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    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Thanks for the post, RC. I agree with you about not having a special "WOW" feeling when I first saw the pictures, despite the technology improvements. BUT:
    1. I always like a car better in full sight (for example I hated the Cayman until I saw it in Frankfurt--then I loved it).
    2. The Turbo is the best all around sportscar for my taste and use. Are the Lambos, Ferraris, etc. more visually exciting? Maybe. But over the years I have seen Ferrari styling get old quick, and the F430 is to me a modification of the 360 styling and a bit brutish looking. The Gallardo is far too extreme and impractical for my taste and use. The Aston is nice, but untested and most likely not as responsive and quick as I would like.

    3. So what explains my slight malaise about the new TT? I think it is because I was so excited by my 996TT, and the 997TT is not quite enough of a styling advancement for me. Almost enough, but not quite. Admittedly silly, but I would have liked integrated-not inserted--side vents; more of a new GT3 rear valence and exhaust set-up; full body color front and side spoiler lips; and a more flowing design coming off the back windows into the rear panels. Cosmetic--sure. But I do find myself thinking about these things and I believe they tell me I wanted something a little further advanced stylistically from the 996TT


    4. I like the TIP, because I know manual shifting is on its way out in the future. I have driven manuals for forty years, at least ten of those years in competitive sports car racing both on and off road. I will watch the tests carefully, however, but for now I am excited about this progress (if it turns out to be).

    5. But finally, I will hold my judgement and feelings until I see the car in person in Geneva.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    I wouldnt take any advice from mKSGR

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    RC, isn't it possible that the tremendous performance increase with the Tiptronic S is because it is in fact the PDK? Given the way Porsche has spoon fed/leaked the details of this car to the public a little at a time, and given the fact that they want to have significant news to unveil at Geneva, I wouldn't be suprised to hear this news at Geneva.

    I also don't feel excited as I should to be getting a new 997T, basically because of the styling. My wife (not a car nut) couldn't even tell the difference when I showed her the pics, and I am sure that the average guy on the street will have the same reaction. However if the PDK is available at the start with the Tiptronic S performance stats then my feelings will change.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Sorry guys, but i'm laughing my a** off right now.
    Nobody here has driven the damn car yet, but you're complaining about the lack soul? You figured that out just from a couple of PICTURES and some lines of text?? Uhm, ok...
    You don't even know if the tiptronic is really faster, but those 0.2 secs from the OFFICIAL specs just ruined the car for you? Sorry dudes, but that's just hypocritical bullsh*t.
    Even if it is a bit faster, so what? I bet the engineers worked their ass off to make it so, i just don't see how the marketing dept might be interested in more tiptronic sales than manuals...
    Then there are a couple of whiners here, i'm sorry to say it. No test yet, but they're filling up the board with tens of identical messages (and it seems like they really need five consecutive identical messages to speak their minds), burying the new turbo before it even had a chance to prove it's worth. BS, again.

    A day ago everybody was enthusiast about the 480hp, overboost, new 4WD, VTG, etc... Now the same guys are complaining about the same things they were raving about 24 hours before... What changed in the mean time? TWO tenths of a second? Oh come on...

    You know what's REALLY sad? The guys on ferrarichat are more enthusiastic about the TT than the supposed porsche enthusiasts. Seems like they don't care that much about those 0.2 secs...



    Amen

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Sorry guys, but i'm laughing my a** off right now.
    Nobody here has driven the damn car yet, but you're complaining about the lack soul?



    Some people have to decide NOW if they go tip or manual...

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Regarding your comment on the Tip's faster acceleration times, I cannot agree with you.
    I would never ever prefer an automatic above a manual gearbox, not even if it's faster.
    Let's be honest, does anyone actually feel a 0,2sec difference?
    And how big is the chance you actually pull up against a Tip 997TT or an F430 for what it matters, it's just straight line acceleration, where's the pleasure in that?? Porsche is or should be about the bends, not the straights and I have no doubt the Turbo will [censored] all over his "enemies" in his own discipline.

    What I want to say with this is, don't bother about the slightly lower hp or topspeed, the things you really enjoy in a Porsche will still be there, I think.
    And please don't take a Tip just because it's faster, you'll have so much more fun in a manual.

    I do agree with RC on his comments about the TT's options; why doesn't he get things like LSD standard, why doesn't he get the best possible brakes as standard, etc...
    That bothers me too, same with the 997S, why does someone who wants PASM have to live without LSD, they CAN make their standard cars even better, but they don't because of their option-philosophy, which is wrong IMO.

    Just the thoughts of a youngster

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    so the tip on the turbo is benz made and the tip on the carrera is "the old tip"? correct???


    Not quite exactly, the 997 carrera tip is a huge improvement in response engagement as compared to the entire range of the 996 tips.
    JMO

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    twinturbo001 said:
    I believe 90% of Ferrari's today are the F1. Porsche is following the demand.



    Until proven otherwise, you can't compare the (old) Tip S and the Ferrari F1.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    I'm very exited with the new 997 turbo.

    I think that I will buy one and I never buy a Porsche before. I'm driving very sport and I'm happy that for one time the Tiptronic is faster than the manual, it is more easy and more useful each day ( I think that if the manual was more quick I will never buy one).

    For me Porsche did a great job and I think that they will sell a lot of new turbo.

    So I think that each people have its own feeling .

    So I want just to says : Congratulation Porsche you normally have one new customer.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    I might meet you at the Chevrolet dealer soon



    Not me!

    Just say No to power steering in a 911!

    There are lots of orphaned Porsches in excellent condition looking for new homes.

    Most of the early cars are easily upgraded with more power and better brakes. Even in original spec they provide more than enough performance for speed limited America.

    No anti freeze needed !

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Some people have to decide NOW if they go tip or manual...


    Then those people have a bit of soul searching to do

    a. Like the manual? Go for it then, does that hypothetical (and so far unproven) 0.2sec difference matter so much?
    b. Need the bragging rights? Get the tiptronic.

    And then there's c. Need the tiptronic for practical reasons, but those guys don't need me to tell them what to buy
    (heh, not that the other guys really care about my POV )

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Super Darius, I dont think the tt is that much lighter to make a real difference in feeling or agility. Prices is ok, but you still need to pay $$ for PCCB and Sport Chrono Turbo to make a complete dinner.

    At its price and position, at least the "overboost" should be free and not ala carte $$$.



    Sure..you are right...but i see more right thing that bad on the 997 Turbo..

    maybe is becouse is too much time that i sold my former 996TT...

    can't wait the new one!!


    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    This thread is giving me a headache (great opinions everyone)...not to be too OT, but I'm getting a bigger headache thinking about the new mini Cayenne ... it feels like BMW is running Porsche's senior management ... I agree, I think Porsche's luster and exclusivity are slipping away slowly...

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    I wouldnt take any advice from mKSGR



    That, I think, you should leave to Christian.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    RC, I'm afraid I have to disagree on what you've said! It is your right as a customer to expect more of the 997 Turbo, and to be angry, if your expectations were failed... But let me tell you something, this is only my opinion, and I don't want to offend anybody!

    The new 911 Turbo with the Tiptronic is a bit faster on a straight line than the manual, but only in the 0-200 kph speed range, I suppose(and I hope so )! Many of us on this board are clear about that the performance on a straight line is not the most important thing for a sportscar, right!? Despite that, the 997 Turbo will be a hell of a performer on a straight, even with the manual! I think that everyone, absolutely everyone, will be able to achieve a time of 3.7 seconds from 0 to 100 kph, in the 997 Turbo Tiptronic, while with the manual, only a real good driver WILL be able to reach 100 kph in less than these stated 3.9 seconds for the manual. I'm sure that you know, that Porsche AG always underestimates the performance of its cars, and always claims times, higher than the achieved from undependent sources ones! Some examples - the Carrera GT claimed time from 0 to 100 kph is 3.9 seconds, some magazines stated times to accelerate to 100 kph between 3.5 and 3.8 seconds! The 997 S claimed time from 0 to 100 kph is 4.6 seconds, some magazines stated times to accelerate to 100 kph between 4.1 and 4.5 seconds! All that is assigned to these models with manual transmissions! There are a lot of these examples in the Porsche history or present production line, so I don't bother that on paper, the Tip is faster than manual! In the hands of a real good, experienced driver, the manual 997 Turbo will be faster than Tip, especially on a track.
    My thoughts are the same about the acceleration figures from 0 to 200 kph, the manual will be faster than the claimed 12.8 seconds, while the figure for the Tip will be constant! And one more thing, also very important...The 997 Turbo will be faster than the Ferrari F430 and the Galardo SE, and than the Corvette Z06 too, firstly, on acceleration! The italians have already had a very hard time with the 996 Turbo S, and the 997 Turbo is faster than it! The top speed has never been something that important when it comes to Porsches, so I don't care about it that much, still 310 kph maximum speed for the new Turbo is more than enough.

    But Porsche has always been about something else than straight line performance. It is mostly for the curve,for the twisties on the road, for the track! And the new 911 Turbo might be faster than its rivals on the straight, but the track is where it will crush them all! It is lighter than the Turbo S, more powerful, with better brakes, with VTG, with huge torque, new 4x4 system! Imagine this car with the Sport Chrono Turbo package, with the huge PCCBs, with MANUAL transmission, and the rear differential lock, and you'll have the new/old King of sportscars, once again! Don't bother about anything else, and let's all wait for the first independent reviews on the 997 Turbo!!! I'm sure we will see the greatness of the 911 Turbo soon, you just give it a try, and you'll love it, no doubt!

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    BTW, i'm sure you'll all feel much better once the real tests are published

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    I wouldnt take any advice from mKSGR



    BTW: Posts like the above represent a style ususallly not found on rennteam. Given that you joined this board only two weeks ago I could not help myself but state that quite clearly.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    I believe they sure did.
    None of the cars in the 997 lineup are as pure as the previous generations. Except for the GT3 of course.

    Have mine on order and cant wait.

    Friend of mine is expecting delivery of an F430 in June. Will be fun to show him thar Porsche has the performance without the bling.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Well, he's right, in a way, you do have a peculiar way of seeing ..erm.. only the empty half of the glass

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Sorry thats just the way I feel. I think the 997 turbo was improved in comparison to the 996 turbo. What more can we ask for. Porsche or any other car manufacturer for that matter could never satisfy 100% of all your wishes (customers). They provided better 0-60 times for both trannies, more aggresive styling, better fuel economy, made it lighter, more detailed and better quality interior, al for around the same price... Since when has Porsche changed the design drastically. This is why you can put a 1970's 911 and the 997 next to each other and recognize that they are the from the same gene pool. I strongly disagree that Porshe has failed. Maybe they deserve an A- but failing I think not!!!

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Super Darius, I dont think the tt is that much lighter to make a real difference in feeling or agility. Prices is ok, but you still need to pay $$ for PCCB and Sport Chrono Turbo to make a complete dinner.

    At its price and position, at least the "overboost" should be free and not ala carte $$$.



    Sure..you are right...but i see more right thing that bad on the 997 Turbo..

    maybe is becouse is too much time that i sold my former 996TT...

    can't wait the new one!!





    I hope your TT is the first delivered in Italy

    You can find a new girlfriend anytime, waiting for a new Porsche to arrive is way more difficult... and then waiting for the break in mileage to pass is torture!

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    Sorry thats just the way I feel. I think the 997 turbo was improved in comparison to the 996 turbo. What more can we ask for. Porsche or any other car manufacturer for that matter could never satisfy 100% of all your wishes (customers). They provided better 0-60 times for both trannies, more aggresive styling, better fuel economy, made it lighter, more detailed and better quality interior, al for around the same price... Since when has Porsche changed the design drastically. This is why you can put a 1970's 911 and the 997 next to each other and recognize that they are the from the same gene pool. I strongly disagree that Porshe has failed. Maybe they deserve an A- but failing I think not!!!



    I strongly disagree with you and strongly agree with both MKSGR, RC and others who have the same sentiment.
    Let's review:

    997TT performance stats:

    3,9s 0-100 km/h
    12,8s 0-200 km/h


    996TTS/X50 performance stats:

    Test in ams 1/2003
    Gewicht 1578 kg
    0 - 80 km/h 3,0 s
    0 - 100 km/h 3,9 s
    0 - 120 km/h 5,5 s
    0 - 140 km/h 6,8 s
    0 - 160 km/h 8,4 s
    0 - 180 km/h 10,9 s
    0 - 200 km/h 12,9 s

    Test in Auto Zeitung 08/2005
    Gewicht 1600 kg
    0 - 80 km/h 3,2 s
    0 - 100 km/h 4,1 s
    0 - 120 km/h 5,6 s
    0 - 130 km/h - s
    0 - 140 km/h 6,9 s
    0 - 160 km/h 8,5 s
    0 - 180 km/h 10,8 s
    0 - 200 km/h 13,1 s


    If you know basic mathematics, you can see what I'm aiming at.
    A whole 1/10 of a second improvement in 100-200 km/h acceleration? With the allmighty VTG?
    If the powerkit doesn't deliver substantially better performance, Porsche will have lost at least one customer.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    rhino said:
    Sorry thats just the way I feel. I think the 997 turbo was improved in comparison to the 996 turbo. What more can we ask for. Porsche or any other car manufacturer for that matter could never satisfy 100% of all your wishes (customers). They provided better 0-60 times for both trannies, more aggresive styling, better fuel economy, made it lighter, more detailed and better quality interior, al for around the same price... Since when has Porsche changed the design drastically. This is why you can put a 1970's 911 and the 997 next to each other and recognize that they are the from the same gene pool. I strongly disagree that Porshe has failed. Maybe they deserve an A- but failing I think not!!!



    I strongly disagree with you and strongly agree with both MKSGR, RC and others who have the same sentiment.
    Let's review:

    997TT performance stats:

    3,9s 0-100 km/h
    12,8s 0-200 km/h


    996TTS/X50 performance stats:

    Test in ams 1/2003
    Gewicht 1578 kg
    0 - 80 km/h 3,0 s
    0 - 100 km/h 3,9 s
    0 - 120 km/h 5,5 s
    0 - 140 km/h 6,8 s
    0 - 160 km/h 8,4 s
    0 - 180 km/h 10,9 s
    0 - 200 km/h 12,9 s

    Test in Auto Zeitung 08/2005
    Gewicht 1600 kg
    0 - 80 km/h 3,2 s
    0 - 100 km/h 4,1 s
    0 - 120 km/h 5,6 s
    0 - 130 km/h - s
    0 - 140 km/h 6,9 s
    0 - 160 km/h 8,5 s
    0 - 180 km/h 10,8 s
    0 - 200 km/h 13,1 s


    If you know basic mathematics, you can see what I'm aiming at.
    A whole 1/10 of a second improvement in 100-200 km/h acceleration? With the allmighty VTG?
    If the powerkit doesn't deliver substantially better performance, Porsche will have lost at least one customer.



    Crash, you have the ultimate collection of test statistics

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    I love car mags

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    OMG!! so manual is not an option for sure now...

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    If you know basic mathematics, you can see what I'm aiming at.
    A whole 1/10 of a second improvement in 100-200 km/h acceleration? With the allmighty VTG?


    Unless i'm missing something, you're comparing official times with test results. Why? Those results were significantly better than the official times and there's no reason to believe it won't happen the same with the 997TT. Also keep in mind the overboost, which isn't taken into consideration by the official times.

    Why are you people so eager to complain, regardless of facts?

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    So the new 997 turbo(mind you without Sport Chrono or tiptronics) is faster than the 996 turbo with $16,000 x50 package enough said

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    WHY DO YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT 0-60 AND HORSEPOWER FIGURES? Seriously, I never expected this from you, RC, of all people. I'm sorry to say this but your post is just whinny and ridiculous. Look at what you're saying. You're complaining about a car that no one has driven.

    Why don't you go buy a dragster instead of a sports car? Sports cars are about more than straight line performance and HP figures. Seriously stop complaining about why the car doesn't have more than 500hp. It's so shallow and lame. Do you realize that 510hp is merely 6% more hp than 480hp? That is nothing. I seriously doubt you can tell the difference when we're talking about this much power.

    Your whole Tiptronic argument is just PAINFUL. You're worried about a school boy or an old lady beating you in a straight line? Be reasonable here. Do you live at the drag strip? Do you care that much about straight line acceleration that you're willing to buy something that you despise just incase an old lady in a Triptronic Turbo pulls up to race you at a stop light? You're willing to sacrifice driver involvement (manual transmission) for quicker straight line acceleration. Your post seriously hurts to read. Did you actually write this? .3 seconds slower from 0-60 is nothing unless you live by a stop watch.

    You're disappointed that the Turbo in manual is basically equal to the Ferrari F430? What are you talking about? The F430 is an amazing car. For one minute, don't look at the badge. The F430 is a masterpiece and it costs way more than a Turbo. You should be happy that the Turbo can keep up with such a car. How can you complain when the new Turbo is better in every regard over the last Turbo? I think you had unrealistic expectations for this car. It's a 911 Turbo, not a Bugatti Veryon. This car will keep up with almost any supercar you can find and it only costs 120k US. It doesn't get much better than that, except maybe the Z06.

    Could Porsche have made this car better? Sure, but the same could be said for ever car ever made! The Carrera GT could have been better. So could have the Ferrari Enzo. I feel like you're just looking for stuff to complain about. The new Turbo does have a lot of great things going for it; an awesome variable turbo system, new bigger brakes, a decrease in weight (hurrah!), and a super slick electronic AWD system. I think you're just being extremely unreasonable.

    WHY THE HELL ARE YOU BUYING THIS CAR? You say you don't want it and that you don't have cash to waist but here you are spending all this money for a car you don't want. I feel like you're buying this car for all the wrong reasons and on top of that, you don't even like it.

    My favorite line from your post is: "I know that it is too late to complain about the new 997 Turbo." So what is the point of all this?

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    So the new 997 turbo(mind you without Sport Chrono or tiptronics) is faster than the 996 turbo with $16,000 x50 package enough said



    You beat me to the keyboard .. Yes thats a comparison to the previous with the power kit , what do you guys want blood ..

    And as for the tip forget it , I would go with the stick whatever..

    throt..

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Lol just read your post C4S Co-Driver ,, I agree...

    throt..

     
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