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    0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    The latest issue of Autoweek has a report on the Carrera S, which just joined their long-term test fleet. They did some initial testing, in 9 0-60mph runs they recorded the fastest at 4.33sec. and the slowest at 4.63sec., withe 6 runs in the 4.4+sec. range. Their technique was to release the clutch at 3500rpm, with almost no wheel spin.
    Overall they loved the car, not surprising.....

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Thanks 964C2!

    Those numbers appear to be consistent with other tests.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    That's awfully quick! They also tested the Cayman S in that issue and said it was more of an enthusiast driver's car than the 997...

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Bare in mind that if its Autoweek, then they tested it very recently in the summer heat.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Bare in mind that if its Autoweek, then they tested it very recently in the summer heat.


    Good point - lots of tire traction, but the motor won't make its best power...

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    i dont think that car was broken in, it makes a big difference. ive seen 3.9sec 0-60mph from R&T.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Here's another way to look at it. To say that car mags do it in 4.2 seconds is like saying the Space shuttle travels at 10,000mph. Unless you're an astrobaut 10K mPH means nothing, it is too abstract.

    Better to find out how fast YOUR car goes 0-60 with YOU driving it.

    will do two things:

    make you aware of how abusive you are willing to be with your own car to shave off a ridiculous .5 seconds (that's 1/2 half second!)

    and make you realise how BAD a driver you are OR how irrelevant those carmag tests are.

    If you track your car those tenths will add up and none of this applies.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    ..and furthermore, Road & Track does NOT powershift when testing cars. I've often wondered how well the CGT acceleration times would stand up against the Enzo's if they were both tested with the same type of transmission. Even with powershifting, a manual tranny can't possibly be shifted as quickly as the Enzo's F1 transmission.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Impressive nonetheless...


    It's one of those things that's nice to have and not need...

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Quote:
    tooner said:
    Impressive nonetheless...


    It's one of those things that's nice to have and not need...



    Yeah..., you're right (I guess I was tired when I wrote that). Those kind of objective comps between cars are useful for entertaining talk about cars with friends.

    Just as long as they are not using MY car to conduct those tests.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    But it is baseline when you compare it to other mags. They abuse all cars to get the best times, so we don't have to!

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Quote:
    MMD said: Here's another way to look at it. To say that car mags do it in 4.2 seconds is like saying the Space shuttle travels at 10,000mph. Unless you're an astrobaut 10K mPH means nothing, it is too abstract.

    Better to find out how fast YOUR car goes 0-60 with YOU driving it.

    will do two things:

    make you aware of how abusive you are willing to be with your own car to shave off a ridiculous .5 seconds (that's 1/2 half second!)

    and make you realise how BAD a driver you are OR how irrelevant those carmag tests are.

    If you track your car those tenths will add up and none of this applies.





    I like your logic. Good points.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    MMD- I'd have to respectfully disagree.
    1. If a magazine tests two cars and one goes 0-60 in 5.0 and the other one goes 0-60 in 5.5, the first car is quicker. Maybe the average person can't drive as well as the test driver but that would be the same with either car. The times may vary from driver to driver but the same car should win every time.
    2. The magazine test drivers aren't gods and I don't make the assumption that they can drive a car 0-60 any faster than you or I can.
    3. By the way, a friend of mine who's an astronaut told me there's no sensation of speed at 10,000 mph. However on lift off, he experiences 8.5 G's for 3.5 minutes and he definitely feels that!

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    MMD- I'd have to respectfully disagree.




    Yes, no problem.

    We're just chatting, trying to figure something out. No final conclusions.

    I just look at it this way. I'm driving a major Porsche model. I don't have anything to prove to anybody.

    The tenths-of-seconds thing is maybe too abstract for me to get excited about.

    However when the upcoming models of 997 Carreras come out and they happen to have 400HP THEN I'll start wondering... .

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Here's another way to look at it. To say that car mags do it in 4.2 seconds is like saying the Space shuttle travels at 10,000mph. Unless you're an astrobaut 10K mPH means nothing, it is too abstract.

    Better to find out how fast YOUR car goes 0-60 with YOU driving it.

    will do two things:

    make you aware of how abusive you are willing to be with your own car to shave off a ridiculous .5 seconds (that's 1/2 half second!)

    and make you realise how BAD a driver you are OR how irrelevant those carmag tests are.

    If you track your car those tenths will add up and none of this applies.



    That is the reason why many of us will be faster in a tiptronic car. Or we need cars like BMW M with launch control.

    AM

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Powershifting is the act of shifting without releasing throttle. I find it to be quite unnecessary, and sometimes counter-productive as hitting the rev-limiter can cause the ECM to retard timing, fuel pressure, and all sorts of things that can cause a minute power-rob in the ensuing gear.

    Speedshifting takes more hand-foot coordination, and is my technique of choice. The act of clutch release/engagement is properly timed with a small release of throttle, enough to keep the throttle up in the power curve but without nailing the rev-limiter. This all happens so fast, that you either have the coordination and ability to do it well, or you don't. When done properly, the act of shifting a gear takes no longer than it takes to stab and release the clutch pedal as fast as your leg can zip it. Everything your shift-hand, and both legs are doing, are done in concert, as one fluid motion simultaneously, as fast as you can swing the levers. The shift lever is leaving the existing gear as the clutch is traveling down, and it is entering the new gear as the clutch is swinging up. As fast as you can stab that clutch pedal, you can time a shift to blend perfectly, with the clutch disengaged from the pressure plate only for the nano-second it takes to engage the next gear.

    Anybody who shifts in conscious "steps", as in, "1. let off the gas, then 2. depress the clutch, then 3. shift into the next gear, then 4. release the clutch pedal and 5. apply gas"... ANYBODY who goes through that thought process and physical progression when they drive a manual shift car, needs to get off the drag strip, put their keys in their pocket, and watch from the stands and have a beer. In all due respect, you're hopeless out there. Just don't assume that EVERYBODY is as inept as you, and try to convince everybody that there's no way to beat an auto-shift car. I've never driven Ferrari's F1 paddle-shift system, but I hear it's fast. I HAVE driven BMW's, on an M3, and it is pathetically slow. I could shift a John Deer tractor with a coffee in-between my legs faster than BMW's paddle-shift setup. If you think the BMW is a fast shifter, again, you're not likely ever going to be a maistro with a manual gearbox.

    With that all said, and I realize that I'm just outlining the obvious to those out there who are handy with a shifter and a clutch pedal, The Autoweek test does indeed lend more credibility to the Road & Track 3.9 second figure. 4.33 seconds, in the summer heat, launching at 3500 rpm. First off, in a rear engine 997 with such fat tires and a torque curve that would do better with a higher rpm launch, that is a CONSERVATIVE launch. There's at least a couple tenths to be had with a more aggressive launch. And yes, you would be really hammering on the driveline, and taking a risk, no doubt. But it's possible, nonetheless. Also, take at least another tenth for hot humid weather. In the 1/4 mile run, I typically run 3 to 4 tenths slower than the dryest coolest days in the winter in Florida. So one tenth in 0-60 is a conservative given.

    Anyhow, those are my observations. Lastly, to toot my own horn a bit more!! LOL , I've got to tell you that beating magazine times at the dragstrip is no big deal. To suggest that nobody here can compete with the drivers at the magazines is to set the bar REALLY LOW for us non-magazine drivers. They test cars using driving techniques that are easily duplicated again and again, so that their statistics stand up to internal comparison between makes and models, and so that they have a level of standardization. Out on the dragstrip in your own car, it's anything-goes, and you can experiment with any number of techniques to realize gains in time. I've never owned a new car that I couldn't beat the best magazine time out there, in 100% stock form. This fall, when temps cool down in Florida, I'll head up to Gainesville Raceway (it's an NHRA sanctioned, top-quality track that I've competed at most of my life) with my fully-broken-in 997S and give her a few passes. I've got the R&T 12.30-something @ 114.7 (I'm quoting from memory here) to beat, which will be a sonofabitch to best, I'll admit right now. That was one hell of a run that R&T laid down. This is one case where I may choose to abort mission if I determine after the 1st couple passes that it will require overt abuse to my drivetrain to get a launch that will give me the needed elapsed time. It would be the 1st time I've failed to take the magazine's best times, and smoke 'em. But I'll give her a shot and see what happens.

    Yes, all these times are irrelevant if you're not able to duplicate them in your own car, with you driving. My purpose in my post was to explain, that, many of us have no problem getting those times, and typically use the magazine performance figures as "worst-case-scenarios" when shopping for a new car.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Hi 69bossnine,
    Not sure if you're speaking directly to me when you responded to my post. A Ferrari F1 tranny completes a shift in under 150 milliseconds. The new FXX is suppposed to do it closr to 100 milliseconds. You can't speed shift that fast with a manual transmission. Not you, not me, not no one and I've been drag racing at least as long as you.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Considering that 0-60 requires only one shift, I'll start worrying about the advantage of a 100 millisecond shift when 0-60 times are published to the millisecond. Furthermore, there's no guarantee that the factory's launch-program is more aggressive than what could be accomplished manually, so those 100 millisecond shifts could be negated by 300 milliseconds left unused at the starting line. We're splitting hairs here (or milliseconds), to be sure, but your point is well taken. The advantage may be there for the Ferrari, but that advantage may only show up as a couple feet at the end of the track, and there are so many other factors that can likewise rob you of that couple feet. Just because somebody is rowing their own gears, doesn't make them automatically slower. As you and I both know, there's a whole bucket-load of individual factors that have to converge for a perfectly clean and optimal "fastest-possible" run. And as I said, my only experience was with a paddle-shift M3, which was an absolute dog of a gearbox as far as upshifts go.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Oh, BTW, I'm not speaking directly at anybody when I go off on my tangents. Everybody here has always been first-rate.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Oh, BTW, I'm not speaking directly at anybody when I go off on my tangents. Everybody here has always been first-rate.




    Yeah, mee too and I totally agree.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Your points are well taken too 69bossnine. Back in 1962, Dodge and Plymouth drivers found their 413's were quicker at the drags with a Torqueflite transmission because they could launch faster and shift faster than manual tranny cars. I think the Enzo with F1 transmission is quicker than it would be with a stick in the 1/4 mile and, apparently, so does Ferrari. Porsche has a different attitude, as I do. Sports cars should have a manual transmission. Race cars should have whatever is better in a race.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Quote:
    Sports cars should have a manual transmission. Race cars should have whatever is better in a race.



    My sentiments EXACTLY

    Regarding old automatics, it was always a matter of whether the quicker shifts outweighed the increased weight and parasitic drag. In most cases, the loss of rear wheel horsepower more than eliminates the faster shifts.

    What really won over the automatic for use in drag racing was not quickness though... it was CONSISTANCY, as bracket racing has everything to do with repeating the same exact time over and over at a specific dial. Tough to do when you're controlling it all manually, a piece of cake to do with a race converter in an auto.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    That's true bossnine. It's hard to miss a shift with an automatic!

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    Sports cars should have a manual transmission. Race cars should have whatever is better in a race.



    I have SMG in my M3 and I loooooove it. I guess there's nothing sporty about it now. Still, I love screwing around a corner and shifting in an instant at the right moment without any imbalance caused by a heavy leg and jerky arm movement. A few Clicks and down shift pass the bast*rd in a few seconds and then back to normal, no problem. I love being in traffic with it set on "auto" and then transforming the car back again into a monster when the lanes open up. Sounds soooo UN-sporty to me! (kidding).


    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    Sports cars should have a manual transmission. Race cars should have whatever is better in a race.


    I have SMG in my M3 and I loooooove it. I guess there's nothing sporty about it now. Still, I love screwing around a corner and shifting in an instant at the right moment without any imbalance caused by a heavy leg and jerky arm movement. A few Clicks and down shift pass the bast*rd in a few seconds and then back to normal, no problem. I love being in traffic with it set on "auto" and then transforming the car back again into a monster when the lanes open up. Sounds soooo UN-sporty to me! (kidding).



    Sounds like great fun! I must admit that I sometimes sit in stop and go traffic dreaming of an automatic trans.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Oh, and when you guys say cars should have a manual tranny insted of SMG DSG or autos, keep in mind maybe this makes more sense for people who've actually tracked and raced their cars. This would exclude me, unfortunately BTW.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    MMD- I'd have to respectfully disagree.






    I just look at it this way. I'm driving a major Porsche model. I don't have anything to prove to anybody.





    For damn sure!

    I've had this happen to me several times [never bothered to respond]

    - Pulling up to a stoplight and some wannabe racer revs next to me.

    - Cruising on the freeway and some jackass tails you like he needs to see the station you're tuned into

    If I wanted to race I'd be on a track... Like you said... Nothin' to Prove

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    To me, the "fun" is the satisfaction you get from driving a manual-shift car smoothly and seamlessly, evolving yourself from the "heavy leg" and "jerky arm". The challenge of mastering the machine. But then again, my car has friggin PASM, so there's no escaping being a hypocrite in this discussion! LOL!!

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    To me, the "fun" is the satisfaction you get from driving a manual-shift car smoothly and seamlessly, evolving yourself from the "heavy leg" and "jerky arm". The challenge of mastering the machine. But then again, my car has friggin PASM, so there's no escaping being a hypocrite in this discussion! LOL!!


    Wait a minute Boss9er. Don't be so tough on yourself. An automatic transmission does something for you that you could do manually. PASM does something for you that you couldn't do manually. I cried when they took kick starters off of motorcycles but that thread belongs on another board I guess. I too enjoy the heck out of shifting gears for myself and doing it smooooothly puts a grin on my face too.

    Re: 0-60MPH in 4.33sec......

    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    To me, the "fun" is the satisfaction you get from driving a manual-shift car smoothly and seamlessly, evolving yourself from the "heavy leg" and "jerky arm". The challenge of mastering the machine. But then again, my car has friggin PASM, so there's no escaping being a hypocrite in this discussion! LOL!!


    Wait a minute Boss9er. Don't be so tough on yourself. An automatic transmission does something for you that you could do manually. PASM does something for you that you couldn't do manually.


    Well, some Porsche race cars have cockpit adjustable swaybars

     
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