Crown

Board: Porsche - Cayenne Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: ML?

    I don't know about consumer reports or reviews but one thing is for sure: I drove two generations of the Lincoln Navigator, a SUV which is supposed to be a luxury SUV in the US. The overall quality impression is by far worse than the one on our first generation Mercedes M-class.

    Japanese cars? Ouch. They look so cheap inside and the fact that Toyota invented the name Lexus for the US market doesn't mean that Lexus is better than Toyota.
    In my opinion, this is a nice trick to sell japanese cars at a higher price tag but I think we could discuss this over and over again.

    Regarding the Cayenne Turbo: forget about US SUVs, none of them, including all Hummer versions, can't cope with the Cayenne from a technical and performance point of view.
    Japanese SUV? Yes, some of them have lots of space but again, the brakes, the engines...nothing even close to the Cayenne Turbo.
    BMW? Well, I know several people who owned or still own a X5 in various versions (Diesel, 4.4, 4.6is, 4.8is). Most of them are happy but all of them had problems with interior quality and especially electronics failures. Not to speak about the small rear luggage room.
    Mercedes? Well, the M-class has it's ups and lows. Some people have a very bad experience, others are happy. There seems to be a strong fluctuation in build quality, apparently Mercedes doesn't have full control over their US workers and suppliers like BMW does. Build quality is definetely much better on the X5.

    For me personally, there is no substitute for the Cayenne Turbo...yet. If Mercedes builds a very powerful ML60 AMG with 500 HP, a good quality, an attractive price tag and superb handling capabilities, they may get me again as customer. But only if Porsche doesn't learn from the first mistakes they made with the Cayenne (boring exterior design, weak brake on the Turbo, steering still could need improvement to make it more responsive, throttle hesitation, shifting response, for example).

    Right now, there is no truck to show the same straight line performance like a Porsche 993 C2 and almost the same top speed. And I can move my whole family, put a lot of luggage inside, drive through mountains regions covered with snow and freak the hell out of BMW M5 drivers who find themselves "locked up" at 250 kph on the left lane of the Autobahn.

    Re: ML?

    Well, I agree, relaibility and quality are not what Merc stands for these days, blame the third party manufacturers that supply the electronic systems. when a car has soem many different and complex electrical systems, its hard to make it work efficiently all the time. Nonetheless thats not the end, the infururiating and utter frustration and headaches only start once the boneheads at the dealership book you in for an appointment...

    That being said, if you are a fan of a brand, you;re willing to gives up its faults, how small orhuge they may be. I think in this respect RC and I are very similar. He loves Porshe down to the last bolt, I can' blame him, I feel the same way about Mercedes-Benz, so much so, he is willing to overlook its problems, same for me. The incompetence at the dealership can be all solved by a few choice words, decent execution and deliverance with horrifying ferocity....

    Wel, it was worth a try...lets see what the motoring journalists, JD power and Top Gear surveys make of the ML. I will reserve final judgement until then...

    Re: ML?

    Quote:
    ///AMG Mercedes said:
    Well, I agree, relaibility and quality are not what Merc stands for these days, blame the third party manufacturers that supply the electronic systems. when a car has soem many different and complex electrical systems, its hard to make it work efficiently all the time. Nonetheless thats not the end, the infururiating and utter frustration and headaches only start once the boneheads at the dealership book you in for an appointment...

    That being said, if you are a fan of a brand, you;re willing to gives up its faults, how small orhuge they may be. I think in this respect RC and I are very similar. He loves Porshe down to the last bolt, I can' blame him, I feel the same way about Mercedes-Benz, so much so, he is willing to overlook its problems, same for me. The incompetence at the dealership can be all solved by a few choice words, decent execution and deliverance with horrifying ferocity....

    Wel, it was worth a try...lets see what the motoring journalists, JD power and Top Gear surveys make of the ML. I will reserve final judgement until then...



    I don't think RC is overlooking the issues. He lists them well. I have mentioned before a number of issues we have had with our Cayenne Turbo, minor and major. This argument always comes to the same conclusion. Yes, the Cayenne Turbo has multiple issues some of them more unacceptable than others, but there is nothing else out there at the moment that comes remotely close in terms of performance with the ability to carry ones family around in safely, and with more luggage space than a saloon.

    Re: update from PCNA on Cayenne turbo

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    tires being at wear bar at 6k miles and 1qt/oil every 1k miles so far at 8k. porsche says 7500 is about right for tires on the turbo and that 1qt every 900 to 1k miles is also normal. these two issues (14 to 15 qts of oil and 2 full sets of 4 tires/year) combined with the incurable hesitation issue are just more than i'm willing to accept. if i can talk my wife into getting rid of this POS, i'm going to take the bath on it and get something built better by a manufacturer who owns and corrects it's phuck ups in the engineering dept. after 5 years with a bullet proof 993 and 996, i think i'm done giving my $ to porsche and will keep the CGT unless it turns out to be of the cayenne quality vs. the 993/996 variety (save for the obvious RMS issues they've failed to remedy in 8 or 9 model year boxsters and 911s).



    Big difference in customer treatment here, eh? One company denies a problem exists while the other takes action and notifies all customers of it's decision to do the right thing:

    http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21093

    Re: update from PCNA on Cayenne turbo

    I'd like to add my 2 cents worth as a previous owner of a Cayenne Turbo and now the proud owner of a 997S and a Lexus RX330.

    Although the C-TT was an amazing truck and I had a blast driving it, I now realize what, IMHO, was a waste of money for me. Yeah, the driving experience was pretty incredible...for an SUV. It's the "...for an SUV" part that made me realize that I would be more satisfied with a true sports car and a utilitarian SUV that was at least competent on the road. And, that the utilitarian SUV should not be quirky and filled with electrical gremlins. That the utilitarian vehicle should be bulletproof.

    First off, the 997S is the most amazing car I have ever had the pleasure of driving. I love the build quality, thus far, although it does have it's share of electrical gremlins. But, RC, don't bash Lexus until you have seen a dealership, experienced the dealership service and attitude, and driven one of their incredibly well built cars/trucks.

    Ben, although the RX330 will be too small for you, I heartily agree that you should look at the GX with KDSS or the LX...as long as you can be happy with less Porsche and more SUV like handling and incredible customer service and reliability.

    IMHO, the sheer joy and excitement of a 997S combined with the reliability and comfort of a Lexus RX330 is the perfect solution for me....

    Re: update from PCNA on Cayenne turbo

    Quote:
    alin2 said:
    But, RC, don't bash Lexus until you have seen a dealership, experienced the dealership service and attitude, and driven one of their incredibly well built cars/trucks.





    I can't comment on Lexus dealer service in the US because you're right, I didn't experience it. But I drove several Lexus limousines and I wasn't impressed at all. On the contrary, it reminded me of a Mercedes S class copy, can't help it. Lexus isn't very succesful in Europe, we still consider it to be a renamed Toyota.

    Regarding the Cayenne Turbo: it is NO substitute whatsoever for a sports car. NEVER. The throttle hesitation, according to Porsche a feature and not a flaw , is very annoying for such a powerful car and the weight, the excessive fuel consumption make it look very bad compared to real sports cars or even high power limousines. BUT: I needed a SUV with room for my family (2 kids, one wife, no dog ) AND a toy car for myself because I knew I wouldn't be able to drive a sports car all the time anymore. The E55 AMG was nice but not really what I looked for because the interior room was too small, same with luggage room. Not to speak about some little problems I had, especially with electronics. So far, the Cayenne Turbo has proven to be reliable and I really drive it hard. I'm afraid I can't say the same about Porsche service, my dealer is great but Porsche itself sucks regarding the Cayenne Turbo. I just received a "dear John" letter from them regarding the hesitation issue, the content in two short words: CASE CLOSED. Very very disappointing.

    Re: update from PCNA on Cayenne turbo

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    alin2 said:
    But, RC, don't bash Lexus until you have seen a dealership, experienced the dealership service and attitude, and driven one of their incredibly well built cars/trucks.





    I can't comment on Lexus dealer service in the US because you're right, I didn't experience it. But I drove several Lexus limousines and I wasn't impressed at all. On the contrary, it reminded me of a Mercedes S class copy, can't help it. Lexus isn't very succesful in Europe, we still consider it to be a renamed Toyota.

    Regarding the Cayenne Turbo: it is NO substitute whatsoever for a sports car. NEVER. The throttle hesitation, according to Porsche a feature and not a flaw , is very annoying for such a powerful car and the weight, the excessive fuel consumption make it look very bad compared to real sports cars or even high power limousines. BUT: I needed a SUV with room for my family (2 kids, one wife, no dog ) AND a toy car for myself because I knew I wouldn't be able to drive a sports car all the time anymore. The E55 AMG was nice but not really what I looked for because the interior room was too small, same with luggage room. Not to speak about some little problems I had, especially with electronics. So far, the Cayenne Turbo has proven to be reliable and I really drive it hard. I'm afraid I can't say the same about Porsche service, my dealer is great but Porsche itself sucks regarding the Cayenne Turbo. I just received a "dear John" letter from them regarding the hesitation issue, the content in two short words: CASE CLOSED. Very very disappointing.



    given the danger of projectiles in the rear cargo area, is it really safe to stack things any higher then the rear seats anyway? if it's not, is there really anymore storage space in the cargo area of the cayenne than there was in your E55? truth is, all these mini SUVs such as the Cayenne, ML, X5, GX and RX Lexus, etc really provide no additional storage over the sedan made by the same manufacturer in that range (with the exception of the Porsche only because they don't have a sedan - yet).

    the reason we bought ours was because at the factory track in leipzig at triple digits, the truck drifted around the corner instead of rolling (though the brakes were clearly warped and pulsing hard as a result of putting that kind of weight through those kinds of conditions). that and the ride height combined with the weight were our primarily reasons for chosing the SUV over a sedan (all three reasons primarily safety based). however, given the oil and tire usage combined with no incrimental storage benefit over a sedan, the eventual cayenne replacement will be a sedan if we still only have one kid and an LX Lexus if we have two. the luxury SUV should not be a PIA (adding oil monthly+ and bi-annual dealing with full tire replacement - not to mention the brake pad consumption you experienced that we have not yet). i mean really, what does the cayenne do better than an E55 or M5 besides generating maintenance and gobbling gas and tires?

    Re: update from PCNA on Cayenne turbo

    Quote:
    what does the cayenne do better than an E55 or M5 besides generating maintenance and gobbling gas and tires?




    For me the answer to that question is very clear. In fact, being able to traverse rugged terrain is really the rational behind the SUV. That quality seems to have been forgotten in many modern SUV's

    Re: update from PCNA on Cayenne turbo

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Quote:
    what does the cayenne do better than an E55 or M5 besides generating maintenance and gobbling gas and tires?




    For me the answer to that question is very clear. In fact, being able to traverse rugged terrain is really the rational behind the SUV. That quality seems to have been forgotten in many modern SUV's



    yeah, that is true. it's probably a very good snow vehicle. sometimes it's hard not to come from my own frame of reference (no snow and no 4 wheeling).

    Re: update from PCNA on Cayenne turbo

    Tire wear wise, you cant expect anywhere near normal tire life with super sticky hi speed rated tires on a 5000lb sports car, er truck.

    The throttle hesitation is just kooky and a pig headed stubborn minded design. They should come up with variety of driver selectable throttle response algorthyms for terrain and speed like Rover has.

    All in all it just proves that money cant garauntee anything these days.

    Re: update from PCNA on Cayenne turbo

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Quote:
    what does the cayenne do better than an E55 or M5 besides generating maintenance and gobbling gas and tires?





    For me the answer to that question is very clear. In fact, being able to traverse rugged terrain is really the rational behind the SUV. That quality seems to have been forgotten in many modern SUV's




    Yeah, no doubt. My RX330 is not an off-roader by any stretch of the imagination. But, it's a competant, reliable, car like SUV that handled the snow in Chicago with aplomb with it's M+S tires.

    The Lexus GX with KDSS won 4x4 of the year didn't it? Something to think about...

    Re: update from PCNA on Cayenne turbo

    Quote:
    The Lexus GX with KDSS won 4x4 of the year didn't it? Something to think about...



    Absolutely! The GX is an outstanding off-road vehicle, winning Four Wheeler Magazine's Four Wheeler of the Year in 2003 and 2004 (link to web page) . The 2004 comparison ranked the Touareg second and the Cayenne third. I don't have any direct experience with the GX but I have been off-road with a 4Runner, which the GX is based on, and it is very competent off the pavement.

    Of course, Four Wheeler Magazines priority is off-road performance, where the GX certainly excels. They do not give as much weight to on-road performance, where the Cayenne has virtually no peer. It is this breadth of capability that makes the Cayenne such an exceptional vehicle.

    Re: update from PCNA on Cayenne turbo

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Quote:
    The Lexus GX with KDSS won 4x4 of the year didn't it? Something to think about...



    Absolutely! The GX is an outstanding off-road vehicle, winning Four Wheeler Magazine's Four Wheeler of the Year in 2003 and 2004 (link to web page) . The 2004 comparison ranked the Touareg second and the Cayenne third. I don't have any direct experience with the GX but I have been off-road with a 4Runner, which the GX is based on, and it is very competent off the pavement.

    Of course, Four Wheeler Magazines priority is off-road performance, where the GX certainly excels. They do not give as much weight to on-road performance, where the Cayenne has virtually no peer. It is this breadth of capability that makes the Cayenne such an exceptional vehicle.



    Awww man...Now I'm really starting to miss my Cayenne Turbo!!! It was an amazing combination of on road performance and off road prowess.

    I guess I'll have to assuage my sense of loss and go drive my 997S!

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
    606755 2849
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 12/30/20 9:03 AM
    rhino
     
     
     
     
     
    375644 1279
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 6/8/21 7:15 PM
    JR-550
    89371 1087
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 5/12/21 3:30 PM
    WhoopsyM
    47030 344
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    36280 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
    34158 380
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 6/16/21 6:24 AM
    GnilM
    18709 389
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    5155 29
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 7/27/20 2:13 AM
    DJM48
    575312 5257
    Porsche Cayman GT4 5/4/21 4:46 PM
    Topspeed
    430877 3586
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 4/25/21 4:04 PM
    Topspeed
    368482 3916
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 5/27/21 6:14 PM
    Topspeed
    368350 3495
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
    330015 3252
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
    311540 2646
    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
    241146 4279
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/28/21 8:05 PM
    Topspeed
    232425 1542
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    162601 1379
    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
    138918 792
    Porsche 992 GT3 6/16/21 10:07 PM
    WhoopsyM
    135377 2590
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    111058 1225
    McLaren F1 2/25/21 11:33 AM
    RCA
    77832 207
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 5/19/21 5:19 PM
    Leawood911
    75644 1167
    AMG AMG GT R 11/19/20 11:47 PM
    Topspeed
    66100 819
    Lambo Aventador and SV 4/20/21 3:21 PM
    CGX car nut
    65219 683
    Porsche 991 Speedster 9/3/20 4:29 PM
    Topspeed
    61188 878
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    45642 596
    Others Bugatti Chiron 6/9/21 6:51 AM
    Jean
    37648 479
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    34693 615
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 5/30/21 9:51 PM
    waiting for PDK
    33918 522
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 3/21/21 5:01 PM
    Topspeed
    29340 385
    269 items found, displaying 1 to 30.