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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Wonderbar:

    Why the strategy to start out with Turbo and Turbo S? 

    I think the design is a pretty refined interpretation of the mission E. Looks good in white.

     

    Porsche is't aiming for Tesla that's why.

    By launching the top tier Turbo and Turbo S first, Porsche is capturing the top end of the EV segment, the ones that can afford high price cars but were forced to buy a lower quality Tesla Model S before as that was the top dog in the EV segment. 
     

    As I had explained before, there isn't a luxury car in the EV segment like Rolls Royce, Bentley in the ICE segment. Well off people wants nice cars, now they do't have to settle for a Tesla and they can have a Porsche.

    In a way it is competing against Tesla for the top senders but they aren't exactly. 

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    farina:

    Of course not the same car. And we all know this...comparison.png

     

    Are we even even on the same planet? 

    The production Taycan is 80%-90% of the Misson E. The grill is bigger because of the cooling requirement, the side skirt  design is more practical on the production model and gives the interior a bit more shoulder/hip room. Apart from that they are pretty much the same car.

    Oh and the suicide doors are now conventional for safety reasons. That's about it.


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Lets say it’s toned down by 60%…


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The Taycan's brake regeneration capability is set at 0.4g, right in between the 918's 0.5g and the Panamera/Cayenne hybrids' 0.3g.

    Don't have a g-meter handy, but I should go measure my Audi's brake regen and compare, it feels like 0.3g though.

    Taycan also prefer coasting at speed than recuperation, with manually selectable recuperation just like in the Audi  e-Tron. I believe it's the same 2 levels option.  This would seems to be the VAG corporate decision to let the driver select partial recuperation but the main goal is to maintain kinetic energy for coast.

    With 800V chargers, 0-80% charge is ~23mins, pretty much right one the money for halving the Audi's 400V time of 0-80% in 40mins.

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    spudgun:

    Lets say it’s toned down by 60%…

     

    40% of the original? Smiley


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I like it initially, and will post some more impressions when I see the car in person next Tuesday in Frankfurt.  And you can bet that within a couple of years the rear hips will get wider and the battery packs will get lighter. But now, for a starter, I think it will impress and convince many buyers.. Certainly more sporty and unique than Tesla at the moment.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    In Belgium - Porsche Taycan Turbo : 157.844,50 € TVA included / Turbo S: 191.724,50 € TVA included

    Ouch.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    IMG_0862.JPG

    Here is another interesting details. This photo is from the Canadian launch, showing the old style pill charger, the above embedded video also shows the old style charger too. 

    There is 2 versions of the old style charger, one 16A and one 30A. My 918 came with the 16A but Porsche has since shipping all hybrids with 30A. The current pill charger is smaller, no mode LCD screen, the car side cable is fixed but they upgraded them to 40A, my Audi came one such a charger and my Panamera Turbo S came with a Porsche branded one, apart from the brand they are exactly the same. 

    That latest charger however is bugged. It won't go full power when plugged into a 220-240V plug angry It needs a firmware update.

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    We are certainly not on the same planet! But in Germany we say: „Über Geschmack lässt sich nicht streiten!“ Smiley

    If you like it, buy it!


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The problem for me is that if I'm going EV it makes more sense in a Macam for example, a "sporty" sedan not so much, the EV part kind of cancels the sporty part, I would prefer a hybrid like the Panamera turbo s hybrid in that case.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    farina:

    We are certainly not on the same planet! But in Germany we say: „Über Geschmack lässt sich nicht streiten!“ Smiley

    If you like it, buy it!

     

    Haha I like it.

    But I am not buying one. No point. I don't need another sedan. Especially when my Panamera Turbo S is superior in any metric.

    But even if it's a SUV I probably also won't buy one. already have the e-Tron and it's the perfect city appliance!


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I don’t think I am a Taycan candidate either.  When my lease runs out next year, I am inclined to either a 992 CarreraS or a Cayenne coupe. Of course, as always, my mind can change.yes


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I would wait for the facelift.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Porsche Taycan...

    1567620561801image.jpeg

    1567620599730image.jpeg

    1567620658652image.jpeg

    1567620676197image.jpeg

    ...looking good! Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Not yet sure about the car, certainly some cool parts. But I do not get that the Taycan is identical in size with a model S but everybody is claiming its smaller. The room in the back seems to be tiny but need to see it in person. It is also even wider than the Panamera by 3cm and only 8cm shorter. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Much better side profile than I had though from the spy photos


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    https://youtu.be/yMkancgoXmw


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Beautiful car; inside and outside.  Likely quite high consumption, "eyewatering price" as Scifrog predicted and the rear trunk will kill more than one back. But can't wait to get my hands on that car 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The car looks beautiful in this intense blue Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    schmoell:

    Beautiful car; inside and outside.  Likely quite high consumption, "eyewatering price" as Scifrog predicted and the rear trunk will kill more than one back. But can't wait to get my hands on that car 

    Are you really surprised by the price?  It is priced, at least in the States, correspondingly less than the Panamera Turbo S and the outgoing 991.2 Turbo S.  

    While many seem determined to compare the Taycan to the Tesla Model S and even the Model E, the Taycan represents something totally different.  This car, from its specifications, is devastatingly quick from point-to-point, offering a different approach than that found in a Tesla.  While Tesla represented a solid effort, Musk's various machinations and fumblings have negatively impacted the company.  

    Under Musk, Tesla is an unfocused mess that has squandered an early lead in the EV space.  Volkswagen Group is a juggernaut, and it is starting show that it has the wherewithal to successfully pivot to EVs.  The pricing of the Taycan will not cannibalize sales from the Panamera, leading to an increase in market share through conquest purchases for the Taycan.  The Audi e-tron is an Audi that is also an EV.  That is attractive to premium mass market, which, inherently is larger in size than the first-mover/technologist market.  Next, Volkswagen will demonstrate a level of prowess with the new MEB platform and the ID 3.  Will each vehicle meet or exceed a set of fixed parameters when compared with Tesla?  No, but that isn't the intent.  Instead Volkswagen Group will nibble away at the edges of Tesla as it concentrates on vehicles that aren't a direct match for Tesla.  

    It will be interesting to see what Mercedes-Benz and BMW will show at Frankfurt this year too.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Wonderbar:

    I like it initially, and will post some more impressions when I see the car in person next Tuesday in Frankfurt.  And you can bet that within a couple of years the rear hips will get wider and the battery packs will get lighter. But now, for a starter, I think it will impress and convince many buyers.. Certainly more sporty and unique than Tesla at the moment.

    Wonderbar, it would be great if you could kindly sit in the rear to check the legroom. There are no pictures or dimensions of the rear seats yet (only one YouTube review of prototype Taycan showing limited legroom in rear), and my London dealer said today they will not get a demonstrator until early 2020. Thanks!


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Kobalt:

    I would wait for the facelift.

    Or the Cross Turismo, somehow the estate makes more sense in this kind of car.  


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Porker:

    To my own confusion, I love it!

    My feelings exactly. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Boytronic, happy to test out the rear leg room. I’m 5’ 10”, just so you can have a context for my comments.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I like the color.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    33.PNG888.PNG7777.PNG1567664341687666.PNG

    SportDesign Package...not looking good in my opinion


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:
    schmoell:

    Beautiful car; inside and outside.  Likely quite high consumption, "eyewatering price" as Scifrog predicted and the rear trunk will kill more than one back. But can't wait to get my hands on that car 

    Are you really surprised by the price?  It is priced, at least in the States, correspondingly less than the Panamera Turbo S and the outgoing 991.2 Turbo S.  

    While many seem determined to compare the Taycan to the Tesla Model S and even the Model E, the Taycan represents something totally different.  This car, from its specifications, is devastatingly quick from point-to-point, offering a different approach than that found in a Tesla.  While Tesla represented a solid effort, Musk's various machinations and fumblings have negatively impacted the company.  

    Under Musk, Tesla is an unfocused mess that has squandered an early lead in the EV space.  Volkswagen Group is a juggernaut, and it is starting show that it has the wherewithal to successfully pivot to EVs.  The pricing of the Taycan will not cannibalize sales from the Panamera, leading to an increase in market share through conquest purchases for the Taycan.  The Audi e-tron is an Audi that is also an EV.  That is attractive to premium mass market, which, inherently is larger in size than the first-mover/technologist market.  Next, Volkswagen will demonstrate a level of prowess with the new MEB platform and the ID 3.  Will each vehicle meet or exceed a set of fixed parameters when compared with Tesla?  No, but that isn't the intent.  Instead Volkswagen Group will nibble away at the edges of Tesla as it concentrates on vehicles that aren't a direct match for Tesla.  

    It will be interesting to see what Mercedes-Benz and BMW will show at Frankfurt this year too.

    I was not comparing the Taycan price with Tesla and did not intend to cause more Tesla bashing; sorry if I didn't make that clear. The challenge for Porsche at this point is to set a pricing reference for EVs, esp since they are the first in the premium segment.  They more or less took the ICE pricing grid, which might be one of the reasons they also use the ICE type names; we all know that a Turbo S is 200k+. It will be interesting to see if the market is willing to pay these prices given that EVs are significantly cheaper to build.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Enzo II:

    33.PNG888.PNG7777.PNG1567664341687666.PNG

    SportDesign Package...not looking good in my opinion

    I agree.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    So who is going to order a Taycan? 


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    AM


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I'm one of the first who paid a deposit ..... the car looks great ... the price is higher than expected.

    I'm pretty sure that most customers are looking for a lease on such an EV car  ... I guess nobody wants to buy a car with a battery which is out-dated 3-4 years after buying the car ... at least when the car is not limited ... and 30.000 per anno looks not limited. 

     

    So I asked my dealer for a lease offer (3y/10k/0EUR) .... Aston Martin is 0,8-1,0 ... BMW (i8) is 1,1 to 1,2 ..... if porsche is still 1,6-1,7 ... what would result in a monthly rate of 3000 EUR .... the Taycan is died (at least for me) .... 3000 EUR times 36 result in nearly 110k EUR ... means you paid a standard Carrera 992 completely in 3 years .... 

     

    We'll see if Porsche was smart enough to think about that ...

     

     


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    -----------------------------------

    BMW i8 * RRS * BMW i3s


     
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