, American cars are still suffering from those environmental taxes that some countries have.

    Another reason why American cars weren't very popular here, is that they used to be a lot bigger, compared to European and Asian cars. Arguably too big for our small roads and parking spaces, although all cars are getting big nowadays... And last but not least, the dealer networks are often a problem. Often, cars are only available via grey import, which can be a problem and support from US manufacturers isn't known to be very good either. At least in the past.

    Personally  i think that American manufacturers have missed some oppertunities in the past to do something about the general image of American cars in Europe. But even when they try to make a car that's aimed at the European markets (Cadillac ATS for example), their sales figures remind very low. Another bad example is Chrysler trying to sell their cars as rebadged Lancias... Very bad idea!!

    For some reason it just doesn't seem to work for American manufacturers, no matter what they try (if they ever try...). The only exception is the Jeep Grand Cherokee at the moment. That's becoming a very popluar car. And not only the SRT model, but even more so the 3.0 diesel. I see them a lot here on the Swiss roads. Not sure if that is due to the managing hand of Fiat or just because it actually is a very nice car, which it definitely is. 


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    Suzy, Ford constantly and "slowly" upgraded the GT500 engine to unbelievable (and reliable) power levels. This engine is good for (reliable!) 1000 horses, so do the math. I contacted several GT500 owners in Germany, two of them personally (through a Munich dealer) and every single owner seems to be very happy with their cars. There are barely reliability issues and these cars are driven full throttle on the Autobahn, one even on the track on a regular basis (almost every weekend). The interior is of course not a highlight but I don't buy the car for the interior, I buy it (or better said: wanted to buy it Smiley) for the engine and driving experience. And I can assure you that this car puts a smile on your face, the exhaust tone alone is worth getting it. Also, like I mentioned before, the engine is highly upgradeable. I can add an instant 50 horses (for real) just by playing around with the Trinity and adapting the knock sensor to 100 octane fuel only.

    The problem with the Challenger, like I said before, is the...size. This car looks huge when you stand next to it and this kind of "feels" weird for a Coupe. The Mustang is different, everything seems to look OK.

    The new Hellcat engine in the Challenger still needs to prove it's reliability. Chrysler added some fine components (latest gen 8-speed auto from ZF, ZF differential, huge Brembo brakes, etc.) but this doesn't say anything about the engine and drivetrain reliability, it remains to be seen. The Challenger and Charger Hellcat needed AWD and I think Chrysler made a huge mistake by not offering AWD at least as an option and at least for the Charger. It will frustrate a lot of people, especially in the US, where traction is more important than in Europe (we have the Autobahn here, which is kind of more important than 0-60 mph red light "races" if you get my point). Looking at those Challenger Hellcat YouTube videos over and over again, I just don't understand how a 700+ hp car can't go from 0-60 mph under 4 seconds (actually, in these videos, the Hellcat Challenger has trouble getting under 4.5 seconds) and the Quartermile under 11 seconds.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    Please, don't get me wrong, i never said that reliabillity is or would be a problem with American cars. In fact, I think that reliabillity is one of the strongest points.

    What I was talking about is the refinement and build quality of the car itself. As you probably know, I'm quite sensible to these kind of things (OCD??). Panel gaps that aren't correctly aligned or are just too big, use of material in the interior of a car, rattles, squakes, etc. These things are more important to me than the power of an engine and are also things that can drive me crazy if it isn't the way how I like it to be. I don't really care much about quarter mile times or top speed of a car. The 0-100km/h time is actually the only thing that I look at and I find it nice to have a car with a nice push when accelerating from 80-120 for example (That's why I'm perfectly allright to have a reasonably powerful diesel engine in my daily driver). I have ten times more fun driving a Boxster in a slightly spirited way on a mountain pass than driving a 911 Turbo at 280km/h on the Autobahn, just to give an example. I'm not really a powerjunkie, eventhough  i certainly like  fast and very powerful cars.

    Without a doubt will a GT500 put a smile on my face. i love the growl of big American V8s. It's just that I couldn't live with a modern car that I think has cheap looking interior or a squaking driver's seat. I guess for most of you, these things aren't that big of a problem. Strange thing is that I don't bother about these things when it's an old car. Probably because  my expectations are different.... 


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    If you want good interior, refinement and build quality, you need to look at the new Mustang. Unfortunately I had the chance to listen to the new Mustang V8 exhaust (not the Shelby version since there is none yet...or ever) and it sounds really dull, not even close to the last Shelby models or even the V8 models.

    Btw: I also found a 302 Boss Laguna Seca Edition, very nice car but almost the same price as the GT500. Crazy.

    I still hope to be able to convince my wife to get one (this isn't about her "allowing" the purchase, this is about her parking her X3 outside in the cold angry) but chances are slim. Maybe my son can convince her, he already cried a lot in front of her (his "gameplay" indecision) and he refused to talk to her (which believe it or not, is also part of his "gameplay"). Let's see how good he is, so far, no success. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    Wait for the new SVT Mustang with the "Coyote" V8. Leaked is that it has a flat plane crankshaft with a 9000rpm rev limit. etc..

    But just some "free" advice.....Maybe your wife likes to keep her car in the garage for a variety of reasons, so  I wouldn't push that kind of a trade too far......OTOH Porsche Turbos thrive outdoors, some say they are actually get faster from staying outside.indecision


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    nberry:

    FWIW, because something is American build doesn't mean it is poor quality. European's are getting arrogant and frankly annoying believing they have a monopoly on building quality fast cars.crying

    Nick, as a lawyer, you would be surprised how many (technical) differences there are between many US models sold in the US and the very same cars sold officially in Europe. The German TÜV makes sure that cars are safe at any speeds and there are specific laws with very specific technical ground rules. Of course I could put a V8 into a Boxster if I want to but it would require a certification, which incl. testing, etc.. It would get very very expensive. Besides the fact that most people would consider me nuts. Smiley

    For example, I plan to get a stroker kit for my Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT. This means that the engine capacity of the engine will be raised from 6.4 l to 7.3 l. The benefit is additional power (official claim is 557 hp but unofficially and with some tweaks to the knock sensor/etc. to adapt to 100 octane fuel, the engine produces slightly over 600 hp) at almost the same level of reliability because the torque increases only slightly and additional stress to the drivetrain/etc. is very limited. To be able to sell this stroker kit, my dealer had to certify it. They had to build a car, to test it, to provide test data, durability test data, dyno data, etc. etc. etc. This wasn't cheap, not something any dealer or even a private person could do, simply because it would cost too much but also because you need experience. My dealer sold a couple of these kits already, he usually sells ready tuned cars with full warranty. This is a huge benefit. Everything comes with TÜV and it is fully street legal. Just keep in mind that I drive at speeds way over 150 mph in this 2.5 ton truck, fully loaded (3 tons), on the Autobahn. Everything has to work properly, there is no error margin.

    Now my dealer decided to add a blower (supercharger) to the stroker kit, with a very low boost level. Power increase will be around 50 hp "only", to keep everything reliable. Everything above this power level would compromise safety and reliability according to their own testing and TÜV testing. Now take a look to the US and tell me what happens with some Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT over there. I've seen advertisements for 700, 800 and even 1000 hp tuning kits. Now tell me this is safe. I doubt it. This is why we have the TÜV, we don't want maniacs driving around in their super tuned cars, putting their lives and other lives in danger on public roads.

    This is also one of the reasons some US high performance (or better said high power) cars are not officially available in Germany. The certification process is very expensive and the necessary modifications sometimes too but the manufacturers also need to guarantee the safety of the car under any driving conditions and this is where some manufacturers just don't want to risk it. They let grey market importers do the job, the Mustang GT500 Shelby is a good example for that. The car needs the track package to be really "high speed "proof over here, also other mods like a different chassis (or at least the optional performance package with electronic Bilstein dampers is recommended) or the Watt link which makes the rear axle more stable under certain driving conditions. 

    Example: I drove with a standard (no track, no performance package) GT500 Shelby on my favorite Autobahn and there is a curve I usually do at around 290 kph in my Turbo S without taking any sweat. I got sweaty palms in the GT500...at 230 kph in the same curve. Smiley It is also no secret that without the track package and the three additional coolers, the GT500 looses power and may even get serious differential and gearbox issues at high temperatures and high Autobahn speeds. Just saying...

    In the past, also many US cars got different (larger) brakes for the European market or high performance tires instead of all-season tires. Just examples.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    JimFlat6:

    Wait for the new SVT Mustang with the "Coyote" V8. Leaked is that it has a flat plane crankshaft with a 9000rpm rev limit. etc..

    Ford plans to offer all Mustang models in Europe too. Meaning: I doubt that I will get a 672 hp Mustang for 71k EUR. Smiley

    But just some "free" advice.....Maybe your wife likes to keep her car in the garage for a variety of reasons, so  I wouldn't push that kind of a trade too far......OTOH Porsche Turbos thrive outdoors, some say they are actually get faster from staying outside.indecision

    My wife has no issues with my cars, she couldn't care less. She is happy I have this hobby. The problem is really winter time, when it gets very cold and she has to drive early in the morning to bring the kids to school. We also have snow and when it snows over night, she has to clean the car if it sits outside the house. I get it and this is why I didn't push. My son however doesn't seem to give up and I cannot say I hate it. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    RC:
    JimFlat6:

    Wait for the new SVT Mustang with the "Coyote" V8. Leaked is that it has a flat plane crankshaft with a 9000rpm rev limit. etc..

    Ford plans to offer all Mustang models in Europe too. Meaning: I doubt that I will get a 672 hp Mustang for 71k EUR. Smiley

    But just some "free" advice.....Maybe your wife likes to keep her car in the garage for a variety of reasons, so  I wouldn't push that kind of a trade too far......OTOH Porsche Turbos thrive outdoors, some say they are actually get faster from staying outside.indecision

    My wife has no issues with my cars, she couldn't care less. She is happy I have this hobby. The problem is really winter time, when it gets very cold and she has to drive early in the morning to bring the kids to school. We also have snow and when it snows over night, she has to clean the car if it sits outside the house. I get it and this is why I didn't push. My son however doesn't seem to give up and I cannot say I hate it. Smiley Smiley

    Be sure to order her next car with 'standheizung /-lüftung'!

    Best option there is! I don't want a car anymore without it, if it is available. In winter my car is warm and snow-/ice free. In summer the car is cool, when it is baking outside in the sun. Normally my car sits in the garage, but when i'm out shopping or whatever and I have to park the car somewhere, it is so nice to step into a car that's at the right temperature Smiley


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    Suzy, Christian thanks for the responses. So if Christian bought his Mustang in the US and shipped it to Germany what would be the financial impact if any.

    Christian, a piece of advice. Don't force your wife to get in a cold car each morning to do family chores. Each one of those days will be hell for you. You and your son will have to let it go.


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    nberry:

    Suzy, Christian thanks for the responses. So if Christian bought his Mustang in the US and shipped it to Germany what would be the financial impact if any.

    Christian, a piece of advice. Don't force your wife to get in a cold car each morning to do family chores. Each one of those days will be hell for you. You and your son will have to let it go.

    Smiley I agree but if my son doesn't let go...I can't do anything about it. Smiley Smiley My wife kind of does everything he wants...mothers and sons. Smiley

    Right now we are looking for an underground (closed) garage space somewhere in the vicinity, this could be a solution. My neighbor is a car nut too and has various cars (Maserati, Porsche, etc.) and a couple of motorcycles too and he also rented garage spaces in the vicinity because he has only two parking spaces in his small garage. This could be a solution, especially since the Shelby would be a weekend fun car only. Let's see how this works out but I'm not even sure if the Shelby I found is even available anymore. Demand is pretty high right now in Germany because there won't be any more Shelby Mustangs in the future.

    As to the financial impact of buying a Mustang GT500 Shelby in the US: I was actually thinking about getting one in the US and shipping it to Germany but it isn't worth it. There is a US car dealer in Munich who could do the "conversion" job (to comply with EU/TÜV regulations) and even my Jeep dealer could do it (he isn't specialized in Ford cars but he has a lot of experience with various US models, incl. Ford) but I wouldn't really save much money, maybe a couple of thousands if I am lucky.

    Actually, I fell in love with a Shelby Super Snake, I found two cars in Munich, brand-new. The dealer is asking around 145k EUR for each...ouch. No way I am going to pay that much. I will however, if I go for the Shelby, try to convert the Shelby into a Super Snake over time. The parts are available in Germany, TÜV certification isn't an issue (it has been done before, lucky me) but the cost would be around 20k EUR. A visual conversion would be more expensive but I'm not sure I would want that anyway as I am more into the technical mods.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    SuzyF:
     

    Be sure to order her next car with 'standheizung /-lüftung'!

    Best option there is! I don't want a car anymore without it, if it is available. In winter my car is warm and snow-/ice free. In summer the car is cool, when it is baking outside in the sun. Normally my car sits in the garage, but when i'm out shopping or whatever and I have to park the car somewhere, it is so nice to step into a car that's at the right temperature Smiley


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     

    We had "Standheizung" (preheating system) on two SUVs and our experience is not really good. When it worked, it was great but unfortunately it didn't always work and sometimes the remote showed an activation but when we got to the car, the car was cold. One system was an OEM system (ordered with the car) and the other one had been retrofitted. Both were made by the Webasto market leader, so quality shouldn't have been an issue.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    RC:
    SuzyF:
     

    Be sure to order her next car with 'standheizung /-lüftung'!

    Best option there is! I don't want a car anymore without it, if it is available. In winter my car is warm and snow-/ice free. In summer the car is cool, when it is baking outside in the sun. Normally my car sits in the garage, but when i'm out shopping or whatever and I have to park the car somewhere, it is so nice to step into a car that's at the right temperature Smiley


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     

    We had "Standheizung" (preheating system) on two SUVs and our experience is not really good. When it worked, it was great but unfortunately it didn't always work and sometimes the remote showed an activation but when we got to the car, the car was cold. One system was an OEM system (ordered with the car) and the other one had been retrofitted. Both were made by the Webasto market leader, so quality shouldn't have been an issue.

    That's indeed not a nice experience.  I haven't had any problems so far. It's my second car that's equipped with it and I absolutely love it. Also the cooling function in summer.


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    So far, I haven't been lucky. No parking space for me. surprise I tried all parking garages in the neighborhood.

    Funny: My local Mercedes sales person is one of my customers. Today he came in and when I told him about the Mustang, he asked me why I don't get a Mercedes C63 Coupe again, especially since the new car will come with a turbocharged engine and the current C63 AMG Coupe is the last one with a N/A V8. Half an hour later, he called by phone and offered me a C63 AMG Coupe Edition 507 with only 9500 km for 72k EUR. Wow. The car comes with two years factory warranty because it was a dealership car. Now I started to think about this car, he sent me some photos via email and it looks amazing. Very nice suede leather steering wheel, full options, car is in perfect condition. I could actually use this car even for driving to the office, so it is very tempting.

    Still the same problem though: No garage space.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    RC.... stay calm! You dont want an AMG C63 just because the good salesman has one to offer. What you want is sugar on your mind, having young people standing around your car, being not a stereotype Mercedes driver. Being the cool guy with the extremely rare and cool car. You already have a fast car - probably fastest car you can buy from Germany - as you said, what you miss is the time to drive it. Take your 991 to the office - people know that you have one anyway or park around the corner. If people care about the Porsche, they care about an AMG, too! Dont underestimate people, they understand difference between a C200 and a C63. Or - just get that US car - no jealousy at all - being the poor guy not able anymore to afford fast German cars ;)

    If you really want a special car then get a Mustang! The C63 is still a C-Class - the same car the granny around the corner owns. Not even young mothers are driving a C class. Check the schoolyard how many mothers are picking up their kids in a C-Class - ZERO - its the utmost granny car in the whole line up. Yes - its a bit to strong that statement as the C63 is a bit different - but hey.... you wanted to know our opinion! And at the end its a C-Class!

    btw... .dont tell me its fun.... yes it is, but your 991 Turbo S is the top of the range - in fun!

     


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    Have you though of covering part of your driveway? Not the same as a garage but better than nothing.

    507 C63 might hold its value really well. Last high output NA engine, all the suspension and transmission tricks. Its a great car.


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    I'm starting to think there is something very wrong with the Porsche Turbo S.  If I had one I would not really give a hoot about a C63, Mustang, Hellcat, etc.  This should come as really bad news for Porsche.  It is like being married to a supermodel and lusting after the fat neighbor lady.Smiley


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    Leawood911:

    ....  It is like being married to a supermodel and lusting after the fat neighbor lady.Smiley

    SmileySmiley 

    Dont ask me how many of my buddys are having that supermodel at home and still enjoy the sexual fantasies with their neighbors ladies Smiley

    And I guess it is exactly the same reason... always the same supermodel is boring.... sometimes you need something else - if you have 911s since 15 yrs (also like myself) you just get bored. Especially the new one is so boring as it is so perfect-ionized and sleek.


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    Christian, lack of garage space controls my car buying impulses. I am ok with that.indecision


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    Leawood911:

    I'm starting to think there is something very wrong with the Porsche Turbo S.  If I had one I would not really give a hoot about a C63, Mustang, Hellcat, etc.  This should come as really bad news for Porsche.  It is like being married to a supermodel and lusting after the fat neighbor lady.Smiley

    The problem is that it is not enough fun. Ownership experience is not what it should be especially for a $200k car. That's why I have not bought any 911 for 11 years... Yes cars like Ferraris AM or even Mustang are not as perfect as recent Porsches. But they are more fun... I never regretted selling our 911. Yet I can't come to terms with selling our 7 years old AM or 10 year old 612, even the 7 years old Mini is still in the garage... But the 911 and the two Cayennes are gone...


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    RC:

    So far, I haven't been lucky. No parking space for me. surprise I tried all parking garages in the neighborhood.

    Funny: My local Mercedes sales person is one of my customers. Today he came in and when I told him about the Mustang, he asked me why I don't get a Mercedes C63 Coupe again, especially since the new car will come with a turbocharged engine and the current C63 AMG Coupe is the last one with a N/A V8. Half an hour later, he called by phone and offered me a C63 AMG Coupe Edition 507 with only 9500 km for 72k EUR. Wow. The car comes with two years factory warranty because it was a dealership car. Now I started to think about this car, he sent me some photos via email and it looks amazing. Very nice suede leather steering wheel, full options, car is in perfect condition. I could actually use this car even for driving to the office, so it is very tempting.

    Still the same problem though: No garage space.

    RC, you know that the Shelby will end up costing you a trillion when you start to add Supersnake kit, and when that is not enough you take a few steps further. A friend of mine is now on his 3rd engine build with his Ford GT and touching 1200 WHP - these muscle cars can never get enough and the opportunities to tune are many. None of it will be recovered when you sell the Shelby one day, whereas the "507" will depreciate from a completely different level.

    I drove a number of the C63's on and off track and the "507" is just so much more refined and focused. So much that when I was offered a standard version for a weekend to test, I was really dissapointed Smiley

    You know better what you want, but the 507 is a brilliant car.


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    The Shelby has the advantage that I can always add something new to it...when I am bored. Also, everything is possible with original Shelby parts, no need to get some questionable third party aftermarket parts. Which of course would diminish the value of the original car. I found another Shelby in a less "in your face" color and without stripes and I think I fell in love with it. Still looking for a parking space but I may actually have found one (let's see).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    The grey one looks really close in color to your Turbo S. Without stripes they look pretty sinister.


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    RC, I think the truth is that you are simply not satisfied with your Turbo S. I can understand that, the Turbo S may be one of the fastest cars on earth, but where does this count? Where do you need this kind of performance? How often do you encounter a similar car? We buy sport cars (mostly) not because of the performance, but for the way it makes us feel. After a test drive with the Turbo S, I was deeply impressed by the performance. I was not impressed by the way it made me feel, by the sound, by the engine noise. You adapt very fast to performance and you always want more. So for a short time, the Turbo is an amazing thing. And after that it's just a very expensive 911 with the same interior like all other 911s and Boxsters and so on.

    Now you want to compensate that lack of emotion with another car. Don't do that. From what I've read, you're using the Turbo S not as your go-to-work car. So you will end with two weekend or fun cars. I've done this some years ago, and believe me, it's just a waste of money and time. You will not drive a single mile more than before, instead you're paying for two cars. But you do not have the double amount of fun.

    My personal advice would be to get rid of the Turbo, even if that sounds totally crazy. From what I remember, you have leased the car. Did you ever thought about a GT3 or GT3RS? Those cars will give you a lot of emotions. Or go a complete other way, switch to a 4S or GTS Cabrio when it comes out. Driven with roof open is a completely difference experience. Ah, and don't take a grey one again :) 

    From my experience, Porsche dealers are very flexible, when they have a chance to keep a wealthy, but unhappy customer. 


    --

    911 S Cabrio (2013), Panamera GTS (2013)


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    kiss+1 couldn't agree more! 


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    TomSilver:

    RC, I think the truth is that you are simply not satisfied with your Turbo S. I can understand that, the Turbo S may be one of the fastest cars on earth, but where does this count? Where do you need this kind of performance? How often do you encounter a similar car? We buy sport cars (mostly) not because of the performance, but for the way it makes us feel. After a test drive with the Turbo S, I was deeply impressed by the performance. I was not impressed by the way it made me feel, by the sound, by the engine noise. You adapt very fast to performance and you always want more. So for a short time, the Turbo is an amazing thing. And after that it's just a very expensive 911 with the same interior like all other 911s and Boxsters and so on.

    There is a lot of truth in what you wrote, the emotional side comes from the performance experience only, not from the car, which is entirely true. So in order to enjoy the Turbo S, I have to be fast. Otherwise, the car disappoints, too much perfection (or boredom...interior) is not always good.

    Now you want to compensate that lack of emotion with another car. Don't do that. From what I've read, you're using the Turbo S not as your go-to-work car. So you will end with two weekend or fun cars. I've done this some years ago, and believe me, it's just a waste of money and time. You will not drive a single mile more than before, instead you're paying for two cars. But you do not have the double amount of fun.

    True and I came to the same conclusion but the Shelby is not just another fun car (there would be many fun cars I would like to drive/own) but a dream car from my younger days. Also, my son is completely into muscle (pony) cars and having something in common with your kid is sometimes worth gold. Smiley The Shelby would be a toy sitting around, knowing I own it and knowing I can drive it whenever I want. It would also be a toy playing with, there are so many little things you can add/mod on this car, it is unbelievable. An ongoing tuning/mod "project".

    My personal advice would be to get rid of the Turbo, even if that sounds totally crazy. From what I remember, you have leased the car. Did you ever thought about a GT3 or GT3RS? Those cars will give you a lot of emotions. Or go a complete other way, switch to a 4S or GTS Cabrio when it comes out. Driven with roof open is a completely difference experience. Ah, and don't take a grey one again :) 

    The GT3 RS would be useless to me without the rear seats. Even if my wife and daughter don't drive often with us (me and my son) in the Turbo S, they still do it from time to time. With a two seater, this would be impossible and I would have even less time for driving. However, just out of curiosity, I asked my dealer to try to find someone who would take over my lease contract. On the other hand, this would be a financial loss because I would have to compromise and I am pretty sure that at some point, especially when I meet with some of my crazy (car) friends, I would miss the Turbo S. Right now, the plan would be to keep both and yes, I know that this is an expensive solution. This is why I want to buy the Shelby, not lease it because I want to keep this car.

    Getting a GTS Cab? I did that once and really thought I would enjoy it but I missed the power of the Turbo. Smiley

    From my experience, Porsche dealers are very flexible, when they have a chance to keep a wealthy, but unhappy customer. 

    True. My lease switch from the Cayenne GTS to the Boxster S was quite OK, didn't loose anything but I doubt it is going to be the same with the 991 Turbo S. Also, like I said, I love the Turbo S but I only get attracted by driving it when I'm with other friends because we drive fast and have fun together. Driving this car alone or with my son was a lot of fun but lately, not so much. Like you said, I got used to the power, even motorcycles are barely a challenge and to enjoy this car, I really have to be fast. In the Jeep GC SRT, I even enjoy cruising because the car sounds so nice and if feels like a tank. It provides a different kind of emotions of course but the emotions are there. The Turbo S provides emotions when I am fast in it but like you said, I cannot drive recklessly or risk my driver's license just to feel some emotions. Smiley Also, driving top speed on the Autobahn isn't really what I love in the Turbo S, this is something very common for me. Everyone can drive fast on straights, thats not the point and the speed limit on country roads is 100 kph, so I have to find some with lots of narrow curves and less trees. Smiley Smiley

    So far, my decision isn't final yet but getting a GT3 RS or GT3 won't help, I am pretty sure about it. The Shelby is a different kind of car and it won't loose much value over time. 

    Difficult decision indeed and if money wouldn't be of concern to me, I would have taken the Shelby already. Even if the Shelby doesn't cost a fortune, it still is a substantial amount of money and I cannot spend if without thinking twice (or two hundred times Smiley) about it. Another problem is that if I buy this car, my car choices over the next 2-3 years will be very limited. Meaning: If Chrysler puts a Jeep GC SRT Hellcat on the market or if Porsche decides offer something interesting or if any other car attracts me, I cannot get it. However, I think I am getting old because while I always liked Porsche (you guys know that), nothing attracts me more than that damn Shelby GT500 right now. Crazy. Smiley Maybe I have a midlife crisis and instead of a Harley, I want that Shelby. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    If your Turbo S had a manual gearbox I doubt you would be wanting a Shelby as much as you now do. For all of Porsche's sophisticated engineering and advanced systems integration, that PDK box is so good that you really don't have to use the paddles to get max results and I think that does remove a large piece of emotional involvement.  I get the autobox makes sense of a sedan or SUV but for a sports car it leaves some drama missing.  Jaguar has figured that out and so they are going to offer manuals in their F types, here is one testing at the Ring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGIRXGl01kc


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    What RC needs is a used FF...


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    2nd that.

     


    --

     


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    If the Shelby would have some sort of PDK, I would have loved it even more. Even much more with AWD.

    I did it...got the Shelby yesterday, will pick it up this Friday with my son.

    How could I say no to this? indecision (this is actually the real engine bay of my car, the air filter will be exchanged with a blue one, CAI will follow later on, haven't decided on tuning yet).

    1409478882445engine.jpg

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: The "Hellcat" has arrived

    SciFrog:

    What RC needs is a used FF...

    Nope. Then what would I need the 991 Turbo S for? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
    748091 2849
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 8/11/21 2:00 PM
    throt
     
     
     
     
     
    451130 1287
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 9/20/21 9:51 PM
    nberry
    166235 1099
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 9/17/21 8:59 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    65427 380
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 9/20/21 8:07 AM
    RCA
    54074 511
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    46469 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
    42931 380
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    11976 29
    Porsche Cayman GT4 5/4/21 4:46 PM
    Topspeed
    464748 3586
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 6/25/21 2:56 PM
    the-missile
    384787 3506
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 8/12/21 4:57 PM
    Topspeed
    381254 3918
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
    347192 3252
    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
    336099 4279
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
    316998 2646
    Porsche 992 GT3 9/17/21 4:41 PM
    lexs4
    262352 2975
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 7/20/21 3:10 PM
    Topspeed
    249808 1567
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    167398 1379
    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
    143206 792
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    117910 1225
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 9/20/21 10:36 PM
    Grant
    101497 741
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 7/5/21 4:30 PM
    BjoernB
    92138 1221
    McLaren F1 7/10/21 7:43 AM
    BiTurbo
    82009 209
    Lambo Aventador and SV 8/27/21 2:33 PM
    Topspeed
    71318 698
    AMG AMG GT R 7/8/21 3:07 PM
    CGX car nut
    71127 824
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    50547 596
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 9/14/21 1:11 PM
    BjoernB
    47163 1165
    Others Bugatti Chiron 7/22/21 6:55 PM
    Topspeed
    41891 480
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 6/24/21 6:30 PM
    Porker
    39699 531
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    38430 615
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 7/7/21 8:38 PM
    Jim_in_Iowa
    30389 394
    270 items found, displaying 1 to 30.