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    Re: Tesla

    Gladstone:
    Whoopsy:

    ..........

    In a Tesla, if the driver touches the brake pedal, all the energy is lost as it disconnect the regen side. It's all physical brake with the brake pedal on a Tesla. Two completely different circuit.

     

     

    Do you have a source for that ?  I thought the physical brake pedal just added to the existing regen braking.  Smiley

     

     

     

     

    Not in a Tesla. If they do that the brake feel would completely gone as there will be two sets of controls fighting each other when braking. To use one the other has to be disabled. 

    When you press on the throttle in a Tesla it goes, but when one modulate the throttle, like easing off but not completely off, the car already starts regenerating, it's like the car is dragging something heavy slowing it down. Maximum regeneration occurs when car is still moving but the throttle is completely off. How do you modulate the regeneration with only the brake pedal when the braking system is purely mechanical and unconnected to the regen system?

    For blended braking cars, there is a reservoir for storing brake fluid when pressed during the regeneration phase. Once that phase is exceeded, the 'excess' brake fluid will bleed back into the system to apply the friction brakes. That's how one can modulate blended braking with feel as it acts exactly like how a normal brake feels, you press a little it brakes a little via regen, you press harder and it brakes harder with stronger regen, you press really hard to stop quickly and the system engages the friction brakes on top of the regen and bring the car to a stop quickly. 

    It was discussed at length by lots of people when the first car from Tesla came out. Elon stressed at that time the brake pedal is completely unnecessary with regen braking but he has to put one it due to regulations or something like that.

    That's was the start of one-pedal driving. Which do make some sense for city driving like stop and go traffic and such, those won't be hard stops and the regen braking of a Tesla is enough to bring it to a stop every time. 

    For other manufacturers that offers one pedal driving option similar to Tesla, it's easy as they already have the blended braking circuit in place, it's just a matter of programming. Not so easy with Tesla as they will need to completely redesign their mechanical hydraulic braking system to accommodate a reservoir and fill and bleed function and also tune the operation to make it seamless. 

     

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Just watched several youtube videos watching the green bar for regen in model 3.

    brake pedal does not add more regen, but also does not interrupt the regen already taking place as soon as the accelerator is let off. The two systems are not in conflict, they are both slowing the car.


    Re: Tesla

    TesIa 2021 Q4 delivery strategy...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    054D91B0-DD75-45A1-9154-700AEE61F6DC.jpeg

    ...is that lower Q4 sales guidance? Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Thanks for all the explanation again Whoopsy. I did get it the first time I just don’t see why two different controls are better than one necessarily.   You don’t use one wheel to turn left and one to turn right.   What is natural for you may not be the same for me.  You may have played with slot cars as a child, they use the one control to stop and go. Nothing more natural.  If I see the police while I am blasting along lifting the throttle gets me most of the way back down from speed without even touching the brakes and blasting my brake lights.  Priceless

    You can’t ever convince me that no power is lost during blended braking. Period. Hence the name blended braking.  If the pads do any work at all energy is lost and not recovered?  Is that not correct?  Are we harnessing the heat from the pads somehow?  Anyway, no need for further explanation of blended braking.  I am clearly not that into brakes on an EV. 

    I am still amused by your shocking description of what happens when you lift off a Tesla accelerator.  Like you are dragging something heavy?  Lol. As though it takes effort to keep the foot pedaling that throttle or you someone’s can’t engage cruise control.  Some might argue it is safer to come to a complete stop if someone lifts off the throttle. They may be fallen asleep or worse.  I would not prefer a run-away car myself.   Seems the Tesla is either a dangerous car without brakes and self driving that plows into houses or one which drags its feet and is not drivable.  
    Im glad you enjoy the blended braking and the use of that stop pedal so much. I fail to see the point in trying to convert you or you converting me.  It is just a different way of looking at things and driving. 
    I wonder if one were to try to add massive brakes to the Tesla if having conventional brakes makes it an 

    btw - you may not know this but you can vary the regen or turn it off all the way if you don’t like the dragging feeling. I doubt even one percent set their Tesla this way. 


    Re: Tesla

    How is it that you still don't get for the initial brake pedal travel, on blended braking cars, the physical brakes aren't engaged, it's only using the motor regeneration to slow it down? And it's strong enough to bring a car to a stop, like in a Tesla with lift off regen? Where is the power lost there when it works exactly the same as in a Tesla?

    It's only when someone needed stronger braking when the friction brakes are engaged. 

    If one turns off the lift off regen in a Tesla, there is no more regen braking, and you are only using the friction brake to stop. But on a blended braking car the regen braking is always present, always on. 

    There lies the difference, if one wants regeneration, one has to enabled the dragging heavy stuff mode in a Tesla. For every other EV or hybrids, they have the option of choosing whether to have the drag heavy stuff feeling or coasting, and still retains the regen braking function. Of course all Tesla drivers keep the lift off regen function, or else they will need to use the brake pedal and forgo any regenerative function. That's bad for efficiency.

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Gladstone:

    Just watched several youtube videos watching the green bar for regen in model 3.

    brake pedal does not add more regen, but also does not interrupt the regen already taking place as soon as the accelerator is let off. The two systems are not in conflict, they are both slowing the car.

     

    They must have made some improvement since launch. Never paid much attention after anyways. You could always check that with Leawood's car to confirm Smiley


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    Re: Tesla

    Gladstone:

    Just watched several youtube videos watching the green bar for regen in model 3.

    brake pedal does not add more regen, but also does not interrupt the regen already taking place as soon as the accelerator is let off. The two systems are not in conflict, they are both slowing the car.

    And with Taycan you can have it both: regen when not pressing any pedal and blended braking when you are lightly pushing brake pedal. It is showing on the instrument cluster as green regen bar.


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Gladstone:

    Just watched several youtube videos watching the green bar for regen in model 3.

    brake pedal does not add more regen, but also does not interrupt the regen already taking place as soon as the accelerator is let off. The two systems are not in conflict, they are both slowing the car.

     

    They must have made some improvement since launch. Never paid much attention after anyways. You could always check that with Leawood's car to confirm Smiley

    He did. I sent him video of my car slowing with regen then adding brake and the regen is still working as well. Simple blended system. Btw the brakes are electric brembo brakes not hydraulic so no brake fluid to overheat.  
    Anyway, happy holidays. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    Gladstone:

    Just watched several youtube videos watching the green bar for regen in model 3.

    brake pedal does not add more regen, but also does not interrupt the regen already taking place as soon as the accelerator is let off. The two systems are not in conflict, they are both slowing the car.

     

    They must have made some improvement since launch. Never paid much attention after anyways. You could always check that with Leawood's car to confirm Smiley

    He did. I sent him video of my car slowing with regen then adding brake and the regen is still working as well. Simple blended system. Btw the brakes are electric brembo brakes not hydraulic so no brake fluid to overheat.  
    Anyway, happy holidays. 

     

    Smiley SmileySmileySmileySmileySmiley Another lie you picked up from the Tesla community? The brake pads on the callipers moved in onto the brake disc by itself via electricity? Like how they do rail guns? Smiley

    You know, you might be surprised to see brake lines containing brake fluid going into your callipers. If you open your hood, and take off the plastic cover, you might be even more surprised to see a brake build reservoir there too.

    Like I said, Elon put a conventional hydraulic braking system in his cars. He will even sell you Tesla branded brake fluid too. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Its fun

    Leawood, you have misunderstood smthg. Overall for the hybrids and evs there 2 systems, both of them are different in the way of control. But in both cases you have the brake through the increase of electric engine resistance (its what you call regen) and standard braking through hydraulics actuating the calipers

    First one - brake by wire. Simplier saying its braking pedal connected to the special control unit that, depending on the braking pressure, distribute the braking force between the increase of el engine resistance and standard hydraulics. In more common applications, the first stage of braking is regen then, after you pass the treshhold of regen hydraulic brakes start to assist. In case of strong brakings, the hydraulic system is primary, regen assist. This system is made not to distract you when you push the brake pedal. The power of regen and hydraulics is different, moreover, the more charged your car the weaker the regen (not to overload the battery with charge), so if there was no control unit your braking force would not be consistant in the same level of pressure you make on the brake pedal.

    Second one. Instead of using the braking controller, the usage of additional brake fluid reservoirs. Its a bit old school approach made before brake by wire. F.e. it is used in 918. Simplier - when you push the brakes on 918, the hydraulics and regen works simultaneously, however instead to actuate the callipers, the braking fluid is collected in additional reservoir to let the regen work. After the treshhold the fluid goes out of additional reservoir and actuate the calipers. Complicated system, very difficult to set up. But in times when there was no normal bbw controllers, there was no other way)))
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    sportcars-history.com

     


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    Gladstone:

    Just watched several youtube videos watching the green bar for regen in model 3.

    brake pedal does not add more regen, but also does not interrupt the regen already taking place as soon as the accelerator is let off. The two systems are not in conflict, they are both slowing the car.

     

    They must have made some improvement since launch. Never paid much attention after anyways. You could always check that with Leawood's car to confirm Smiley

    He did. I sent him video of my car slowing with regen then adding brake and the regen is still working as well. Simple blended system. Btw the brakes are electric brembo brakes not hydraulic so no brake fluid to overheat.  
    Anyway, happy holidays. 

     

    Smiley SmileySmileySmileySmileySmiley Another lie you picked up from the Tesla community? The brake pads on the callipers moved in onto the brake disc by itself via electricity? Like how they do rail guns? Smiley

    You know, you might be surprised to see brake lines containing brake fluid going into your callipers. If you open your hood, and take off the plastic cover, you might be even more surprised to see a brake build reservoir there too.

    Like I said, Elon put a conventional hydraulic braking system in his cars. He will even sell you Tesla branded brake fluid too. 

     

    No need to be so harsh. Not a lie from the Tesla community?  Why do you feel it is a requirement to be prickly? 
    So I was looking up details on my electric brakes form Brembo.   Clearly I did not think it through or look closely. It makes sense that even electric brakes need some fluid to actuate the brake pistons. Good work!  Thanks for pointing that out. I read electric brembo brakes and assumed too much.   
    Have an Amazing week you guys!


    Re: Tesla

    You think you were treated harshly?  You have a very established track record of responding with snide remarks when you believe anyone has a made a disparaging comment about your beloved Tesla.  There are a number of posters on RT that have significant knowledge about the topics surrounding Tesla. 


    Re: Tesla

    His Model 3 still doesn't have electric Brembo yet. It's still a conventional hydraulic system. Just like very other Tesla on the road atm. The rear parking brake however IS electrically actuated. He probably got confused there.

    Brembo did announced their electric braking system a while ago, and it would seems Teslas will be their primary customers for that down the road. Perhaps for the Roadster first. 

    But I am sure a OTA update will magically transform the hydraulic system to electric. OTA FTW!! smiley


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    Re: Tesla

    You’re being very cordial given his record on all things Tesla. 


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    You’re being very cordial given his record on all things Tesla. 

    Not certain what your goal here is? 


    Re: Tesla

    One can disagree on stuff yet be friendly. Those aren't mutually exclusive. 

    After all these years online together, I consider him a great friend. Misguided with some Tesla stuff, but still friendssmiley

     


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    Re: Tesla

    More Level 2 stupidity but this time with a Peugeot.  https://jalopnik.com/watch-an-incredibly-stupid-wreck-because-water-bottles-1848132786


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    One can disagree on stuff yet be friendly. Those aren't mutually exclusive. 

    After all these years online together, I consider him a great friend. Misguided with some Tesla stuff, but still friendssmiley

     

    Same here!  Those who know me understand I would do anything for a friend but pull punches.   Have a wonderful holiday season!

    Misguided Tesla - good one!
     


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    One can disagree on stuff yet be friendly. Those aren't mutually exclusive. 

    After all these years online together, I consider him a great friend. Misguided with some Tesla stuff, but still friendssmiley

     

    Smiley Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    Tesla Model Y Recalled For Suspension Knuckle That May Break

    The recall affects under 1,000 vehicles, but suspension links separating on the move is a serious safety issue.


    Re: Tesla

    Ex Tesla Engineers Claim Full-Self Driving Autopilot Video Was Manipulated And Edited Out Barrier Collision

    Two former members of the Autopilot team who spoke anonymously in fear of retribution told the newspaper that the car filmed in the original promo used a three-dimensional digital map of the route that had been planned ahead, a feature that is unavailable to drivers using the commercial version of the system.
     

    Even more alarmingly, at one point during filming, they claim that the car hit a roadside barrier on Tesla property while using Autopilot and had to be repaired, three people who worked on the video allege.





    Re: Tesla

    I can’t stand Colbert. 


    Re: Tesla

     

     

     

    Drastic solution in Finland Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    https://www.carscoops.com/2021/12/surprise-surprise-teslas-full-self-driving-beta-still-has-issues/

    The car coming in the other direction was lucky he wasn't taken out in a full head on collision...


    Re: Tesla

    Tesla Selling 2021 Model 3s With 2017 Batteries, Less Range

    These examples are not heavily discounted and Tesla says that because they have old batteries, their range could be 12 percent lower.

     

     

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    Tesla Removes Roadster Pricing, No Longer Takes Reservations


    Re: Tesla

    Very stupid and needless concept this self-driving.

    Instead of driving the car you sit and monitor the car and wait nervously to take over to prevent it from killing you and/or others. Supposedly "the machine" reduces the workload of the "human" but the whole experience must be more stressful than driving yourself.

    Besides, most people I know enjoy driving. Those who don't or cannot could hire a taxi or get on public transport.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Tesla

    how do people even get permits for this kind of stuff lol


    Re: Tesla

    Moser:

    how do people even get permits for this kind of stuff lol

    Maybe because the overall safety record is 10x better than other cars and human lives matter in the long run. Lol 


    Re: Tesla

    Rather than paying $22,000 to replace the battery, the Fin opts to blow up his model S. Start at 5:00 to see the fun.

    This is my Xmas gift to Carlos and Whoopsy. 


    Re: Tesla

    If you fell for it then I’m certain they will too - although Whoopsy is pretty sophisticated. Merry Christmas to those guys ho enjoy this type of stuff!  
    Might have had something to do with this guy just starting his YouTube channel and wanting views. Good job helping him.  I’m always for expanding YouTube in favor of traditional media.  I’ll let you guys find the videos debunking this one, I prefer fewer Tesla buyers  as I am eyeing one for the wife as well.

    Speaking of Christmas presents. I got my over the air Christmas update for my model3. All new UI, lots of new functionality plus a light show which thrilled my mom and everyone else at Christmas dinner. 


     
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