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    Re: Porsche CEO Says Sale Imminent as VW Power Struggle Nears End...

    Porsche needs to bring back Dr. Bez from Aston.  He was THE man with vision and passion for cars.

    Happy Driving

    Re: Porsche CEO Says Sale Imminent as VW Power Struggle Nears End...

    Ron (Houston):

    Porsche needs to bring back Dr. Bez from Aston.  He was THE man with vision and passion for cars.

     Yep - I like his influence in every company that he goes.

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs) Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2

    Re: Porsche CEO Says Sale Imminent as VW Power Struggle Nears End...

    I am not sure if Dr. Bez will be available (or interested) but IMO Porsche should be headed by a top engineer and be product driven. These accounting and finance guys should not be allowed to go beyond the domain of their speciality.

    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Porsche CEO Says Sale Imminent as VW Power Struggle Nears End...


    I don't see what makes you think, the Cayman is a disaster (sales wise).

    Let's set the record straight.

    FY 05/06: Cayman was introduced in Nov 05 in Europe and Feb 06 in N.A ie more or less only available for 6 months only

    Boxster: 13,904 units

    Cayman: 14,002 units

    FY 06/07

    Boxster: 9,412 units

    Cayman: 16,734 units

    FY 07/08

    Boxster: 10,010 units

    Cayman: 11,737 units

    FY 08/09 (at end May ie 10 months)

    Boxster: 3,750 units

    Cayman: 3,650 units

    Bottom line since its introduction, Cayman has been outselling the Boxster except during this fiscal year where sales are "neck to neck".

    Selling close to 50,000 units in 4 years is not too bad if you bear in mind it's a crowed and declining segment .....

    May be the only negative is it has been ageing rapidly compared with the Boxster.


    Smashing success: NO, Flop ABSOLUTELY NOT 



    Re: Porsche CEO Says Sale Imminent as VW Power Struggle Nears End...

    I agree with you that Cayman is a good option for entry level Porsche sportscar for many prospective buyers.

    I, for example I owned a Boxster before Cayman was introduced. If a fixed roof coupe of similar price was available at the time, I would have never bought convertible.

    I was given a new Cayman S PDK (the one at the back of the picture) from the Porsche Centre to drive to the mountains last Saturday and I found it a top car.

    carrera 014.jpg

    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: REPORT: Porsche facing dire times


    Well...I face dire times too but nobody seems to be interested.

    To get back to Porsche: apparently two new potential investors are in the boat right now, one comes from China and the other one from Russia. There seems to be a lot of secrecy about this, not quite sure why but maybe it has to do with Piech and VW.

    Oman was also rumored to get a big piece of the Porsche cake but apparently things aren't going as smoothly as planned, especially after the Oman investor got a hand on internal Porsche papers and their financial implications.

    Right now, everything seems to be speculation and there is nothing we can do about it. One thing is for sure: when the whole "situation" changes and results are at hand, a couple of things will change, heads will roll (maybe not now but soon) but I just hope that the customer will benefit from it in a way or another.

    When I look at VW, I'm not sure if VW "buying" Porsche would actually be a bad thing. Look at Lamborghini, Bugatti or Bentley, I don't think that VW did a bad job with these brands overall and even Audi seems to have touched new grounds over the past decade.

    When I look at Porsche right now, I can see many decisions which, from a customer point of view, have been wrong.


    1. 997 Turbo: great product, no doubt about it but why not 550 HP, a better chassis setup and LED backlights from the start?

    2. Cayman: great product but why so much more expensive than the Boxster and why not a stripped down low cost version for track addicts?

    3. Cayenne: first gen look was outdated when it showed up, second gen Cayenne should have actually been the first gen Cayenne from many points of view

    4. Panamera: horrible back, ugly is even a kind word for it. Too heavy too, prices too high for a new model

    I know that many don't agree with me but I bought more than 7 Porsche over the past 12 years, so maybe Porsche should listen to people like me because right now, my Porsche "addiction" kind of lost its attraction (still having high hopes for the new Cayenne generation).

    I agree with everything you said, here's what I'd add to the list

    5. More noise (Idle / Full throttle) noisy as F430

    6. Track suited setup for the Turbo (Suspension/Tires....) Ferrari HGTE ?

    7. Option / Special order for GT2/ GT3 / GT3-RS / Turbo:

    - Delete PCM + Stereo / A/C (no charge)

    - Carbon Fiber hood(bonnet) / wing / trunk / side mirrors etc...

    - Motec Adl Dash

    - Sequential Gearbox

    - Quaife LSD

    Few things that'll never happen Smiley


    Re: REPORT: Porsche facing dire times

    Seems like Wiedeking and Härter are history:

    I don't know if this is good or bad news. Guess only time will tell.


    Matt C
    2005 997 C2S / 1988 911 3.2 Conv.

    Re: REPORT: Porsche facing dire times

     Thanks for the link Matt.

    I think it's infuriating that the VW law now has these consequences. When the EU finally declares the law illegal, it'll be too late. 

    Re: REPORT: Porsche facing dire times

    "The future is uncertain and the end is always near".

    J. Morrison

    Re: REPORT: Porsche facing dire times

    Matt C:

    Seems like Wiedeking and Härter are history:

    I don't know if this is good or bad news. Guess only time will tell.


    Matt C
    2005 997 C2S / 1988 911 3.2 Conv.


    Happy Driving

    Re: REPORT: Porsche facing dire times



    I'm not clear what you're trying to say here Ron.

    Re: REPORT: Porsche facing dire times

    GM Austin:



    I'm not clear what you're trying to say here Ron.

    A pic can say more than some language using f-words Smiley

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

    Re: REPORT: Porsche facing dire times

    If stories describing Wiedeking's influence over the fuggly profile of the Panamera are true, then I could imagine that terminal arrogance and over-reaching did him and Porsche in both, with respect to their financial adventures too.

    I am a very happy owner of a C4S F2, but still remember my dealer trying to justify the POS PMS in my C2S, acquired on release in the fall of 2005: no satellite radio, no iPod integration, no Bluetooth, a 'Dymo style' SatNav 5+ years out of date..... a $20K Honda outclassed it in every way.

    Considering what VW has done with Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, etc., I'm frankly pleased to hear the news.

    But since I will likely need four real seats in my next car, Porsche is now alas off the table. Not withstanding feedback that the Panamera looks better in life than pictures, Adam2S doesn't have to make any excuses when he posts pictures of his new Vantage.

    Stunning cars look stunning in life and photos both. If I'm paying or leasing over $100K I want it all. A 911 certainly meets that criterium but I'll leave the Panamera for those with two meter passengers to haul around.

    997 C4S FL

    Re: REPORT: Porsche facing dire times

    Porsche prepares sale of options

    Devaluation of options structure leads to substantial negative impact on earnings

    Stuttgart. Porsche Automobil Holding SE, Stuttgart, is in advanced talks on the sale of the cash settled options with respect to Volkswagen shares to one or several investors. Amongst these investors is especially Qatar Holding LLC (QH) with whom talks about an investment in Porsche SE also is underway.

    The preparation for the sale of the options on Volkswagen shares leads to a devaluation resulting in a substantial book capital loss. Nevertheless Porsche improves its liquidity situation through the sale of the options structure as it would lead to an inflow of cash in a magnitude of more than one billion Euro, currently serving as cash collateral for the options structure.

    Another non cash relevant book loss derives from the initial full consolidation of Volkswagen group. With the increase of the stake in VW to 50.76 percent on January 5 2009 Porsche was obliged to fully consolidate Volkswagen. This triggered a so called Purchase Price Allocation (PPA) under which all assets and liabilities of the part group Volkswagen had to be valued and compared with the price paid for the shares to get to the company’s valuation. This results in a substantial negative impact. Overall the two measures should lead to earnings before taxes for fiscal year 2008/09 of up to minus five billion Euro.

    It is important, that the devaluation of the options and the consequences of the PPA are purely accounting related. They do not effect the valuation of the 50.76 percent stake in common shares in Volkswagen AG on Porsche’s balance sheet.

    For Porsche SE the big advantage in the devaluation of the options lies in the improvement of liquidity available. Furthermore the equity ratio after these to steps still is a sound 23 percent.



    Re: REPORT: Porsche facing dire times

    i don't think this is very good news for us.......if it is true.

    Re: REPORT: Porsche facing dire times

    The argument is that the majority of the extra production (not sure about doubling, Porsche used to make 100k cars a year, at least before the recession kicked in) will go to places like Russia and China.

    That said, another report here in the UK - Car Magazine - claims the Cayenne and Panamera will both be canned in 2017-2018 - sounds like a facelifted Panamera and the new curvy Cayenne and that will be it.

    Of course, VW already make the Cayenne - shipped from Bratislava to Leipzig 4 in a box-car for Porsche to install the engine and badge. Oh, and the sat-nav and the wheels. VW make the body shells (not sure in white or painted) for the Panamera and ships them to the same rail siding in Leipzig.



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