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    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Leawood911:

    Compare the 993 to the 992. How many extra full sized adults is that? A sedan full?  I agree it is all about driving dynamics and not just lap times and speed. I guess we should be happy that we can have our cake and eat it it too - better economy as well. Still wish some more resources would be allocated toward weight savings. 

    If Porsche made them lighter, they would stop capitalizing from editions like the 911 T, or 911 R, or the GT3 RS' etc. Smiley


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    The 991 is the easiest 911, so far,  to drive fast. Even the 997 is tiring and demanding at very high speeds.The added 10cm in wheelbase helps the 991 a lot as well as the extra width.

    Porsche wish to keep their customers against competition from very fast saloons and coupes and therefore the 911 must be easier to drive fast and more comfortable than in the 90s or the 00s.

    You cannot feel exhausted at 200+km/h in your 911 whereas the AMG super saloon driver breezes through with no sweat.

    The GT drivers and other race track devotees are a profitable niche for Porsche and are well catered for, but the majority of 911 customers wish to drive fast and be relaxed at the same time.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    watt:
    RC:

    Watt, make no mistake, the new Carrera S will be quite fast on the track, even if it is slightly longer (2cm I think, not sure I remember right) and heavier (35 kg so far...) than the old one.

    Of course, but it still looks like a PanemeraSmiley

    The Panamera is a Porsche as well, there needs to be some family resemblance... Smiley It doesn't look exactly like a Panamera in the inside, not even from the outside (wait until you see the car without any remaining camouflage) but of course it is a Porsche and they cannot give the 911 a completely different design language, this would be foolish.

    May I use the R8 as an analogy (sorry guys)? Many criticize that the R8 looks too much like an Audi. Well...of course it looks like one, it is an Audi. Smiley What would be the point to make it look like a Huracan? There is already one.

    Porsche lives off the Macan, the Cayenne and the Panamera (maybe less now), the 911 is their iconic sportscar and reminds buyers of other Porsche models of Porsche's tradition but this doesn't mean the 911 is a Porsche and the other models aren't.

    I am happy we can choose any Porsche we like. I kind of got bored of the 911 (as a car, not necessarily because of it's design) but I would get a 960 or maybe even some sort of GT Coupe anytime from Porsche. It is a good thing we can choose from different models.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Well, the easiest solution for distinguishing the two would be to make the Panamera bigger too indecision 


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3

     


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Gauss:

    Well, the easiest solution for distinguishing the two would be to make the Panamera bigger too indecision 


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3

     

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:
    SportCarGroup:
    Carlos from Spain:
    SportCarGroup:
    Carlos from Spain:
    reginos:

    What are 25kg or even 45kg extra for a road car?

    In most cases the body weight of the driver could deviate by this amount of kg. Or if say, you drive to the airport carrying your check-in suitcase would such a weight difference be discernible?

    That is not the problem, I added the 90L fuel tank in mine so when fully fueled up that is 23kg heavier, could not care less for street driving for the convenience of doing +800km on a a single gas tank in a 911, a 23Kg lighter 60L fule tank GTS is not going to pull 1 meter from me on a mountain road, nor a turbocharged version with more torque for that matter. So all that is just paper figures I agree, but the trend does matter, if the 992 is 35Kg heavier than the 991.2, then that is already 80Kg heavier from one gen to the other, imagine when you add the battery packs later on.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Silly question, why the weight of the car should bother someone, unless it impacts the performance figures? Personally I'm careless about the weight of the previous vs current model, if the latest model performance figures are better. 80Kg heavier it's like driving with an average male passenger, but you're still getting a better performance than the 80Kg lighter previous generation 991. Or I'm missing something? 

    It's not about the acceleration performance, that can be compensated by increasing the torque and HP, its about how it negatively affects driving dinamics, the feel, the braking, the agility, the cornering grip, etc that most important when we are talking about weight in a sporstcar vs a sedan.

    It's not a lineal directly proportional relationship because new technologies and advancements in tires, chasis, electronics, etc help to "hide" the weight better, but physics is physics. I'd trade the extra weight of the 992 for the equivalent perfornance compensating HP increase of that weight increase. It's starting to cross the line now, 991 was already borderline size and weight imo.

    Somehow I think even with an extra weight the new 992 will reach better result on track than 991, which means better driving dinamics, the feel, the braking etc.  So the question pops up again - what is that "weight buzz" is all about? 

    Better lap times on a perfect and flat track does not mean better driving feel and agility, a 991 Turbo S will can match a 991 GT3 lap times in many tracks, but the experience is completely different. I'm sure the 992 will be faster on track, but for a street car, a fraction of a second better lap time matters little compared to how it "feels" carving your favorite mountain road. That is where the fuzz is all about.

    We already lost the high reving great sounding NA engines, save for the GT3 so far (there is a reason the GT3 still keeps the NA), if we make it bigger and heavier its only going to make it worse as a sportscar, at least for people like me, who don't care about random spurts of acceleration on a highway straight or paper figures, but how the whole package drives on a mountain road.

    I get Your point Carlos, but for some reason you're driving 991 GTS, but not the lighter versions of the previous 911 such as 993 or 996. We must understand, that the technology has it's price. We've already forgot all the buzz about the electic steering, with 991 when it was released, if you remember...nobody is talking about it anymore. Was it that bad? I don't think so...My point is that the new 992 will bring you a better driving experience after all, even with the weight increase.  I drove almost all 911 generations in my life, and for me, each one has it's charm, but the latest model, always brought more exciting driving experience than the previous one.


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    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Yep, the last one was always the "best" one, true.

    Last "classic" 911 I sat in was a 964 last year or so...I don't really miss that car. 

    My first 911 was a 993, same thing...never missed it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    SportCarGroup:
    Carlos from Spain:
    SportCarGroup:
    Carlos from Spain:
    SportCarGroup:
    Carlos from Spain:
    reginos:

    What are 25kg or even 45kg extra for a road car?

    In most cases the body weight of the driver could deviate by this amount of kg. Or if say, you drive to the airport carrying your check-in suitcase would such a weight difference be discernible?

    That is not the problem, I added the 90L fuel tank in mine so when fully fueled up that is 23kg heavier, could not care less for street driving for the convenience of doing +800km on a a single gas tank in a 911, a 23Kg lighter 60L fule tank GTS is not going to pull 1 meter from me on a mountain road, nor a turbocharged version with more torque for that matter. So all that is just paper figures I agree, but the trend does matter, if the 992 is 35Kg heavier than the 991.2, then that is already 80Kg heavier from one gen to the other, imagine when you add the battery packs later on.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Silly question, why the weight of the car should bother someone, unless it impacts the performance figures? Personally I'm careless about the weight of the previous vs current model, if the latest model performance figures are better. 80Kg heavier it's like driving with an average male passenger, but you're still getting a better performance than the 80Kg lighter previous generation 991. Or I'm missing something? 

    It's not about the acceleration performance, that can be compensated by increasing the torque and HP, its about how it negatively affects driving dinamics, the feel, the braking, the agility, the cornering grip, etc that most important when we are talking about weight in a sporstcar vs a sedan.

    It's not a lineal directly proportional relationship because new technologies and advancements in tires, chasis, electronics, etc help to "hide" the weight better, but physics is physics. I'd trade the extra weight of the 992 for the equivalent perfornance compensating HP increase of that weight increase. It's starting to cross the line now, 991 was already borderline size and weight imo.

    Somehow I think even with an extra weight the new 992 will reach better result on track than 991, which means better driving dinamics, the feel, the braking etc.  So the question pops up again - what is that "weight buzz" is all about? 

    Better lap times on a perfect and flat track does not mean better driving feel and agility, a 991 Turbo S will can match a 991 GT3 lap times in many tracks, but the experience is completely different. I'm sure the 992 will be faster on track, but for a street car, a fraction of a second better lap time matters little compared to how it "feels" carving your favorite mountain road. That is where the fuzz is all about.

    We already lost the high reving great sounding NA engines, save for the GT3 so far (there is a reason the GT3 still keeps the NA), if we make it bigger and heavier its only going to make it worse as a sportscar, at least for people like me, who don't care about random spurts of acceleration on a highway straight or paper figures, but how the whole package drives on a mountain road.

    I get Your point Carlos, but for some reason you're driving 991 GTS, but not the lighter versions of the previous 911 such as 993 or 996. We must understand, that the technology has it's price. We've already forgot all the buzz about the electic steering, with 991 when it was released, if you remember...nobody is talking about it anymore. Was it that bad? I don't think so...My point is that the new 992 will bring you a better driving experience after all, even with the weight increase.  I drove almost all 911 generations in my life, and for me, each one has it's charm, but the latest model, always brought more exciting driving experience than the previous one.

    I put over 200,000km on my ex-997, that is why I'm driving a 991 GTS Smiley and the thing is that I would like to drive a 992 in the future, but right now if I loose the NA for a just downsized turbo then I would loose in the exchange, so I was hoping for hydrib tech in the 992 to compensate as for me the smaller turbo is not a substutite, but the weight gains dont look to good so far, and then I will loose on other aspects if it becomes bigger a heavier than what it already is.

    I always like the latest 911, I'm not a nostalgic, but the newest isn't always better in everything, I still prefer the steering of the 997 for example. And if modern regulations force changes in the 992 not intended to make it better as a sportscar but for other reasons the that is a problem that the previous 911 versions did not face, that is the difference now. Sportscars are under fire nowadays and Porsche faces a difficult situation with the 911, that sportsedan makers or low volume sportcar makers do not face as much. Interesting times ahead.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:
    SportCarGroup:
    Carlos from Spain:
    SportCarGroup:
    Carlos from Spain:
    SportCarGroup:
    Carlos from Spain:
    reginos:

    What are 25kg or even 45kg extra for a road car?

    In most cases the body weight of the driver could deviate by this amount of kg. Or if say, you drive to the airport carrying your check-in suitcase would such a weight difference be discernible?

    That is not the problem, I added the 90L fuel tank in mine so when fully fueled up that is 23kg heavier, could not care less for street driving for the convenience of doing +800km on a a single gas tank in a 911, a 23Kg lighter 60L fule tank GTS is not going to pull 1 meter from me on a mountain road, nor a turbocharged version with more torque for that matter. So all that is just paper figures I agree, but the trend does matter, if the 992 is 35Kg heavier than the 991.2, then that is already 80Kg heavier from one gen to the other, imagine when you add the battery packs later on.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Silly question, why the weight of the car should bother someone, unless it impacts the performance figures? Personally I'm careless about the weight of the previous vs current model, if the latest model performance figures are better. 80Kg heavier it's like driving with an average male passenger, but you're still getting a better performance than the 80Kg lighter previous generation 991. Or I'm missing something? 

    It's not about the acceleration performance, that can be compensated by increasing the torque and HP, its about how it negatively affects driving dinamics, the feel, the braking, the agility, the cornering grip, etc that most important when we are talking about weight in a sporstcar vs a sedan.

    It's not a lineal directly proportional relationship because new technologies and advancements in tires, chasis, electronics, etc help to "hide" the weight better, but physics is physics. I'd trade the extra weight of the 992 for the equivalent perfornance compensating HP increase of that weight increase. It's starting to cross the line now, 991 was already borderline size and weight imo.

    Somehow I think even with an extra weight the new 992 will reach better result on track than 991, which means better driving dinamics, the feel, the braking etc.  So the question pops up again - what is that "weight buzz" is all about? 

    Better lap times on a perfect and flat track does not mean better driving feel and agility, a 991 Turbo S will can match a 991 GT3 lap times in many tracks, but the experience is completely different. I'm sure the 992 will be faster on track, but for a street car, a fraction of a second better lap time matters little compared to how it "feels" carving your favorite mountain road. That is where the fuzz is all about.

    We already lost the high reving great sounding NA engines, save for the GT3 so far (there is a reason the GT3 still keeps the NA), if we make it bigger and heavier its only going to make it worse as a sportscar, at least for people like me, who don't care about random spurts of acceleration on a highway straight or paper figures, but how the whole package drives on a mountain road.

    I get Your point Carlos, but for some reason you're driving 991 GTS, but not the lighter versions of the previous 911 such as 993 or 996. We must understand, that the technology has it's price. We've already forgot all the buzz about the electic steering, with 991 when it was released, if you remember...nobody is talking about it anymore. Was it that bad? I don't think so...My point is that the new 992 will bring you a better driving experience after all, even with the weight increase.  I drove almost all 911 generations in my life, and for me, each one has it's charm, but the latest model, always brought more exciting driving experience than the previous one.

    I put over 200,000km on my ex-997, that is why I'm driving a 991 GTS Smiley and the thing is that I would like to drive a 992 in the future, but right now if I loose the NA for a just downsized turbo then I would loose in the exchange, so I was hoping for hydrib tech in the 992 to compensate as for me the smaller turbo is not a substutite, but the weight gains dont look to good so far, and then I will loose on other aspects if it becomes bigger a heavier than what it already is.

    I always like the latest 911, I'm not a nostalgic, but the newest isn't always better in everything, I still prefer the steering of the 997 for example. And if modern regulations force changes in the 992 not intended to make it better as a sportscar but for other reasons the that is a problem that the previous 911 versions did not face, that is the difference now. Sportscars are under fire nowadays and Porsche faces a difficult situation with the 911, that sportsedan makers or low volume sportcar makers do not face as much. Interesting times ahead.

    You can always go for a pre-owned 997 again if the weight is an issue smiley 


    --


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:
    Gnil:
    Carlos from Spain:
     

    It's not about the acceleration performance, that can be compensated by increasing the torque and HP, its about how it negatively affects driving dinamics, the feel, the braking, the agility, the cornering grip, etc that most important when we are talking about weight in a sporstcar vs a sedan.

    It's not a lineal directly proportional relationship because new technologies and advancements in tires, chasis, electronics, etc help to "hide" the weight better, but physics is physics. I'd trade the extra weight of the 992 for the equivalent perfornance compensating HP increase of that weight increase. It's starting to cross the line now, 991 was already borderline size and weight imo.

    Exactly  ! Smiley

    Anyone interested to find out about what light weight gives in therm of sensations  , must try the Alpine . 

    Smiley I haven't and wish I could try one, must be eye opening after getting used to heavier and heavier cars over the years, then again maybe I shouldn't try it for that reason, what the heart doesnt see the heart doesnt feel Smiley


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

    maybe better, yes...... otherwise you might end up wanting a Singer Smiley


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    SportCarGroup:
    watt:
    RC:

    Watt, make no mistake, the new Carrera S will be quite fast on the track, even if it is slightly longer (2cm I think, not sure I remember right) and heavier (35 kg so far...) than the old one.

    Of course, but it still looks like a PanemeraSmiley

    So what? Smiley

    They're hideous, and merging design with them is foolish, especially going into a market crash and recession-  the Chinese car market is rolling over as we type.  But you're  as free to admire bad design as Sun is to have other views.  RC, is likely right going to one look like Audi seems correct to Audi and VW execs.  Enjoy your PaneSmiley

     


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    watt:
    SportCarGroup:
    watt:
    RC:

    Watt, make no mistake, the new Carrera S will be quite fast on the track, even if it is slightly longer (2cm I think, not sure I remember right) and heavier (35 kg so far...) than the old one.

    Of course, but it still looks like a PanemeraSmiley

    So what? Smiley

    They're hideous, and merging design with them is foolish, especially going into a market crash and recession-  the Chinese car market is rolling over as we type.  But you're  as free to admire bad design as Sun is to have other views.  RC, is likely right going to one look like Audi seems correct to Audi and VW execs.  Enjoy your PaneSmiley

     

    I would say Panamera looks like the 992, but not the oppoosite. Besides, the new design of the Panamera looks awesome.IMHO Smiley


    --


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    watt:
    SportCarGroup:
    watt:
    RC:

    Watt, make no mistake, the new Carrera S will be quite fast on the track, even if it is slightly longer (2cm I think, not sure I remember right) and heavier (35 kg so far...) than the old one.

    Of course, but it still looks like a PanemeraSmiley

    So what? Smiley

    They're hideous, and merging design with them is foolish, especially going into a market crash and recession-  the Chinese car market is rolling over as we type.  But you're  as free to admire bad design as Sun is to have other views.  RC, is likely right going to one look like Audi seems correct to Audi and VW execs.  Enjoy your PaneSmiley

     

    Smiley

    Chinese car market is rolling over? Didn't have Porsche the best sales in China and the USA this year? Smiley

    Porsche isn't a US brand Smiley but anyway...the trade war will be over before it really started.

    Also, China will be a nice market for the Mission E and some other EV products from the VW Group.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    I'm very fractured on the new 992.  The latest news stories bring hope of a 911 with great dynamics, yet each passing generation loses something of the magic that made Porsche special years and years ago.  The new technology in the 992 sounds amazing but as we all sadly know technology has a tendency to muddle a pure tactile experience by its perfection.  I'm not perfect nor do I always all products around me to be perfect.  I know that this is an old problem that first emerged at the start of the industrial age manifesting itself as the Arts & Crafts movement and then morphing into the Bauhaus movement and finally into post-modernism.  That's great from a design and technology standpoint and as I write this post, an older early 1970s 911 in ivory has roared past my city patio.  That car still looks and sounds special with nothing artificial or forced about it.  

    The new 992 will be a tremendous drive, but for some of us, our long drives are two hours or less.  Couple this with the lower speeds found on American roads, a Chevrolet Spark, a surprisingly decent economy car, offers almost an identical driving experience.  It is only when one becomes a malcontent or goes to the track that the Porsche will shine.  


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    I drive around 20 km to work and back home every day. I always enjoyed my E63 S, 911 GTS, etc. tremendously during that short drive. Why should that be different with a 911?

    Sometimes I only have time to drive my R8 for an hour on weekends and I still enjoy every second with it.

    I do not want to drive in a car I do not enjoy at all driving. A Chevrolet Spark would definitely be such a car I wouldn't enjoy. I remember my Tesla S P100D experience. Very interesting in the beginning and in the end, I was happy to return the car and never thought of it again. Just not my thing.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    RC:

    I drive around 20 km to work and back home every day. I always enjoyed my E63 S, 911 GTS, etc. tremendously during that short drive. Why should that be different with a 911?

    Sometimes I only have time to drive my R8 for an hour on weekends and I still enjoy every second with it.

    I do not want to drive in a car I do not enjoy at all driving. A Chevrolet Spark would definitely be such a car I wouldn't enjoy. I remember my Tesla S P100D experience. Very interesting in the beginning and in the end, I was happy to return the car and never thought of it again. Just not my thing.

    Again, you have a different driving experience that what I encounter.  I seldom drive during the week and when I do it is typically urban with slow, slow speeds, potholes, and incompetent drivers.  Even when I do drive longer distances the speeds remain low as left lane hogs drive below the speed limit on most U.S. Interstates.  Surprisingly, this issue is more severe on roads with more than two lanes.  I did post several months ago that I received a warning ticket for 1 mile  per hour over the posted speed limit as my Audi stood out from the rest of the pedestrian vehicle traffic.  

    Returning to the Chevrolet Spark, it is a surprisingly capable car, incredibly slow, but still very capable.  I had one as a rental car when I needed more than two seats in Chicago.  Nothing else was available from the local Hertz outlet, so the Spark it was!  However, it did suffer from the typical General Motors finally lack of attention to details.  General Motors, basically, can make a great car; however, the company never spends that additional 10% of development to make the car shine.  

    Another topic to consider is that we here are a dying breed.  Even Bob Lutz spoke about this problem lately.  People no longer take pride in automobile ownership.  Lutz used the example of midsize crossovers which are nearly identical regardless of manufacturer.  He continued to state that the average consumer in the States, as well as the dealer network, is fixated on product cost per month and nothing else.  This, sadly, is what the major automakers are focused on as that is all the consumer is interested in, as part of ownership.    That dystopian view of dull commonality takes me back to Apple's famous 1984 Super Bowl advertisement for the Macintosh.  


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Leawood911:

    Compare the 993 to the 992.

    And my 911 weighs >500kg (1,100 pounds) less than a 993.  It makes an amazing difference. I owned both at same time and made 993 feel like a truck.


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Grant:
    Leawood911:

    Compare the 993 to the 992.

    And my 911 weighs >500kg (1,100 pounds) less than a 993.  It makes an amazing difference. I owned both at same time and made 993 feel like a truck.

    This is my point.  Weight even with technology still hampers performance and driving dynamics.  Look what has happened with the 992.  To counter the weight gain, Porsche engineers have made the car wider and have adopted wheel stagger, both in width and diameter.   Now the 992’s tires are so wide, hydroplaning has become a greater issue.   To address that problem, Porsche has developed a special wet mode.  First stage relies on special acoustic sensors in the front wheelwells to listen for wet pavement.   There is also a driver selectable wet mode with increased restrictions on the stability program.  

    The 992 gained weight because of regulations and consumer demand for new features.  This means that Porsche needs larger wheels which further increase weight.  The larger tires and wheels introduce a new host of issues requiring new wet mode hardware which further increases weight in an upward spiral.  


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Just came back from driving a 991TTS and having driven mainly RS models lately i was shocked how capable and refined the big turbo is - absolutely had a blast and loved the „silence“ too - less attention is a good thing these days 👍🏻


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    BjoernB:

    Just came back from driving a 991TTS and having driven mainly RS models lately i was shocked how capable and refined the big turbo is - absolutely had a blast and loved the „silence“ too - less attention is a good thing these days 👍🏻

    In some regions definitely yes... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    RC:
    watt:
    SportCarGroup:
    watt:
    RC:

    Watt, make no mistake, the new Carrera S will be quite fast on the track, even if it is slightly longer (2cm I think, not sure I remember right) and heavier (35 kg so far...) than the old one.

    Of course, but it still looks like a PanemeraSmiley

    So what? Smiley

    They're hideous, and merging design with them is foolish, especially going into a market crash and recession-  the Chinese car market is rolling over as we type.  But you're  as free to admire bad design as Sun is to have other views.  RC, is likely right going to one look like Audi seems correct to Audi and VW execs.  Enjoy your PaneSmiley

     

    Smiley

    Chinese car market is rolling over? Didn't have Porsche the best sales in China and the USA this year? Smiley

    Porsche isn't a US brand Smiley but anyway...the trade war will be over before it really started.

    Also, China will be a nice market for the Mission E and some other EV products from the VW Group.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

    RC "rolling over as we type" means now, not last year....  Smiley....  Jag shuts plant, etc... Time for Chinese gov to push a Porsche in every potSmiley

    Bloomberg

     

     

         

     

         
         
         
         
         

    Business

    World’s Largest Car Market Faces Historic Drop

    Bloomberg News

    October 11, 2018, 11:33 PM PDT Updated on October 12, 2018, 4:02 AM PDT

    •  

      Sales to Chinese dealerships fall for third month in September

    •  

      Trade war, economic woes hurting sales at GM, VW, Honda

    China Will Talk to U.S. After Midterms, Says CIMB's Song

    LISTEN TO ARTICLE

     

    3:28

    SHARE THIS ARTICLE

     

    China’s car market has been one of the most reliable engines of global growth for decades. Now that all might be coming to an end.

    Purchases of passenger vehicles by dealerships plunged for a third straight month, an industry group said Friday. With trade ties with the U.S. worsening by the day and car sales barely up for the year already, the industry is now facing the prospect of its first contraction since at least the 1990s.

    A slowdown in China -- where automakers poured in billions of dollars in the past 20 years to bulk up factories -- leaves the industry struggling to find growth anywhere on the planet. A trade war with the U.S. has already prompted luxury-car makers BMW AG and Daimler AG to warn about lower profits while Chinese consumers staying away from showrooms forced Jaguar Land Rover to shut a factory temporarily.

    The economic standoff between the U.S. and China escalated last month when President Donald Trump slapped a 10 percent duty on $200 billion of Chinese imports, and said the levy will jump to 25 percent in 2019. China said it would retaliate with levies on $60 billion worth of U.S. goods. As retailers pass on the duties to consumers and Chinese markets sell off, the tit-for-tat spat has raised concerns shoppers would rein in spending.

    Read More: Luxury Carmakers Are Taking a Hit as Demand in China Plummets

    Cutting Prices

    Passenger-car purchases by dealerships declined 12 percent to 2.06 million units in September, the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers said. That leaves the market up just 0.6 percent for the first nine months of the year, and the association said fourth-quarter comparisons from 2017 are challenging. Still, CAAM stuck to its prediction that the market will show growth for the full year.

    The slump may be the biggest auto manufacturers have ever experienced in China, the world’s largest car market, said Steve Man, a senior analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence in Hong Kong. Weaker brands may be hit disproportionately, and such companies will need to cut prices to drum up sales, Man said. Some carmakers may also be forced to shutter factories to reduce inventories and lower costs, he said.

    The slowdown comes just as global brands are making a bigger push into China, helped by the government opening up the economy. BMW on Thursday revealed a $4.1 billion deal to secure control of its Chinese joint venture, becoming first automaker to take advantage of China’s policy to let foreign companies own a majority holding of their local partnerships.

    The German luxury-car maker is also among Western brands still boosting manufacturing capacity in China and expand local production of models including electric cars. Tesla Inc. is pushing ahead with plans to set up production in China to gain a bigger slice of the world’s largest electric-vehicle market.

    General Motors Co., the largest U.S. carmaker, reported a 15 percent drop in China deliveries for the three months ended Sept. 30, its first quarterly report since the trade tensions with the U.S. began escalating in July. Volkswagen AG and Honda Motor Co. also reported declines in deliveries.

    Demand has also been hurt by the phasing out of a rebate on purchase tax that was in place through last year. Unexpected hurdles such as an increase in property prices are also weighing on demand, Xu Haidong, CAAM assistant secretary general, told reporters in Beijing.

    China’s car dealers are now pushing the government to come up with fresh measures to help spur demand, including changes to the way value-added tax is levied on used cars. CAAM has no current plans to urge policy makers to stimulate demand, Xu said.

    — With assistance by Ying Tian, and Yan Zhang

     

     


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    I don’t doubt that Chinese market may be facing volatility and contraction, but Porsche and other manufacturers are certainly following developments and have strategies to adjust as circumstances change.  And I don’t understand how adapting a rear light branding design across a model range Is a disastrous decision in such a situation.

     

     


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    You trust Bloomberg? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Even lessa camo.

    992-carrera-4s_04.jpg
    992-carrera-4s_05.jpg
    992-carrera-4s_02.jpg
    992-carrera-4s_03.jpg
    992-carrera-4s_08.jpg
    992-carrera-4s_01.jpg
    992-carrera-4s_09.jpg
    992-carrera-4s_06.jpg
    992-carrera-4s_07.jpg


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    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Seems to be shaping up very nicely indeed 


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Some more photos of the san francisco gig. SOme may be repeted but most are new!

    2020-Porsche-911-Prototype-992-Series-04.jpg
    2020-Porsche-911-Prototype-992-Series-05.jpg
    2020-Porsche-911-Prototype-992-Series-01.jpg
    2020-Porsche-911-Prototype-992-Series-36.jpg
    2020-Porsche-911-Prototype-992-Series-02.jpg
    a-bridge-over-a-body-of-water__741815_.jpg
    2020-Porsche-911-Prototype-992-Series-32.jpg
    2020-Porsche-911-Prototype-992-Series-35.jpg
    2020-Porsche-911-Prototype-992-Series-12.jpg
    2020-Porsche-911-Prototype-992-Series-17.jpg


    --

    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    The Los Angeles Auto Show starts on 30 November this year so we have several more weeks to wait until the 992 is unveiled.  One would expect the Porsche marketing machine to make the official unveil announcement in the first week of November.


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Funny, the photos from San Francisco were taken right next to my home and work.  Wish I could have seen it in person!  Looking good so far.


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    P1080846.JPG


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: 992 Thread Closed

    Awesome !!! Thanks!!!


    --

    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH


     
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