Crown

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

 

What is this talk of gated communities needing xtra power?  Lol. I’m pretty certain that if everyone in my neighborhood charged up their 100 or so miles they used on an average that day using their in home 240 volt outlet for a couple hours at night there would be jubilation by the local power company.  Why on earth do you  have super chargers in neighborhoods?  Wtf. This is not how it works at all. Weird theory. Maybe it’s a Canadian thing. Here in Kansas we have plenty of power and modern powers lines. 😎
 

If many people needed to charge their cars existing infrastructure would, of course, no longer be sufficient. The US energy system is not one of the highlights of the US, BTW... Mostly based on landlines, to start with... 

Landline?  What are your sources?  Many people?  Of course not sufficient??  Even the automakers don’t share your concerns, they worry about batteries.  

There is a fundamental lack of understanding of how these cars are being used and how much they would need to charge at night.  All it takes is 30 amps at 240 volts to charge for 3-4 hours overnight to make up 100 miles of range per day on average.  This is totally doable. Most homes have 200 amp service. So do almost all apartments for dryers etc.  Of course apartment parking lots don’t have 240 volt outlets but that’s because no one needs it right now. The power is there - just needs to be connected. We are not in the back woods and if we handle the max load currently during the day we certainly have capacity to charge cars in the evening. Presently!  Right now - in the US. Everywhere.  As more cars are sold the electric power will have no trouble keeping up at all. Not even close call.  A better understanding of how these cars are used and charged might help.  I charge at around 29 miles per hour from 35 amps for around 2 hours each night, off peak, at 4 cents per kWh.  If every single driver in KC did this each evening it would still be far less than the electric use during our 100 degree summer days with AC running like crazy in each home and business.  The fact is we have so much capacity that in the evening we need to have uses for the excess. It is hard to store when it is not being used.   Car batteries are perfect for this. 
To think that each house or street corner needs a super charger is not correct. That is thinking like gas stations today. If you had a small gas pump in your house that slowly adds gas to your car to top it off each night how many gas stations would you need?  A fraction of them.  
Some of these comments will be fun to read in the future.  Looking forward to reading mine. 

Leawood911:

Speaking of government intervention. If you think we are driving gas powered cars today free of government and big business incentives you might be mistaken.  How do you think we got here?

What is this talk of gated communities needing xtra power?  Lol. I’m pretty certain that if everyone in my neighborhood charged up their 100 or so miles they used on an average that day using their in home 240 volt outlet for a couple hours at night there would be jubilation by the local power company.  Why on earth do you  have super chargers in neighborhoods?  Wtf. This is not how it works at all. Weird theory. Maybe it’s a Canadian thing. Here in Kansas we have plenty of power and modern powers lines. 😎
There is no doubt I bought my car without incentives because it cost a penny a mile to operate and is fast as shit. Today. We can talk in ten or five years and have a laught. I can’t stop laughing about ice cars taking 100 years to mature - guess what a mature car sounds like. Bzzzzzzzz. Hmmmmmmm

I am talking about a random average neighbourhood, not your specific one or anywhere else. 

And not talking about putting a supercharger in a residential neighbourhood, but just the regular level 2 home charger that runs on 240V. 7-9kW/hr draw for each car plugged in. An average house only pulled about 30kW on average per day, that's less than 3kW/hr, charging a EV literally takes 3 times the current draw per hour of a typical house. 

Do you not see a problem there? Transformers for residential neighbourhoods were never sized for such a draw. Yes there are built in head room, but not 4 times the typical current draw head room. 

Charging a EV is not a peak load, it's a constant draw at 30-40A at 240V. Multiple that amount by the whole neighbourhood if everyone has a EV and all charges at night after they come back from work. Not all will need a whole 8-10hours of charging to be full, some will need the full 10 hours while others might only need a couple.  But there will be overlapping time when all the cars are drawing electricity, and most currently installed transformers will not be able to handling the extra loads. 

A newly built residential neighbourhood might already factored in the effect of EV charging and sized their transformers appropriately but most neighbourhoods aren't and will need at least a transformer upgrade, if not extra power lines. 

And the electric companies will easily meet those needs as supply of cars and ownership increase.  This is not the bottle neck. Rather it is a really good reason to get all electric supply up to speed.  Look for it to be a good reason to invest in power companies and the tech around them. 
IMHO the bottleneck is the supply of batteries vs the consumer demand   
This give the power companies a few years lead time. 
I will look deeper into the power figures.  With all the grow lights popping up all over the country we may have to choose between EV and weed. What a liberal dilemma. 

It is not as easy and simple as you think.

Replacing transformers and substations are a big capital investment, for sure the power companies will want to pass the cost to the end users. But their rates are regulated and needed approval for jacking them up to cover the cost of upgrading the grid. 

Then there is the actual supply. With those kind of predicted current draw, new power plants will be needed also. And with the greenie meanies of the world, they are fiercely opposing new power plants. Try getting approval for a new coal fire plant. Not gonna happen. Gas? Same thing. Nuclear? of course not. Not everywhere can support solar plants or wind farms or hydroelectric. As you have seen, nothing can pass in Congress right now. 

Consumer demand will not sky rocket simply because there will be more batteries supplied. Majority of consumers simply don't fit the profile of a EV buyer. With car sharing services, it's cheaper for people that lives inside the city core to just hail a car or use Car2Go than finding parking WITH a plug. Then there are those that lives in apartment complexes, most don't have the infrastructures to support more than a hand full of chargers, if at all. Then there are the people that live in older houses that their wiring cannot support the extra current draw without the home owner spending major money to upgrade, which they won't.

Buddy, take a few step back and look at the big picture. It's not that rosy. 

You are an early adopter, me too. But you are too enthusiastic about the whole thing and lost sight of the whole picture. 

Leawood911:

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

 

What is this talk of gated communities needing xtra power?  Lol. I’m pretty certain that if everyone in my neighborhood charged up their 100 or so miles they used on an average that day using their in home 240 volt outlet for a couple hours at night there would be jubilation by the local power company.  Why on earth do you  have super chargers in neighborhoods?  Wtf. This is not how it works at all. Weird theory. Maybe it’s a Canadian thing. Here in Kansas we have plenty of power and modern powers lines. 😎
 

If many people needed to charge their cars existing infrastructure would, of course, no longer be sufficient. The US energy system is not one of the highlights of the US, BTW... Mostly based on landlines, to start with... 

Landline?  What are your sources?  . 

My own eyes... New York, California, Florida. Power is mostly delivered with landlines. These landlines are also the primary reason for these major fires in California and power outages. You just need a tree to fall on a landline and you already have a big problem.

Whoopsy:

It is not as easy and simple as you think.

Replacing transformers and substations are a big capital investment, for sure the power companies will want to pass the cost to the end users. But their rates are regulated and needed approval for jacking them up to cover the cost of upgrading the grid. 

Then there is the actual supply. With those kind of predicted current draw, new power plants will be needed also. And with the greenie meanies of the world, they are fiercely opposing new power plants. Try getting approval for a new coal fire plant. Not gonna happen. Gas? Same thing. Nuclear? of course not. Not everywhere can support solar plants or wind farms or hydroelectric. As you have seen, nothing can pass in Congress right now. 

Consumer demand will not sky rocket simply because there will be more batteries supplied. Majority of consumers simply don't fit the profile of a EV buyer. With car sharing services, it's cheaper for people that lives inside the city core to just hail a car or use Car2Go than finding parking WITH a plug. Then there are those that lives in apartment complexes, most don't have the infrastructures to support more than a hand full of chargers, if at all. Then there are the people that live in older houses that their wiring cannot support the extra current draw without the home owner spending major money to upgrade, which they won't.

Buddy, take a few step back and look at the big picture. It's not that rosy. 

You are an early adopter, me too. But you are too enthusiastic about the whole thing and lost sight of the whole picture. 

 

 

Well said, Nick.

Lots of new construction going on here in Germany and there are serious issues installing chargers, issues mostly related to net capacity but also some local laws (for example installing chargers in larger closed garages).

There is a reason my local Porsche dealer doesn't have one of those fancy 800V chargers. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

 

What is this talk of gated communities needing xtra power?  Lol. I’m pretty certain that if everyone in my neighborhood charged up their 100 or so miles they used on an average that day using their in home 240 volt outlet for a couple hours at night there would be jubilation by the local power company.  Why on earth do you  have super chargers in neighborhoods?  Wtf. This is not how it works at all. Weird theory. Maybe it’s a Canadian thing. Here in Kansas we have plenty of power and modern powers lines. 😎
 

If many people needed to charge their cars existing infrastructure would, of course, no longer be sufficient. The US energy system is not one of the highlights of the US, BTW... Mostly based on landlines, to start with... 

Landline?  What are your sources?  . 

My own eyes... New York, California, Florida. Power is mostly delivered with landlines. These landlines are also the primary reason for these major fires in California and power outages. You just need a tree to fall on a landline and you already have a big problem.

You mean power lines. Land lines generally refer to the old phone cables. That said I am not familiar with a technology that does not use land lines to transmit power.  In my neighborhood they bury them but it’s still a cable. 
not certain what part of the world you are all from but here in the Midwest there is plenty of night time capacity and building codes to be just fine as this rolls out.   But you all are entitled to your opinions. 
Gen 4 nuclear is where it’s at. It will be coming soon and this electric demand is just the best reason to transition.  Yes these are big investments but that is how the world works. Progress. 

Progress are stifled by greenie meanie people. That's how the world works. 

I think nuclear plants are great, excellent output capacity for next to no pollution, but somehow people are freaked out by the odd chance that something goes wrong, see no farther than Fukushima. 

And I think in the context, and with the German to English translation, his landline refers to power line above grade, like power poles hanging line, as oppose to underground power lines.

Current building codes of course already accounted for higher current draw, it's the old exiting structures that was built to the old code that would be a problem, no one has incentive to spend money to upgrade them to the new code unless being forced to.

The residential electric grid was not designed and equipped for the cumulative effects of overnight EV charging in numerous households.  Even with upgrades to the grid in residential areas, other follow-on effects must also be dealt with to maintain grid stability.  I recall when Tesla was first starting, a close friend was just appointed Director of one of the Regional EPA regions.  Her most pressing matter was looking into how EVs were to impact the grid.  She pointed out that many parts of the grid, even in upscale neighborhoods in metropolitan areas, had equipment nearly a hundred years old  

Recently not too far away from the weekend retreat, high tension towers were replaced because they were 90 years old.    Furthermore, when the new commercial district was expanding rapidly twenty years ago, power blackouts happened with a level of regularity.  A couple of times, the above ground lines caught fire.

Got to drive the Turbo S and nothing really to add above what RC has already said but one thing.  Interior size was smaller than I expected.  My dealer rep drove first and I barely fit in the passenger seat.  My legs were touching the dashboard with the seat fully back.  I'm 1.93m tall so not outrageously tall, but sure taller than average.  You can see in the picture my leg position.  

Overall the car was very impressive, as it should be for $200K.  I could see having it as my daily car, except for the price...Drove it fairly hard for 30min or so and the range only dropped from 239 miles down to 201 miles.  So could easily do my 45 mile daily commute.

CGX car nut:

The residential electric grid was not designed and equipped for the cumulative effects of overnight EV charging in numerous households.  Even with upgrades to the grid in residential areas, other follow-on effects must also be dealt with to maintain grid stability.  I recall when Tesla was first starting, a close friend was just appointed Director of one of the Regional EPA regions.  Her most pressing matter was looking into how EVs were to impact the grid.  She pointed out that many parts of the grid, even in upscale neighborhoods in metropolitan areas, had equipment nearly a hundred years old  

Recently not too far away from the weekend retreat, high tension towers were replaced because they were 90 years old.    Furthermore, when the new commercial district was expanding rapidly twenty years ago, power blackouts happened with a level of regularity.  A couple of times, the above ground lines caught fire.

 

Are there some which need to be upgraded?  Most likely but you guys still don’t understand how much these cars will be charged and how.  Lastly, and this is my point, the bottleneck is not the grid. The grid will improve more quickly than they can put cars on the road to overwhelm it. It is the lack of batteries to make all those cars. The grid will be ready long before that bottleneck is resolved. 
overall the argument now is just when. Not if. Does anyone here really think that internal combustion has a future?  It may take a while but investors need to appreciate that the market reacts instantly. Much sooner than reality.  Are they wrong sometimes?  Sure, but not often and in this case it is a self fulfilling deal if the market thinks it will happen. 

Leawood, just for fun, what is your best guess of how many years it will take for all-electric vehicles to achieve a 25% overall share of the US market? And include in that guess light trucks, heavy trucks, busses, and all types of other work and passenger vehicles.  Also consider all other factors such as grid infrastructure, battery availability, etc. And finally what will Tesla’s share be of that market considering competition from other auto makers?

Leawood911:

Are there some which need to be upgraded?  Most likely but you guys still don’t understand how much these cars will be charged and how.  Lastly, and this is my point, the bottleneck is not the grid. The grid will improve more quickly than they can put cars on the road to overwhelm it. It is the lack of batteries to make all those cars. The grid will be ready long before that bottleneck is resolved. 
overall the argument now is just when. Not if. Does anyone here really think that internal combustion has a future?  It may take a while but investors need to appreciate that the market reacts instantly. Much sooner than reality.  Are they wrong sometimes?  Sure, but not often and in this case it is a self fulfilling deal if the market thinks it will happen. 

If you think upgrading the grid is easy, well then god help you.

Making battery is easy, there is no government policies involved, it's simply buying enough minerals. 

Try building a new power plant. First a study on where to put it. Then another study on the environment impact. Then another study for the impact on the neighbourhood. Then deal with protests. Now IF the project get a green light, then more headaches, bidding for the contracts, suppliers, labour unions. If one starts the process now, you will be lucky to have a new nuclear plant by 2030.

Maybe you will understand more in software terms. 

Plugging in the car into the wall to charge is the easy part. Just like a secretary searching fro a database record in her office. Nothing to it. IF she is the only one or just a handful of secretaries doing that, it's fine. 

Scale that up to a whole floor, say 50. Those instant queries might saturate the 100BaseT network. Yes 100, old wiring) Doesn't quite affect the gigabit back bone yet. But when you combine another 5-10 floors, that will. 

How about a few offices like that? Even if you lay 10Gb wiring snd switches, the server still have to do the query and serves them out. The server may not have enough RAM, or the processor can't keep up. So a new server is needed. 

Is buying a new server that easy? Maybe or maybe not. The request will have to go through the IT department and then the financial department and then the board. Maybe the board will say nah, the secretaries can wait an extra 30 seconds every query. Or the will say yes and buy. But they will put out a request for bid and let a whole bunch of suppliers to bid for the contract. Then more meetings to decide which company gets the contract. 

The contractor building the server is the easy part. Upgrading the infrastructure, i.e. network cables and switch is the hard part.

Interesting article:

Heavy batteries stall plan for electric Porsche 718 Cayman and Boxster

► Our rendering of new e-718
► Plan to electrify Cayman/Boxster stalls
► R&D chief admits batteries too heavy 

Heavy batteries are hindering plans to electrify Porsche's smallest sports cars - and the project has not yet been given the green light, the R&D chief has admitted.

Talking to CAR magazine during the virtual Geneva motor show, Dr Michael Steiner said: 'We are running several electrified Boxsters to gain expertise and knowledge to see how an electric car performs as a two-door. But there is no final decision yet.'

He said that the electric Taycan felt true to the brand, but that transferring that 'Porscheness' to sports cars was a tougher ask. 'The acoustic sound doesn’t really play that huge a role with a GT like the Taycan and adding weight is ok,' he added. 'But the additional weight for a sports car, we are not satisfied with today. This is one of the reasons why our next electric car will be a small SUV not a two-door sports car.'

Next year's new Macan crossover will be a full EV in some territories, while other markets will stick with internal combustion engines. It's a complex engineering cocktail, showing just how tricky it is for manufacturers to satisfy demand in all markets. 

Porsche Taycan electric car review

But surely battery tech will improve - and Porsche will eventually launch electric sports cars?

Steiner said that the sports car EV project was still active, but that it was still some way off. 'In principle if there was a breakthrough in battery technology, something like solid-state batteries - this direction would trigger a two-door sports car fully electrified. But I do not see in the first half of this decade a good chance of a breakthrough in battery technology. We will see step-by-step incremental benefit with lithium-ion batteries.

'We predict a 2-3% improvement year-by-year in lithium-ion battery improvement. I am still not happy with the weight, though. But that does not mean there won’t be a sports car.'

The best electric cars and EVs

The secret electric 718 replacement plans

Porsche isn't hanging around with its electrification strategy and has been quietly looking to electrify its entire range, in time. While the world's attention is firmly upon the Taycan, Stuttgart's first full production electric vehicle (EV), its engineers are busily working on more affordable battery-powered models, even if they haven't yet been given the green light.

The replacements for the entry-level 718 Boxster and Cayman twins could be all-electric if the engineers can get the weight of the e-powertrain down, underlining how serious Zuffenhausen is about jumping onboard the electric battlebus. Our intel suggests the following specs:

• Powertrain  Twin electric motors, rear- or all-wheel drive
• Output  System total 400bhp
• Chassis  Aluminium monocoque
• Due on sale  2023

The current, mostly four-cylinder 718 twins will have to soldier on until 2023 in their current, perhaps facelifted forms.

The company has already indicated that their successors will be electrified and CAR magazine's intel suggests that the e-sports cars will have to share componentry with the wider group, with an Audi TTE and the rebirth of the Lamborghini Uracco mooted.

Porsche and Rimac: how future sports cars will be developed

Porsche’s investment in Rimac is a big deal for its future electrified cars.

While the start-up has had little to do with the Taycan, the first project to come from Stuttgart’s Croatian venture will be the electric Macan then further development with the small sports car project.

The plan is still in its early stages, but engineers only have a few months left to present something to Porsche’s execs. Chief executive officer Oliver Blume has told CAR that the brand has 12 months to either ‘go right or go left’ with regards to the future of the sub-911 sports car.

Will the 911 also go electric?

Porsche execs understand that the time may come for a fully-electric 911, but they don’t want to go messing with a 70-year old icon just yet. Instead, the 992.2 mid-life facelift will include a hybrid option like the Panamera and Cayenne; the platform has been engineered to take an electrified powertrain ahead of time.

But the job of pioneering a fully electric Porsche sports car will fall to the 718 successor.

Lutz Meschke, deputy chairman of Porsche AG, said: ‘In the sports car segment we have to think about the pure electric car. With the 911 it will be a bit difficult, but for the 718 I think it could be a very good step for the future, on a completely new platform we can then discuss to share with other brands.’

More Porsche scoops by CAR magazine

Once battery tech is revolutionized (it is just a matter of time, could be one year, could be 10 years) and batteries with same capacities like we have today will weight only 10-20% of the weight they do nowadays and fully charge in 20% of the time they do now, combustion engines will be done. Sad but a reality. Even if it takes 20 years to develop this tech, it will be the end of combustion engines. We need to be realistic!

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

SMH in disbelief by the obstinate arrogance of a certain Tesla owner here.  Utilities in the States are regulated industries and large infrastructure upgrades require requests from numerous regulatory agencies before any work even begins.  There’s also the physical design of the upgrade which must balance load across other sections of the grid including the transmission grid versus the distribution grid.  These are non-trival, and expensive, issues that can’t be solved by hand waving away the technical, economic, and regulatory issues.  
 

Don’t expect him to actually post a forecast of EV adoption rates at anytime.  He remains noncommittal and merely states that it will happen at some time.  However, automakers make this type of decision every day and getting that demand aspect relatively correct for EVs is extremely difficult.  

CGX car nut:

SMH in disbelief by the obstinate arrogance of a certain Tesla owner here.  Utilities in the States are regulated industries and large infrastructure upgrades require requests from numerous regulatory agencies before any work even begins.  There’s also the physical design of the upgrade which must balance load across other sections of the grid including the transmission grid versus the distribution grid.  These are non-trival, and expensive, issues that can’t be solved by hand waving away the technical, economic, and regulatory issues.  
 

Don’t expect him to actually post a forecast of EV adoption rates at anytime.  He remains noncommittal and merely states that it will happen at some time.  However, automakers make this type of decision every day and getting that demand aspect relatively correct for EVs is extremely difficult.  

Right back to the personal insults.  What about the cult I belong to where we sacrifice the babies of Porsche employees to the Elon Volcano god. Too funny.  You demand a timeframe for me just so you can have fun with your silly statements which seem factual in your head. Good for you. Lack of timeframe must mean you are correct that I am a total asshole for making positive statements about a car. Of course you must feel free to prove I am a bad person. Grrrr. You go for it.  
to recap for future audience. 
You are saying electric cars will not make it and ice cars will be around forever. Oil is king and you know for a fact that no electronic car will make it. How do you define obstinate arrogance. You are not a serious person. That is as insulting as I will be. Try to match that. It may improve your personality. 

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

Are there some which need to be upgraded?  Most likely but you guys still don’t understand how much these cars will be charged and how.  Lastly, and this is my point, the bottleneck is not the grid. The grid will improve more quickly than they can put cars on the road to overwhelm it. It is the lack of batteries to make all those cars. The grid will be ready long before that bottleneck is resolved. 
overall the argument now is just when. Not if. Does anyone here really think that internal combustion has a future?  It may take a while but investors need to appreciate that the market reacts instantly. Much sooner than reality.  Are they wrong sometimes?  Sure, but not often and in this case it is a self fulfilling deal if the market thinks it will happen. 

If you think upgrading the grid is easy, well then god help you.

Making battery is easy, there is no government policies involved, it's simply buying enough minerals. 

Try building a new power plant. First a study on where to put it. Then another study on the environment impact. Then another study for the impact on the neighbourhood. Then deal with protests. Now IF the project get a green light, then more headaches, bidding for the contracts, suppliers, labour unions. If one starts the process now, you will be lucky to have a new nuclear plant by 2030.

Maybe you will understand more in software terms. 

Plugging in the car into the wall to charge is the easy part. Just like a secretary searching fro a database record in her office. Nothing to it. IF she is the only one or just a handful of secretaries doing that, it's fine. 

Scale that up to a whole floor, say 50. Those instant queries might saturate the 100BaseT network. Yes 100, old wiring) Doesn't quite affect the gigabit back bone yet. But when you combine another 5-10 floors, that will. 

How about a few offices like that? Even if you lay 10Gb wiring snd switches, the server still have to do the query and serves them out. The server may not have enough RAM, or the processor can't keep up. So a new server is needed. 

Is buying a new server that easy? Maybe or maybe not. The request will have to go through the IT department and then the financial department and then the board. Maybe the board will say nah, the secretaries can wait an extra 30 seconds every query. Or the will say yes and buy. But they will put out a request for bid and let a whole bunch of suppliers to bid for the contract. Then more meetings to decide which company gets the contract. 

The contractor building the server is the easy part. Upgrading the infrastructure, i.e. network cables and switch is the hard part.

We can agree to disagree. Analogies don’t work. Consider this. On average I use 1000 kWh per month. The peak load during the summer days is today three times as much as what the car draws to charge in the evening when the power companies drop the price to $0.04 to get people to take up the excess capacity.  If everyone today charges their car in the heat of summer days I totally agree with you - given current capacity - but even today if people charge off peak at home it will actually make the best use of the power delivery we currently have.  
Nick I appreciate your thoughtful reply though and I also appreciate that you make arguments without first resulting to insults and character assassination.  
If I ever cross the line I apologize. It can be frustrating to try and communicate ones positive experiences and adventures with people who are so defensive of good news.  Frankly it is their loss not mine and I have hope in human nature to eventually do the right thing.  Not that I am holding my breath for an apology. Every now and the. Some silent member will stand up for me and those posts are priceless. Thanks 🙏 

Have a amazing weekend all. 

A friend just had his Tesla 3 Performance test-drive today. He was impressed with the performance but ran out of power after driving close to 200 km. Performance also cut off around the end, probably to preserve power. His driving style is similar to mine but he couldn‘t drive much on the Autobahn due to traffic. According to the display, power consumption was slightly over 40 kWh, basically the same consumption I had with the Taycan Turbo S and 4S. So weird... 👀

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

Once battery tech is revolutionized (it is just a matter of time, could be one year, could be 10 years) and batteries with same capacities like we have today will weight only 10-20% of the weight they do nowadays and fully charge in 20% of the time they do now, combustion engines will be done. Sad but a reality. Even if it takes 20 years to develop this tech, it will be the end of combustion engines. We need to be realistic!

I still have this book on the future of the automobile from the late 60s. They expected each car to have a little nuclear power plant and to be self driving... Changes happen much slower than we usually expect. 20 years are short, maybe in 50 years. Who knows....

Leawood911:

 

We can agree to disagree. Analogies don’t work. Consider this. On average I use 1000 kWh per month. The peak load during the summer days is today three times as much as what the car draws to charge in the evening when the power companies drop the price to $0.04 to get people to take up the excess capacity.  If everyone today charges their car in the heat of summer days I totally agree with you - given current capacity - but even today if people charge off peak at home it will actually make the best use of the power delivery we currently have.  
Nick I appreciate your thoughtful reply though and I also appreciate that you make arguments without first resulting to insults and character assassination.  
If I ever cross the line I apologize. It can be frustrating to try and communicate ones positive experiences and adventures with people who are so defensive of good news.  Frankly it is their loss not mine and I have hope in human nature to eventually do the right thing.  Not that I am holding my breath for an apology. Every now and the. Some silent member will stand up for me and those posts are priceless. Thanks 🙏 

Have a amazing weekend all. 

Buddy! Come on, I have know you long enough  I can carry a civilized conversation and you know that.

Anyways, I agree in your case in your area it works. It actually also work where I live. Our power comes from hydroelectric, and we have excess capacity to sell to the USA also. Heck, I got a 20kW natural gas backup generator at home, so even if the grid is off I can still charge my EV 

We are the minority, not many lives in area with that kind of luxury is what I am saying. I know you are super enthusiastic about the prospect of EV after experiencing the Tesla, I don't blame you, and the evolution will happens in time, just not now as everything else hasn't caught up. Eventually they will and EV will be more widespread. Heck, we might have induction propulsion/charging on the roadway for EV if someone get their shit together. 

MKSGR:

RC:

Once battery tech is revolutionized (it is just a matter of time, could be one year, could be 10 years) and batteries with same capacities like we have today will weight only 10-20% of the weight they do nowadays and fully charge in 20% of the time they do now, combustion engines will be done. Sad but a reality. Even if it takes 20 years to develop this tech, it will be the end of combustion engines. We need to be realistic!

I still have this book on the future of the automobile from the late 60s. They expected each car to have a little nuclear power plant and to be self driving... Changes happen much slower than we usually expect. 20 years are short, maybe in 50 years. Who knows....

My current iPhone 11 Pro is over 1200x faster, I think, than the world’s first supercomputer, the Cray-1.

This is 45 years later and keep in mind how enormously big the Cray-1 was.

10-20 years at max and you know why? Because only now the real technology race for much smaller and much lighter high capacity batteries started since we never really needed them before. This is a trillion(!) USD industry in the future, just think of the possibilities.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

WTI opening at 33USD, Goldman says 20USD is possible. It’s not forever, but carbon won’t go away any time soon at these prices...

Thank you RC for that very comprehensive write up about the Taycan.

You have saved me a significant amount of cash, I was ready to buy the Turbo S because of novelty appeal and the performance aspect.

I had some hesitation though, as I recently spent a lot upgrading my 2019 S63, did the Renntech mods, including turbo upgrade and turned the car into a proper monster but still very comfy and practical daily driver.

Have I went ahead and bought the Taycan, I’m afraid I would be very sorry, very quick and would lose the MB that I have made perfect for my needs.

Your review opened my eyes to certain factors I have not considered and gave me information I would never obtain without spending a lot of $$$ first.

Thanks a lot!

Hard to predict, but there’s a possibility that a Taycan Turbo S will hold it’s value better than an MB with modifications. With the upcoming economic turbulence, far fewer Taycans will be sold, making them rarer and more desirable.  Just a thought to consider.
 

Also, Porsche may start feeling the pressure and offer better lease and purchase terms.

It’s not the potential resale value that changed my mind, I already own the MB and the largest loss in value is already on me anyway.

RC’s review of driving characteristics, usefulness and the way I use my car and how hard ( basically a match for his style), swayed my decision.

absent:

It’s not the potential resale value that changed my mind, I already own the MB and the largest loss in value is already on me anyway.

RC’s review of driving characteristics, usefulness and the way I use my car and how hard ( basically a match for his style), swayed my decision.

In Illinois some of RCs issues would not apply. You certainly don’t have an autobahn nearby or high priced electric supply or old infrastructure. I’m frankly having a hard time seeing where you are coming from. Are there specific issues RC raised which saved you from going EV?  Let’s face it. If you want speed and handling the Porsche will humiliate the MB. Sorry to say. Renntech SchmenTech. 

absent:

Thank you RC for that very comprehensive write up about the Taycan.

You have saved me a significant amount of cash, I was ready to buy the Turbo S because of novelty appeal and the performance aspect.

I had some hesitation though, as I recently spent a lot upgrading my 2019 S63, did the Renntech mods, including turbo upgrade and turned the car into a proper monster but still very comfy and practical daily driver.

Have I went ahead and bought the Taycan, I’m afraid I would be very sorry, very quick and would lose the MB that I have made perfect for my needs.

Your review opened my eyes to certain factors I have not considered and gave me information I would never obtain without spending a lot of $$$ first.

Thanks a lot!

 

My pleasure but you realize I liked the Taycan Turbo S a lot? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Absent, I am also not interested in the Taycan Turbo S, but for different reasons.  It would be absurdly extravagant for me to spend such a huge sum for a car (though I am prone to extravagance), but the interior space issue is my major concern.  I truly enjoy the back seat room in my Panamera Turbo, and my car has plenty of power to gratify my craving for acceleration.  And if I want handling, without back seat room at a more affordable price, I would be inclined toward a 992S.  Just personal thoughts...

Leawood911:

absent:

It’s not the potential resale value that changed my mind, I already own the MB and the largest loss in value is already on me anyway.

RC’s review of driving characteristics, usefulness and the way I use my car and how hard ( basically a match for his style), swayed my decision.

In Illinois some of RCs issues would not apply. You certainly don’t have an autobahn nearby or high priced electric supply or old infrastructure. I’m frankly having a hard time seeing where you are coming from. Are there specific issues RC raised which saved you from going EV?  Let’s face it. If you want speed and handling the Porsche will humiliate the MB. Sorry to say. Renntech SchmenTech. 

850hp is plenty enough for me.

No, I don’t have autobahn here but I frequently drive on our tollway at 4am to my warehouse.

completely no traffic and no cops, it does feel like a true autobahn.

Unfortunately I have a heavy foot, had a Tesla 100D for 4 days test drive, car had issues with performance after just 145 miles, liked it on the first day and it was downhill since.